Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:36 AM - Re: 10672 (josok)
2. 02:26 AM - Re: 10672 (Philip Lincoln)
3. 07:35 AM - 10672 (Fergus Kyle)
4. 08:20 AM - anr headsets (josok)
5. 09:20 AM - Fuel gauge (David.Corbett)
6. 09:42 AM - Re: anr headsets (William Harrison)
7. 11:06 AM - Re: anr headsets (Richard Holder)
8. 11:06 AM - Re: anr headsets (Richard Holder)
9. 11:07 AM - Pip pins (Richard Holder)
10. 11:10 AM - Re: 10672 (Jeremy Davey)
11. 11:10 AM - Europa Mod 74 (David.Corbett)
12. 11:16 AM - Europa accident G-HOFC - PFA comment (David.Corbett)
13. 11:24 AM - Mod 73 results (Richard Iddon)
14. 11:36 AM - Re: anr headsets (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
15. 12:08 PM - Re: anr headsets (Carl Pattinson)
16. 12:41 PM - Re: anr headsets (Richard Holder)
17. 01:31 PM - Re: anr headsets (josok)
18. 01:35 PM - europa list mod 74 (philip george)
19. 01:58 PM - Mod 74 (David.Corbett)
20. 02:09 PM - Re: Mod 74 (Richard Holder)
21. 02:26 PM - Re: Mod 74 (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
22. 02:37 PM - Re: europa list mod 74 (Carl Pattinson)
23. 02:50 PM - Re: Mod 74 (Carl Pattinson)
24. 03:04 PM - Re: anr headsets (Jeremy Davey)
25. 03:50 PM - europa list mod 74 (Richard Holder)
26. 04:06 PM - Re: Europa list mod 74 (houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk)
27. 04:31 PM - Re: anr headsets (Rman)
28. 10:59 PM - Re: anr headsets (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
Message 1
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Graham,
It's the other way around. I feel this community has helped me with the build,
the thinking aound the built, and most important kept me going at the moments
i thought about dropping the whole thing. Now that it's really flying and very
good, all that seems a long way ago. But, if i can get my hands on any other
build to help, i will travel and do the same work again with pleasure. But hey,
thats what you are doing as well eh?
Kind regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
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The first I heard about it was on this mailing list back in 2000 (maybe even
1999?). I think the complete text/description may have been posted. I'm not
even sure it was an "officially approved PFA mod" with number and all back
then (maybe wrong here...). I incorporated it on or about July 2000 (kit
426, Tri-Gear) and even then was glad I did - the whole assembly just seems
more "solid", which, of course, it is.
Still building (every now-and-then...),
Philip (Stockholm, Sweden)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Subject: Europa-List: 10672
>
>Well, I don't recall ever seeing this mod mentioned - and I have
>been a member for many years. How was this mod promulgated - only to
>members?, by publishing in the Flyer?, as an adjunct to a fly-in? How? I
>note that to acquire the mod, I needed to apply my membership particulars
>to
>enter. How can we argue for the good of all if foreign aircraft may come
>hurtling out of the sky?
>Having completed the construction of the stabs the best way I know
>how, it means another construction job I guess. Do the latest kits contain
>a
>cure?
>It appears to me that the discovery of a possible fault is on the
>conscience of the discoverer - and that a universal and repairable solution
>be made available. If it be PFA, then we should all wait for their
>acceptance of AAIB proof and propose a cure.
> Just as well because the first time I applied the stabs to the
>trailer, one of them captured the plastic cap from the vertical tube and
>it's still in there................
>Happy (and successful) Landings,
>Ferg
>
_________________________________________________________________
Message 3
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"Jos
I think there are a lot of people on the forum who still don't realise
how much you have done for the Club. There aer those who do though so
"never give up!"
Graham
and fly safe!"
Amen to that.
My diatribe wasn't meant to complain about anyone - just amazement that I
had missed a mod. Probably one day off. Perhaps I should monitor the PFA
list if that's possible.
Jos, thank you!
