Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Shobdon DOTH (Richard Iddon)
2. 12:41 AM - Re: Angle of Attack (josok)
3. 02:22 AM - Re: Mod 73 results (karelvranken)
4. 02:35 AM - Re: Europa colours (karelvranken)
5. 05:49 AM - Re: x tended range (sisley)
6. 09:25 AM - Re: x tended range (Terry Seaver (terrys))
7. 12:09 PM - Re: Angle of Attack (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
8. 12:32 PM - Re: Angle of Attack (Al Stills)
9. 01:37 PM - Re: First flight (josok)
10. 02:12 PM - mod 73 results (Richard Iddon)
11. 03:14 PM - Re: mod 73 results (Laptop JR)
12. 04:31 PM - Re: Angle of Attack (Graham Singleton)
13. 09:34 PM - Oshkosh Revelers (rampil)
14. 11:02 PM - Re: First flight (Gert Dalgaard)
Message 1
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I should be at Shobdon for lunch today, around midday. Will be pleased
to see anyone else. If going, watch out for hang gliders. A competition
is notamed for the area.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
22/07/2007 19:02
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack |
It's pitot and AOA, it relies on a standard static. The thing i would like tom
try is to use the stall warner vac. split to the AA input on the Dy non. The
result might be in range for the setup of the AA and if not i will install the
massive and heavy Dy non stuff. Will keep you posted, results in a week or so,
when i have a second pilot to be able to play with adjustments in the air. Oh,
in case somebody is interested: The factory stall Warner set, which normally
also needs adjusting was spot on on trial stalls without touching the setup
screw.
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 73 results |
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Jones
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 results
so hope it works. Please fill in the blanks. And send it back to the
forum. If anyone has been missed off I apologise but it is getting a
little complicated.
It would be useful to know the total A/C hours and possibly the
typical landig surface (grass/paved) to establish a correlation with
failures?
Nigel
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
Completed
None found
1.9in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BXDP
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Karel Vranken
B
F-PKRL
Mono
60
Both
Done 2002
None found
Original
I did exactly what mod 73 prescribes before doing the lay ups.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
MessageDo you know the gliders color? They know why!
Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: James
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Anyone remember the factory demonstrator N914XS with the blue belly?
After two or so years in the US sun that plane needed repairs to the
front fuselage as the engine weight was sagging the footwell area of the
plane while it was hot. Needless to say after it was reapaired it was
repainted white. As Rob H said even yellow can get a bit warmer that
white, and I've sprayed one yellow myself.
Paint em' white, or fly em' at night!
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:02 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying
in warmer climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
technical detail, and I used the word "reflected" where I should have
used the technically correct term "emitted."
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct
that the sun's energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a
"black body" is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect emitter,
which is to say it may not be reflecting solar heating but it surely
emits it. Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that
surface will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if
that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb too much energy.
Any material absorbing energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there
will be some re-radiation from the dark aircraft structure but that is
irrelevant because the epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than
Europa. Here's how Lancair describes their composites on their web site
http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
"Like every Lancair, the Legacy's major airframe is constructed of
advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under
vacuum pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among the
lightest, strongest, stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass
systems combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered the
supreme composite airframe materials of choice worldwide."
Note that the Lancair's composites are cured at a much higher
temperature than the factory and we cure the Europa structural
components. The "glass transition temperature" is approximately the
cure temperature so softening of the composite does not begin until
approximately T sub g is reached. For a detailed explanation to T sub g
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our
purposes we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening
temperature, above which the structure loses a significant portion of
its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
(including yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual,
Figure 1, Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS
Tri-Gear Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa
floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair 320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total
deep yellow Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night
time if you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike -
In re: dark paint
Don't even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days
the heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the
epoxy-fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure
it will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from the
surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle don't have to worry
about getting the airframe too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand
a little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of
all in an entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your
aircraft really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for
this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: x tended range |
I have the Europa extended range tank. Works great for me all around New
Zealand.
XS Mono
914-Airmaster
ZK CHV
>
> Does anyone use extended range fuel tanks and if so, what type and where?
> Thanks
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125449#125449
>
>
Message 6
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We use the factory long ranger tank in our mono-wheel XS. I works
fairly well, although we have problems with it losing its 'prime',
requiring us to periodically reach back and pump the priming bulb a few
times.
