Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:34 AM - Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak (Bill and Sue)
2. 12:58 AM - Re: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? (Gilles Thesee)
3. 03:07 AM - Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak (Pete Lawless)
4. 03:40 AM - Re: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? (Trevpond@aol.com)
5. 04:19 AM - Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak (R.C.Harrison)
6. 04:26 AM - Re: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? (R.C.Harrison)
7. 04:33 AM - Re: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? (Trevpond@aol.com)
8. 09:47 AM - Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak (jim Brown)
9. 10:32 AM - Air Master Brushes (Jeff B)
10. 11:22 AM - Re: Air Master Brushes (Tom Friedland)
11. 11:43 AM - Re: Air Master Brushes (Jeff B)
12. 01:42 PM - Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak (Bill and Sue)
13. 05:21 PM - Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak (ALAN YERLY)
14. 10:43 PM - Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak (Alan Burrows)
15. 11:33 PM - Re: Last of the Summer Wine (A B Milne)
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Subject: | Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak |
Steve,
I had to replace my tank after an incident with a cow!
It was not as nearly as bad as I thought it would be. ( The repair, not
hitting the cow!)
I removed the tank by cutting the top off the cockpit module about 20mm
below the top edge. The tank was stuck hard to the fibreglass straps
that hold it in place so I just cut it to pieces in place and took it
out bit by bit, this was a bit tedious but did not present any problems.
I prepared the new tank ready so that when I put it in it would be a one
time job only with no in and out trials.
To put the tank in I had to spread the fuselage enough for it to slip in
on to the original support lay-ups and check that it was in the correct
position. When the tank looked to be positioned correctly and not
fouling any controls I then lifted it as high as possible and managed to
get a redux - flox mix on to the brackets sufficient to hold the tank in
place. The top of the cockpit module was replaced using the normal
glass splicing techniques.
I also increased the width of the spacers that prevent the tank from
expanding forward. I was concerned that the amount it moved when full of
fuel could cause cracking.
This all happened 500 hrs ago and it has never shown any defect.
Rgds
Mono XS
914 Airmaster
Bill Sisley
Steve Hagar wrote:
>
> After having the aircraft down for awhile with the fuel tank drained
> to avoid having stale gas present I noted a leak upon gassing it up.
> I was going to bring it over to Phoenix Composites to have the prop
> rebalanced. It looked like it was coming from the lower feed boss
> where the big piece of short hose is clamped on. I was in a hurry and
> going on vacation in 2 days for a few weeks. I didn't want to deal
> with it then so re-drained the tank to re-address it later.
>
> Upon re-gassing it up upon return the gas started flowing out at a
> rate of about a third as fast as I was pouring it in! Upon inspection
> it was determined that it was coming from a crack in the tank near the
> bottom of the saddle section reserve side where a fiberglass layup
> support is attached. It appears that the strapping has acted as a
> stress raiser along with expansion and contraction in the AZ heat.
>
> In any case it looks like it may have to be sawzall time for the top
> of the cockpit module for repair. Has anyone gone through a repair to
> a fuel tank an a fully built aircraft? What was the routine? I am
> not looking forward to this and am possibly considering just parting
> the aircraft out. I could have been out flying and pumped all the
> fuel out of the reserve return side in a matter of about 10 minutes
> if I didn't light it off.
>
> Feed back appreciated
>
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa AZ
> 914
> Airmaster
>
>
> Steve Hagar
> hagargs@earthlink.net <mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2458 (20070813) Information __________
>
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Subject: | Re: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? |
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us a crit :
> Has anyone ever experianced carb ice on a intercooled 914?
>
> See attached PDF chapter 18.
>
> Rotax has updated website:
>
Ron and all,
Never experienced carb ice on the Rotax 914. French dealer Avirex
says it is very unlikely.
In our tightly cowled setup the carbs run really warm so the probability
is low. But in other airplanes things may be different.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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Subject: | Down for the count - fuel tank leak |
Bill
Tell all what did you do to the cow that caused the fuel tank to leak?
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and
Sue
Sent: 14 August 2007 08:33
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Down for the count - fuel tank leak
Steve,
I had to replace my tank after an incident with a cow!
It was not as nearly as bad as I thought it would be. ( The repair, not
hitting the cow!)
