Europa-List Digest Archive

Thu 07/26/07


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:00 AM - Re: 10672 (josok)
     2. 02:05 AM - Re: 10672 (G-IANI)
     3. 07:05 AM - 10672 (Fergus Kyle)
     4. 10:18 AM - Re: 10672 (josok)
     5. 12:14 PM - Re: Europa colours (James)
     6. 12:22 PM - europa-List 10672 (Niels Kock)
     7. 12:59 PM - Airmaster Prop (Jerry Rehn)
     8. 12:59 PM - Airmaster Prop (Jerry Rehn)
     9. 02:45 PM - Re: Europa colours (karelvranken)
    10. 03:04 PM - Re: 10672 (Graham Singleton)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:00:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 10672
    From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
    It's a club mod, not a factory mod and logic dictates that the factory does not incorporate club mods. Maybe it's possible to do the mod after wards, but it will be difficult, especially the bond to the inboard rib. Maybe through enlarged pip- and drainage holes? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:05:42 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: 10672
    Mike "This was done on builds with the foam cores that you covered with BID. What about the tail planes that came pre-covered, as in the quick build kits? Since they came after the foam core, was this mod done to them" Let me try and clear this up for you. Quick build kits were foam cores that were taken to Czech and built up for you. From those I have seen they are extremely well made and are built exactly to the build manual. They do not have the mod 10672. They do vary slightly in that the TP6 bush (in one I have just done Mod 73 on) is 12mm longer than the TP6 in all the other tail planes. There are some "pre-moulded" tail planes (ie no foam core) but as far as I know only Andy Draper's (G-GBXS) and Peter Kember's (G-TOPK) have them fitted. I believe the factory has a small number of them in stock. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:05:41 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: 10672
    Well, I don't recall ever seeing this mod mentioned - and I have been a member for many years. How was this mod promulgated - only to members?, by publishing in the Flyer?, as an adjunct to a fly-in? How? I note that to acquire the mod, I needed to apply my membership particulars to enter. How can we argue for the good of all if foreign aircraft may come hurtling out of the sky? Having completed the construction of the stabs the best way I know how, it means another construction job I guess. Do the latest kits contain a cure? It appears to me that the discovery of a possible fault is on the conscience of the discoverer - and that a universal and repairable solution be made available. If it be PFA, then we should all wait for their acceptance of AAIB proof and propose a cure. Just as well because the first time I applied the stabs to the trailer, one of them captured the plastic cap from the vertical tube and it's still in there................ Happy (and successful) Landings, Ferg


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:18:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 10672
    From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
    Hi Ferg, The mod is available for all on the club's pages : http://www.europaclub.org.uk And that of course is the way it should be. It has been there probably before i ever heard of the Europa kit plane. and that's a few years ago. One of the problems with information is that there is so much of it. Life would be a lot easier if it all was in one place. Now we have a factory website, a club website, the list, the forum, and probably some 50 more or less comprehensive builders websites. At the time Steve Dunsmeir started the forum i have tried to combine as much as possible, and it turned out to be impossible. For owners and builders the offer of a free site, for each and every project still stands. Even help for setting it up, just write me or Steve. Yesterday i noticed that we are up to 8500 pictures, something for a rainy day eh? Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:14:45 PM PST US
    From: "James" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
    Subject: Europa colours
    You're lucky, but how long to you want to tempt fate? Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas@scherer.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:58 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours my Europa is half blue and shoes no signs of melting after ten years of service. She has been parked and flown in hot cuntries. <Thomas, N81EU> ----Original Message---- From: karelvranken@hotmail.com Subj: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours Do you know the gliders color? They know why! Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL ----- Original Message ----- From: James <mailto:jthursby@tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours Anyone remember the factory demonstrator N914XS with the blue belly? After two or so years in the US sun that plane needed repairs to the front fuselage as the engine weight was sagging the footwell area of the plane while it was hot. Needless to say after it was reapaired it was repainted white. As Rob H said even yellow can get a bit warmer that white, and I've sprayed one yellow myself. Paint em' white, or fly em' at night! Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:02 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying in warmer climes. In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much technical detail, and I used the word =93reflected=94 where I should have used the technically correct term =93emitted.=94 First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct that the sun=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a =93black body=94 is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect emitter, which is to say it may not be reflecting solar heating but it surely emits it. Park on a black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that surface will be re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if that aircraft is any color but white it will absorb too much energy. Any material absorbing energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there will be some re-radiation from the dark aircraft structure but that is irrelevant because the epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened. Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than Europa. Here=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web site http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html --- =93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=92s major airframe is constructed of advanced composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under vacuum pressure, these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among the lightest, strongest, stiffest materials known. The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass systems combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered the supreme composite airframe materials of choice worldwide.=94 Note that the Lancair=92s composites are cured at a much higher temperature than the factory and we cure the Europa structural components. The =93glass transition temperature=94 is approximately the cure temperature so softening of the composite does not begin until approximately T sub g is reached. For a detailed explanation to T sub g see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our purposes we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening temperature, above which the structure loses a significant portion of its strength. Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white (including yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual, Figure 1, Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS Tri-Gear Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours Rob, I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white. I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are cool because they are reflecting out much more. So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa floats!). In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red Lancair 320 and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total deep yellow Europa. I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more careful. Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice. That is the fact all the women know. That is all. "Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night time if you wanna be absolutely sure" Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob <mailto:robh@hyperion-ef.com> Housman Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules Mike ' In re: dark paint Don=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the heat reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the epoxy-fiberglass enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure it will be OK at altitude but you still have to climb away from the surface. Folks flying closer to the Arctic Circle don=92t have to worry about getting the airframe too hot. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules Raimo, Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a little taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of all in an entire country. Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft really painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this? Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop _____ <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> . http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronicscom href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List nics.com


