Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:36 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Richard Iddon)
2. 01:13 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Brian Davies)
3. 01:28 AM - Re: Europa colours (Raimo Toivio)
4. 01:43 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Peter Jeffers)
5. 01:45 AM - Re: First flight (steve v)
6. 02:07 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (David Watts)
7. 02:11 AM - Re: Colson Caster for a Tailwheel (karelvranken)
8. 02:17 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Nigel Graham)
9. 02:34 AM - tail plane balancing (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=)
10. 03:22 AM - Mod 73 results (nigel charles)
11. 03:24 AM - Re: Longer Pip Pins (Kingsley Hurst)
12. 03:54 AM - Re: Updated Oshkosh Lunch Bunch (bill&sue)
13. 04:47 AM - Re: Longer pip pins (R.C.Harrison)
14. 05:30 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Richard Iddon)
15. 06:14 AM - Re: tail plane balancing (Graham Singleton)
16. 07:23 AM - Was TP6 bonding (now Tailplane Mass Balance) - Important Correction (Roger Mills)
17. 08:03 AM - Re: Europa colours (Rob Housman)
18. 08:54 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Ron Jones)
19. 09:00 AM - Re: Europa colours (James)
20. 09:05 AM - Fw: Mod 73 results (Steve Pitt)
21. 09:40 AM - Re: Europa colours (JEFF ROBERTS)
22. 11:14 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Brian Davies)
23. 11:22 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (David Watts)
24. 12:29 PM - Re: Mod 73 Fray (Brian Davies)
25. 12:39 PM - Fw: Mod 73 results (Steve Pitt)
26. 01:06 PM - TP6 Bonding Survey (bryan allsop)
27. 01:13 PM - Re: Mod 73 results (m.clews)
28. 01:26 PM - Re: Mod 73 Fray (Mike Gamble)
29. 01:58 PM - Re: First flight (josok)
30. 02:03 PM - Re: Mod 73 results (Arthur Orchard)
31. 02:20 PM - Re: Mod 73 results (nigel charles)
32. 03:01 PM - Re: Mod 73 Fray (Brian Davies)
33. 03:09 PM - Re: TP6 Bonding Survey (Brian Davies)
34. 03:16 PM - Re: Mod 73 results (colin smallwood)
35. 03:25 PM - Re: TP6 Bonding Survey (Carl Pattinson)
36. 09:56 PM - Re: Updated Oshkosh Lunch Bunch (Michael Grass)
Message 1
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Name Country Airplane reg. Type Progress on
mod 73 Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any problems found
Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS Tri gear
Completed None found 2 in.
Nothing major
Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri gear
Completed None found 2"
Nothing major
Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono
Completed None found Original
Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM Mono
Not Done None Found Original
Very slight movement in
starboard TP12. Present on
installing (1998)- no worse.
Danny Shepherd UK G-CERI tri gear
completed none found 2"
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
Message 2
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_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Ward
Sent: 20 July 2007 01:52
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
CHRISTCHURCH 8052
Ph :64 03 3515166
Mob: 021 0640221
email:
HYPERLINK "mailto:ward.t@xtra.co.nz"ward.t@xtra.co.nz
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:jron.jones@tiscali.co.uk"Ron Jones
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Good idea, Richard!
Name Country Airplane reg. Type
Progress on mod 73 Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any problems
found
Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS
Completed None found 2 in.
Nothing major
Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri gear
Completed None found 2"
Nothing major
Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono
Completed None found Original
Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM Mono
Not Done None Found Original
Very slight movement in
starboard TP12. Present on
installing (1998)- no worse.
Brian Davies UK G-DDBD Tri
Done none 1.9 in
none
If anyone has any better idea, please feel free to add to the above, modify
or offer suggestions. Once most members have done the mod the results can be
emailed to the PFA although I guess that they will be monitoring this site.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
18/07/2007 15:30
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
15:30
15:30
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair 320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total deep
yellow Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night time
if you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike -
In re: dark paint
Don't even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the
heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the
epoxy-fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure
it will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from the
surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle don't have to worry
about getting the airframe too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a
little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of
all in an entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft
really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
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Message 4
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_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon
Sent: 20 July 2007 08:35
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Name Country Airplane reg. Type Progress on mod
73 Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any problems found
Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS Tri gear
Completed None found 2 in.
Nothing major
Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri gear
Completed None found 2"
Nothing major
Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono
Completed None found Original
Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM Mono
Not Done None Found Original
Very slight movement in
starboard TP12. Present on
installing (1998)- no worse.
