Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:03 AM - coolant-hoses (rob zeelenberg)
2. 07:26 AM - AW: coolant-hoses (Ing. Gottfried Komaier)
3. 08:54 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Trevpond@aol.com)
4. 08:57 AM - Re: coolant-hoses (rob zeelenberg)
5. 09:41 AM - Re: coolant-hoses (Pete Lawless)
6. 09:42 AM - Mod 73 listing (Richard Holder)
7. 09:49 AM - evans, temps (josok)
8. 09:54 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (David Watts)
9. 09:57 AM - Re: coolant-hoses (Michel AUVRAY)
10. 10:04 AM - Re: evans, temps (Michel AUVRAY)
11. 10:04 AM - Re: evans, temps (Jeff B)
12. 10:46 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (Bob Fairall)
13. 10:52 AM - Re: Mod 73 listing (Richard Iddon)
14. 10:56 AM - Re: Europa colours (Raimo Toivio)
15. 11:05 AM - Re: Mod 73 listing (gregoryf.flyboy)
16. 11:12 AM - Re: Mod 73 listing (gregoryf.flyboy)
17. 11:20 AM - Re: Europa colours (Gert Dalgaard)
18. 12:02 PM - Re: Mod 73 listing (Richard Iddon)
19. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Europa rules (Raimo Toivio)
20. 12:16 PM - Re: evans, temps (josok)
21. 12:36 PM - Re: evans, temps (Steve Pitt)
22. 12:37 PM - Re: Europa colours (Raimo Toivio)
23. 12:53 PM - Angle of Attack (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
24. 12:59 PM - Re: evans, temps (m.clews)
25. 01:56 PM - Re: Angle of Attack (josok)
26. 02:14 PM - Mod 73 results (Ron Jones)
27. 03:23 PM - Re: Angle of Attack (Rob Housman)
28. 03:43 PM - Re: Angle of Attack (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
29. 04:01 PM - Re: First flight (karelvranken)
30. 04:14 PM - Re: Angle of Attack (Graham Singleton)
31. 04:40 PM - Re: evans, temps (Rman)
32. 08:44 PM - x tended range (Finklea)
Message 1
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Hi forum,
As I want to change my coolant and oil-hoses for my rotax 912 I remember
there has been someone mentioning there were hoses available I think
from sweden ? for the 914 engine they were blue and in development for
the 912 ? anyone who can help me out here in finding the mail-adress
about this ?? kind regards rob zeelenberg (phpop)
Message 2
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Hi Rob,
here comes for what you are looking for:
Stefan Ingemarsson
Magasinsgatan 2
SE-541 34 Sk=F6vde
Sweden
Stefan Ingemarsson [ingemarsson.s@telia.com]
Regards,
Gottfried Komaier
_____
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von rob
zeelenberg
Gesendet: Montag, 23. Juli 2007 16:01
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: coolant-hoses
Hi forum,
As I want to change my coolant and oil-hoses for my rotax 912 I remember
there has been someone mentioning there were hoses available I think
from
sweden ? for the 914 engine they were blue and in development for the
912 ?
anyone who can help me out here in finding the mail-adress about this ??
kind regards rob zeelenberg (phpop)
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I have
copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works. Please fill in
the
blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has been missed off I
apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)- no
worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List)
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Subject: | Re: coolant-hoses |
Hi Gottfried ,most kind ,thanks for the info Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Ing. Gottfried Komaier
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:26 PM
Subject: AW: Europa-List: coolant-hoses
Hi Rob,
here comes for what you are looking for:
Stefan Ingemarsson
Magasinsgatan 2
SE-541 34 Sk=F6vde
Sweden
Stefan Ingemarsson [ingemarsson.s@telia.com]
Regards,
Gottfried Komaier
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von rob
zeelenberg
Gesendet: Montag, 23. Juli 2007 16:01
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: coolant-hoses
Hi forum,
As I want to change my coolant and oil-hoses for my rotax 912 I
remember there has been someone mentioning there were hoses available I
think from sweden ? for the 914 engine they were blue and in development
for the 912 ? anyone who can help me out here in finding the mail-adress
about this ?? kind regards rob zeelenberg (phpop)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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Rob
Can you copy me in on any information re costs & delivery? I have a 912
installed in a Classic.