I removed the tank by cutting the top off the cockpit module about 20mm
below the top edge. The tank was stuck hard to the fibreglass straps
that
hold it in place so I just cut it to pieces in place and took it out bit
by
bit, this was a bit tedious but did not present any problems.
I prepared the new tank ready so that when I put it in it would be a one
time job only with no in and out trials.
To put the tank in I had to spread the fuselage enough for it to slip in
on
to the original support lay-ups and check that it was in the correct
position. When the tank looked to be positioned correctly and not
fouling
any controls I then lifted it as high as possible and managed to get a
redux
- flox mix on to the brackets sufficient to hold the tank in place. The
top
of the cockpit module was replaced using the normal glass splicing
techniques.
I also increased the width of the spacers that prevent the tank from
expanding forward. I was concerned that the amount it moved when full of
fuel could cause cracking.
This all happened 500 hrs ago and it has never shown any defect.
Rgds
Mono XS
914 Airmaster
Bill Sisley
Steve Hagar wrote:
After having the aircraft down for awhile with the fuel tank drained to
avoid having stale gas present I noted a leak upon gassing it up. I was
going to bring it over to Phoenix Composites to have the prop
rebalanced.
It looked like it was coming from the lower feed boss where the big
piece of
short hose is clamped on. I was in a hurry and going on vacation in 2
days
for a few weeks. I didn't want to deal with it then so re-drained the
tank
to re-address it later.
Upon re-gassing it up upon return the gas started flowing out at a rate
of
about a third as fast as I was pouring it in! Upon inspection it was
determined that it was coming from a crack in the tank near the bottom
of
the saddle section reserve side where a fiberglass layup support is
attached. It appears that the strapping has acted as a stress raiser
along
with expansion and contraction in the AZ heat.
In any case it looks like it may have to be sawzall time for the top of
the
cockpit module for repair. Has anyone gone through a repair to a fuel
tank
an a fully built aircraft? What was the routine? I am not looking
forward
to this and am possibly considering just parting the aircraft out. I
could
have been out flying and pumped all the fuel out of the reserve return
side in a matter of about 10 minutes if I didn't light it off.
Feed back appreciated
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
914
Airmaster
Steve Hagar
hagargs@earthlink.net
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Subject: | Re: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? |
Hi Jim,
At 33"mp and 5300rpm, what is your fuel usage?
Trev Pond
G-LINN
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Subject: | Down for the count - fuel tank leak |
He vowed to never have her as a passenger again ! Joke ..Not intended
that it would be Sue!
D0 not archive.
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Lawless
Sent: 14 August 2007 11:06
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Down for the count - fuel tank leak
Bill
Tell all what did you do to the cow that caused the fuel tank to leak?
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and
Sue
Sent: 14 August 2007 08:33
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Down for the count - fuel tank leak
Steve,
I had to replace my tank after an incident with a cow!
It was not as nearly as bad as I thought it would be. ( The repair, not
hitting the cow!)
I removed the tank by cutting the top off the cockpit module about 20mm
below the top edge. The tank was stuck hard to the fibreglass straps
that hold it in place so I just cut it to pieces in place and took it
out bit by bit, this was a bit tedious but did not present any problems.
I prepared the new tank ready so that when I put it in it would be a one
time job only with no in and out trials.
To put the tank in I had to spread the fuselage enough for it to slip in
on to the original support lay-ups and check that it was in the correct
position. When the tank looked to be positioned correctly and not
fouling any controls I then lifted it as high as possible and managed to
get a redux - flox mix on to the brackets sufficient to hold the tank in
place. The top of the cockpit module was replaced using the normal
glass splicing techniques.
I also increased the width of the spacers that prevent the tank from
expanding forward. I was concerned that the amount it moved when full of
fuel could cause cracking.
This all happened 500 hrs ago and it has never shown any defect.
Rgds
Mono XS
914 Airmaster
Bill Sisley
Steve Hagar wrote:
After having the aircraft down for awhile with the fuel tank drained to
avoid having stale gas present I noted a leak upon gassing it up. I was
going to bring it over to Phoenix Composites to have the prop
rebalanced. It looked like it was coming from the lower feed boss
where the big piece of short hose is clamped on. I was in a hurry and
going on vacation in 2 days for a few weeks. I didn't want to deal with
it then so re-drained the tank to re-address it later.