Ferg
Message 4
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If there is still somebody around and not redoing tail planes or visiting Oshkosh:
While i have a pair of very well rated David Clark headsets, my test pilot suggested
that ANR would be better. I tend to agree, because these passive sets are
probably tuned to reduce the noise of Lycosauruses and the like. So, if you
have experienced the one and the other, what's your opinion? I know already which
is the most expensive one. They have an offer for CFI's, which they no doubt
charge back on the end user. Don't have to say that i hate that kind of "marketing"
Smells of a bribe. So is there a good, less expensive alternative?
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 5
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My Avalec fuel gauge sender unit has packed up after 6 years use. Ed Jelonek
says that he will build me a new one; he no longer does much with aircraft,
concentrating now on motor racing.
What alternative fuel gauges are around (in UK) that I could install in the
removable tank top plate, and which are easy to calibrate without having to
get into the back of the panel?
David
G-BZAM - flying after Mod 73, awaiting Mod 74 details.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
Hello Jos
I have used three types of anr. My experience is that you get what
you pay for. I used a cheapo "Pilot" set for several years. They were
OK, they worked reasonably well but they were not robust: the strain
relief on the cable was inadequate and a solder joint failed at an
"inconvenient" time; also, one of the jack plugs fractured when it
took a small knock. I also used an ebay bargain second hand Peltor
set which I believe was only marketed in the US. That was rubbish on
active noise reduction although like all Peltors it has good passive
noise reduction and is very tough. I decided to stop messing around,
and so I bought a Bose set 2 years ago. Astonishingly expensive but
the best of the three I've used. The passive nr on it is minimal but
the active nr is terrific. Fortunately, my wife never saw the invoice...
One other thought. I have some special earphones for use on a
motorbike (iPod, satnav etc). These are moulded to the shape of the
individual customer's ear so they allow almost zero ambient noise in
and therefore enable you to hear with the sound volume at quite a low
level. The supplier (Ultimate Hearing) told me they could make a set
if I wanted with the right impedence and the right jack plug to work
in an aircraft - it might make a useful experiment although it would
need an additional mike, of course.
Best wishes
Willie
On 27 Jul 2007, at 16:16, josok wrote:
>
> If there is still somebody around and not redoing tail planes or
> visiting Oshkosh:
>
> While i have a pair of very well rated David Clark headsets, my
> test pilot suggested that ANR would be better. I tend to agree,
> because these passive sets are probably tuned to reduce the noise
> of Lycosauruses and the like. So, if you have experienced the one
> and the other, what's your opinion? I know already which is the
> most expensive one. They have an offer for CFI's, which they no
> doubt charge back on the end user. Don't have to say that i hate
> that kind of "marketing" Smells of a bribe. So is there a good,
> less expensive alternative?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
The other picture
Richard Holder
G-OWWW High Cross
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
Second attempt - one picture in each mail !
Dear Jos and all Europaphiles
Wow an opportunity to push what I do ! Sometimes.
So long as you don't have H20-10 (H10-20 is OK)
I convert headsets to ANR using a kit from Headsets Inc in
the US. I have done quite a few.
Two ways of doing it (actually also others) as per the
pictures
attached.
I don't do it quite the way they suggest but my method is
an improvement !
In my Europa I do not have jack sockets. I have 5 pin XLR
sockets and my headsets are converted with the ANR modules
and they take their power from the XLR socket. I have an
adapter if someone wants to use their own non-ANR-non-XLR
headset.
I could take pictures.
If you want to retain the jacks then I could provide two
sockets-with-9v-regulator-chip for installation in your
plane. This is shown with the new lead in the "AMP_2"
image, and you would get battery boxes to go with the
headset if you took it to another plane.
Or I could sell you the kit(s) and cables, it isn't rocket
science !
eMail me direct for further details
The ANR effect is not as good as Bose but it is 1/4 of the
price, and avoids having yet another headset or two
stuffed in a drawer. It is, however, as good as, or even
better than the DC ANR set.