Thanks
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rob
zeelenberg
Sent: 23 July 2007 16:55
Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant-hoses
Hi Gottfried ,most kind ,thanks for the info Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Ing. <mailto:gottfried.komaier@gmx.net> Gottfried Komaier
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:26 PM
Subject: AW: Europa-List: coolant-hoses
Hi Rob,
here comes for what you are looking for:
Stefan Ingemarsson
Magasinsgatan 2
SE-541 34 Sk=F6vde
Sweden
Stefan Ingemarsson [ingemarsson.s@telia.com]
Regards,
Gottfried Komaier
_____
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von rob
zeelenberg
Gesendet: Montag, 23. Juli 2007 16:01
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: coolant-hoses
Hi forum,
As I want to change my coolant and oil-hoses for my rotax 912 I remember
there has been someone mentioning there were hoses available I think
from
sweden ? for the 914 engine they were blue and in development for the
912 ?
anyone who can help me out here in finding the mail-adress about this ??
kind regards rob zeelenberg (phpop)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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Message 6
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Team
I don't know if anyone else has been having trouble
reading the list of completed Mod 73 aircraft. I have. I
just get a list with one item on each line.
I have taken the liberty of creating something much more
readable in .pdf format. Of course it is non-editable, but
I suggest that all other reports should come to me and I
will add them to the list and republish - say twice a
week. I am fairly certain that after the "tag your details
onto the end of this" approach, several sets of info have
been lost. I took this list from trevpond's email of this
afternoon.
To that end please check the attached .pdf and mail me
direct with any omissions, changes or additions.
The bad news is that when I post my results I will end up
destroying the perfect symmetry of "no TP6 disbonding
found" :-(
Richard Holder
G-OWWW High Cross
Message 7
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Hi All,
Is there still somebody using Evans,and if so, what temps do you see?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
[/u]
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevpond@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I
have copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works.
Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has
been missed off I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the
typical landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with
failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Europa-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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Hi Rob,
I change all of my hoses in my 912, I used a GATES hose
Internal diameter 17 mm
PN DIN 73411
For fuel lines:
Internal diameter 7.5mm
PN DIN 73 379 Hutchinson or Gates
All of these hoses have double skin with fabric in the middle
Somes others company produces these DIN references.
Normally these hoses are available in a Automotive shop.
Michel Auvray
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de rob zeelenberg
Envoy : lundi 23 juillet 2007 16:01
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: coolant-hoses
Hi forum,
As I want to change my coolant and oil-hoses for my rotax 912 I remember
there has been someone mentioning there were hoses available I think from
sweden ? for the 914 engine they were blue and in development for the 912 ?
anyone who can help me out here in finding the mail-adress about this ??
kind regards rob zeelenberg (phpop)
Message 10
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Hi Jos,
We used only the Volkswagen G012 coolant liquid dilution is 2/3 as like
hundred of Rotax users. 2/3=-24C 1/1=-36C 2/1=-54C
- No corrosive
- No combustible
- Auto obturating (if you have small leaks)
- Life guarantee (no replace the liquid)
- Normal price 12 for 1.5 liter
Available on all VW shop
Evans is combustible... no comments!
Michel
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de josok
Envoy : lundi 23 juillet 2007 18:46
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: evans, temps
Hi All,
Is there still somebody using Evans,and if so, what temps do you see?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
[/u]
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: evans, temps |
Jos,
I'm using Evans in Baby Blue. Yesterday was a fairly hot day, 90+ F.
Temps, on climb out were: Water 230F, CHT 230 - 240F, Oil 200F. Temps
in cruise are about: Water 200F, CHT 210F, Oil 190F. I've had
absolutely no problems with the Evans coolant. BTW, I'm using the
standard, Rotax supplied cap. Engine is a 912S.
Jeff - Baby Blue
304 hrs
josok wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Is there still somebody using Evans,and if so, what temps do you see?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
> [/u]
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
Message 12
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From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts
Sent: 23 July 2007 17:54
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevpond@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I have
copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works. Please fill
in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has been missed off
I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
Completed
None found
Original
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)- no
worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
TrevPond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Bob Fairall
UK
G-BXLK
Mono
385
Grass
Completed
None found
2"
None
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
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cs.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 13
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Richard.
Thanks for taking this on. I have attached the most complete spreadsheet
that I have managed to compile from results posted on the forum.
I also paste it below. You should be able to read one or the other.
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)-
no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
Completed
None
original
none
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Holder
Sent: 23 July 2007 17:41
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 73 listing
Team
I don't know if anyone else has been having trouble
reading the list of completed Mod 73 aircraft. I have. I
just get a list with one item on each line.