Danny Shepherd UK G-CERI tri gear
completed none found 2"
Pete Jeffers UK G-BVIZ Tri
Gear completed None
original well within limits
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
15:30
15:30
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: First flight |
Well Done & Congratulations Jos,
seeing it lift for the first time is an exdrordinary feeling,
steve vestuti G-CEBV #573
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
3 more added to the list. These last 3 on the list have all been
completed by me over a 3 day period. 2 Half days and 1 day of about 2
hours.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Monowheel 1250 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Name Country Airplane reg. Type Progress
on mod 73 Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any problems found
Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS Tri gear
Completed None found 2
in. Nothing major
Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri
gear Completed None found
2" Nothing major
Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono
Completed None found Original
Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM
Mono Not Done None Found
Original Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on
installing (1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd UK G-CERI Tri gear
Completed None found 2"
Graham Drake UK G-CCOV Mono
Completed None Found 2"
Sarah Attubato UK G-BXDP Mono
Completed None Found 2"
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts UK G-BXDY Mono
Completed None found 2"
18/07/2007 15:30
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Colson Caster for a Tailwheel |
Paul and Nichol,
The problem is not the weight capacity but the bearings for high speeds.
Karel Vranken, #447 F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Euan Nichol" <Euan.Nichol@vu.edu.au>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Colson Caster for a Tailwheel
>
> Hi Paul,
> You could look at Fallshaws who seem to have been making castors for
> ever "down-under". They have a huge range 30-10,000kg !!.
> Contact Fallshaw Castors -- wwww.castorsandindustrial.com.au
> Best wishes
> Euan Nichol
> Victoria University, Australia
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Jeffers
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Iddon
Sent: 20 July 2007 08:35
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Name Country Airplane reg. Type Progress
on mod 73 Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any problems found
Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS Tri gear
Completed None found 2
in. Nothing major
Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri
gear Completed None found
2" Nothing major
Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono
Completed None found Original
Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM
Mono Not Done None Found
Original Very slight movement in
starboard TP12. Present on
installing (1998)- no worse.
Danny Shepherd UK G-CERI tri gear
completed none found 2"
Pete Jeffers UK G-BVIZ
Tri Gear completed None
original well within limits
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
Date: 18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
Message 9
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Subject: | tail plane balancing |
I agree that balancing the tail plane outside the aircraft is a lot better than
doing it in situ. Doing it that way, I discovered that my tail planes were significantly
overbalanced. I removed a total of 365 grams from the mass balance,
part of which was due to the heavier Mod 70 balance arm. It is always nice to
have an opportunity to reduce your airplane weight.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 493 hours
Carl
I could be corrected too but imho because the rest of the pitch control
system only moves fore and aft it won't influence balance, so I would
think balancing disconnected is OK. The rest of system will affect
natural resonant frequency but not the initial response due to G loading.
Tell me if I' wrong?
Graham
Carl Pattinson wrote:
> Roger,
>
> I am willing to stand corrected but my understanding is that the
> balancing should be done with the torque tube "in situ" and with the
> rest of the control system connected.
>
> The control system forward of the torque tube horn will have a bearing
> on the overall balance of the pitch installation. Disconnecting this
> IMHO will give a less than optimum setup.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
> 3. While the tailplanes and torque tube were out of the aircraft I
> decided to do a check of the mass balance and was surprised to find
> the assembly 78g too heavy at the weight end. I genuinely thought I
> had achieved a good re-balance in situ after mod 70 but the friction
> in the control system was enough to mask the imbalance. How many
> more Europas are like this and might it have contributed to the
> accident?
> Since correct mass balance is so critical and removal of the torque
> tube (albeit a pain) takes less than a day's work, it might be worth
> doing this at the same time as mod 73 - giving the advantage of
> peace of mind and also being able to use your own torque tube for a
> better layup than wrapping tape around plastic pipe as some have
> suggested?
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Roger Mills
Message 10
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Having done Mod 73 I have the following comments to offer:
1. As peel ply can suck resin from the cloth I find it is important
to make sure it is well wetted out when laying it in position. Otherwise
a partially dry lay is discovered after peeling off after cure.
2. As a result of the above I found that resin had puddle slightly
in the bottom of the lay up. This has added a small amount to the final
thickness which has ensured that I need longer pip pins.
3. By chance I have a length of aluminium tube which is a perfect
sliding fit to avoid having to do the lay up on the aircraft. Even a
patch of the thinnest packing tape almost gets scraped from the tube as
it is inserted. With a little grease it did finally make it through to
the lay up area. This tube was long enough to do both tailplanes
together and is available for loan.
Name Country Airplane reg. Type Progress on mod 73
Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any problems found
Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS Tri gear
Completed None found 2 in.