Richard Holder
G-OWWW High Cross, ungrounded as of today (for 10 hours !)
josok wrote:
> <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
> If there is still somebody around and not redoing tail
> planes or visiting Oshkosh:
>
> While i have a pair of very well rated David Clark
> headsets, my test pilot suggested that ANR would be
> better. I tend to agree, because these passive sets are
> probably tuned to reduce the noise of Lycosauruses and
> the like. So, if you have experienced the one and the
> other, what's your opinion? I know already which is the
> most expensive one. They have an offer for CFI's, which
> they no doubt charge back on the end user. Don't have
> to say that i hate that kind of "marketing" Smells of a
> bribe. So is there a good, less expensive alternative?
Message 9
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To all those who ordered pip pins and sent me envelopes
- they are on their way to you ! Please let me know when
they arrive.
They fitted OK on mine !
Richard Holder
G-OWWW High Cross, ungrounded as of today (for 10 hours !)
Message 10
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Graham,
Hopefully Jos' much-deserved inaugural award of the Cliff and Betty Shaw
Memorial Cup by the Club will have changed that in at least the eyes of
those who read Europa Flyer!
That Jos and Cliff were both great users of the internet to the benefit of
the entire community makes it a particularly apposite award.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: 26 July 2007 14:57
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 10672
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Jos
I think there are a lot of people on the forum who still don't realise
how much you have done for the Club. There aer those who do though so
"never give up!"
Graham
and fly safe!
josok wrote:
>
> Hi Ferg,
> The mod is available for all on the club's pages :
> http://www.europaclub.org.uk
> And that of course is the way it should be. It has been there probably
before i ever heard of the Europa kit plane. and that's a few years ago.
>
> One of the problems with information is that there is so much of it. Life
would be a lot easier if it all was in one place. Now we have a factory
website, a club website, the list, the forum, and probably some 50 more or
less comprehensive builders websites. At the time Steve Dunsmeir started the
forum i have tried to combine as much as possible, and it turned out to be
impossible. For owners and builders the offer of a free site, for each and
every project still stands. Even help for setting it up, just write me or
Steve. Yesterday i noticed that we are up to 8500 pictures, something for a
rainy day eh?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 11
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Europhiles everywhere - Francis Donaldson has asked me to advise you all
that Europa Mod 74 is now on the Europa 2004 Ltd website, under Technical
and then Modifications. There is a very strict time limit - within 10 hours
from 1 August 2007. Mod 74 affects classic aircraft with foam-filled wings;
those classic aircraft that do not already have Mod 52 (the weight increase
mod) will be required to fit Mod 52 as part of Mod 74.
As it is Friday evening here, I cannot check with Roger Bull to find out
what the lead time is going to be for the parts; but I am copying this to
him, and hope that, in order to save every one of us ringing him, he will
put a short statement on this forum to advise likely delivery availability.
I will also be forwarding to the forum, within a few minutes, a copy of an
e-mail written by Francis to Ted Gladstone setting out the PFA's view of the
accident sequence; this is not a definitive account - that can only be
issued by UK AAIB. However, Francis's e-mail does give the reasoning behind
the decisions to issue the MPD's and now the Mods.
David, on behalf of PFA EC and Europa Club
G-BZAM
Message 12
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| Subject: | Europa accident G-HOFC - PFA comment |
Please see below Francis Donaldson's e-mail to Ted Gladstone, as advised in
my e-mail to the forum a few minutes ago.
In the interest of space, I have deleted Alan Simmons' agreement to the
issue of this e-mail.
David
_____
From: Francis Donaldson [mailto:francis.donaldson@pfa.org.uk]
Sent: 27 July 2007 10:33
Cc: Andy Draper
Subject: RE: Europa statement
Dear Alan
Following our discussion I have decided not to issue a PFA statement about
the Europa accident, for the reasons you suggested. However instead I would
like your agreement to sending the e-mail below to individuals who e-mail us
speculating about the accident sequence. Is this OK ?