I have taken the liberty of creating something much more
readable in .pdf format. Of course it is non-editable, but
I suggest that all other reports should come to me and I
will add them to the list and republish - say twice a
week. I am fairly certain that after the "tag your details
onto the end of this" approach, several sets of info have
been lost. I took this list from trevpond's email of this
afternoon.
To that end please check the attached .pdf and mail me
direct with any omissions, changes or additions.
The bad news is that when I post my results I will end up
destroying the perfect symmetry of "no TP6 disbonding
found" :-(
Richard Holder
G-OWWW High Cross
22/07/2007 19:02
22/07/2007 19:02
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
Hi Rob
As I wrote
"I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white."
and
"I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful. "
and
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night time
if
you wanna be absolutely sure"
Anyway - I called to my friend Jukka Paavolainen, who has build
and still flies his Lancair 320 OH-XJP. He said his Lancair is
just on ordinary glasfibre - epox system and definetely not baked
in high temparatures. Only the cowlings - because of the engine and
exhaust heat - has been made by more heat resistant phenolresins.
His Lancair kit is year model 1990 and so is my earlier example SE-XOP,
which is overall deepred and beautiful Swedish Lancair 320.
I believe newer models are as you described made by adanced composite
materials.
You wrote
" Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that surface
will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if that
aircraft is any color but white it will absorb too much energy. "
and I still think you are wrong. I am going to talk to one
thermodynamist,
who works as a doctor in Tampere Univercity. Maybe he can make this
thing clear. I promise to come back and tell what he know. Also if I am
wrong...
Fly it - do not melt it...
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying in
warmer climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
technical detail, and I used the word "reflected" where I should have
used the technically correct term "emitted."
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct that
the sun's energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a
"black body" is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect emitter,
which is to say it may not be reflecting solar heating but it surely
emits it. Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that
surface will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if
that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb too much energy.
Any material absorbing energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there
will be some re-radiation from the dark aircraft structure but that is
irrelevant because the epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than
Europa. Here's how Lancair describes their composites on their web site
http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
"Like every Lancair, the Legacy's major airframe is constructed of
advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under
vacuum pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among the
lightest, strongest, stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass
systems combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered the
supreme composite airframe materials of choice worldwide."
Note that the Lancair's composites are cured at a much higher
temperature than the factory and we cure the Europa structural
components. The "glass transition temperature" is approximately the
cure temperature so softening of the composite does not begin until
approximately T sub g is reached. For a detailed explanation to T sub g
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our
purposes we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening
temperature, above which the structure loses a significant portion of
its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
(including yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual,
Figure 1, Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS
Tri-Gear Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa
floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair 320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total deep
yellow Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night
time if you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike -
In re: dark paint
Don't even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the
heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the
epoxy-fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure
it will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from the
surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle don't have to worry
about getting the airframe too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a
little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of
all in an entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft
really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 15
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On July 23rd, Richard wrote:
>I have taken the liberty of creating something much more
>readable in .pdf format.
It doesn't hurt to have more than one way to present the list. We can pick
and choose which presentation to use.
> I don't know if anyone else has been having trouble
>reading the list of completed Mod 73 aircraft
I do not have any problems reading the mod 73 listings, using MS Outlook.
Maybe it is a setting in the editor? Check to see if your editor is using
HTML format settings, which may have better table or column support.
>I suggest that all other reports should come to me and I
>will add them to the list and republish - say twice a
>week.
Isn't someone already doing this? Do they still want to continue?
...
>I am fairly certain that after the "tag your details
>onto the end of this" approach, several sets of info have
>been lost.
Since the returned Mod 73 listings (for those who have done the mod) are all
the same except for the one line added, it can get a bit time consuming for
those that are tracking this information to sort through. It might be easier
if the listing is returned to the matronics server with only the header and
the one line of new information. For those that are tracking, this will cut
down on searching through the list each time, looking for the one (or three)
new entries.
Example:
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
There can even be a statement to keep from archiving, so that there are not
too many of these on the server. It would also be helpful to be sure to
respond to RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 listing only. That way
the person(s) tracking the info can do a simple search in his email editor
and pull up all the results.
This is only a suggestion, meant for smoother flow of information.
Regards,
Greg Fuchs A050
'Working in the wings
Message 16
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I digress.
Do Not Archive
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gregoryf.flyboy
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 listing
On July 23rd, Richard wrote:
>I have taken the liberty of creating something much more
>readable in .pdf format.
It doesn't hurt to have more than one way to present the list. We can pick
and choose which presentation to use.
