Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:00 AM - Re: 10672 (josok)
2. 02:05 AM - Re: 10672 (G-IANI)
3. 07:05 AM - 10672 (Fergus Kyle)
4. 10:18 AM - Re: 10672 (josok)
5. 12:14 PM - Re: Europa colours (James)
6. 12:22 PM - europa-List 10672 (Niels Kock)
7. 12:59 PM - Airmaster Prop (Jerry Rehn)
8. 12:59 PM - Airmaster Prop (Jerry Rehn)
9. 02:45 PM - Re: Europa colours (karelvranken)
10. 03:04 PM - Re: 10672 (Graham Singleton)
Message 1
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It's a club mod, not a factory mod and logic dictates that the factory does not
incorporate club mods.
Maybe it's possible to do the mod after wards, but it will be difficult, especially
the bond to the inboard rib. Maybe through enlarged pip- and drainage holes?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
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Mike
"This was done on builds with the foam cores that you covered with BID.
What about the tail planes that came pre-covered, as in the quick build
kits? Since they came after the foam core, was this mod done to them"
Let me try and clear this up for you.
Quick build kits were foam cores that were taken to Czech and built up
for you. From those I have seen they are extremely well made and are
built exactly to the build manual. They do not have the mod 10672.
They do vary slightly in that the TP6 bush (in one I have just done Mod
73 on) is 12mm longer than the TP6 in all the other tail planes.
There are some "pre-moulded" tail planes (ie no foam core) but as far as
I know only Andy Draper's (G-GBXS) and Peter Kember's (G-TOPK) have them
fitted. I believe the factory has a small number of them in stock.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 3
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Well, I don't recall ever seeing this mod mentioned - and I have
been a member for many years. How was this mod promulgated - only to
members?, by publishing in the Flyer?, as an adjunct to a fly-in? How? I
note that to acquire the mod, I needed to apply my membership particulars to
enter. How can we argue for the good of all if foreign aircraft may come
hurtling out of the sky?
Having completed the construction of the stabs the best way I know
how, it means another construction job I guess. Do the latest kits contain a
cure?
It appears to me that the discovery of a possible fault is on the
conscience of the discoverer - and that a universal and repairable solution
be made available. If it be PFA, then we should all wait for their
acceptance of AAIB proof and propose a cure.
Just as well because the first time I applied the stabs to the
trailer, one of them captured the plastic cap from the vertical tube and
it's still in there................
Happy (and successful) Landings,
Ferg
Message 4
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Hi Ferg,
The mod is available for all on the club's pages :
http://www.europaclub.org.uk
And that of course is the way it should be. It has been there probably before i
ever heard of the Europa kit plane. and that's a few years ago.
One of the problems with information is that there is so much of it. Life would
be a lot easier if it all was in one place. Now we have a factory website, a
club website, the list, the forum, and probably some 50 more or less comprehensive
builders websites. At the time Steve Dunsmeir started the forum i have tried
to combine as much as possible, and it turned out to be impossible. For owners
and builders the offer of a free site, for each and every project still stands.
Even help for setting it up, just write me or Steve. Yesterday i noticed
that we are up to 8500 pictures, something for a rainy day eh?
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 5
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You're lucky, but how long to you want to tempt fate?
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
thomas@scherer.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
my Europa is half blue and shoes no signs of melting after ten years of
service. She has been parked and flown in hot cuntries.
<Thomas, N81EU>
----Original Message----
From: karelvranken@hotmail.com
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Do you know the gliders color? They know why!
Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: James <mailto:jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Anyone remember the factory demonstrator N914XS with the blue belly?
After
two or so years in the US sun that plane needed repairs to the front
fuselage as the engine weight was sagging the footwell area of the plane
while it was hot. Needless to say after it was reapaired it was
repainted
white. As Rob H said even yellow can get a bit warmer that white, and
I've
sprayed one yellow myself.
Paint em' white, or fly em' at night!
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa colours
Sorry Raimo, but this is dangerous thinking for those of us flying in
warmer
climes.
In my previous post I deliberately avoided getting into too much
technical
detail, and I used the word =93reflected=94 where I should have used the
technically correct term =93emitted.=94
First, you seem to misunderstand heat transfer. You are correct that
the
sun=92s energy is not reflected from a black surface. However, a
=93black body=94
is not only a perfect absorber but also a perfect emitter, which is to
say
it may not be reflecting solar heating but it surely emits it. Park on
a
black surface and the solar energy absorbed by that surface will be
re-radiated to the underside of the aircraft, and if that aircraft is
any
color but white it will absorb too much energy. Any material absorbing
energy will increase in temperature. Sure, there will be some
re-radiation
from the dark aircraft structure but that is irrelevant because the
epoxy-fiberglass will already have softened.
Second, the Lancair aircraft all use a different composite than Europa.
Here=92s how Lancair describes their composites on their web site
http://www.lancair.com/Main/legacy.html ---
=93Like every Lancair, the Legacy=92s major airframe is constructed of
advanced
composite materials. Cured at 270 degrees Fahrenheit under vacuum
pressure,
these NASA tested, epoxy based composites are among the lightest,
strongest,
stiffest materials known.