Francis Donaldson
Dear Ted
Thanks for the copy e-mail. The reason why the rear wing pin pulled out of
the right wing was almost certainly because the construction of the hard
point in the root rib was defective, the laminations of the plate were
staggered so that the threaded hole was not through the middle of the metal
plates as designed. It was near the edge of the first one and penetrating
the edge of the underneath ones, ie only the first laminate would have been
able to carry significant load. This is why the outer laminate ripped out.
I think that release of the rear wing attachment allowed the right wing to
swing forward and split the right wing spar, causing the right wing to break
up and tearing the pins out retaining the other wing in the process. The
massive jerk caused by the wing failure would explain what moved the right
tailplane off its pitch pins and allow it to flutter and depart, and the
left tailplane could have fluttered and then departed because in moving
outboard, the right tailplane had dragged the anti-balance tab operating
tee-bar off the pin on the left tailplane's anti-balance tab.
Had the main wing pins failed, there would not have been the massive damage
to the right wing which occurred, as failure of the pin would immediately
off-load the wings.
Both crew were found with the cockpit wreckage, there was no question of
either falling out of the aircraft in flight.
We are taking what we see as appropriate steps to allow the Europa fleet to
carry on flying, with a acceptable level of safety. If we wait for the AAIB
report to be published in full, we would have to ground the fleet meanwhile,
which could last many months.
The work on the root pin attachment does not involve a huge amount of work
or a massive hole in the skin, Andy has managed to devise a keyhole surgery
approach. It has been tried on a sample Europa and went OK.
Please note that the above is our present line of thought about the accident
sequence but is not yet definitive, that will be the prerogative of the AAIB
and their final report. There is further testing to be done to test the
theory, which we are helping AAIB to prepare. Please do not broadcast the
above on the Europa net or elsewhere as it would not be appropriate to
promulgate the present theory in advance of the AAIB report.
Best regards
Francis Donaldson
Message 13
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All results to date below. I had a problem with my spreadsheet so have
saved the results as a Word table. Hope everyone can read it OK now. If
I have missed anyone off, please send me your results again off forum
and I will add them in.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS.
Name
Country
Reg
Type
Hours
Landing sfc.
Mod 73 progress
Disbonding of TP6
Pip Pins
Problems found
Richard Iddon
UK
G-RIXS
Tri gear
365
Mainly Tarmac
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Steve Pitt
UK
G-SMDH
Tri gear
46
Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Ron Jones
UK
G-RJWX
Mono
320
Both
Completed
None found
Original
None
Tim Ward
NZ
ZK-TIM
Mono
Not done
None found
Original
Very slight movement in starboard TP12. Present on installing (1998)-
no worse
Danny Shepherd
UK
G-CERI
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
Pete Jeffers
UK
G-BVIZ
Tri Gear
Completed
None found
2in.
well within limits
Brian Davies
UK
G-DDBD
Tri Gear
20
mixed
Completed
None found
1.9in.
none
Graham Drake
UK
G-CCOV
Mono
60
Mostly Hard
Completed
None found
2in.
Sarah Attubato
UK
G-BWDP
Mono
N/A
N/A
Completed
None found
2in.
These are new replacement tailplanes that had already been built
David Watts
UK
G-BXDY
Mono
1250
Mostly Grass
Completed
None found
2in.
Nigel Charles
UK
G-MIME
Mono
Completed
None found
2in.
nothing major
Mike Clews
UK
G-OMIK
Mono
500
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
nothing major
Arthur Orchard
uk
G-JOST
Tri Gear
17.5 hrs
Tar/Mac
completed
none found
original
nothing found
Colin Smallwood
UK
G-DEBR
Tri Gear
Tarmac
W.I.P
None found
2in
TP5 Port,Moved .25" Outboard
Alasdair Milne
UK
G-CBYN
Tri Gear
470
Grass
Completed
None
original
none
Trev Pond
UK
G-LINN
Tri Gear
Grass
Completed
None found
Original
none
Robert Marston
UK
G-CDBX
Tri Gear
230
Grass
Completed
None
Original
Bob Fairall
UK
G-BXLK
Mono
385
Grass
Completed
2=94
None
Geoff Leedham
UK
G-EOFS
tri Gear
320
Grass
Completed
None found
1.9"
None found
Stephen Vestuti
UK
G-CEBV
Tri Gear
22
Tarmac
Completed
Duncan McFadyean
UK
G-BXII
Tail Dragger
360
Mostly grass
Completed
none found
original
none
Karel Vranken
B
F-PKRL
Mono
60
Both
Done 2002
None found
Original
I did exactly what mod 73 prescribes before doing the lay ups.