> I don't know if anyone else has been having trouble
>reading the list of completed Mod 73 aircraft
I do not have any problems reading the mod 73 listings, using MS Outlook.
Maybe it is a setting in the editor? Check to see if your editor is using
HTML format settings, which may have better table or column support.
>I suggest that all other reports should come to me and I
>will add them to the list and republish - say twice a
>week.
Isn't someone already doing this? Do they still want to continue?
...
>I am fairly certain that after the "tag your details
>onto the end of this" approach, several sets of info have
>been lost.
Since the returned Mod 73 listings (for those who have done the mod) are all
the same except for the one line added, it can get a bit time consuming for
those that are tracking this information to sort through. It might be easier
if the listing is returned to the matronics server with only the header and
the one line of new information. For those that are tracking, this will cut
down on searching through the list each time, looking for the one (or three)
new entries.
Example:
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
There can even be a statement to keep from archiving, so that there are not
too many of these on the server. It would also be helpful to be sure to
respond to RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 listing only. That way
the person(s) tracking the info can do a simple search in his email editor
and pull up all the results.
This is only a suggestion, meant for smoother flow of information.
Regards,
Greg Fuchs A050
'Working in the wings
Message 17
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|
Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
I only fly at night......
:-)
Gert
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg
Den 23/07/2007 kl. 20.02 skrev Raimo Toivio:
> Hi Rob
>
> As I wrote
>
> "I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
> Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
>
> remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white."
>
>
> and
>
>
> "I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even
> more careful. "
>
>
> and
>
>
> "Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night
> time if
>
> you wanna be absolutely sure"
>
>
> Anyway - I called to my friend Jukka Paavolainen, who has build
>
> and still flies his Lancair 320 OH-XJP. He said his Lancair is
>
> just on ordinary glasfibre - epox system and definetely not baked
>
> in high temparatures. Only the cowlings - because of the engine and
>
> exhaust heat - has been made by more heat resistant phenolresins.
>
>
> His Lancair kit is year model 1990 and so is my earlier example SE-
> XOP,
>
> which is overall deepred and beautiful Swedish Lancair 320.
>
>
> I believe newer models are as you described made by adanced
> composite materials.
>
>
> You wrote
>
>
> " Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that
> surface will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and
> if that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb too much
> energy. "
>
>
> and I still think you are wrong. I am going to talk to one
> thermodynamist,
>
> who works as a doctor in Tampere Univercity. Maybe he can make this
>
> thing clear. I promise to come back and tell what he know. Also if
> I am wrong...
>
>
> Fly it - do not melt it...
>
> Raimo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rob Housman
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 6:02 PM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
>
> Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying
> in warmer climes.
>
>
> In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
> technical detail, and I used the word =93reflected=94 where I should
> have used the technically correct term =93emitted.=94
>
>
> First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct
> that the sun=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface.
> However, a =93black body=94 is not only a perfect absorber but also a
> perfect emitter, which is to say it may not be reflecting solar
> heating but it surely emits it. Park on a black surface and the
> solar energy absorbed by that surface will be re-radiated to the
> underside of the aircraft, and if that aircraft is any color but
> white it will absorb too much energy. Any material absorbing
> energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there will be some re-
> radiation from the dark aircraft structure but that is irrelevant
> because the epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
>
>
> Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than
> Europa. Here=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web
> sitehttp://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
>
>
> =93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=92s major airframe is constructed of
> advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under
> vacuum pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are
> among the lightest, strongest, stiffest materials known.
>
>
> The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or
> fiberglass systems combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are
> considered the supreme composite airframe materials of choice
> worldwide.=94
>
>
> Note that the Lancair=92s composites are cured at a much higher
> temperature than the factory and we cure the Europa structural
> components. The =93glass transition temperature=94 is approximately
> the cure temperature so softening of the composite does not begin
> until approximately T sub g is reached. For a detailed explanation
> to T sub g see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Glass_transition_temperature For our purposes we can consider the
> glass transition temperature the softening temperature, above which
> the structure loses a significant portion of its strength.
>
>
> Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
> (including yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual,
> Figure 1, Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the
> Europa XS Tri-Gear Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Rob Housman
>
> Irvine, California
>
> Europa XS Tri-Gear
>
> S/N A070
>
> Airframe complete
>
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
>
>
> Rob,
>
>
> I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
>
> Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
>
> remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
>
>
> I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
>
> reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
>
> it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
>
> energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
>
> cool because they are reflecting out much more.
>
>
> So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
>
> surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa
> floats!).
