---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/21/07: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:16 AM - Re: TP6 Bonding Survey (Alan Burrows) 2. 12:22 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (A B Milne) 3. 01:03 AM - Mod 73 results (Richard Iddon) 4. 01:08 AM - Tail plane balancing (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=) 5. 01:22 AM - Longer pip pins (Richard Holder) 6. 01:45 AM - Re: Longer pip pins (Jim Naylor) 7. 02:00 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Peter Jeffers) 8. 02:36 AM - test (Remi Guerner) 9. 12:23 PM - Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter locking (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 10. 02:39 PM - Re: Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter locking (Paul Boulet) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:51 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: TP6 Bonding Survey Hi Richard It=92s an excellent start and gives me confidence also keep it up. Cheers Alan _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 21 July 2007 07:56 Subject: RE: Europa-List: TP6 Bonding Survey OK I know it is not going to be complete and maybe those who do have problems may not want it known. It is a start however and it already gives me a little more confidence knowing that all those who have responded so far have had no problems with disbonding etc. As I said, if anyone has a better idea or someone from the EC wants to take it on, please do so. Richard Iddon G-RIXS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: 20 July 2007 23:23 Subject: Re: Europa-List: TP6 Bonding Survey I dont want to knock anybodys worthy efforts in compiling a list of Mod 73'ers but I agree whole heartedly that this job would be better handled by the Europa club committee. My pesonal view (which I have stated before) is that inspectors should be required report irregularities/ problems as a matter of routine to either the PFA or the aircraft manfacturer so that results can be collated and potential accidents pre-empted. Unfortunately this isnt going to happen. I agree that confidentiality is a big issue and those of us who find irregularities may choose not add their details to the list. This will create the impression that everything in the garden is rosy when it may in fact not be. Another complication is that some of us (me included) may choose to fly off the 10 hours allowed before undertaking the work so it may be some time before a complete list is compiled. Finally many Europa owners are not membersof this forum so will be excluded from the survey. The only way to produce a meaningful survey would be for the factory to require all Europa owners to participate in the survey which would be collated by either themselves or the PFA. The advantage of channeling this exercise through the Europa club (assuming they would accept the task) is that individual annonymity could be guaranteed and only the figures need be reported back to the authorities. I am totally in favour with your proposal Bryan but I will be happy to add my details to the current list if the EC arent able step into the breach. 18/07/2007 15:30 18/07/2007 15:30 "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Nav igator?Europa-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 19/07/2007 18:10 19/07/2007 18:10 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:03 AM PST US From: A B Milne Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results Add: Alasdair Milne UK G-CBYN Completed None 1.75 (not changed) None Quoting Richard Iddon : > There has been a suggestion that 'someone' should collate the findings > and results from doing mod 73. > > I have also noted the way that the visitors to Oshkosh have added their > names to a round robin list. Maybe we could do something similar on the > forum for the mod. > > As an example or to make a start > > Name Country Airplane reg. > Progress on mod 73 Disbonding of TP6 pip pins used Any > problems found > Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS > Completed None found 2 in. > Nothing major > > > If anyone has any better idea, please feel free to add to the above, > modify or offer suggestions. Once most members have done the mod the > results can be emailed to the PFA although I guess that they will be > monitoring this site. > > Richard Iddon G-RIXS > > 18/07/2007 15:30 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:38 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: Europa-List: Mod 73 results Please check latest postings before adding your own and sending back. Otherwise some data may be missed out as several people send the spreadsheet back to the forum. I have added in everything I can find so far. The complete list is below. If you or any data is missing, please add it in. Thanks. Richard Iddon G-RIXS Name Country Reg Type Hours Landing sfc. Mod 73 progress Disbonding of TP6 Pip Pins Problems found Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS Tri gear 365 Tarmac Completed None found 2in. nothing major Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri gear 46 Grass Completed None found 2in. nothing major Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono 320 Both Completed None found Original None Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM Mono Not done None found Original Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)- no worse Danny Shepherd UK G-CERI Tri Gear Completed None found 2in. Pete Jeffers UK G-BVIZ Tri Gear Completed None found 2in. well within limits Brian Davies UK G-DDBD Tri Gear 20 mixed Completed None found 1.9in. none Graham Drake UK G-CCOV Mono 60 Mostly Hard Completed None found 2in. Sarah Attubato UK G-BWDP Mono N/A N/A Completed None found 2in. These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built David Watts UK G-BXDY Mono 1250 Mostly Grass Completed None found 2in. Nigel Charles UK G-MIME Mono Completed None found 2in. nothing major Mike Clews UK G-OMIK Mono 500 Grass Completed None found Original nothing major Arthur Orchard uk G-JOST Tri Gear 17.5 hrs Tar/Mac completed none found original nothing found Colin Smallwood UK G-DEBR Tri Gear Tarmac W.I.P None found 2in TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard Alasdair Milne UK G-CBYN Tri Gear Completed None original none 18/07/2007 15:30 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:35 AM PST US From: =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?= Subject: Europa-List: Tail plane balancing Graham, You are right. I forgot the effect of T bar weight too. I still believe the corresponding error is less than the error caused by the slightest bearing friction. The weight to be added to accurately compensate for the missing T-bar error could be easily calculated. As the T-bar cannot be removed from a completed aircraft, could any one in the early building stage provide me with the weight and CG of the trim tab T-bar, ? Remi Remi I forgot the weight of the trim tab control arm does affect tailplane balance, so balancing outside the fuselage is not quite so simple. Graham Rmi Guerner wrote: > > I agree that balancing the tail plane outside the aircraft is a lot > better than doing it in situ. Doing it that way, I discovered that my > tail planes were significantly overbalanced. I removed a total of 365 > grams from the mass balance, part of which was due to the heavier Mod 70 > balance arm. It is always nice to have an opportunity to reduce your > airplane weight. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:52 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Europa-List: Longer pip pins As a result of what at best can be described as a "misunderstanding" I now have (or will have on Thursday) a surplus of 2" pip pins :-( Is there anyone who would like to buy two ? As it is an unusual size I am planning to carry a spare on board, is there anyone who would like an extra one for that purpose ? 20 each. Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:32 AM PST US From: "Jim Naylor" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Longer pip pins Hi Richard, I will take the two if they are still available, not sure if I will need them yet, but they will come in for spares! Let me know the arrangements and I will send you my address and payment. Regards Jim Naylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: Europa-List: Longer pip pins > > As a result of what at best can be described as a > "misunderstanding" I now have (or will have on Thursday) a > surplus of 2" pip pins :-( > > Is there anyone who would like to buy two ? > > As it is an unusual size I am planning to carry a spare on > board, is there anyone who would like an extra one for > that purpose ? > > 20 each. > > Richard > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) > Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) > Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) > SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross > PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:44 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 results _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 21 July 2007 09:02 Subject: Europa-List: Mod 73 results Please check latest postings before adding your own and sending back. Otherwise some data may be missed out as several people send the spreadsheet back to the forum. I have added in everything I can find so far. The complete list is below. If you or any data is missing, please add it in. Thanks. Richard Iddon G-RIXS Name Country Reg Type Hours Landing sfc. Mod 73 progress Disbonding of TP6 Pip Pins Problems found Richard Iddon UK G-RIXS Tri gear 365 Tarmac Completed None found 2in. nothing major Steve Pitt UK G-SMDH Tri gear 46 Grass Completed None found 2in. nothing major Ron Jones UK G-RJWX Mono 320 Both Completed None found Original None Tim Ward NZ ZK-TIM Mono Not done None found Original Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)- no worse Danny Shepherd UK G-CERI Tri Gear Completed None found 2in. Pete Jeffers UK G-BVIZ Tri Gear Completed None found Original. well within limits Brian Davies UK G-DDBD Tri Gear 20 mixed Completed None found 1.9in. none Graham Drake UK G-CCOV Mono 60 Mostly Hard Completed None found 2in. Sarah Attubato UK G-BWDP Mono N/A N/A Completed None found 2in. These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built David Watts UK G-BXDY Mono 1250 Mostly Grass Completed None found 2in. Nigel Charles UK G-MIME Mono Completed None found 2in. nothing major Mike Clews UK G-OMIK Mono 500 Grass Completed None found Original nothing major Arthur Orchard uk G-JOST Tri Gear 17.5 hrs Tar/Mac completed none found original nothing found Colin Smallwood UK G-DEBR Tri Gear Tarmac W.I.P None found 2in TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard Alasdair Milne UK G-CBYN Tri Gear Completed None original none 18/07/2007 15:30 "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Europa-List 18:10 16:39 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:42 AM PST US From: Remi Guerner Subject: Europa-List: test test ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:05 PM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: Europa-List: Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter locking A hint for all monowheel builders: There have been reports on this list about problems with the undercarriage system not going overcenter as it should to provide a safe operation on ground. Take it serious and check your landing gear frame before you install the retraction lever, the retraction lever guide plate and the flap actuating horn! I didn't and had to learn the hard way (once more...) that too much confidence in the quality assurance system of the (former) Europa company bites you. After final assembly of the landing gear I found out that there was no overcenter locking at all, because the stops in the landing gear frame were so long, that there was a "before center stop condition". A lot of filing in an unpleasant position had to be done, followed by modifications of the retraction lever guide plate, the flap actuating horn and who knows what else will come. My recommendation: Check your undercarriage overcenter condition! If you dont know how, Ron Parigoris explained it previously on this list and others made usefull comments. You find it all in the list archive. Happy building to all of us not yet flying! Alfred Alfred Buess Laenggasse 81, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:35 PM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: Hint for monowheel builders: Undercarriage overcenter locking I had this very problem.... my landing gear retracted on rollout and cost me about $10,000 (partially because I chose to dump the mono wheel system and convert to tri gear Paul Boulet, N914PB tri gear, Malibu, CA 25 hours flown off- still tweakin' it "Europa (Alfred Buess)" wrote: A hint for all monowheel builders: There have been reports on this list about problems with the undercarriage system not going overcenter as it should to provide a safe operation on ground. Take it serious and check your landing gear frame before you install the retraction lever, the retraction lever guide plate and the flap actuating horn! I didn't and had to learn the hard way (once more...) that too much confidence in the quality assurance system of the (former) Europa company bites you. After final assembly of the landing gear I found out that there was no overcenter locking at all, because the stops in the landing gear frame were so long, that there was a "before center stop condition". A lot of filing in an unpleasant position had to be done, followed by modifications of the retraction lever guide plate, the flap actuating horn and who knows what else will come. My recommendation: Check your undercarriage overcenter condition! If you dont know how, Ron Parigoris explained it previously on this list and others made usefull comments. You find it all in the list archive. Happy building to all of us not yet flying! Alfred Alfred Buess Laenggasse 81, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.