---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/14/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:05 AM - FW: Old Sarum Fly in UPDATE (G-IANI) 2. 12:15 AM - Re: StructuraL failure or? (Keith Hickling) 3. 12:52 AM - Monowheel speed kit (Remi Guerner) 4. 02:42 AM - Re: StructuraL failure or? (josok) 5. 04:45 AM - Re: Quandary (Jeremy Davey) 6. 10:40 AM - Re: Quandary (Rob Housman) 7. 11:48 AM - Re: Old Sarum Fly in UPDATE (Carl Pattinson) 8. 11:48 AM - Re: Quandary (Carl Pattinson) 9. 03:58 PM - Re: Old Sarum Fly in UPDATE (steve v) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:24 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in UPDATE Old Sarum Europa Fly In Update Saturday September 15, 2007 Please check the NOTAMS The Red Arrows are expected at Middle Wallop Time not yet known see Mod 64B (High Top with lowered cowl and bigger screen) Non Flying builders and potential owners Welcome You might even get a ride If you plan (weather permitting) to attend please contact Ian Rickard on 01483 714096 or e-mail (g-iani @ntlworld.com) By letting me know we can organise reserved Tables for Lunch (or Barbeque depending on numbers) Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:16 AM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List: StructuraL failure or? Jos, I don't understand why you are suggesting that if one drive pin is not connected to the T bar, the anti-servo tabs would function in reverse (ie causing positive instead of negative feedback to tailplane movement, so causing instability. I don't see why the unconnected one should move in reverse direction. Can you explain your thoughts in more detail? Regards, Keith. New Zealand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "josok" Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 1:45 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: StructuraL failure or? > > Hi Bob, > > Yes, i noticed the enormous effect of the trim-tabs. > Trim to the limits at cruise was one of the items in the test program for > my plane. And, exactly as in your experience, the forces, especially for > the nose-up situation, were so much, that i was afraid something would > break. > > The experience changed my opinion about the danger of the your > out-of-control trim motor story, which i clearly remember. > I have now a clear marking next to the pullable circuit breaker for the > trim system, on the panel and in my mind, should this ever happen. > > Now i am writing this, i realize that the other action would be to slow > down the plane, it would probably lower the stick forces to a manageable > level as well. To be checked! > > Still waiting for opinions on the one not-connected trim-tab leading to > destruction scenario though! > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:23 AM PST US From: "Remi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit Hi Paul, Yes I have the whole eleven fairings fitted. That includes the tail wheel fairing. I agree this is disappointing given the up to nine knots gain claimed by the factory. However all those fairings enhance the look of the airplane, protect the outrigger mechanism and prevent mud projections from the little wheels... and removed 1.2 kg from my useful load. Remi Only a couple of knots gain? Disappointing to say the least. Did you have the tail wheel fairing fitted ? I haven't fitted mine and I am wondering if it is worth the effort. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Remi Guerner Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 2:24 PM To: Europa-List Digest Server Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit The installation of my speed kit is now completed and I made some speed measurements today. The results are as follows: Without the speed kit, June 2006: altitude FL75, OAT 10 degrees C, that is density altitude 8500 ft, full throttle, 5000 RPM, that is approx 60 percent power, TAS 133 kts. Same day, same conditions except 4800 RPM, that is approx 55 percent power, TAS 130 kts. With the speed kit today: altitude FL75, OAT 11 degrees C, full throttle, 5000 RPM, TAS 135 kts. Same conditions except 4800 RPM, TAS 134 kts. Conclusion: the speed gain is in the 2 to 4 knots range. All flights were with full fuel, no passenger. Estimated weight: 520kg. All 11 speed kit fairings installed. True airspeed was computed using the GPS 3 segments method. Best regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 526 hours ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: StructuraL failure or? From: "josok" Hi Keith, Thanks for making clear that it is not so obvious. :-) Let me try again, in as much detail as i can think of. While rigging the tail planes, it is possible to have one anti-trim-tab drive pin on top of the TS05 t-bar instead of in. Once that is done, it will be difficult to see the difference. Gravity will keep the pin on top, there is no room for the pin to fall past the t-bar. The pitch control system will work, the trim tabs will move up and down just like in the proper rigging situ. Now we go flying. Everything will seem fine. Then, some turbulence or input force on the pitch trim system forces the trim tab drive