>
>
> In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
> Lancair 320
>
> and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
>
> we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total
> deep yellow Europa.
>
>
> I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
> careful.
>
> Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
>
> That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
>
>
> "Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night
> time if you wanna be absolutely sure"
>
>
> Raimo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Rob Housman
>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
>
>
> Mike '
>
>
> In re: dark paint
>
>
> Don=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the
> heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the epoxy-
> fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure it
> will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from the
> surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle don=92t have to
> worry about getting the airframe too hot.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Rob Housman
>
> Irvine, California
>
> Europa XS Tri-Gear
>
> S/N A070
>
> Airframe complete
>
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
>
>
> Raimo,
>
>
> Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand
> a little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the
> list of all in an entire country.
>
>
> Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft
> really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
>
>
> Mike Duane A207A
> Redding, California
> XS Conventional Gear
> Jabiru 3300
> Sensenich R64Z N
> Ground Adjustable Prop
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://
> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
> forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://
> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
> forums.matronics.com
> ========================
> ========================
>
Message 18
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I am happy to continue to add results to my spreadsheet. I will publish
a full listing once or twice a week as required.
Following on from Greg's suggestion, to keep it simple and save
bandwidth / storage space on the server, just send the raw data to the
forum or to me directly and I will append it to my table.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS My direct email address is riddon@sent.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gregoryf.flyboy
Sent: 23 July 2007 19:04
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 listing
On July 23rd, Richard wrote:
>I have taken the liberty of creating something much more
>readable in .pdf format.
It doesn't hurt to have more than one way to present the list. We can
pick and choose which presentation to use.
> I don't know if anyone else has been having trouble
>reading the list of completed Mod 73 aircraft
I do not have any problems reading the mod 73 listings, using MS
Outlook. Maybe it is a setting in the editor? Check to see if your
editor is using HTML format settings, which may have better table or
column support.
>I suggest that all other reports should come to me and I
>will add them to the list and republish - say twice a
>week.
Isn't someone already doing this? Do they still want to continue?
...
>I am fairly certain that after the "tag your details
>onto the end of this" approach, several sets of info have
>been lost.
Since the returned Mod 73 listings (for those who have done the mod) are
all the same except for the one line added, it can get a bit time
consuming for those that are tracking this information to sort through.
It might be easier if the listing is returned to the matronics server
with only the header and the one line of new information. For those that
are tracking, this will cut down on searching through the list each
time, looking for the one (or three) new entries.
Example:
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
There can even be a statement to keep from archiving, so that there are
not too many of these on the server. It would also be helpful to be
sure to respond to RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 listing
only. That way the person(s) tracking the info can do a simple search in
his email editor and pull up all the results.
This is only a suggestion, meant for smoother flow of information.
Regards,
Greg Fuchs A050
'Working in the wings
22/07/2007 19:02
22/07/2007 19:02
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: Europa rules |
Cheers Michael and Bob
Both of you wanted to see more
OH-XRT=B4s panel pics.
Please click a link below
http://www.ilmailu.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=18&page=6
and you will find 16 of them (pages 6 & 7).
Michael:
Yes - my Dynon is behing the gear lever.
And I do have complete access to the buttons
and the screen is clearly visible.
In fact this hole is like designed for little Dynon
- Ivan Shaw must be a really prognosticator when designing the Europa
panel!
Advantage: The screen is also in a good shadow and so more readable.
Disadvantage: you have to make a hole to the firewall, because
Dynon=B4s ass (D-connector) must protrude through it about 2" = 50 mm.
Otherwise it is impossible to retract the gear. I learned it by very
hard way!
I covered the hole and the connector by stainless steel box.
Wishes, Raimo
===========
Raimo M W Toivio
OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, The Experimental of The Year
OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, totally restored 2006-2007
OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines (grounded)
37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450
raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
www.rwm.fi
----- Original Message -----
From: Michel AUVRAY
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
hello Raimo,
IThanks for yours pictures, I see the panel picture, you install the
dynon efis behind the gear lever, do you see correctly the screen in
flight? and do you have complete acces to the buttons also in flight?
If you have others pictures panel please send to me.
Thanks
Michel AUVRAY
Builder 145 > 320 hours flight
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Raimo
Toivio
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 20 juillet 2007 01:28
=C0 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike
Thank you.
I think Europa-owners are today the tallest pilots ever.
And still growing...
Attaced a panel pic - it was not completed half year ago.
I should take a more vendible pic some day.
