Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 AM - Re: mod 73 results (Carl Pattinson)
2. 12:14 PM - 10672 (Niels Kock)
3. 12:46 PM - Re: 10672 (Flying Farmer)
4. 12:55 PM - Re: x tended range (thomas@scherer.com)
5. 01:22 PM - Re: mod 73 results (karelvranken)
6. 03:45 PM - Re: 10672 (Graham Singleton)
7. 04:04 PM - Re: 10672 (R.C.Harrison)
8. 07:01 PM - Re: mod 73 results (Keith Hickling)
9. 08:32 PM - Re: mod 73 results (Fred Klein)
10. 08:48 PM - Re: 10672 (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
11. 08:58 PM - Re: Europa colours (thomas@scherer.com)
12. 11:09 PM - Re: Europa colours (Raimo Toivio)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: mod 73 results |
>This list must be making everyone feel lots better.
>I am not finished the build by a long shot but it is great to see this
list of no disbonding of the TP6!
Sorry, but I must disagree !
Whilst the list is an interesting idea it proves nothing as regards
disbonding or otherwise. I would be surprised even after 6 months if the
list reveals any evidence of disbonding tailplanes - but I may yet be
proved wrong.
Put yourself in the position of someone who had discovered a poorly
manufactured tailplane -would you want the rest of the world to know
(especially if you were the builder). What would be the insurance
implications of admitting you might have a poorly constructed aircraft ?
How might this affect a future claim? Many will take the view that its
better to find out why it happened, fix it and say nothing.
Bearing in mind the implications of another failure the "survey" should
have been done properly by the regulatory bodies whose mandate is to
keep us flying safely. But maybe even they realise that even a
"thorough" survey will not guarantee to reveal all cases of poor
construction.
On the positive side, this episode has brought to everyones attention
the need to have secure tailplanes and highlighted the importance of
building to a high standard. If there were any loose tailplanes before
it is pretty certain that will no longer be the case.
You know who I am - hard hat donned !
----- Original Message -----
From: Laptop JR
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: mod 73 results
Richard Iddon and all
This list must be making everyone feel lots better.
I am not finished the build by a long shot but it is great to see this
list of no disbonding of the TP6!
JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz UK Kit 327 with XS mods - starting filling but
no instruments, engine etc
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:12 AM
Subject: Europa-List: mod 73 results
Tuesday 24th. 22:00 This is the full table of results I have
compiled so far. If you have sent anything and it has been missed off,
please email me directly and I will add it to the list.
Keep the info coming, it is certainly giving me more confidence in
my ship.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365.00
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing
(1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20.00
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been
built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
Completed
None
original
none
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Robert Marston
UK
G-CDBX
Tri Gear
230.00
Grass
Completed
None
Original
Bob Fairall
UK
G-BXLK
Mono
385
Grass
Completed
2=94
None
Geoff Leedham
UK
G-EOFS
tri Gear
320
Grass
Completed
None found
1.9"
None found
Stephen Vestuti
UK
G-CEBV
22.00
Completed
Duncan McFadyean
UK
G-BXII
Tail Dragger
360.00
Mostly grass
Completed
none found
original
none
Karel Vranken
B
F-PKRL
Mono
60
Both
Done 2002
None found
Original
I did exactly what mod 73 prescribes before doing the lay ups.
23/07/2007 19:45
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Slightly embarrassed to ask:
What,exactly is mod 10672=3F Never heard about it
(or have plum forgotten, more likely).
Niels
OY-ODA
--
Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere.
Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at f=E5 1612 spam-mails.
Betalende brugere f=E5r ikke denne besked i deres e-mails.
Hent gratis SPAMfighter her: http://www.spamfighter.com/lda
Message 3
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Niels,
This is the Club mod for the TP5 And TP6 sleeve, check out link below.
http://www.europaclub.org.uk/mods/improved_tp5_and_tp6_sleeve_retention.shtml
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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I am using 4 of the factory tanks (two in baggage area and two on front
seat.)
If they lose prime it is due to air finding its way into the system. I
found the supplied 'clicking tube-fasteners' to not be airtight enough.
I seccond the use as canisters for auto fuel.
Happy landings !
<Thomas, N81EU>
----Original Message----
From: terrys@cisco.com
Subj: RE: Europa-List: x tended range
<terrys@cisco.com>
We use the factory long ranger tank in our mono-wheel XS. I works
fairly well, although we have problems with it losing its 'prime',
requiring us to periodically reach back and pump the priming bulb a
few
times.