pin past, down of the t-bar. The trim tab will now be pointing downwards of the original position. Remember, these are anti-trim tabs, so not only the trim will way off, but also the feed-back is wrong, opposite of what the pilot would expect. That's what i mean be reverse effect. So the nose is going down, and the force on the stick is up! As we know, the all moving tail pitch control is very powerful. Imagine you are happy flying along, maybe with a little bit of back pressure on the stick, and all of a sudden the stick wants to move backwards, and the plane pitches sharp UP. The first reaction will be to control the stick, which, because of the error in the pitch control and the lack of anti forces, will cause awesome forces, lots of Gs. The next input will be opposite, and IMHO could start breaking things apart. The lack of anti-forces, tog ether with the trim badly off track will cause a Pilot Induced Oscillation way beyond what ever could happen with a connected anti-trim-tab. Well, that's the theory, and folks, please try to put it to rest. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:36 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Quandary Fair point. Double-sided sticky tape? Depends on how much 'tug' you need to give it, I guess. Cheers, Jeremy -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ferg Kyle Sent: 13 September 2007 19:06 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Quandary Jeremy I thought of that but if the Redux managed to touch the circumference on its long and tortuous voyage I might not get the stab tube into the stab when it cures.................. Perhaps if I surrounded the stick with a tube of foam...? It may be I can stab the bung with a drywall screw and twist the little #$%^&* into the black ------ plastic and haul it out that way. Anyway, thanks for the rapid reply! Ferg Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:03 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Quandary How about the low tech approach (bubble gum on a stick)? Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ferg Kyle Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Quandary Jeremy I thought of that but if the Redux managed to touch the circumference on its long and tortuous voyage I might not get the stab tube into the stab when it cures.................. Perhaps if I surrounded the stick with a tube of foam...? It may be I can stab the bung with a drywall screw and twist the little #$%^&* into the black ------ plastic and haul it out that way. Anyway, thanks for the rapid reply! Ferg Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:15 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in UPDATE MessageUnless im missing something NOTAMS indicates there to be a flying display at Middle Wallop all day from 6.30am until 4.30pm with a 5 mile exclusion zone up to 6000 ft. No indication of what route, height or time the Red Arrows might arrive or depart. Its all a bit wooly ! Hopefully those versed in the art of deciphering NOTAMS will be able to extract some more useful information. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: G-IANI To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 8:05 AM Subject: FW: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in UPDATE Old Sarum Europa Fly In Update Saturday September 15, 2007 Please check the NOTAMS The Red Arrows are expected at Middle Wallop Time not yet known see Mod 64B (High Top with lowered cowl and bigger screen) Non Flying builders and potential owners Welcome You might even get a ride If you plan (weather permitting) to attend please contact Ian Rickard on 01483 714096 or e-mail (g-iani@ntlworld.com) By letting me know we can organise reserved Tables for Lunch (or Barbeque depending on numbers) Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:21 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Quandary Better do it quick. Apparently some boffin has just invented non stick bubblegum/ chewing gum. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Housman" Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Quandary > > How about the low tech approach (bubble gum on a stick)? > > > Best regards, > > Rob Housman > Irvine, California > Europa XS Tri-Gear > S/N A070 > Airframe complete > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ferg Kyle > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:06 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Quandary > > > Jeremy > I thought of that but if the Redux managed to touch the circumference > on its long and tortuous voyage I might not get the stab tube into the > stab > when it cures.................. Perhaps if I surrounded the stick with a > tube of foam...? > It may be I can stab the bung with a drywall screw and twist the > little > #$%^&* into the black ------ plastic and haul it out that way. > > Anyway, thanks for the rapid reply! > Ferg > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in UPDATE From: "steve v " Hi, i belive it is a flypast, 15 September 1234 take off from Jersey 1300 Reds flypast Middle Wallop 1310 land Filton Steve G-CEBV #573 Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.