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:22:35 PM PST US
    From: "Niels Kock" <nielskock@get2net.dk>
    Subject: europa-List 10672
    Thanks profusely, all you kind folks. It wouldn't surprise you, I'm sure, that I found the answer 2 minutes after having sent the question. Niels -- Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere. Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at f=E5 1612 spam-mails. Betalende brugere f=E5r ikke denne besked i deres e-mails. Hent gratis SPAMfighter her: http://www.spamfighter.com/lda


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:59:21 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Subject: Airmaster Prop
    Has anyone seen or have info on the supposed new prop from Airmaster? How about you folks at OSH, have you seen anything? Thanks Jerry


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:59:21 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Subject: Airmaster Prop
    Has anyone seen or have info on the supposed new prop from Airmaster? How about you folks at OSH, have you seen anything? Thanks Jerry


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:45:49 PM PST US
    From: "karelvranken" <karelvranken@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa colours
    Raimo, The only one glider with another color than white was a Finnish Pik 20 B in the World Championships in Waikiri (Australia). It was light yellow. Seems that in Suomi they experiment to reinvent the wheel even if only to attract attention. Differences in temperature for the same structure is not desirable for glass constructions. But I understand that you want to keep the belly warm. Best regards, Karel Vranken, # 447 F-PKRL. ----- Original Message ----- From: Raimo Toivio To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours Wau, an another bad boy again! In fact I found few days ago nice pics of N81EU and it was parked in Utah Salt Lake City may I guess. I think it is one of the hottiest place in the world. And fastest! I noticed your Europa=C2=B4s sides also have been painted blue, not only down side. Maybe you fly so much that it has no time enough to melt... Karel: people do things many times just because it is just a "habit". Like painting gliders only white. Some times an individual decides to do something other way. It can be a disaster or success. You know. They call it experimental. Thanks, Raimo


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:04:35 PM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: 10672
    Jos I think there are a lot of people on the forum who still don't realise how much you have done for the Club. There aer those who do though so "never give up!" Graham and fly safe! josok wrote: > > Hi Ferg, > The mod is available for all on the club's pages : > http://www.europaclub.org.uk > And that of course is the way it should be. It has been there probably before i ever heard of the Europa kit plane. and that's a few years ago. > > One of the problems with information is that there is so much of it. Life would be a lot easier if it all was in one place. Now we have a factory website, a club website, the list, the forum, and probably some 50 more or less comprehensive builders websites. At the time Steve Dunsmeir started the forum i have tried to combine as much as possible, and it turned out to be impossible. For owners and builders the offer of a free site, for each and every project still stands. Even help for setting it up, just write me or Steve. Yesterday i noticed that we are up to 8500 pictures, something for a rainy day eh? > > Kind Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005




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