Nothing major
Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri gear
Completed None found 2"
Nothing major
Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono
Completed None found Original
Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM Mono
Not Done None Found Original Very
slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)- no
worse
Danny Shepherd UK G-CERI Tri gear
Completed None found 2"
Graham Drake UK G-CCOV Mono
Completed None Found 2"
Sarah Attubato UK G-BXDP Mono
Completed None Found 2"
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts UK G-BXDY Mono
Completed None found 2"
Nigel Charles UK G-MIME
Mono Completed None found
2" Nothing major.
Regards
Nigel Charles
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Longer Pip Pins |
Carl Pattinson wrote :-
> Is there any reason why one couldnt cut away a small amount of the bottom
> bid layups using the tip of a twist drill - just enough to allow the pip
> to open. I cant see this compromising the strength of the bottom layups.
Hello Carl,
I am sure someone else asked this very question a few days ago and AFAIK it
wasn't taken up by anybody. At the time, I couldn't see any reason myself
and was hoping someone would oblige. At this moment however, my mind must
be a bit clearer because I think I can now see quite a good reason.
I am not all that knowledgeable on Mod 73 but I know it requires the lay-up
of Bid onto the TP6 bush and the nearby rib. If the hole that is drilled
through the new lay-up is a neat fit around the Pip Pin shaft, any loads
taken by the TP6 bush will be shared by
1 the bond between the lay-ups and the TP 6 bush
2 The new joggle the lay-up forms over the end of the TP 6 bush and
3 by the lay-up through to the rib courtesy of the firm fit of the Pip Pin
in the new hole just drilled.
Should the hole be enlarged even slightly, (eg to allow expansion of the Pip
Pin balls), Item 3 above would be negated.
It seems to me that Mod 73 attempts to provide a two belts and braces
solution as opposed to just a belt and braces one.
I always think it is a pity with instructions when they say "don't do
something" without explaining the reason therefore. To less experienced
persons, the reason can sometimes not be very obvious so if it is explained,
not only is general knowledge gained but one will naturally have more
respect for the prohibition and be less likely to ignore it.
Hope this makes sense.
Regards
Kingsley in Oz.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Updated Oshkosh Lunch Bunch |
Add me!
Bill Sisley (New Zealand) Cell 12627700793 Monowheel 27th
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:23:14 +0000, kbcarpenter@comcast.net wrote:
> Add my name to the list: Ken Carpenter Cell 865 805 3520 Dates 22-28
> Mono
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "ALAN YERLY" <budyerly@msn.com>
>
> Name Cell Dates
> Type Europa
> Bud Yerly 813 244-8354 24-27
> Tri gear
> Rich Schultz 713-703-2156 21-27
> Tri gear
> Bob Borger 817-992-1117 21-27
> Monowheel
> Ira Rampil 631-335-9582 21-27
> Tri gear
> Linda Rampil 631-335-9583 21-27
> Tri gear
> Karl Heindl None 21-27
> Tri gear C-FIRS
> Brian Davies 44 792 1083 599 UK 25-28
> Trigear
> Rick Stockton 707-303-1717 23-27
> Tri gear
> Pete Zutrauen 613-850-5551 21-27
> Future Mono
> John Wigney 704-231-7865 23-28
> Mono XS - at 'Home Built Camping
> Michael Grass 586-822-0333 22-26
> Trigear Driving in
> Goff Moore 44 7808 296388 UK 22-29
> Tri-gear
> Paul McAllister 262-993-4483 21-28
> Mono
> Thomas Theron 920-230-8283
> Monowheel(South African Camp)
> Roelf Theron 920-230-8283
> Tri Gear(South African Camp)
>
> Regrets since posting:
> John Banhagel
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | RE: Longer pip pins |
Hi! Richard/all
I will not require any longer pip pins than the 1.75" ones I have as
original equipment.
IMHO there can be no valid reason to need longer ones so long as the new
pip pin hole/flox only diameter is slightly larger to accommodate the
expanding balls. (or am I missing something?
I just tried mine after hand drilling the hole through with a light
behind the upper surface hole.
Of course originally I thought "hell I really do need longer pins" THEN
ON CLOSER EXAMINATION I found that back in my distant memory the pins
are originally supplied with a "nuisance" secondary ring round the head
of the pin.....which most folks that I have seen have removed for our
applications because in the tight pip pin access hole it is a nuisance.
So when testing for the security of the pins after fitting only pull the
actual head or push the pin from the underside, so long as the balls are
expanded the pin is secure.
As an aside my pins are encompassed by a screw cap partly filled to a
predetermined depth which would act as secondary security anyway.
The bottom of the pip pin access hole is filled with a flox mix to a
depth nearly equivalent to the length of the pip pin head so in the
event of "tail plane attempting to migrate" the pip pin head would
restrain any lateral movement.
