---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/28/07: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:20 AM - Re: Broken Mag wire (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 2. 02:13 PM - Re: Broken Mag wire (Graham Singleton) 3. 03:28 PM - XS Wing Query (steve v) 4. 03:50 PM - Re: Broken Mag wire (Graham Singleton) 5. 04:39 PM - Re: Broken Mag wire (Kingsley Hurst) 6. 07:50 PM - Re: XS Wing Query (Bill and Sue) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Broken Mag wire From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" There is one more thing that needs cooling air, the muffler, there is a lot of heat dumped into the cowl at the muffler. Cooling air needs to be directed past the cylinders and then around the muffler to keep from melting things under the cowl. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Broken Mag wire Jeff The thing to remember above all else is that ALL the cooling air should go throught the radiators or the cylinder fins. Mainly the radiators. (Not much heat comes through the cylinder walls, its all generated in the head and the top of the pistons. So it heats the oil and the coolant.) You should seal all the gaps round the radiators. If you compare the area between the fins with the size of the gaps around the rads, then consider the dragginess of the finning its not surprising too much air leaks past and does no cooling at all. Have a look at the cooling air inlet on this Long EZ, this efficiently cools a 160 hp Lycosaurus and only needs about 8 square inches a side to cool all four cylinders. The key is pressure recovery and good sealing. High pressure to force the air through the fins and nowhere else. The other pik is the first Europa fly in at rough river, October 06! Wonderful weekend, except the Kentucky beer isn't much good, neither is Kentucky wine. Kentucky bourbon is OK but they aren't aloud to sell it to you!}}:-( Graham Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > > Jeff, > > I hope the fix you describe will solve the cooling issue. > > When I did the firewall-forward work, Andy Draper (at that time eith EA2004) recommended that I closed the lower NACA - it should never have been there for the 912/912S installations, he said, only for the 914's turbo. As I recall our conversation, his point was that all this additional air coming in at a place where it does not do any good for 912/912S, competes with the cooling air coming in through the cowl front openings in getting out again. As air in = air out, I trust you have already ensured that you have maximum possible outlet area aft/below, without reducing the air flow through the coolers? > > Regards, > Svein > LN-SKJ > > Jeff wrote: > >> On my cooling issues it's just a mater of too high of pressure in the lower cowl not letting the upper air from the top intakes down through. Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > > > Jeff, > > I hope the fix you describe will solve the cooling issue. > > When I did the firewall-forward work, Andy Draper (at that time eith > EA2004) recommended that I closed the lower NACA - it should never > have been there for the 912/912S installations, he said, only for the > 914's turbo. As I recall our conversation, his point was that all > this additional air coming in at a place where it does not do any good > for 912/912S, competes with the cooling air coming in through the cowl > front openings in getting out again. In other words, the more places > you let air in, the less air actually comes in through each inlet when > the outlet area is not increased. The NACA therefore effectively > reduces the air flow through the cowl front, which is the air flow > intended to cool the cylinders. > > Your fix should therefore improve things, I believe. > >> From what I can read between the lines, you don't have the Rotax >> glassfibre > > cooling shroud over the cylinders and its (third) opening in the cowl > front? > > As air in = air out, I trust you have already ensured that you have > maximum possible outlet area aft/below, without reducing the air flow > through the coolers? > > Regards, > Svein > LN-SKJ > > Jeff wrote: > >> On my cooling issues it's just a mater of too high of pressure in the >> lower cowl not letting the upper air from the top intakes down >> through. Until now the lower NACA was just shooting air into the >> lower cowl with no direction causing the this high pressure. John >> Hurst told me some time ago the demonstrator was set up this way and it was fine. >> This overheating never showed until this hot Tennessee heat wave hit. >> Again I believe I'll have it solved. I have glassed in the lower NACA >> to receive a 2 inch scat tube. This I will run to the upper part of >> the cowl. I hope it eliminates the high, lower cowl pressure and >> increases the top air pressure to force more air cooling down through >> the cylinders. I should have it all fixed in time for next weekend's >> fly-in at Rough River. > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:51 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Broken Mag wire Terry you are right. I didn't make my point clearly enough. The important thing is to achieve a good pressure difference between the upstream and downstream sides of the radiators. Cooling the muffler is also important but has to be treated as a separate issue. It's not practical to get a single stream of air to do all three efficiently under all conditions. Graham Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote: > > There is one more thing that needs cooling air, the muffler, there is a > lot of heat dumped into the cowl at the muffler. Cooling air needs to > be directed past the cylinders and then around the muffler to keep from > melting things under the cowl. > > Regards, > Terry Seaver > A135 / N135TD > Jeff > The thing to remember above all else is that ALL the cooling air should > go throught the radiators or the cylinder fins. Mainly the radiators. > (Not much heat comes through the cylinder walls, its all generated in > the head and the top of the pistons. So it heats the oil and the > coolant.) You should seal all the gaps round the radiators. > > Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:40 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: XS Wing Query From: "steve v " Hi, does any one know if the Root of the XS wing is reinforced at the leading edge in a similar manner to the trailing edge for standing on? steve G-CEBV #573 Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:08 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Broken Mag wire Jeff and if you treck over here I'll introduce you to good old Staffordshire beer. (just about equal to Slovakian beer, the real Budweiser! ) Graham JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > > On Aug 27, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Graham Singleton wrote: > >> >> Wonderful weekend, except the Kentucky beer isn't much good, neither is >> Kentucky wine. Kentucky bourbon is OK but they aren't aloud to sell it >> to you!}}:-( ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:21 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Broken Mag wire > and if you treck over here I'll introduce you to good old Staffordshire beer. (just about equal to Slovakian beer, the real Budweiser! ) Graham It's got nothing on our XXXX (pronounced Fourex) Graham, XXXX will make a sparrow fight an Emu ! ! Cheers Kingsley Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:28 PM PST US From: Bill and Sue Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Wing Query No it is not! I used to sit on mine and lean back to get in as this was a very easy way of entry. The deflection of the skin caused the filler and paint to crack along the front of the spar, both port and stbd wings. I talked to Andy and he advised it was more heavily skinned in that area but not supported by ribs to make it suitable for sitting on. The repair was to refill and paint Mono XS 914 Airmaster 600hrs Sue & Bill steve v wrote: > > Hi, does any one know if the Root of the XS wing is reinforced at the leading edge in a similar manner to the trailing edge for standing on? > > steve G-CEBV #573 > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > __________ NOD32 2481 (20070823) Information __________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.