The extra ten gallons of gas is not only useful for extending our range,
but allows us to carry around an extra supply of auto gas instead of
having to buy 100LL at airports we visit. We prefer not to burn 100LL
if we can help it, as it fouls the plugs, etc.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135 / N135TD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Finklea
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: Europa-List: x tended range
Does anyone use extended range fuel tanks and if so, what type and
where?
Thanks
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack |
Graham-
My understanding is that the two probes are not static and that it will require
another static port. Essentially, both are pitot but there will always be a
pressure differential between them and that differential is what is used to calculate
AOA. My plan is to use the static port from the Europa probe for both
the conventional ASI and the Dynon.
Jim
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
>
> Jim
> does the Dynon use the 60deg. hole as static? or does it have two pitots
> and a static.?
> Graham
>
> jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote:
> > Jos-
> >
> > If you want to use the AOA indicator, they say that you must use the
> > Dynon pitot. It has a second hole in it at about a 60 degree angle from
> > the pitot and the Dynon computer looks at the difference between the two
> > inputs. I have installed both that and the Europa pitot and will use
> > the Europa pitot to drive a steam gauge backup ASI and the Dynon pitot
> > to drive the Dynon. I will share the static source from the Europa tube.
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "josok"
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Jim,
> > >
> > > Can't see that this has to be absolutely without tolerance
> > exactly parallel. The
> > > dynon aoa indicator will be learning the exact difference between
> > the pitot and
> > > stall tube later during a series of test stalls. In will try to
> > use the standard
> > > europa pitot and the stall warner tube as inputs. Don't know if
> > that works, but
> > > will find it out in a week or so. I have the dynon asi/stall
> > pitot, but would
> > > prefer not to pull more tubes through the plane.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > >
> > > Jos Okhuijsen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > & gt; **
> >
> > **
> >
> >
> > **
>
> --
> Graham Singleton
>
> Tel: +441629820187
> Mob: +447739582005
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Graham-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My understanding is that the two probes are not static and that it will require
another static port. Essentially, both are pitot but there will always
be a pressure differential between them and that differential is what is
used to calculate AOA. My plan is to use the static port from the Europa
probe for both the conventional ASI and the Dynon. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Graham Singleton
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> <BR><BR>> --> Europa-List message
posted by: Graham Singleton <BR>> <GRAHAMSINGLETON@BTINTERNET.COM><BR>>
<BR>> Jim <BR>> does the Dynon use the 60deg. hole as static? or does
it have two pitots <BR>> and a static.? <BR>> Graham <BR>> <BR>>
jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: <BR>> > Jos- <BR>> > <BR>> >
If you want to use the AOA indicator, they say that you must use the <BR>>
> Dynon pitot. It has a second hole in it at about a 60 degree angle from
<BR>> > the pitot and the Dynon computer looks at the difference between
the two <BR>> > inputs. I have installed both that and the Europa pitot
and will use <BR>> > the Europa pitot to drive a steam gauge backup ASI
and the Dynon pitot <BR>> > to drive the Dyno
n. I w
ill share the static source from the Europa tube. <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> > From:
"josok" <JOSOK-E@UKOLO.FI><BR>> > <BR>> > > --> Europa-List
message posted by: "josok" <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Hi Jim, <BR>>
> > <BR>> > > Can't see that this has to be absolutely without
tolerance <BR>> > exactly parallel. The <BR>> > > dynon aoa
indicator will be learning the exact difference between <BR>> > the pitot
and <BR>> > > stall tube later during a series of test stalls. In
will try to <BR>> > use the standard <BR>> > > europa pitot and
the stall warner tube as inputs. Don't know if <BR>> > that works, but
<BR>> > > will find it out in a week or so. I have the dynon asi/stall
<BR>> > pitot, but would <BR>> > > prefer not to pull more
tubes through the plane. <BR>> > > <BR>>
> &
=====
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 8
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For those of you who want to know about the Dynon probe, I have installed on
my plane. The Dynon probe is Pitot and AOA only.no static. I
installed mine on the starboard wing of the Europa probe and ran back to the
panel. So I have 2 pitot's , an AOA and a static. The location I used
is the exact spot on the opposite wing from the Europa static and pitot. I
have used both pitots as I have an airspeed indicator and the Dynon and both
are exactly
the same on indicated airspeed. After using for a while, I could get rid of
the Winter airspeed indicator as I don't use it much. I also have the stall
warner and am thinking about getting rid of that as the AOA takes care of
all stall alarms. It has a solid or progressive alarm that you set up when
you calibrate the AOA. The location of the probe should be as close to the
Europa location as possible, only on the starboard wing. With the
calibration
that you go through it does not have to be exact. The calibration is set in
flight (first in straight and level ,then in all stalls, with and without
flaps).
