Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:45 AM - Monowheel speed kit (Remi Guerner)
2. 01:26 AM - Laddingford Fly-in Saturday 22nd September (David Watts)
3. 08:53 AM - Dive to Vne (Fergus Kyle)
4. 09:13 AM - Re: Dynon AOA homemade 1 of 3 (UVTReith@aol.com)
5. 09:24 AM - Re: Dive to Vne (William Daniell)
6. 09:40 AM - Re: Dynon AOA homemade 1 of 3 ()
7. 09:42 AM - Europa for heavy boys (UVTReith@aol.com)
8. 10:01 AM - Re: Dive to Vne (R.C.Harrison)
9. 10:36 AM - Re: Dive to Vne (Karl Heindl)
10. 11:10 AM - Re: Dynon AOA homemade 1 of 3 (josok)
11. 11:14 AM - Re: Dive to Vne (Mark Burton)
12. 11:39 AM - Re: Dive to Vne (josok)
13. 01:16 PM - Re: Dive to Vne (rampil)
14. 01:38 PM - Re: Dive to Vne (Fred Klein)
15. 02:36 PM - Re: Dive to Vne (UVTReith@aol.com)
16. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Dive to Vne (tony.bale@virgin.net)
17. 07:17 PM - Re: Dive to Vne (William Daniell)
18. 07:17 PM - Re: Dive to Vne (William Daniell)
19. 09:08 PM - Re: Dive to Vne (Michael Grass)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Monowheel speed kit |
Hi Raimo,
I confirm the speed kit supplied by the factory includes eleven
fairings: 2 for the outrigger mechanism, 4 for the flap hinges, 2 for
the flap cross tube pivots, 2 for the outrigger wheels and one for the
tailwheel. I managed to install the outrigger mechanism fairing without
gluing it as I wanted to be able to remove it easily for inspection. The
fairings are just bolted at the specified attach points plus using one
screw from the aileron bellcranck inspection plate. I had to reshape the
fairing flanges using a heat gun to get an acceptable fit.
Remi
My mono is far away and
cannot verify how many
fairings I have. I can remember
four of them /wing and just one
around tail wheel. That means 9 pcs.
Just wonder where are two extra.
Around main wheel? I have not...why?
How did you install the fairing around the
outrigger mechanism? I did as per
instructions + soft glued it to the
down surface of the wing just to keep
it clean and nice. Just wonder how
often I should remove it to make
some service and spring check of
the mechanism. I would like to hope
they last forever w/o service...
Message 2
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| Subject: | Laddingford Fly-in Saturday 22nd September |
Hi all,
just a short reminder that this coming Saturday is the annual
Laddingford Fly-in.
At the moment the forecasts for the weekend look really good ( at least
down this way).
In years gone by we usually have a really good turnout, with up to 20
Europas in attendance plus many other aircraft. We have already got a
head start this year with 5 Europas in the hangar at the present time.
We will be using the safety com frequency 135.475 with circuits at
1000ft to the north if we are using the 750 mtr. 11 / 29 runway (to the
east in the unlikey event of using the 450 mtr. 03 / 21). It is likely
to be busy so keep a good lookout. The runway at around the midpoint has
become a little bit bumpy with the mostly dry weather that we have had
down this way throughout the summer, so keep your eye on that, but the
aerodrome is manicured to its usual impecable standard.
We will have a barbecue for everybody who comes (small donation asked
for, that goes to the air ambulance after costs).
We shall be giving pleasure flights to anybody that we can force in to
the cockpits, so if you would like to help out with that then let us
know on the day.
Here's looking forward to another excellent day,
Dave Watts
Europa Classic G-BXDY
Laddingford Aerodrome Manager
Message 3
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"<<Why the PFA wants you to do this annually escapes me, >>
To check that it is safe! DuncanMcf "
Duncan, I admire their interest, but it DOES incur two thoughts:
[1] If they are interested, whu don't THEY do it? I would be prepared to
accept an apology if it splats all over Cheshire, and
[2] What is the result of discovering it isn't safe? Back to the drawing
board?