Upon re-gassing it up upon return the gas started flowing out at a rate
of about a third as fast as I was pouring it in! Upon inspection it was
determined that it was coming from a crack in the tank near the bottom
of the saddle section reserve side where a fiberglass layup support is
attached. It appears that the strapping has acted as a stress raiser
along with expansion and contraction in the AZ heat.
In any case it looks like it may have to be sawzall time for the top of
the cockpit module for repair. Has anyone gone through a repair to a
fuel tank an a fully built aircraft? What was the routine? I am not
looking forward to this and am possibly considering just parting the
aircraft out. I could have been out flying and pumped all the fuel out
of the reserve return side in a matter of about 10 minutes if I didn't
light it off.
Feed back appreciated
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
914
Airmaster
Steve Hagar
hagargs@earthlink.net
__________ NOD32 2458 (20070813) Information __________
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Subject: | Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? |
Trevor
Does this mean you had ICE ?
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Trevpond@aol.com
Sent: 14 August 2007 11:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914?
Hi Jim,
At 33"mp and 5300rpm, what is your fuel usage?
Trev Pond
G-LINN
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Subject: | Re: Anyone have carb ice with intercooled 914? |
Only with a Gin and Tonic!
Trev
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Subject: | Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak |
Steve
I feel like I just wote your letter. I just last week completed
installing a new tank. My old tank was leaking in almost the same
location. I had a crack about one and a half inches long at the edge of
the fiberglass layup in the center of the saddle section. I had planed
to take pictures on the replacement, but simply got involved in the
teardown for replacement that I forgot. This happened at 702 hours on
the Hobbs.
You will need to remove the upholstery from the seat back and top.The
entire top of the seatback needs to be cut loose. make the cut about 2
inches below top of the seatback.(you will need room to refiberglass the
top back on.)
My tank would not release itself from the layups that was done to hold
in place in the build process. I had to cut the tank out in small
pieces, what a pig of a job that was.
Once the tank is installed, you need to cut about, a one inch wide
recess in the seat module and about the same in the top that you removed
to get at the tank. Leave the inside layer of fiberglass on both the
top and the seat module, when you cut the recess.
Then place the top back on the module, layup one layer of fiberglass in
the recess, and let cure.
Once you return lay up at least two more layers in the recess. Then I
laid up 3 more layer of glass that I had cut 5 inches wide. This is a
structural part of the cockpit. Once this cured I mixed up some epoxy
filler to fill in some of the low places, then I reinstalled the
upholstery.
If you need to talk. Cell 352-250-0712
Jim and Augustene Brown
N398JB
Message 9
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Subject: | Air Master Brushes |
Does anyone know if the carbon brushes used with the Airmaster Props are
a stock item that can be locally attained, in the US, or must they be
ordered through Airmaster?
Thanks
Jeff
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Subject: | Re: Air Master Brushes |
Hi Jeff
Airmaster is pretty quick. I suspect that they will airmail you some and
you'll get them as fast as a domestic order.
If you need them and it will take some time, I can send you my extra set and
you can replace them.
Tom
On 8/14/07, Jeff B <topglock@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know if the carbon brushes used with the Airmaster Props are
> a stock item that can be locally attained, in the US, or must they be
> ordered through Airmaster?
>
> Thanks
> Jeff
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Air Master Brushes |
Tom,
Thanks for the reply and the offer. These are actually going to be a
spare set. I just used my spares to replace the original set. I'll
give Airmaster a call.
Jeff
Tom Friedland wrote:
> Hi Jeff
>
> Airmaster is pretty quick. I suspect that they will airmail you some
> and you'll get them as fast as a domestic order.
>
> If you need them and it will take some time, I can send you my extra
> set and you can replace them.
>
> Tom
>
> On 8/14/07, *Jeff B* <topglock@cox.net <mailto:topglock@cox.net>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:topglock@cox.net>>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak |
It was turned into a can of pet food. Beware all animals that get in the
way of a forced landing!
Sue & Bill
R.C.Harrison wrote:
>
> He vowed to never have her as a passenger again ! Joke ....Not
> intended that it would be Sue!
>
> D0 not archive.
>
>
>
> Robt.C.Harrison
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pete
> Lawless
> *Sent:* 14 August 2007 11:06
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Down for the count - fuel tank leak
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Tell all what did you do to the cow that caused the fuel tank to leak?