Richard Holder
UK
G-OWWW
Tri Gear Classic
257
70% Grass
Completed
Port side disbonded
2in.
Some movement between left hand TP12 and TP4 ' within limits.
Bob Harrison
UK
G-PTAG
Tri Gear
600
Completed
None
Original
Torque tube clamps fitted.
27/07/2007 06:08
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
Jos-
There was an excellent article in Kitplanes about a year ago comparing them all.
They rated one of the Telex sets as best bang for the buck. I tried the set
on at Lakelnad last year and liked if very much. I don't remember the model,
but I'm sure someone at Telex could help. Also, Kitplanes will reprint an article
for a fee. You may want to e-mail them and see if you can get a reprint.
My magazine is gone.
Jim Puglise
BTW - Got that hinge off with no problem using a solering iron and razor blade.
Thnks !
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
> If there is still somebody around and not redoing tail planes or visiting
> Oshkosh:
>
> While i have a pair of very well rated David Clark headsets, my test pilot
> suggested that ANR would be better. I tend to agree, because these passive sets
> are probably tuned to reduce the noise of Lycosauruses and the like. So, if you
> have experienced the one and the other, what's your opinion? I know already
> which is the most expensive one. They have an offer for CFI's, which they no
> doubt charge back on the end user. Don't have to say that i hate that kind of
> "marketing" Smells of a bribe. So is there a good, less expensive alternative?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Jos-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There was an excellent article in Kitplanes about a year ago comparing them
all. They rated one of the Telex sets as best bang for the buck.
I tried the set on at Lakelnad last year and liked if very much. I don't
remember the model, but I'm sure someone at Telex could help. Also, Kitplanes
will reprint an article for a fee. You may want to e-mail them and
see if you can get a reprint. My magazine is gone.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW - Got that hinge off with no problem using a solering iron and razor blade.
Thnks ! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
<BR><BR>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok"
<JOSOK-E@UKOLO.FI><BR>> <BR>> If there is still somebody around and not
redoing tail planes or visiting <BR>> Oshkosh: <BR>> <BR>> While i
have a pair of very well rated David Clark headsets, my test pilot <BR>> suggested
that ANR would be better. I tend to agree, because these passive sets
<BR>> are probably tuned to reduce the noise of Lycosauruses and the like.
So, if you <BR>> have experienced the one and the other, what's your opinion?
I know already <BR>> which is the most expensive one. They have an offer
for CFI's, which they no <BR>> doubt charge back on the end user. Don't have
to say that i hate that kind of <BR>> "marketing" Smells of a bribe. So
is there a good, less expensive alternative? <BR>>
<BR>&
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
ANR Headsets
A word of warning on the use of ANR headsets. If your intercom setup dosent
include squelch on the mic circuit it can make the best headsets appear
worse than useless. Our intercom was built into the ICOM A2000 radio and
these do not have any microphone squelch.
We initially used a set of cheapo "Skyforce" ANR headsets and to be honest
they werent up to much (or so we thought).
So we upgraded to a middle of the range Sennheiser HMEC300 and there was
little or no improvement - that is till we realised the mics were picking up
the cockpit noise and feeding it back through the intercom. We have now
fitted a separate (portable) intercom with separate squelch control and the
reduction in noise levels is considerable.
If you arent sure if the mics are feeding excessive noise into the amplifier
circuit try muffling them with a towel and seeing what difference this makes
to incoming transmissions (or simply to the ambient noise in the headsets) -
in flight of course.
Im not saying dont buy ANR as I would opt for them every time. Given the
choice I would have opted for the BOSE ones it was a hell of a job
persuading Mrs P that 350 (each) was worth spending never mind 600 !!!
