Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Re: TP6 Bonding Survey (Alan Burrows)
2. 12:22 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (A B Milne)
3. 01:03 AM - Mod 73 results (Richard Iddon)
4. 01:08 AM - Tail plane balancing (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=)
5. 01:22 AM - Longer pip pins (Richard Holder)
6. 01:45 AM - Re: Longer pip pins (Jim Naylor)
7. 02:00 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Peter Jeffers)
8. 02:36 AM - test (Remi Guerner)
9. 12:23 PM - Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter locking (Europa (Alfred Buess))
10. 02:39 PM - Re: Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter locking (Paul Boulet)
Message 1
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Subject: | TP6 Bonding Survey |
Hi Richard
It=92s an excellent start and gives me confidence also keep it up.
Cheers
Alan
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Iddon
Sent: 21 July 2007 07:56
Subject: RE: Europa-List: TP6 Bonding Survey
OK I know it is not going to be complete and maybe those who do have
problems may not want it known. It is a start however and it already
gives
me a little more confidence knowing that all those who have responded so
far
have had no problems with disbonding etc.
As I said, if anyone has a better idea or someone from the EC wants to
take
it on, please do so.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Pattinson
Sent: 20 July 2007 23:23
Subject: Re: Europa-List: TP6 Bonding Survey
I dont want to knock anybodys worthy efforts in compiling a list of Mod
73'ers but I agree whole heartedly that this job would be better handled
by
the Europa club committee.
My pesonal view (which I have stated before) is that inspectors should
be
required report irregularities/ problems as a matter of routine to
either
the PFA or the aircraft manfacturer so that results can be collated and
potential accidents pre-empted. Unfortunately this isnt going to happen.
I agree that confidentiality is a big issue and those of us who find
irregularities may choose not add their details to the list. This will
create the impression that everything in the garden is rosy when it may
in
fact not be.
Another complication is that some of us (me included) may choose to fly
off
the 10 hours allowed before undertaking the work so it may be some time
before a complete list is compiled.
Finally many Europa owners are not membersof this forum so will be
excluded
from the survey.
The only way to produce a meaningful survey would be for the factory to
require all Europa owners to participate in the survey which would be
collated by either themselves or the PFA. The advantage of channeling
this
exercise through the Europa club (assuming they would accept the task)
is
that individual annonymity could be guaranteed and only the figures need
be
reported back to the authorities.
I am totally in favour with your proposal Bryan but I will be happy to
add
my details to the current list if the EC arent able step into the
breach.
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
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igator?Europa-List
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19/07/2007
18:10
19/07/2007
18:10
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
Add:
Alasdair Milne UK G-CBYN Completed None 1.75 (not changed) None
Quoting Richard Iddon <riddon@sent.com>:
> There has been a suggestion that 'someone' should collate the findings
> and results from doing mod 73.
>
> I have also noted the way that the visitors to Oshkosh have added their
> names to a round robin list. Maybe we could do something similar on the
> forum for the mod.
>
> As an example or to make a start
>
> Name Country Airplane reg.
> Progress on mod 73 Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any
> problems found
> Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS
> Completed None found 2 in.
> Nothing major
>
>
> If anyone has any better idea, please feel free to add to the above,
> modify or offer suggestions. Once most members have done the mod the
> results can be emailed to the PFA although I guess that they will be
> monitoring this site.
>
> Richard Iddon G-RIXS
>
> 18/07/2007 15:30
>
>
Message 3
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Please check latest postings before adding your own and sending back.
Otherwise some data may be missed out as several people send the
spreadsheet back to the forum. I have added in everything I can find so
far. The complete list is below. If you or any data is missing, please
add it in.
Thanks.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)-
no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
Completed
None
original
none
18/07/2007 15:30
Message 4
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Subject: | Tail plane balancing |
Graham,
You are right. I forgot the effect of T bar weight too. I still believe the corresponding
error is less than the error caused by the slightest bearing friction.
The weight to be added to accurately compensate for the missing T-bar error
could be easily calculated. As the T-bar cannot be removed from a completed
aircraft, could any one in the early building stage provide me with the weight
and CG of the trim tab T-bar, ?