>
>
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> and Sue
> *Sent:* 14 August 2007 08:33
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Down for the count - fuel tank leak
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I had to replace my tank after an incident with a cow!
>
> It was not as nearly as bad as I thought it would be. ( The repair,
> not hitting the cow!)
>
> I removed the tank by cutting the top off the cockpit module about
> 20mm below the top edge. The tank was stuck hard to the fibreglass
> straps that hold it in place so I just cut it to pieces in place and
> took it out bit by bit, this was a bit tedious but did not present any
> problems.
> I prepared the new tank ready so that when I put it in it would be a
> one time job only with no in and out trials.
> To put the tank in I had to spread the fuselage enough for it to slip
> in on to the original support lay-ups and check that it was in the
> correct position. When the tank looked to be positioned correctly and
> not fouling any controls I then lifted it as high as possible and
> managed to get a redux - flox mix on to the brackets sufficient to
> hold the tank in place. The top of the cockpit module was replaced
> using the normal glass splicing techniques.
> I also increased the width of the spacers that prevent the tank from
> expanding forward. I was concerned that the amount it moved when full
> of fuel could cause cracking.
>
> This all happened 500 hrs ago and it has never shown any defect.
>
> Rgds
> Mono XS
> 914 Airmaster
>
>
> Bill Sisley
>
>
> Steve Hagar wrote:
>
> After having the aircraft down for awhile with the fuel tank drained
> to avoid having stale gas present I noted a leak upon gassing it up.
> I was going to bring it over to Phoenix Composites to have the prop
> rebalanced. It looked like it was coming from the lower feed boss
> where the big piece of short hose is clamped on. I was in a hurry and
> going on vacation in 2 days for a few weeks. I didn't want to deal
> with it then so re-drained the tank to re-address it later.
>
>
>
> Upon re-gassing it up upon return the gas started flowing out at a
> rate of about a third as fast as I was pouring it in! Upon inspection
> it was determined that it was coming from a crack in the tank near the
> bottom of the saddle section reserve side where a fiberglass layup
> support is attached. It appears that the strapping has acted as a
> stress raiser along with expansion and contraction in the AZ heat.
>
>
>
> In any case it looks like it may have to be sawzall time for the top
> of the cockpit module for repair. Has anyone gone through a repair to
> a fuel tank an a fully built aircraft? What was the routine? I am
> not looking forward to this and am possibly considering just parting
> the aircraft out. I could have been out flying and pumped all the
> fuel out of the reserve return side in a matter of about 10 minutes
> if I didn't light it off.
>
>
>
> Feed back appreciated
>
>
>
> Steve Hagar
>
> A143
>
> Mesa AZ
>
> 914
>
> Airmaster
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve Hagar
>
> hagargs@earthlink.net <mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net>
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
> * *
>
>
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>
> * *
> * *
> *< /span>< /span>< /span> *
>
>
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> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
> * *
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> * - The Europa-List Email Forum -*
> **
> **
> **
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> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List*
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Subject: | Re: Down for the count - fuel tank leak |
Steve,
When I was at Flight Crafters, Russell and I cut out Joe Deriders tank.
Cut the cockpit module top off about 1 inch or so down.. Once the tank
top is exposed, you will best be served by drilling small holes to get
the saw in and then cutting the tank out in pieces. We used an air saw
with a Dremmel and air cutters with every imaginable attachment. Clean
up the reinforcing plies and then look hard at what caused the split.
The glass reinforcements do really stick quite hard. Check also that
the front spacers are not putting too much push against the tank causing
it to buckle under the tank expansion. Your tank split is the first one
I have heard of not as a result of a really hard landing or something
that may have caused the fuselage to buckle. A Tri gear can bend the
fuselage and cause a lateral tension failure on the bottom of the
aircraft, but you have got to hit really hard. Mono can bend more
longitudinally, but you have got to hit really hard.