The extra ten gallons of gas is not only useful for extending our
range,
but allows us to carry around an extra supply of auto gas instead of
having to buy 100LL at airports we visit. We prefer not to burn 100LL
if we can help it, as it fouls the plugs, etc.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135 / N135TD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Finklea
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: Europa-List: x tended range
Does anyone use extended range fuel tanks and if so, what type and
where?
Thanks
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: mod 73 results |
Carl,
Hard doesn't mean right. OK not every one has to recognise that his
building was poor practise. We don't wait for a complete listing. At
least it may give confidence to those who were reaching a good standard.
Why do you think self build is half the price you put in the materials
on the second hand market?
My two cents...
Karel Vranken, #447 F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Pattinson
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: mod 73 results
>This list must be making everyone feel lots better.
>I am not finished the build by a long shot but it is great to see
this list of no disbonding of the TP6!
Sorry, but I must disagree !
Whilst the list is an interesting idea it proves nothing as regards
disbonding or otherwise. I would be surprised even after 6 months if the
list reveals any evidence of disbonding tailplanes - but I may yet be
proved wrong.
Put yourself in the position of someone who had discovered a poorly
manufactured tailplane -would you want the rest of the world to know
(especially if you were the builder). What would be the insurance
implications of admitting you might have a poorly constructed aircraft ?
How might this affect a future claim? Many will take the view that its
better to find out why it happened, fix it and say nothing.
Bearing in mind the implications of another failure the "survey"
should have been done properly by the regulatory bodies whose mandate is
to keep us flying safely. But maybe even they realise that even a
"thorough" survey will not guarantee to reveal all cases of poor
construction.
On the positive side, this episode has brought to everyones attention
the need to have secure tailplanes and highlighted the importance of
building to a high standard. If there were any loose tailplanes before
it is pretty certain that will no longer be the case.
You know who I am - hard hat donned !
Message 6
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|
Niels
This mod is one that most of us wish we had done, unfortunately it isn't
easily retro fitted.
Graham
Niels Kock wrote:
> Slightly embarrassed to ask:
> What,exactly is mod 10672? Never heard about it
> (or have plum forgotten, more likely).
> Niels
> OY-ODA
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere.
> Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at f 1612 spam-mails
> Betalende brugere fr ikke denne besked i deres e-mails.
> Hent en gratis SPAMfighter her <http://www.spamfighter.com/lda>.
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 7
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Hi! Neils
I patched the mod in direct . It can only be done during build and links
the two tailplane bushes.
Regards
Bob harrison.
Improved TP5 and TP6 Sleeve Retention
Ownership
Europa Club
Rickard
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/mods/background.shtml#Rickard_Rating>
Rating
Simple Mod
PFA Mod #
10672
Purpose
Reduce the risk of the torque-tube sleeves becoming disbonded from the
tailplane, and the inside of the tailplane being damaged during fitting
or storage
Description
Instructions for creating a bid tube surrounding the TP5 and TP6
torque-tube sleeves and bonding the sleeve into the TP2 foam and to the
inboard and outboard tailplane ribs
Contact
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/club/rowland_carson.shtml> Europa Club
Membership Secretary
Details
(members only)
PDF
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP5_and_TP6_Sleeve_Retent
ion.pdf>
Photos: Enlarging hole
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP_tubes/hole.jpg> ,
newspaper applied
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP_tubes/newspaper.jpg> ,
laying up
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP_tubes/layup.jpg> ,
cutting film
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP_tubes/cutfilm.jpg> ,
tube completed
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP_tubes/tube.jpg> , rib
completed
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP_tubes/rib.jpg> ,
installed
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk/secure/Club_Mods/TP_tubes/installed.jpg>
Improved TP5 and TP6 sleeve
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niels Kock
Sent: 25 July 2007 20:13
Subject: Europa-List: 10672
Slightly embarrassed to ask:
What,exactly is mod 10672? Never heard about it
(or have plum forgotten, more likely).
Niels
OY-ODA
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: mod 73 results |
Carl,
I don't think it is correct to imply that any disbonding is necessarily
a result of poor construction. It could simply be a result of the
inherent limitations of bonding between stainless steel and epoxy over
time. The original design of the pip pin recess was intended to provide
some security in the event of any disbonding, and the mod 73 provides
additional bonding but also additional security in the event of
disbonding. Comments such as yours may indeed inhibit people from
providing information which is important for us all.