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
BTW - IMHO noise cancelling microphones dont seem to cancel out very much
noise - maybe someone with a superior technical understanding might
volunteer an explanation.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Harrison" <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: anr headsets
> <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
>
> Hello Jos
>
> I have used three types of anr. My experience is that you get what you
> pay for. I used a cheapo "Pilot" set for several years. They were OK,
> they worked reasonably well but they were not robust: the strain relief
> on the cable was inadequate and a solder joint failed at an
> "inconvenient" time; also, one of the jack plugs fractured when it took a
> small knock. I also used an ebay bargain second hand Peltor set which I
> believe was only marketed in the US. That was rubbish on active noise
> reduction although like all Peltors it has good passive noise reduction
> and is very tough. I decided to stop messing around, and so I bought a
> Bose set 2 years ago. Astonishingly expensive but the best of the three
> I've used. The passive nr on it is minimal but the active nr is terrific.
> Fortunately, my wife never saw the invoice...
>
> One other thought. I have some special earphones for use on a motorbike
> (iPod, satnav etc). These are moulded to the shape of the individual
> customer's ear so they allow almost zero ambient noise in and therefore
> enable you to hear with the sound volume at quite a low level. The
> supplier (Ultimate Hearing) told me they could make a set if I wanted
> with the right impedence and the right jack plug to work in an aircraft -
> it might make a useful experiment although it would need an additional
> mike, of course.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Willie
>
>
> On 27 Jul 2007, at 16:16, josok wrote:
>
>>
>> If there is still somebody around and not redoing tail planes or
>> visiting Oshkosh:
>>
>> While i have a pair of very well rated David Clark headsets, my test
>> pilot suggested that ANR would be better. I tend to agree, because these
>> passive sets are probably tuned to reduce the noise of Lycosauruses and
>> the like. So, if you have experienced the one and the other, what's your
>> opinion? I know already which is the most expensive one. They have an
>> offer for CFI's, which they no doubt charge back on the end user. Don't
>> have to say that i hate that kind of "marketing" Smells of a bribe. So
>> is there a good, less expensive alternative?
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Jos Okhuijsen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
Carl Pattinson wrote:
> Our intercom was built into the ICOM A2000 radio and
> these do not have any microphone squelch.
Any intercom within a radio with only one microphone
circuit (rather than one per headset) is not a proper
intercom. Any paralleling of mikes will cause problems if
you parallel a DC set (low impedance) with almost anything
else (high impedance).
And as Carl says a lack of squelch also makes it not much
use as an intercom.
So always use a separate intercom.
Richard Holder who hasn't done any fibreglassing but
certainly knows about radios, headsets. electrics and ANR :-)
G-OWWW High Cross
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
Hi Richard,
If it's possible to equip my DC's 20-10 with ANR, i will be very happy. But please
explain a bit how it's working, is there a mike on the box or on the headphone(s)
to pick up the sound to be neutralized? How much work is involved in the
change-over? Btw, i have an Xcom radio, with a built in proper intercom, with
good intercom squelch.
Did a spectrum analysis on a pair of great sounding Bose speakers once, to discover
that the frequency response was not even close. This was after complaints
from a customer, a violin builder. But that was 20 years ago.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 18
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| Subject: | europa list mod 74 |
Am i missing something ? Why do we have to go thru a pristine bottom wing
skin to do this mod
(longer pin with nut and washer ) when the wing rear close out is the same
distance away from the
pin 65mm aprox. this would result in far less disruption of the structure
and the resulting repair to
the close out would only be two layers of bid and no filler or paint
required for the repair .Just my
thoughts. Philip George G-EORJ classic mono wheel
_________________________________________________________________
Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge
http://www.backofmyhand.com
Message 19
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Further to earlier e-mails this evening, Richard Holder has drawn my
attention to Tech Talk on the factory website - which gives an indication of
price and delivery date for the kits.
David
Message 20
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David.Corbett wrote:
> Further to earlier e-mails this evening, Richard Holder
> has drawn my attention to Tech Talk on the factory
> website - which gives an indication of price and
> delivery date for the kits.