Replacing the tank was no major problem for us and if I remember, Joe
had an enlarged the fuel access holes, or we cut it to make one long
"Double D" which made the refit of plumbing and lower attach bracket a
breeze. Two days of sweat. Like eating an elephant....One bite at a
time.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Hagar<mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net>
To: europa-list<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:47 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Down for the count - fuel tank leak
After having the aircraft down for awhile with the fuel tank drained
to avoid having stale gas present I noted a leak upon gassing it up. I
was going to bring it over to Phoenix Composites to have the prop
rebalanced. It looked like it was coming from the lower feed boss
where the big piece of short hose is clamped on. I was in a hurry and
going on vacation in 2 days for a few weeks. I didn't want to deal with
it then so re-drained the tank to re-address it later.
Upon re-gassing it up upon return the gas started flowing out at a
rate of about a third as fast as I was pouring it in! Upon inspection
it was determined that it was coming from a crack in the tank near the
bottom of the saddle section reserve side where a fiberglass layup
support is attached. It appears that the strapping has acted as a
stress raiser along with expansion and contraction in the AZ heat.
In any case it looks like it may have to be sawzall time for the top
of the cockpit module for repair. Has anyone gone through a repair to a
fuel tank an a fully built aircraft? What was the routine? I am not
looking forward to this and am possibly considering just parting the
aircraft out. I could have been out flying and pumped all the fuel out
of the reserve return side in a matter of about 10 minutes if I didn't
light it off.
Feed back appreciated
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
914
Airmaster
Steve Hagar
hagargs@earthlink.net<mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
Message 14
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Subject: | Down for the count - fuel tank leak |
Steve
I had exactly the same problem at the beginning of the year and
documented
it on this forum under the title =93 Who says life is fair=94. My leak
was in
the same spot as yours. We initially tried a repair, but that didn=92t
work,
so don=92t bother trying it=92s a waste of your time. The only solution
is to
replace the tank as others have said already. Its strange that when I
had my
leak no one seemed to have heard of this problem, now we have had a
couple
more? Are they all occurring in hot climates or is there another
problem?
If you want any help with the actual removal and installation speak to
Bob
Berube who did mine for me and did a great job.
Good Luck
Alan
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Sent: 15 August 2007 06:48
Subject: Europa-List: Down for the count - fuel tank leak
After having the aircraft down for awhile with the fuel tank drained to
avoid having stale gas present I noted a leak upon gassing it up. I was
going to bring it over to Phoenix Composites to have the prop
rebalanced.
It looked like it was coming from the lower feed boss where the big
piece of
short hose is clamped on. I was in a hurry and going on vacation in 2
days
for a few weeks. I didn't want to deal with it then so re-drained the
tank
to re-address it later.
Upon re-gassing it up upon return the gas started flowing out at a rate
of
about a third as fast as I was pouring it in! Upon inspection it was
determined that it was coming from a crack in the tank near the bottom
of
the saddle section reserve side where a fiberglass layup support is
attached. It appears that the strapping has acted as a stress raiser
along
with expansion and contraction in the AZ heat.
In any case it looks like it may have to be sawzall time for the top of
the
cockpit module for repair. Has anyone gone through a repair to a fuel
tank
an a fully built aircraft? What was the routine? I am not looking
forward
to this and am possibly considering just parting the aircraft out. I
could
have been out flying and pumped all the fuel out of the reserve return
side in a matter of about 10 minutes if I didn't light it off.
Feed back appreciated
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
914
Airmaster
Steve Hagar
HYPERLINK "mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net"hagargs@earthlink.net
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Nav
igator?Europa-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
13/08/2007
10:15
13/08/2007
10:15
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Last of the Summer Wine |
Dear Bryan,
Please count me in and keep me posted on arrangements for the last of
the Summer
Wine. Pease arrange for there to be no weather!
Yours sincerely,
Alasdair.
Quoting bryan allsop <bryanallsop@hotmail.com>:
>
> The annual Last of the Summer Wine trip has always been organized by
> William Mills in the past. It has been an informal tour around
> various parts of France, with it's destinations determined by the
> weather, and the feelings of the participants. Nothing demanding,
> just the joy of a few days enjoying the environment, and a bit of
> flying together. We are confident that William would have wished the
> event to continue.
>
> All being well we are looking at the 13th - 16th September for this
> trip. Hopefully the mod. situation will have been resolved by then.
>
> Would anyone wishing to participate kindly let me know so that I can
> start making the arrangements.
>
> Regards to all.
>
> Bryan Allsop
> _________________________________________________________________
> Messenger Caf -- open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities
> served daily. Visit now.
> http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline
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