So guys, please do provide accurate information, then any appropriate
mods can be designed to keep us all safe and the insurance companies
happy.
Regards,
Keith Hickling,
New Zealand,
Kit 613
Working on surface finishing and wiring, just doing mod 73, no
disbonding but no flying either!
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Pattinson
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: mod 73 results
>This list must be making everyone feel lots better.
>I am not finished the build by a long shot but it is great to see
this list of no disbonding of the TP6!
Sorry, but I must disagree !
Whilst the list is an interesting idea it proves nothing as regards
disbonding or otherwise. I would be surprised even after 6 months if the
list reveals any evidence of disbonding tailplanes - but I may yet be
proved wrong.
Put yourself in the position of someone who had discovered a poorly
manufactured tailplane -would you want the rest of the world to know
(especially if you were the builder). What would be the insurance
implications of admitting you might have a poorly constructed aircraft ?
How might this affect a future claim? Many will take the view that its
better to find out why it happened, fix it and say nothing.
Bearing in mind the implications of another failure the "survey"
should have been done properly by the regulatory bodies whose mandate is
to keep us flying safely. But maybe even they realise that even a
"thorough" survey will not guarantee to reveal all cases of poor
construction.
On the positive side, this episode has brought to everyones attention
the need to have secure tailplanes and highlighted the importance of
building to a high standard. If there were any loose tailplanes before
it is pretty certain that will no longer be the case.
You know who I am - hard hat donned !
----- Original Message -----
From: Laptop JR
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: mod 73 results
Richard Iddon and all
This list must be making everyone feel lots better.
I am not finished the build by a long shot but it is great to see
this list of no disbonding of the TP6!
JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz UK Kit 327 with XS mods - starting filling but
no instruments, engine etc
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:12 AM
Subject: Europa-List: mod 73 results
Tuesday 24th. 22:00 This is the full table of results I have
compiled so far. If you have sent anything and it has been missed off,
please email me directly and I will add it to the list.
Keep the info coming, it is certainly giving me more confidence in
my ship.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365.00
Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on
installing (1998)- no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20.00
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been
built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
Completed
None
original
none
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Robert Marston
UK
G-CDBX
Tri Gear
230.00
Grass
Completed
None
Original
Bob Fairall
UK
G-BXLK
Mono
385
Grass
Completed
2=94
None
Geoff Leedham
UK
G-EOFS
tri Gear
320
Grass
Completed
None found
1.9"
None found
Stephen Vestuti
UK
G-CEBV
22.00
Completed
Duncan McFadyean
UK
G-BXII
Tail Dragger
360.00
Mostly grass
Completed
none found
original
none
Karel Vranken
B
F-PKRL
Mono
60
Both
Done 2002
None found
Original
I did exactly what mod 73 prescribes before doing the lay
ups.
23/07/2007 19:45
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: mod 73 results |
I'll second that...and Richard, "no good deed goes unpunished"...
Fred
a buildin A194
do not archive
On Tuesday, July 24, 2007, at 03:13 PM, Laptop JR wrote:
> Richard Iddon and all
> This list must be making everyone feel lots better.
> I am not finished the build by a long shot but it is great to see this
> list of no disbonding of the TP6!
> -
> JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz UK Kit 327 with XS mods - starting filling but
> no instruments, engine etc
> -
> do not archive
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
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To All that might know,
This was done on builds with the foam cores that you covered with BID. What
about the tailplanes that came precovered, as in the quick build kits? Since
they came after the foam core, was this mod done to them? Or am I
mistaken...again?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
my Europa is half blue and shoes no signs of melting after ten years of ser
vice. She has been parked and flown in hot cuntries.
<Thomas, N81EU>
----Original Message----
From: karelvranken@hotmail.com
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Message
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Do you know the gliders color? They know why!
Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: James
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Anyone remember the factory demonstrator N914XS with the blue belly? After
two or so years in the US sun that plane needed repairs to the front fusel
age as the engine weight was sagging the footwell area of the plane while i
t was hot. Needless to say after it was reapaired it was repainted white.
As Rob H said even yellow can get a bit warmer that white, and I've spraye
d one yellow myself.
Paint em' white, or fly em' at night!