I am really impressed with the Dynon and have added the EMS and pulled the
GRT EMS out.
Al Stills
N625AZ 50+ Hrs and counting
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Hi All
The promised pictures are at http://www.europaowners.org
gallery and the flying Europa's album, under the call sign OH-XJO
We did also some A2A, and my first formation flying (in the photo ship)
The one i like best is across the final for 22.
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 10
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Tuesday 24th. 22:00 This is the full table of results I have compiled
so far. If you have sent anything and it has been missed off, please
email me directly and I will add it to the list.
Keep the info coming, it is certainly giving me more confidence in my
ship.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365.00
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)-
no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20.00
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
Completed
None
original
none
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Robert Marston
UK
G-CDBX
Tri Gear
230.00
Grass
Completed
None
Original
Bob Fairall
UK
G-BXLK
Mono
385
Grass
Completed
2=94
None
Geoff Leedham
UK
G-EOFS
tri Gear
320
Grass
Completed
None found
1.9"
None found
Stephen Vestuti
UK
G-CEBV
22.00
Completed
Duncan McFadyean
UK
G-BXII
Tail Dragger
360.00
Mostly grass
Completed
none found
original
none
Karel Vranken
B
F-PKRL
Mono
60
Both
Done 2002
None found
Original
I did exactly what mod 73 prescribes before doing the lay ups.
23/07/2007 19:45
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: mod 73 results |
Richard Iddon and all
This list must be making everyone feel lots better.
I am not finished the build by a long shot but it is great to see this
list of no disbonding of the TP6!
JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz UK Kit 327 with XS mods - starting filling but no
instruments, engine etc
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:12 AM
Subject: Europa-List: mod 73 results
Tuesday 24th. 22:00 This is the full table of results I have
compiled so far. If you have sent anything and it has been missed off,
please email me directly and I will add it to the list.
Keep the info coming, it is certainly giving me more confidence in my
ship.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365.00
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20.00
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
Completed
None
original
none
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Robert Marston
UK
G-CDBX
Tri Gear
230.00
Grass
Completed
None
Original
Bob Fairall
UK
G-BXLK
Mono
385
Grass
Completed
2=94
None
Geoff Leedham
UK
G-EOFS
tri Gear
320
Grass
Completed
None found
1.9"
None found
Stephen Vestuti
UK
G-CEBV
22.00
Completed
Duncan McFadyean
UK
G-BXII
Tail Dragger
360.00
Mostly grass
Completed
none found
original
none
Karel Vranken
B
F-PKRL
Mono
60
Both
Done 2002
None found
Original
I did exactly what mod 73 prescribes before doing the lay ups.
23/07/2007 19:45
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack |
thanks Jim
Graham
jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote:
> Graham-
>
> My understanding is that the two probes are not static and that it will
> require another static port. Essentially, both are pitot but there will
> always be a pressure differential between them and that differential is
> what is used to calculate AOA. My plan is to use the static port from
> the Europa probe for both the conventional ASI and the Dynon.
>
> Jim
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Oshkosh Revelers |
I know it is not very much notice, but Bud Yerly proposed
a brief Europa owners meeting at 10am local at the Homebuilder's
Center northeast of the control tower tommorrow (Wed.) morning.
Purpose to discuss options for additional social events beyond the
Thursday Type Meeting at 4pm.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125611#125611
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Great pictures, Josok.
Iwan looks happy....... :-))))
Congratulations.
Regards Gert
OY-GDS
Den 24/07/2007 kl. 22.23 skrev josok:
> OH-XJO
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