The underside colour is really dark, RAL colour named unusual
blackred
(looks sometimes black, sometimes brown and sometimes purple).
The wing undersides and tailplane undersides has been painted like
triangle
- so Lady Windmaker Tuuli-Ilmatar looks like a bird when flying
over.
Reason: The main reason to exist for OUR Europa XRT is to be
beautiful.
We thought double colour underlines Europa Mono=B4s beautiful shape.
We do not like any strips or stars...
And if you can have white planes there in California, we can
definetely fly here by
cream colour plane (we fly most of the time top up of course)! Sun
is so
rare visitor here, unfortunately.
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:22 AM
Subject: [PHISHING]: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
Panda Antivirus + Firewall 2007 on havainnut t=E4m=E4n
s=E4hk=F6postiviestin olevan mahdollisesti vilpillinen.
Vilpilliset s=E4hk=F6postiviestit voivat olla merkki
petos-yrityksest=E4.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand
a little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of
all in an entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your
aircraft really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for
this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
Panda Antivirus + Firewall 2007 on havainnut t=E4m=E4n
s=E4hk=F6postiviestin olevan mahdollisesti vilpillinen.
Vilpilliset s=E4hk=F6postiviestit voivat olla merkki
petos-yrityksest=E4.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
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Subject: | Re: evans, temps |
Hi Jeff,
These are the temperatures i would like too. Was there a significant change after
the first hours? At the moment i am seeing close to 130 C on a 13 C day on
climb-out. There are several changes to the standard system, and maybe that was
not a good idea.
Oh Michel, i don't remember asking for alternatives to Evans.
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
PS first flight pictures of OH-XJO in the gallery, under the flying Europa's chapter
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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Subject: | Re: evans, temps |
I echo Jeff's report. I have used Evans since the start but only during last
years very hot summer on my ground runs was I getting close to the maximum
water temps.
Regards
Steve Pitt
G-SMDH 912S Trigear
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Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
Gert, so beautiful is your plane!
I think we once met in Barkaby.
Anyway - your Europa has been one of my inspiring examples during the
years.
But it is obvious - you are living in a country of great design like
Bang&Olufsen.
But how dare you make a dark bottom, bad boy you are!
Any difficulties /delaminations?
Let me guess: not at all.
All the others:
By the way, what is the temp inside the cowlings when
taxiing long in a hot day? There, near by the critical areas.
I painted all the inside glass surfaces white and have a
heat reflecting & noise insulating firewall coating.
Moro, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Gert Dalgaard
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
I only fly at night......
:-)
Gert
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg
Den 23/07/2007 kl. 20.02 skrev Raimo Toivio:
Hi Rob
As I wrote
"I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white."
and
"I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful. "
and
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night
time if
you wanna be absolutely sure"
Anyway - I called to my friend Jukka Paavolainen, who has build
and still flies his Lancair 320 OH-XJP. He said his Lancair is
just on ordinary glasfibre - epox system and definetely not baked
in high temparatures. Only the cowlings - because of the engine and
exhaust heat - has been made by more heat resistant phenolresins.
His Lancair kit is year model 1990 and so is my earlier example
SE-XOP,
which is overall deepred and beautiful Swedish Lancair 320.
I believe newer models are as you described made by adanced
composite materials.
You wrote
" Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that
surface will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if
that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb too much energy. "
and I still think you are wrong. I am going to talk to one
thermodynamist,
who works as a doctor in Tampere Univercity. Maybe he can make this
thing clear. I promise to come back and tell what he know. Also if I
am wrong...
Fly it - do not melt it...
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying
in warmer climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
technical detail, and I used the word =93reflected=94 where I should
have used the technically correct term =93emitted.=94
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct
that the sun=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface. However,
a =93black body=94 is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect
emitter, which is to say it may not be reflecting solar heating but it
surely emits it. Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed
by that surface will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft,
and if that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb too much
energy. Any material absorbing energy will increase in temperature.