Wouldn't that reduce medical practice to striking the temple with bigger
hammers to establish good bone structure?
Cheers, Ferg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon AOA homemade 1 of 3 |
Hi Tim Shankland and Ron Parigoris,
This is a great story with the AOA device for the Dynon, but I cannot open
pictures or so.
Can you send some more info again?
I'm using the EFIS-D100 and have the Europa stall warner tubingsystem
installed.
I thought, when I connect the stall warner tube also with the AOA port and
the Pitot tube also with the Pitot port of the instrument, that this would be
ok. In this case I have both - a superb display in my EFIS and a sound
machine above my head.
Do I missed something? Is my solution not working?
Some Input from experts are warmly welcome.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith
monowheel XS, smart-Brabus + Warp Drive Prop
Nearly ready, instrument + Com/Nav installation and final check is on the
list now.
Message 5
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2 was going to be my question...
High and with a parachute I think... or is there some other way of testing
this like the static testing on someone's website (can't remember where)
with the bags of cement on the upturned wings.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:52
Subject: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
"<<Why the PFA wants you to do this annually escapes me, >>
To check that it is safe! DuncanMcf "
Duncan, I admire their interest, but it DOES incur two thoughts:
[1] If they are interested, whu don't THEY do it? I would be prepared to
accept an apology if it splats all over Cheshire, and
[2] What is the result of discovering it isn't safe? Back to the drawing
board?
Wouldn't that reduce medical practice to striking the temple with bigger
hammers to establish good bone structure?
Cheers, Ferg
11:53
11:53
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon AOA homemade 1 of 3 |
Hi Bruno
"This is a great story with the AOA device for the Dynon, but I cannot
open pictures or so. Can you send some more info again?"
My Library ISP bounced the pics because they are too large. I tried to
send through my Hotmail account, and bounced because I am not signed up to
Europa Newsgroup.
I sent to you direct from Hotmail. If you can please try and post them to
this thread for others.
Stall warner goes lower pressure near stall, where AOA input for Dynon is
looking for higher pressure near stall.
Don't know what you are going to get with Dynon if you input reverse what
is called for.
Ron P.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Europa for heavy boys |
Hi Friends,
There is somebody who would like to buy a Tri-Gear kit but he is a really
imposant boy.
145 kg x 183 cm
I guess, in this case some Mod's are necessary:
Mod 64: High Top - do I need that with 183 cm ?!?
Mod 24: Modification to increase seat width - this is especially good for
more "bum space"
Mod 67: Cockpit width increase (now standard with new kits)
Bubble typ door windows ? They do not like really nice, do they?
I think, that is all we could do or have I missed something.
Maybe some of you have some more ideas?
Best Regards,
Bruno
Message 8
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"Tut Tut" Ferg .....now that really is "agricultural" thinking!
I will say however there are some damn fine engineers who commenced
their active life on farms getting the rudiments of engineering
experience prior to graduating to more sophisticated engineering later
like planting seeds, they need a good foundation!
BTW.....
It is necessary to be at MTOW on take off for these tests and they do
advise to pull out gently and be sure to not exceed the Vne and not to
overspeed the engine ...oh! and to remember to try small manoeuvres
whilst doing it and report any shortcomings !!!!!!
Regards
Bob H
Do not archive.....
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Sent: 19 September 2007 16:52
Subject: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
"<<Why the PFA wants you to do this annually escapes me, >>
To check that it is safe! DuncanMcf "
Duncan, I admire their interest, but it DOES incur two thoughts:
[1] If they are interested, whu don't THEY do it? I would be prepared
to
accept an apology if it splats all over Cheshire, and
[2] What is the result of discovering it isn't safe? Back to the
drawing
board?
Wouldn't that reduce medical practice to striking the temple with bigger
hammers to establish good bone structure?
Cheers, Ferg
Message 9
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And what about the maximum +- g. How come the PFA don't need to have that
tested ? Shouldn't we pull maximum g at VNE and at MTOW, and if nothing has
fallen off, then you are good for another year.