The high-temperature, pre-impregnated carbon fiber and/or fiberglass
systems
combined with Nomex/honeycomb core materials are considered the supreme
composite airframe materials of choice worldwide.=94
Note that the Lancair=92s composites are cured at a much higher
temperature
than the factory and we cure the Europa structural components. The
=93glass
transition temperature=94 is approximately the cure temperature so
softening
of the composite does not begin until approximately T sub g is reached.
For
a detailed explanation to T sub g see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition_temperature For our
purposes
we can consider the glass transition temperature the softening
temperature,
above which the structure loses a significant portion of its strength.
Anyone contemplating painting a Europa any color other than white
(including
yellow) should review the chart in the Builders Manual, Figure 1,
Colour-Temperature Relationship, on page 36-1 of the Europa XS Tri-Gear
Manual, Issue 1, dated 30 May 1998.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Rob,
I am not going to encourage anybody to paint their
Europa=B4s undersides any colour but white. I still well
remember Manual=B4s words: all the Europas must be white.
I still have to point out the energy of the sun is NOT
reflecting out of the black asphalt IMHO. That is why
it is hot when a sunny day. It absorbs allmost all the heat
energy and nothing is reflecting out. White surfaces are
cool because they are reflecting out much more.
So it could be more dangerous to keep it on the snow covered
surface while a sunny day (or on white sand or water w Europa floats!).
In Sweden there has been 10 years a wonderful full colour mid red
Lancair
320
and no composite problems at all. Register # is SE-XOP (!). And like
we all know in South America (Columbia?) there is flying a total deep
yellow
Europa.
I think - with other colour as white - it is better to be even more
careful.
Beauty is a good reason for some extra work and some sacrifice.
That is the fact all the women know. That is all.
"Keep your full matt black Europa in the hangar and fly only night time
if
you wanna be absolutely sure"
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob <mailto:robh@hyperion-ef.com> Housman
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa rules
Mike '
In re: dark paint
Don=92t even think about it. Where we live and fly, on warm days the
heat
reflected off the ramp will be sufficient to soften the epoxy-fiberglass
enough to reduce the strength of the structure. Sure it will be OK at
altitude but you still have to climb away from the surface. Folks
flying
closer to the Arctic Circle don=92t have to worry about getting the
airframe
too hot.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa rules
Raimo,
Congratulations to you and your aircraft. I think we can all stand a
little
taller and more proud when one of "our" planes tops the list of all in
an
entire country.
Do you have any pix of you panel? Is the underside of your aircraft
really
painted dark? Black, blue, brown? Any reasoning for this?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>
.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronicscom
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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nics.com
Message 6
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Subject: | europa-List 10672 |
Thanks profusely, all you kind folks.
It wouldn't surprise you, I'm sure, that I found the answer 2 minutes after
having sent the question.
Niels
--
Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere.
Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at f=E5 1612 spam-mails.
Betalende brugere f=E5r ikke denne besked i deres e-mails.
Hent gratis SPAMfighter her: http://www.spamfighter.com/lda
Message 7
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Has anyone seen or have info on the supposed new prop from Airmaster? How
about you folks at OSH, have you seen anything? Thanks
Jerry
Message 8
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Has anyone seen or have info on the supposed new prop from Airmaster? How
about you folks at OSH, have you seen anything? Thanks
Jerry
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Europa colours |
Raimo,
The only one glider with another color than white was a Finnish Pik 20 B
in the World Championships in Waikiri (Australia). It was light yellow.
Seems that in Suomi they experiment to reinvent the wheel even if only
to attract attention. Differences in temperature for the same structure
is not desirable for glass constructions. But I understand that you want
to keep the belly warm.
Best regards,
Karel Vranken, # 447 F-PKRL.
----- Original Message -----
From: Raimo Toivio
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa colours
Wau, an another bad boy again!
In fact I found few days ago nice pics of N81EU
and it was parked in Utah Salt Lake City may I guess.
I think it is one of the hottiest place in the world. And fastest!
I noticed your Europa=C2=B4s sides also have been painted blue,
not only down side.
Maybe you fly so much that it has no time enough to melt...
Karel: people do things many times just because it is just a "habit".
Like painting gliders only white. Some times an individual decides
to do something other way. It can be a disaster or success. You know.
They call it experimental.
Thanks, Raimo
Message 10
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Jos
I think there are a lot of people on the forum who still don't realise
how much you have done for the Club. There aer those who do though so
"never give up!"
Graham
and fly safe!
josok wrote:
>
> Hi Ferg,
> The mod is available for all on the club's pages :
> http://www.europaclub.org.uk
> And that of course is the way it should be. It has been there probably before
i ever heard of the Europa kit plane. and that's a few years ago.
>
> One of the problems with information is that there is so much of it. Life would
be a lot easier if it all was in one place. Now we have a factory website,
a club website, the list, the forum, and probably some 50 more or less comprehensive
builders websites. At the time Steve Dunsmeir started the forum i have
tried to combine as much as possible, and it turned out to be impossible. For
owners and builders the offer of a free site, for each and every project still
stands. Even help for setting it up, just write me or Steve. Yesterday i noticed
that we are up to 8500 pictures, something for a rainy day eh?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
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