My bushes were totally secure with only hacksaw abrasion for the bonding
of the TP6 bushes. I'm sorry we are having to remove that original bond
with mod 73 since to cut into the bond even from only one side stops the
original bond on the opposite side of the torque tube being "clamped" as
one construction.
I will add my reg. to the list when final close out is complete and
inspected.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Phase one Mod 73 complete and inspected. 914 first
run up completed but with oil pressure sensor "hot wired" and one mag
kill switch not working and "suggested" factory assembly residual oil
being expelled though the muffler on backing off the throttle? )
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Holder [mailto:rholder@avnet.co.uk]
Sent: 19 July 2007 13:55
Subject: Longer pip pins
Hi all
I have ordered these pip pins. I have been promised that I
will get them next Thursday - we will see !
Message 14
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OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I have
copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works. Please
fill in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has been
missed off I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)-
no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: tail plane balancing |
Remi
I forgot the weight of the trim tab control arm does affect tailplane
balance, so balancing outside the fuselage is not quite so simple.
Graham
Rmi Guerner wrote:
>
> I agree that balancing the tail plane outside the aircraft is a lot
> better than doing it in situ. Doing it that way, I discovered that my
> tail planes were significantly overbalanced. I removed a total of 365
> grams from the mass balance, part of which was due to the heavier Mod 70
> balance arm. It is always nice to have an opportunity to reduce your
> airplane weight.
>
> Remi Guerner
>
> F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 493 hours
>
>
> Carl
> I could be corrected too but imho because the rest of the pitch control
> system only moves fore and aft it won't influence balance, so I would
> think balancing disconnected is OK. The rest of system will affect
> natural resonant frequency but not the initial response due to G loading.
> Tell me if I' wrong?
> Graham
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Was TP6 bonding (now Tailplane Mass Balance) - Important |
Correction
Apologies everyone - an oversight on my part!
I thought I'd update you before anyone repeats my mistake of checking the
tailplane balance outside the aircraft.
Even with the errors induced by the control system friction - it is indeed
best to balance the tailplane in the fuselage rather than outside. The
reason for this is not because of the elevator pushrod and joystick, which
don't contribute to the static balance, but because of the trim pushrod and
cross tube assembly - which do, to a surprising extent.
Once the trim drive pushrod weight was added to the tab pins at the back, 58
of the 78 grams removed from the mass balance had to be added back to regain
balance.
I will definitely be doing a final balance re-check once everything is
re-assembled on the fuselage!
Best regards
Roger Mills
Message 17
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Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying in
warmer
climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
technical
detail, and I used the word =93reflected=94 where I should have used the
technically correct term =93emitted.=94
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct that
the
sun=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a
=93black body=94
is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect emitter, which is to
say
it may not be reflecting solar heating but it surely emits it. Park on
a
black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that surface will be
re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if that aircraft is
any
color but white it will absorb too much energy. Any material absorbing
energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there will be some
re-radiation
from the dark aircraft structure but that is irrelevant because the
epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than Europa.
Here=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web site
http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
=93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=92s major airframe is constructed of
advanced
composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under vacuum
pressure,
these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among the lightest,
strongest,
stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass
systems
combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered the supreme
composite airframe materials of choice worldwide.=94
Note that the Lancair=92s composites are cured at a much higher
temperature
than the factory and we cure the Europa structural components. The
=93glass
transition temperature=94 is approximately the cure temperature so
softening
of the composite does not begin until approximately T sub g is reached.
For
a detailed explanation to T sub g see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our
purposes
we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening
temperature,
above which the structure loses a significant portion of its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
(including
yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual, Figure 1,
Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS Tri-Gear
Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair
320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total deep
yellow
Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night time
if
you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman <mailto:robh@hyperion-ef.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike '
In re: dark paint
Don=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the
heat
reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the epoxy-fiberglass
enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure it will be OK at
altitude but you still have to climb away from the surface. Folks
flying
closer to the Arctic Circle don=92t have to worry about getting the
airframe
too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a
little
taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of all in
an
entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft
really
painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
_____
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>
.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
so hope it works. Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the
forum. If anyone has been missed off I apologise but it is getting a
little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Message 19
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Anyone remember the factory demonstrator N914XS with the blue belly?
After
two or so years in the US sun that plane needed repairs to the front
fuselage as the engine weight was sagging the footwell area of the plane
while it was hot. Needless to say after it was reapaired it was
repainted
white. As Rob H said even yellow can get a bit warmer that white, and
I've
sprayed one yellow myself.
Paint em' white, or fly em' at night!