Yup.
FORTY POUNDS plus VAT plus carriage for
2 x pins
2 x M12 Nylocs
2 x M12 "thick" washers
The Nylocs are 8 a hundred from RS ! Washers unlikely to
be more !
I won't say what I think of this !
Richard
Message 21
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Conversely, the addition of 49 (=89) for the inclusion of the Mod 52 kit
seems remarkably good value for money; unless there is a '2' missing off the
front of that number (=289).
So I've ordered mine already: offer + acceptance = binding contract!
Duncan McF
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 74
>
> David.Corbett wrote:
>
>> Further to earlier e-mails this evening, Richard Holder
>> has drawn my attention to Tech Talk on the factory
>> website - which gives an indication of price and
>> delivery date for the kits.
>
> Yup.
>
> FORTY POUNDS plus VAT plus carriage for
>
> 2 x pins
> 2 x M12 Nylocs
> 2 x M12 "thick" washers
>
> The Nylocs are 8 a hundred from RS ! Washers unlikely to
> be more !
>
> I won't say what I think of this !
>
> Richard
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: europa list mod 74 |
I have seen the work on the only Europa which has undergone Mod 74 courtesy
Andy Draper. We asked the same question and the feeling is there isnt enough
room to get a spanner around the securing nut to tighten it - its a lot
easier through the wing underside.
The access hole is about 1.5" diameter and the repair afterwards extends to
about 9" square. As its on the underside it has little effect on the
aerodynamics of the wing and is easy to conceal.
My understanding is the PFA will consider an alternative means of access and
someone is looking into this.
One aspect of Mod 74 (yet to be decided) is that it may incorporate a tie
bar similar to the weight increase mod - or the present weight increase mod
may become mandatory. There is a question mark over the effectiveness of the
top hat stiffeners currently specified in the older Europas (without tie
bars).
----- Original Message -----
From: "philip george" <philipgeorge347@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:34 PM
Subject: Europa-List: europa list mod 74
> <philipgeorge347@hotmail.com>
>
> Am i missing something ? Why do we have to go thru a pristine bottom wing
> skin to do this mod
>
> (longer pin with nut and washer ) when the wing rear close out is the same
> distance away from the
>
> pin 65mm aprox. this would result in far less disruption of the structure
> and the resulting repair to
>
> the close out would only be two layers of bid and no filler or paint
> required for the repair .Just my
>
> thoughts. Philip George G-EORJ classic mono wheel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local
> knowledge http://www.backofmyhand.com
>
>
>
Message 23
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I wont deny that Europa spares are expensive but they are cheap by
commercial aviation standards.
Just remember someone has to pay the wages of the Europa team at
Kirkbymoorside. Without them it would be very difficult for us to keep
flying. Once you become a Europa owner their help and expertise comes free
of charge.
With only 500 or so aircraft out there you have to sell a hell of a lot of
spares and kits just to cover the day to day running costs of the business.
Its easy to work out the cost of the raw materials and argue that the final
cost is a rip off but Europa dosent enjoy the economies of scale that larger
businesses enjoy. The thousand or so wing pins that have to be manufactured
will certainly cost more than a few pence each.
No one likes having to shell out for mandatory mods but fifty quid for a
safer aircraft sounds like a bargain to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 74
>
> David.Corbett wrote:
>
>> Further to earlier e-mails this evening, Richard Holder
>> has drawn my attention to Tech Talk on the factory
>> website - which gives an indication of price and
>> delivery date for the kits.
>
> Yup.
>
> FORTY POUNDS plus VAT plus carriage for
>
> 2 x pins
> 2 x M12 Nylocs
> 2 x M12 "thick" washers
>
> The Nylocs are 8 a hundred from RS ! Washers unlikely to
> be more !
>
> I won't say what I think of this !
>
> Richard
>
>
>
Message 24
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I have heard it said that the Bose ANR headsets (Aviation X) aren't
brilliant with a Rotax - due to the frequencies being so much higher than
with a Lycosaurus. Can anyone out their comment?