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying in warme
r climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much technical
detail, and I used the word =C2=93reflected=C2=94 where I should have used
the technically correct term =C2=93emitted.=C2=94
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct that the s
un=C2=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a =C2=93b
lack body=C2=94 is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect emitter,
which is to say it may not be reflecting solar heating but it surely emits
it. Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that surface
will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if that aircraft
is any color but white it will absorb too much energy. Any material absorb
ing energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there will be some re-radia
tion from the dark aircraft structure but that is irrelevant because the ep
oxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than Europa. He
re=C2=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web site http://w
ww.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
=C2=93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=C2=92s major airframe is constructed o
f advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under vacuu
m pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among the lightes
t, strongest, stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass system
s combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered the supreme c
omposite airframe materials of choice worldwide.=C2=94
Note that the Lancair=C2=92s composites are cured at a much higher temperat
ure than the factory and we cure the Europa structural components. The =C2
=93glass transition temperature=C2=94 is approximately the cure temperature
so softening of the composite does not begin until approximately T sub g i
s reached. For a detailed explanation to T sub g see http://en.wikipedia.o
rg/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our purposes we can consider the
glass transition temperature the softening temperature, above which the str
ucture loses a significant portion of its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white (includin
g yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual, Figure 1, Colour-
Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS Tri-Gear Manual, Is
sue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=C2=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=C2=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red Lancair 3
20
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total deep yello
w Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more careful
.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night time if
you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike =C2'
In re: dark paint
Don=C2=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the he
at reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the epoxy-fiberglass
enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure it will be OK at alt
itude but you still have to climb away from the surface. Folks flying clos
er to the Arctic Circle don=C2=92t have to worry about getting the airframe
too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a little
taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of all in an
entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft really
painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
r?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.co
m">http://forums.matronicscom
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
Wau, an another bad boy again!
In fact I found few days ago nice pics of N81EU
and it was parked in Utah Salt Lake City may I guess.
I think it is one of the hottiest place in the world. And fastest!
I noticed your Europa=C2=B4s sides also have been painted blue,
not only down side.
Maybe you fly so much that it has no time enough to melt...
Karel: people do things many times just because it is just a "habit".
Like painting gliders only white. Some times an individual decides
to do something other way. It can be a disaster or success. You know.
They call it experimental.
Thanks, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: thomas@scherer.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
my Europa is half blue and shoes no signs of melting after ten years
of service. She has been parked and flown in hot cuntries.
<Thomas, N81EU>
----Original Message----
From: karelvranken@hotmail.com
Date: Jul 24, 2007 2:38
To:
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Do you know the gliders color? They know why!
Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: James
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Anyone remember the factory demonstrator N914XS with the blue belly?
After two or so years in the US sun that plane needed repairs to the
front fuselage as the engine weight was sagging the footwell area of the
plane while it was hot. Needless to say after it was reapaired it was
repainted white. As Rob H said even yellow can get a bit warmer that
white, and I've sprayed one yellow myself.
Paint em' white, or fly em' at night!
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:02 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying
in warmer climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
technical detail, and I used the word =C2=93reflected=C2=94 where I
should have used the technically correct term =C2=93emitted.=C2=94
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct
that the sun=C2=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface.
However, a =C2=93black body=C2=94 is not only a perfect absorber but
also a perfect emitter, which is to say it may not be reflecting solar
heating but it surely emits it. Park on a black surface and the solar
energy absorbed by that surface will be re-radiated to the underside of
the aircraft, and if that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb
too much energy. Any material absorbing energy will increase in
temperature. Sure, there will be some re-radiation from the dark
aircraft structure but that is irrelevant because the epoxy-fiberglass
will already have softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than
Europa. Here=C2=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web
site http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
=C2=93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=C2=92s major airframe is
constructed of advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees
Fahrenheit under vacuum pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based
composites are among the lightest, strongest, stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or
fiberglass systems combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are
considered the supreme composite airframe materials of choice
worldwide.=C2=94
Note that the Lancair=C2=92s composites are cured at a much higher
temperature than the factory and we cure the Europa structural
components. The =C2=93glass transition temperature=C2=94 is
approximately the cure temperature so softening of the composite does
not begin until approximately T sub g is reached. For a detailed
explanation to T sub g see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our
purposes we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening
temperature, above which the structure loses a significant portion of
its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
(including yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual,
Figure 1, Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS
Tri-Gear Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=C2=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=C2=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa
floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair 320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And
like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total
deep yellow Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even
more careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night
time if you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike =C2'
In re: dark paint
Don=C2=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm
days the heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the
epoxy-fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure
it will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from the
surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle don=C2=92t have to
worry about getting the airframe too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all
stand a little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the
list of all in an entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your
aircraft really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for
this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
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