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying in
warmer
climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
technical
detail, and I used the word =93reflected=94 where I should have used the
technically correct term =93emitted.=94
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct that
the
sun=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a
=93black body=94
is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect emitter, which is to
say
it may not be reflecting solar heating but it surely emits it. Park on
a
black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that surface will be
re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if that aircraft is
any
color but white it will absorb too much energy. Any material absorbing
energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there will be some
re-radiation
from the dark aircraft structure but that is irrelevant because the
epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than Europa.
Here=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web site
http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
=93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=92s major airframe is constructed of
advanced
composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under vacuum
pressure,
these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among the lightest,
strongest,
stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass
systems
combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered the supreme
composite airframe materials of choice worldwide.=94
Note that the Lancair=92s composites are cured at a much higher
temperature
than the factory and we cure the Europa structural components. The
=93glass
transition temperature=94 is approximately the cure temperature so
softening
of the composite does not begin until approximately T sub g is reached.
For
a detailed explanation to T sub g see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our
purposes
we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening
temperature,
above which the structure loses a significant portion of its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
(including
yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual, Figure 1,
Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS Tri-Gear
Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair
320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total deep
yellow
Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night time
if
you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob <mailto:robh@hyperion-ef.com> Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike '
In re: dark paint
Don=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the
heat
reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the epoxy-fiberglass
enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure it will be OK at
altitude but you still have to climb away from the surface. Folks
flying
closer to the Arctic Circle don=92t have to worry about getting the
airframe
too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a
little
taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of all in
an
entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft
really
painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
_____
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>
.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 20
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|
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I have
copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works. Please
fill in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has been
missed off I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
This is very correct Jim. I have light tan or gold accents on N128LJ.
It is a metallic light gold so I figured it to be a very acceptable
reflective / emitted color. On a sunny day the difference to the touch
is the difference between very warm and neutral to the touch. Even in
the winter months on a sunny day reach out and touch a black car then a
white and you'll know the color to paint your plane. Keep it white and
keep it strong.
Regards,
Jeff R.
On Jul 20, 2007, at 10:55 AM, James wrote:
> Anyone remember the factory demonstrator N914XS with the blue belly?
> After two or so years in the US sun that plane needed repairs to the
> front fuselage as the engine weightwas sagging the footwell area of
> the plane while it was hot. Needless to say after it was reapairedit
> was repainted white. As Rob H said even yellow can get a bit warmer
> that white, and I've sprayed one yellow myself.
> Paint em' white, or fly em' at night!
>
> Jim T.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>> Housman
>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:02 AM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
>>
>> Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying in
>> warmer climes.
>>
>> In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
>> technical detail, and I used the word reflected where I should have
>> used the technically correct term emitted.
>>
>> First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct that
>> the suns energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a
>> black body is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect
>> emitter, which is to say it may not be reflecting solar heating but
>> it surely emits it. Park on a black surface and the solar energy
>> absorbed by that surface will be re-radiated to the underside of the
>> aircraft, and if that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb
>> too much energy. Any material absorbing energy will increase in
>> temperature. Sure, there will be some re-radiation from the dark
>> aircraft structure but that is irrelevant because the
>> epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
>>
>> Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than
>> Europa. Heres how Lancair describes their composites on their web
>> site http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
>>
>> Like every Lancair, the Legacys major airframe is constructed of
>> advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under
>> vacuum pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among
>> the lightest, strongest, stiffest materials known.
>>
>> The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass
>> systems combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered
>> the supreme composite airframe materials of choice worldwide.
>>
>> Note that the Lancairs composites are cured at a much higher
>> temperature than the factory and we cure the Europa structural
>> components. The glass transition temperature is approximately the
>> cure temperature so softening of the composite does not begin until
>> approximately T sub g is reached. For a detailed explanation to T
>> sub g see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature
>> For our purposes we can consider the glass transition temperature the
>> softening temperature, above which the structure loses a significant
>> portion of its strength.
>>
>> Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
>> (including yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual,
>> Figure 1, Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa
>> XS Tri-Gear Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Rob Housman
>> Irvine, California
>> Europa XS Tri-Gear
>> S/N A070
>> Airframe complete
>>
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
>> Toivio
>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
>>
>> Rob,
>>
>> I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
>> Europas undersides any colour but white. I still well
>> remember Manuals words: all the Europas must be white.
>>
>> I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
>> reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
>> it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
>> energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
>> cool because they are reflecting out much more.
>>
>> So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
>> surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa
>> floats!).
>>
>> In Sweden therehas been 10 years awonderfulfull colour mid red
>> Lancair 320
>> and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!).And like
>> we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a totaldeep
>> yellow Europa.
>>
>> I think - with other colour as white - it is better to beeven more
>> careful.
>> Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
>> That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
>>
>> "Keep your full matt black Europain the hangar and fly only night
>> time if you wanna be absolutely sure"
>>
>> Raimo
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Rob Housman
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
>>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> In re: dark paint
>>>
>>> Dont even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the
>>> heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the
>>> epoxy-fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure.
>>> Sure it will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from
>>> the surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle dont have to
>>> worry about getting the airframe too hot.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Rob Housman
>>> Irvine, California
>>> Europa XS Tri-Gear
>>> S/N A070
>>> Airframe complete
>>>
>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> DuaneFamly@aol.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
>>>
>>> Raimo,
>>>
>>> Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a
>>> little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list
>>> of all in an entire country.
>>>
>>> Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft
>>> really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Duane A207A
>>> Redding, California
>>> XS Conventional Gear
>>> Jabiru 3300
>>> Sensenich R64Z N
>>> Ground Adjustable Prop
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://
>>> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
>>> forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://
>> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
>> forums.matronics.com
>>
>
>
Message 22
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|
Hmm..
Something has got scambled in the move! My aircraft is the only one with
1.9 in pip pins but that info seems to have moved to Graham Drake. It
probably does not matter too much because the important info at the moment
(early days) is that no TP6 bushes have disbonded.
Brian Davies
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Pitt
Sent: 20 July 2007 17:04
Subject: Fw: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:riddon@sent.com"Richard Iddon
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I have
copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works. Please fill
in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has been missed off
I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)- no
worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20
mixed
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
18:10
18:10
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
Filled in 3 aircraft
Dave Watts
G-BXDY / G-CCOV / G-BWDP
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Jones
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
so hope it works. Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the
forum. If anyone has been missed off I apologise but it is getting a
little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the
typical landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with
failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Message 24
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Steve,
The PFA were made aware of the many builders that have incorporated this
change and they determined that this arrangement did not meet the
requirement to provide a secondary retention for TP6. In fact, this is what
led to the grounding of many UK Europas.
Personnally, I think the very quick issue of Mod 73 was as a result of the
PFA becoming aware of so many non standard pip pin recesses. I think they
were a bit shocked because the build manual is quite clear in saying that
changes to the recess requires PFA mod approval (in the UK). Mod 73 may not
be elegant but it does create a known build standard across the fleet and
removes the need to tear out the many non standard arrangements (for UK
owners).
In case you think I am sounding rather "holier than thou"" over this - I
was also grounded because of non standard pip pin recesses.
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Sent: 21 July 2007 06:13
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 73 Fray
I have been keeping out of the fray as I did not want to add to the 30 or so
E mails every night. This doesn't apply to the European types as they must
pay homage to the PFA. I am surprised to note that no one has mentioned a
modification that was detailed in what I believe was sent in to the Europa
Newsletter when it was being published years ago. I had done this to my
tail planes and it appears to be pretty robust and not dependent on the TP6
debonding to keep the integrity of mating of the drive pins at the tail
plane root. The deviation involved making a receptacle in the top of the
tailplane out of an internally threaded PVC pipe stub. Mine has about an
inch and a half inside diameter. This is positioned so that the pip pin is
almost touching the inboard periphery of the ID. Debonding of TP6 would
result in the pin acting in shear against the inside of the receptacle,
holding the tailplane in place. I turned the OD of the unit a little over
2" before I bonded down into the meaty thickness of the upper tailplane. A
plug was turned to thread into the cavity top so this holds the pip pin in
weather the balls are sprung or not. I don't have alot of hours on the
aircraft yet for a history however it has been rigged and derigged at least
75~100 times. I have had the TP5's come loose and have done work on them.
These are exposed to greater stress as when you put the planes on and they
are not exactly level you invariably have some levering action going on
until you get things started and pushed in.