Regards,
Jeremy
Message 25
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| Subject: | europa list mod 74 |
> I have seen the work on the only Europa which has
> undergone Mod 74 courtesy Andy Draper. We asked the
> same question and the feeling is there isnt enough room
> to get a spanner around the securing nut to tighten it
> - its a lot easier through the wing underside.
> The access hole is about 1.5" diameter and the repair
> afterwards extends to about 9" square. As its on the
> underside it has little effect on the aerodynamics of
> the wing and is easy to conceal.
> My understanding is the PFA will consider an
> alternative means of access and someone is looking into
> this.
> One aspect of Mod 74 (yet to be decided) is that it may
> incorporate a tie bar similar to the weight increase
> mod - or the present weight increase mod may become
> mandatory. There is a question mark over the
> effectiveness of the top hat stiffeners currently
> specified in the older Europas (without tie bars).
I am sure it is decided as Mod 74 is now published with
the need for a tie bar if you don't have Mod 52.
The access hole in the Mod is 2 1/4 inches
RH
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Europa list mod 74 |
My reading of the info on the Europa web site is that a Classic when
fitted with mod 74 including the tie bar but not the rest of the mod 52
will not have its weight increase to 1370 lbs.
This seems odd to me but that is the way I read it.
Any way to get the weight up 1370 lbs without doing first mod 52 and then
mod 74 ?
Tim Houlihan
G-BZTH
>
>> I have seen the work on the only Europa which has
>> undergone Mod 74 courtesy Andy Draper. We asked the
>> same question and the feeling is there isnt enough room
>> to get a spanner around the securing nut to tighten it
>> - its a lot easier through the wing underside.
>
>> The access hole is about 1.5" diameter and the repair
>> afterwards extends to about 9" square. As its on the
>> underside it has little effect on the aerodynamics of
>> the wing and is easy to conceal.
>
>> My understanding is the PFA will consider an
>> alternative means of access and someone is looking into
>> this.
>
>> One aspect of Mod 74 (yet to be decided) is that it may
>> incorporate a tie bar similar to the weight increase
>> mod - or the present weight increase mod may become
>> mandatory. There is a question mark over the
>> effectiveness of the top hat stiffeners currently
>> specified in the older Europas (without tie bars).
>
> I am sure it is decided as Mod 74 is now published with
> the need for a tie bar if you don't have Mod 52.
>
> The access hole in the Mod is 2 1/4 inches
>
> RH
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
I have a couple of Lightspeed 15xc's which work just fine. At $350 USD,
the price wasn't bad, either. Don't know if they are still available,
though...
Jeff - Baby Blue
304 hrs
josok wrote:
>
> If there is still somebody around and not redoing tail planes or visiting Oshkosh:
>
> While i have a pair of very well rated David Clark headsets, my test pilot suggested
that ANR would be better. I tend to agree, because these passive sets
are probably tuned to reduce the noise of Lycosauruses and the like. So, if you
have experienced the one and the other, what's your opinion? I know already
which is the most expensive one. They have an offer for CFI's, which they no doubt
charge back on the end user. Don't have to say that i hate that kind of "marketing"
Smells of a bribe. So is there a good, less expensive alternative?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: anr headsets |
Jeremy,
To your question:
> I have heard it said that the Bose ANR headsets (Aviation X) aren't
> brilliant with a Rotax - due to the frequencies being so much higher than
> with a Lycosaurus. Can anyone out their comment?
>
I have used this headset for about two years, but have no experience with
other ANR sets. To my ears they are as effective (and very noticeably
effective) in my Europa with Rotax as in Cessna 172s and Piper Cherokees
with Lycomings.
Apart from the comfort of much less noise in the ears, a side effect is that
you speak in a more normal voice on the radio - no need to "shout" to
overcome noise. Also, using the cell phone via an adapter (I have
SafetyCell's) for the headset's mike and headphones works fine.
I have padded the metal going over the top of my head to avoid scratches in
the window in bumpy air.
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
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