Remi
Remi
I forgot the weight of the trim tab control arm does affect tailplane
balance, so balancing outside the fuselage is not quite so simple.
Graham
Rmi Guerner wrote:
>
> I agree that balancing the tail plane outside the aircraft is a lot
> better than doing it in situ. Doing it that way, I discovered that my
> tail planes were significantly overbalanced. I removed a total of 365
> grams from the mass balance, part of which was due to the heavier Mod 70
> balance arm. It is always nice to have an opportunity to reduce your
> airplane weight.
>
Message 5
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As a result of what at best can be described as a
"misunderstanding" I now have (or will have on Thursday) a
surplus of 2" pip pins :-(
Is there anyone who would like to buy two ?
As it is an unusual size I am planning to carry a spare on
board, is there anyone who would like an extra one for
that purpose ?
20 each.
Richard
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Longer pip pins |
Hi Richard,
I will take the two if they are still available, not sure if I will need
them yet, but they will come in for spares!
Let me know the arrangements and I will send you my address and payment.
Regards
Jim Naylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Longer pip pins
>
> As a result of what at best can be described as a
> "misunderstanding" I now have (or will have on Thursday) a
> surplus of 2" pip pins :-(
>
> Is there anyone who would like to buy two ?
>
> As it is an unusual size I am planning to carry a spare on
> board, is there anyone who would like an extra one for
> that purpose ?
>
> 20 each.
>
> Richard
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
> Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax)
> Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
> SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
> PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 7
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_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon
Sent: 21 July 2007 09:02
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
Please check latest postings before adding your own and sending back.
Otherwise some data may be missed out as several people send the spreadsheet
back to the forum. I have added in everything I can find so far. The
complete list is below. If you or any data is missing, please add it in.
Thanks.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)- no
worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
Original.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
Completed
None
original
none
18/07/2007 15:30
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
18:10
16:39
Message 8
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test
Message 9
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Subject: | Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter locking |
A hint for all monowheel builders: There have been reports on this list
about problems with the undercarriage system not going overcenter as it
should to provide a safe operation on ground. Take it serious and check your
landing gear frame before you install the retraction lever, the retraction
lever guide plate and the flap actuating horn! I didn't and had to learn the
hard way (once more...) that too much confidence in the quality assurance
system of the (former) Europa company bites you. After final assembly of the
landing gear I found out that there was no overcenter locking at all,
because the stops in the landing gear frame were so long, that there was a
"before center stop condition". A lot of filing in an unpleasant position
had to be done, followed by modifications of the retraction lever guide
plate, the flap actuating horn and who knows what else will come.
My recommendation: Check your undercarriage overcenter condition! If you
dont know how, Ron Parigoris explained it previously on this list and others
made usefull comments. You find it all in the list archive.
Happy building to all of us not yet flying!
Alfred
Alfred Buess
Laenggasse 81, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland
Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter |
locking
I had this very problem.... my landing gear retracted on rollout and cost me about
$10,000 (partially because I chose to dump the mono wheel system and convert
to tri gear
Paul Boulet, N914PB tri gear, Malibu, CA
25 hours flown off- still tweakin' it
"Europa (Alfred Buess)" <ykibuess@bluewin.ch> wrote:
A hint for all monowheel builders: There have been reports on this list
about problems with the undercarriage system not going overcenter as it
should to provide a safe operation on ground. Take it serious and check your
landing gear frame before you install the retraction lever, the retraction
lever guide plate and the flap actuating horn! I didn't and had to learn the
hard way (once more...) that too much confidence in the quality assurance
system of the (former) Europa company bites you. After final assembly of the
landing gear I found out that there was no overcenter locking at all,
because the stops in the landing gear frame were so long, that there was a
"before center stop condition". A lot of filing in an unpleasant position
had to be done, followed by modifications of the retraction lever guide
plate, the flap actuating horn and who knows what else will come.
My recommendation: Check your undercarriage overcenter condition! If you
dont know how, Ron Parigoris explained it previously on this list and others
made usefull comments. You find it all in the list archive.
Happy building to all of us not yet flying!
Alfred
Alfred Buess
Laenggasse 81, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland
Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS
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