Just My 2 cents
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
N40SH
> [Original Message]
> From: josok <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 7/14/2007 11:01:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Tailplane - Mod 73
>
>
> Hi Richsrd,
>
>
http://www.europaclub.org.uk/mods/improved_tp5_and_tp6_sleeve_retention.shtm
l
>
> Europa club pages,
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
15:30
15:30
Message 25
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----- Original Message -----
From: David Watts
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Filled in 3 aircraft
Dave Watts
G-BXDY / G-CCOV / G-BWDP
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Jones
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
so hope it works. Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the
forum. If anyone has been missed off I apologise but it is getting a
little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the
typical landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with
failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Subject: | TP6 Bonding Survey |
Whilst I can see the attractions of carrying out Richards suggestion for a
live listing of mod 73 findings, I feel that it will fall a long way short
of what I had in mind. In the long term there are three problems with it. 1
. Time scale. It could take a while for some people to complete the mod. In
that time most will loose the motivation to participate inthe survey. 2. C
onfidentiality. Many people may not wish to have details of their aircrafts
's shortcomigs on public display. In which case any bond failures are less
likely to be reported. 3. Completeness. Since we would have no way of knowi
ng how complete the feedback is, we would never know when the survey has an
y value. It would be nice to have 100% response. I feel that any survey sho
uld be authorised by our committee. The committee has a full list of Euopas
, and their owners. It will be easy to establish when a response is missing
. Members can respond in confidence knowing that aircraft details will not
be shown with the results. Sorry Mike, it sounds like a job for the Safety
Officer.It should be remembered that many aircraft will not be modified by
their owners, the info may have to come from the inspectors, or the people
employed to carry out the mod., via the owner.Perhaps responses should be l
isted against age, model of Europa (are Monos less vulnerable, or Classics,
or Trikes). OK, it sounds rather ponderous now. Sorry about that. Regrds t
o all. Bryan Allsop G BYSA
_________________________________________________________________
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one pla
ce! Find it!
http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
Just finished ours G-OMIK
Mike
so hope it works. Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to
the forum. If anyone has been missed off I apologise but it is getting a
little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the
typical landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with
failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been
built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
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Brian,
Am I correct in thinking then that a modified pip pin cavity on the top
surface can remain as is, complete with plastic fitting with screw top,
whilst the new one is constructed as per mod 73 in the under surface?
Mike Gamble
XS 440 mono
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
Mod 73 may not
> be elegant but it does create a known build standard across the fleet and
> removes the need to tear out the many non standard arrangements (for UK
> owners).
>
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Subject: | Re: First flight |
Thanks to all for the very good wishes. It feels very good to see there are so
many friends out there. Today was the ruff day. Ivan pulled a few stunts, pulled
harder on the plane then i thought would be possible, and since everything
is still in place, i am convinced that the bird will stay in one piece whatever
load you put on it. There is a nice buffet before every possible stall. To stall
this bird unnoticed is impossible. Altogether, a good day, very relaxing
to know that the bird is as safe as can be. Now still work to be done to be a
safe pilot.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
Arthur Orchard uk G-JOST Tri Gear 17.5 hrs Tar/Mac
completed none found original nothing found
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Pitt
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:03 PM
Subject: Fw: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I
have copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works.
Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has
been missed off I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the
typical landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with
failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of m.clews
Sent: 20 July 2007 21:13
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Just finished ours G-OMIK
Mike
so hope it works. Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the
forum. If anyone has been missed off I apologise but it is getting a
little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)-
no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
200
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
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Mike,
To quote from Francis Donaldson letter of 12 July,
" Installing Europa mod 73 removes the requirement for the existing pip-pin
recesses to comply with the dimensional criteria specified in PFA
247/FSB-006."
I have interpreted that to mean leave things alone on the top surface.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: 20 July 2007 21:23
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 Fray
--> <mp.gamble@tiscali.co.uk>
Brian,
Am I correct in thinking then that a modified pip pin cavity on the top
surface can remain as is, complete with plastic fitting with screw top,
whilst the new one is constructed as per mod 73 in the under surface?
Mike Gamble
XS 440 mono
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk> Mod 73 may not
> be elegant but it does create a known build standard across the fleet
> and removes the need to tear out the many non standard arrangements
> (for UK owners).
>
18:10
18:10
Message 33
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|
Subject: | TP6 Bonding Survey |
Hi Bryan,
I will leave the safety officer to respond fully , but please be aware that
we have about 400 members in the Europa Club worldwide and approximately
1000 kits sold, so we have no way of getting the complete picture. Also.
not every owner follows this listing. I do have some information on kits
sold to non members but it is very out of date and could not be trusted to
give an accurate picture of current ownership or build state.
Brian Davies. Europa Club membership sec.
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan allsop
Sent: 20 July 2007 21:05
Subject: Europa-List: TP6 Bonding Survey
Whilst I can see the attractions of carrying out Richards suggestion for a
live listing of mod 73 findings, I feel that it will fall a long way short
of what I had in mind. In the long term there are three problems with it.
1. Time scale. It could take a while for some people to complete the mod. In
that time most will loose the motivation to participate inthe survey.
2. Confidentiality. Many people may not wish to have details of their
aircrafts's shortcomigs on public display. In which case any bond failures
are less likely to be reported.
3. Completeness. Since we would have no way of knowing how complete the
feedback is, we would never know when the survey has any value. It would be
nice to have 100% response.