Sure, there will be some re-radiation from the dark aircraft structure
but that is irrelevant because the epoxy-fiberglass will already have
softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than
Europa. Here=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web
sitehttp://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
=93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=92s major airframe is
constructed of advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees
Fahrenheit under vacuum pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based
composites are among the lightest, strongest, stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or
fiberglass systems combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are
considered the supreme composite airframe materials of choice
worldwide.=94
Note that the Lancair=92s composites are cured at a much higher
temperature than the factory and we cure the Europa structural
components. The =93glass transition temperature=94 is approximately the
cure temperature so softening of the composite does not begin until
approximately T sub g is reached. For a detailed explanation to T sub g
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our
purposes we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening
temperature, above which the structure loses a significant portion of
its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
(including yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual,
Figure 1, Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS
Tri-Gear Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa
floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair 320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And
like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total
deep yellow Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even
more careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night
time if you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike '
In re: dark paint
Don=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm
days the heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the
epoxy-fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure
it will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from the
surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle don=92t have to worry
about getting the airframe too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all
stand a little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the
list of all in an entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your
aircraft really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for
this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
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I am installing a Dynon ASI / AOA indicator. The pitot tube should be parallel
to the direction of flight when in cruise. In order to install it, it is necessary
to set it with reference to the chord of the wing, but I don't see anywhere
what the angle of attack is. I also thought the spar might be 90 degrees
from the chord but it does not appear that that is the case.
How have others who are using the Dynon pitot tube set it?
Jim Puglise, A-283
<html><body>
<DIV>I am installing a Dynon ASI / AOA indicator. The pitot tube should be
parallel to the direction of flight when in cruise. In order to install
it, it is necessary to set it with reference to the chord of the wing, but I
don't see anywhere what the angle of attack is. I also thought the spar
might be 90 degrees from the chord but it does not appear that that is the case.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>How have others who are using the Dynon pitot tube set it? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise, A-283</DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: evans, temps |
Evans gives a higher but stable running temp. around 120degrees on our 914
Mike Clews
G-OMIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Europa-List: evans, temps
>
> Hi All,
>
> Is there still somebody using Evans,and if so, what temps do you see?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
> [/u]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack |
Hi Jim,
Can't see that this has to be absolutely without tolerance exactly parallel. The
dynon aoa indicator will be learning the exact difference between the pitot
and stall tube later during a series of test stalls. In will try to use the standard
europa pitot and the stall warner tube as inputs. Don't know if that works,
but will find it out in a week or so. I have the dynon asi/stall pitot, but
would prefer not to pull more tubes through the plane.
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 26
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----- Original Message -----
From: Trevpond@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
OK. I have transferred the results so far to a spreadsheet which I have
copied and pasted below. I am not an expert so hope it works. Please fill
in the blanks. And send it back to the forum. If anyone has been missed off
I apologise but it is getting a little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the typical
landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)-
no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Message 27
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The angle of incidence (NOT to be confused with the AOA) is set to 2.5
degrees as measured at the wing root per the Builders Manual chapter on
"Wing to Fuselage Assembly". That is, the chord is 2.5 degrees up at the
leading edge, relative to the "waterline" of the fuselage (the waterline
reference in this case being the pilot's side door sill). Since the wing is
designed to stall first at the root, the angle of incidence decreases toward
the wing tip. I don't think that the manual tells us how much the angle of
incidence varies but it should not be necessary to know this for setting the
pitot tube angle.
Since a fixed pitot tube can not be set parallel to the relative wind except
at specific combinations of gross weight and airspeed, I suspect that what
Dynon really wants is for the pitot tube be parallel to the longitudinal
axis of the airframe, and close to the angle of incidence of the wing, with
compensation for any deviation from its preferred angle of incidence being
applied by calibration of the instrument.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jimpuglise@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 12:52 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Angle of Attack
I am installing a Dynon ASI / AOA indicator. The pitot tube should be
parallel to the direction of flight when in cruise. In order to install it,
it is necessary to set it with reference to the chord of the wing, but I
don't see anywhere what the angle of attack is. I also thought the spar
might be 90 degrees from the chord but it does not appear that that is the
case.
How have others who are using the Dynon pitot tube set it?
Jim Puglise, A-283
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack |
Jos-
If you want to use the AOA indicator, they say that you must use the Dynon pitot.
It has a second hole in it at about a 60 degree angle from the pitot and the
Dynon computer looks at the difference between the two inputs. I have installed
both that and the Europa pitot and will use the Europa pitot to drive a
steam gauge backup ASI and the Dynon pitot to drive the Dynon. I will share the
static source from the Europa tube.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Can't see that this has to be absolutely without tolerance exactly parallel.
The
> dynon aoa indicator will be learning the exact difference between the pitot and
> stall tube later during a series of test stalls. In will try to use the standard
> europa pitot and the stall warner tube as inputs. Don't know if that works, but
> will find it out in a week or so. I have the dynon asi/stall pitot, but would
> prefer not to pull more tubes through the plane.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Jos-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you want to use the AOA indicator, they say that you must use the Dynon
pitot. It has a second hole in it at about a 60 degree angle from the pitot
and the Dynon computer looks at the difference between the two inputs.