I feel that any survey should be authorised by our committee. The committee
has a full list of Euopas, and their owners. It will be easy to establish
when a response is missing. Members can respond in confidence knowing that
aircraft details will not be shown with the results. Sorry Mike, it sounds
like a job for the Safety Officer.
It should be remembered that many aircraft will not be modified by their
owners, the info may have to come from the inspectors, or the people
employed to carry out the mod., via the owner.
Perhaps responses should be listed against age, model of Europa (are Monos
less vulnerable, or Classics, or Trikes).
OK, it sounds rather ponderous now. Sorry about that.
Regrds to all.
Bryan Allsop G BYSA
_____
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one
place! HYPERLINK "http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01"Find it!
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
18:10
18:10
Message 34
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I
have copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works.
Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has
been missed off I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the
typical landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with
failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
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19/07/2007 18:10
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: TP6 Bonding Survey |
I dont want to knock anybodys worthy efforts in compiling a list of Mod
73'ers but I agree whole heartedly that this job would be better handled
by the Europa club committee.
My pesonal view (which I have stated before) is that inspectors should
be required report irregularities/ problems as a matter of routine to
either the PFA or the aircraft manfacturer so that results can be
collated and potential accidents pre-empted. Unfortunately this isnt
going to happen.
I agree that confidentiality is a big issue and those of us who find
irregularities may choose not add their details to the list. This will
create the impression that everything in the garden is rosy when it may
in fact not be.
Another complication is that some of us (me included) may choose to fly
off the 10 hours allowed before undertaking the work so it may be some
time before a complete list is compiled.
Finally many Europa owners are not membersof this forum so will be
excluded from the survey.
The only way to produce a meaningful survey would be for the factory to
require all Europa owners to participate in the survey which would be
collated by either themselves or the PFA. The advantage of channeling
this exercise through the Europa club (assuming they would accept the
task) is that individual annonymity could be guaranteed and only the
figures need be reported back to the authorities.
I am totally in favour with your proposal Bryan but I will be happy to
add my details to the current list if the EC arent able step into the
breach.
----- Original Message -----
From: bryan allsop
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: Europa-List: TP6 Bonding Survey
Whilst I can see the attractions of carrying out Richards suggestion
for a live listing of mod 73 findings, I feel that it will fall a long
way short of what I had in mind. In the long term there are three
problems with it.
1. Time scale. It could take a while for some people to complete the
mod. In that time most will loose the motivation to participate inthe
survey.
2. Confidentiality. Many people may not wish to have details of their
aircrafts's shortcomigs on public display. In which case any bond
failures are less likely to be reported.
3. Completeness. Since we would have no way of knowing how complete
the feedback is, we would never know when the survey has any value. It
would be nice to have 100% response.
I feel that any survey should be authorised by our committee. The
committee has a full list of Euopas, and their owners. It will be easy
to establish when a response is missing. Members can respond in
confidence knowing that aircraft details will not be shown with the
results. Sorry Mike, it sounds like a job for the Safety Officer.
It should be remembered that many aircraft will not be modified by
their owners, the info may have to come from the inspectors, or the
people employed to carry out the mod., via the owner.
Perhaps responses should be listed against age, model of Europa (are
Monos less vulnerable, or Classics, or Trikes).
OK, it sounds rather ponderous now. Sorry about that.
Regrds to all.
Bryan Allsop G BYSA
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Message 36
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Subject: | Re: Updated Oshkosh Lunch Bunch |
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN YERLY
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Updated Oshkosh Lunch Bunch
Name Cell Dates
Type Europa
Bud Yerly 813 244-8354 24-27
Tri gear
Rich Schultz 713-703-2156 21-27
Tri gear
Bob Borger 817-992-1117 21-27
Monowheel
Ira Rampil 631-335-9582 21-27
Tri gear
Linda Rampil 631-335-9583 21-27
Tri gear
Karl Heindl None 21-27
Tri gear C-FIRS
Brian Davies 44 792 1083 599 UK 25-28
Trigear
Rick Stockton 707-303-1717 23-27
Tri gear
Pete Zutrauen 613-850-5551 21-27
Future Mono
John Wigney 704-231-7865 23-28
Mono XS - at 'Home Built Camping
Michael Grass 586-822-0333 22-26
Trigear Driving in
Goff Moore 44 7808 296388 UK 22-29
Tri-gear
Paul McAllister 262-993-4483 21-28
Mono
Thomas Theron 920-230-8283
Monowheel(South African Camp)
Roelf Theron 920-230-8283
Tri Gear(South African Camp)
Ken Carpenter 865 805 3520 22-28
Mono
Capt. Myron Haluschak None 23-29
Mono XS, building
Bill Sisley (New Zealand) 12627700793 27
Monowheel
Regrets since posting:
John Banhagel
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
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