I have installed both that and the Europa pitot and will use the Europa pitot
to drive a steam gauge backup ASI and the Dynon pitot to drive the Dynon.
I will share the static source from the Europa tube. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> <BR><BR>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <JOSOK-E@UKOLO.FI><BR>> <BR>> Hi Jim, <BR>> <BR>> Can't see that this has to be absolutely without tolerance exactly parallel. The <BR>> dynon aoa indicator will be learning the exact difference between the pitot and <BR>> stall tube later during a series of test stalls. In will try to use the standard <BR>> europa pitot and the stall warner tube as inputs. Don't know if that works, but <BR>> will find it out in a week or so. I have the dynon asi/stall pitot, but would <BR>> prefer not to pull more tubes through the plane. <BR>> <BR>> Kind Regards, <BR>> <BR>> Jos Okhuijsen <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>&
gt; <B
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: First flight |
Congratulations Jos. Suomi is becoming a great "Europa" nation. We also may
thank you for your valuable contribution during your building.
Happy landings!
Karel Vranken, # 447 F-PKRL now 60 hours of joy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: Europa-List: First flight
>
> Today, at the hands of Ivan Shaw the Northernmost built and based Europa
> XS kit 600 OH-XJO took the air.
>
> It flies great, ball in the middle, no hands on the controls, no tabs. Far
> better then i expected :-) and i am still baffled. Temperatures are a bit
> high on the Dynon, but it's probably one of the sensors, since the engine
> does not feel hot.
>
> For the records: It's a XS monowheel, with a Rotax 914ULS, Woodcomp SR
> 3000, Smart Avionics CSG-1/G cs controller, Dynon 180, 2 generators, 2
> batteries, 409 kg or 901 pounds on the scale. Built started end October
> 2003, and i counted about 2300 hours on the job, including some 40 hours
> for the upholsterer fitting the Europa interior kit, 250 hours for the
> filler and sander, and 90 hours for the painters.
>
> My thanks go out to all who have helped with good advice, moral support,
> hands on work, or just good criticism. The list of names is too long to
> mention, and i would risk forgetting somebody, but i can't go around
> without mentioning Raimo Toivio who advised to buy a plane if flying was
> the objective, William Mills and Dave Buzz, accompanied by Paul Sweeting
> and Graham Singleton, who flew all the way up here to boost the build,
> Andy and Nev, John and Roger wit h good advice and the right articles at
> the right time.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack |
Jim
does the Dynon use the 60deg. hole as static? or does it have two pitots
and a static.?
Graham
jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote:
> Jos-
>
> If you want to use the AOA indicator, they say that you must use the
> Dynon pitot. It has a second hole in it at about a 60 degree angle from
> the pitot and the Dynon computer looks at the difference between the two
> inputs. I have installed both that and the Europa pitot and will use
> the Europa pitot to drive a steam gauge backup ASI and the Dynon pitot
> to drive the Dynon. I will share the static source from the Europa tube.
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
> >
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > Can't see that this has to be absolutely without tolerance
> exactly parallel. The
> > dynon aoa indicator will be learning the exact difference between
> the pitot and
> > stall tube later during a series of test stalls. In will try to
> use the standard
> > europa pitot and the stall warner tube as inputs. Don't know if
> that works, but
> > will find it out in a week or so. I have the dynon asi/stall
> pitot, but would
> > prefer not to pull more tubes through the plane.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Jos Okhuijsen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> & gt; **
>
> **
>
>
> **
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: evans, temps |
Jos,
The only change I made to the system was to drop the water cooler about
1" and seal it to the bottom of the cowl with a rubber seal. I also
sealed the ends. All air is forced through the coolers, nothing goes
around. That helped temps, noticeably. Temps were somewhat high for
almost 100 hours. After that, they dropped markedly. Guess it takes
that long to break in the 912S...
Jeff - Baby Blue
josok wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> These are the temperatures i would like too. Was there a significant change after
the first hours? At the moment i am seeing close to 130 C on a 13 C day on
climb-out. There are several changes to the standard system, and maybe that
was not a good idea.
>
> Oh Michel, i don't remember asking for alternatives to Evans.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
> PS first flight pictures of OH-XJO in the gallery, under the flying Europa's
chapter
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
Message 32
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Does anyone use extended range fuel tanks and if so, what type and where?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125449#125449
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