Karl
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
>
>"Tut Tut" Ferg .....now that really is "agricultural" thinking!
>
>I will say however there are some damn fine engineers who commenced
>their active life on farms getting the rudiments of engineering
>experience prior to graduating to more sophisticated engineering later
>like planting seeds, they need a good foundation!
>
>BTW.....
>
>It is necessary to be at MTOW on take off for these tests and they do
>advise to pull out gently and be sure to not exceed the Vne and not to
>overspeed the engine ...oh! and to remember to try small manoeuvres
>whilst doing it and report any shortcomings !!!!!!
>
>
>Regards
>Bob H
>
>Do not archive.....
>
>Robt.C.Harrison
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
>Sent: 19 September 2007 16:52
>To: EUROPALIST
>Subject: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
>
>
>"<<Why the PFA wants you to do this annually escapes me, >>
>
>To check that it is safe! DuncanMcf "
>
>Duncan, I admire their interest, but it DOES incur two thoughts:
>
>[1] If they are interested, whu don't THEY do it? I would be prepared
>to
>accept an apology if it splats all over Cheshire, and
>
>[2] What is the result of discovering it isn't safe? Back to the
>drawing
>board?
>
>Wouldn't that reduce medical practice to striking the temple with bigger
>hammers to establish good bone structure?
>
>Cheers, Ferg
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live -
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon AOA homemade 1 of 3 |
Hi Ron, Bruno
Well, i tried it today finally, that is using the stall warner for the Dynon AoA
warner. It does not work. I was hoping that the Dynon would register difference
without polarity. It does notice polarity. Ron you were right about it. I
have the original Dynon tube, will install that later.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 11
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What is bizarre about the PFA's vne dive requirement is that if the small print
on the the permit renewal form is true, the permit renewal will fail to be accepted
if you admit to either exceeding vne or failing to reach vne. Not a lot
of margin for error there. I think that says something about the PFA's confidence
in our piloting skills and the accuracy of our speedos.
I wonder how many Europa operators know what the position error of their ASI is
at 150+ knots?
Which begs the question, why isn't vne specified as a RAS rather than an IAS because
the IAS could be way out due to instrument and position errors? I think
this question may have been asked before, sorry for the repeat.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135315#135315
Message 12
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There are at least 3 types of limits.
Calculated limits, Prooven limits and PFA limits.
The calculated limits, which include prooven and tested safety margins, lead to
testing, and if nothing breaks, flutters or otherwise falls apart, we have prooven
limits. Then the PFA comes along and add their own safety factor on the
calculated and prooven limits. I have not been able to find any justification
for that PFA safety factor, other then the general fit-all: Amateur builders make
mistakes. How on earth the PFA can stick a number to these mistakes i do not
understand.
All in all: Diving to PFA-Vne should be absolutely safe, it's some 20 knots slower
then the calculated an prooven Vne. The Pfa knows it's safe, because they
did the bad builder calculation!
Is the same bad-builder safety margin enforced on glasairs and vans and the like?
Are they to do that Vne dive, while their Vne is probably for real?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 13
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I like Ferg's analogy to destructive skull testing!
Despite being an engineer in former life, I still don't get it.
Do we require testing of homebuilt sailboats to hull speed
annually? How many green pilots will die from misadventure near
Vd relative to the number weak wings destructively detected?
(I know I have a thick skull, bring a bigger hammer Ferg)
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135336#135336
Message 14
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Would that there was some way to filter this thread so that wives and
significant others and those faint of heart would not have access to
it...(sigh!)
Fred
do not archive
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 15
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Here in Germany we do not do that Vne Dive Test, we are making the static
wing load test with maximum 1.350 kg laod on each wing (upside down). On the
tailwing we put 100 kg on one side and 150 kg on the other side and swap that
then.
This is a requirement from the OUV (the German PFA).
Bruno
Message 16
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All the correspondence on "dive to vne" has been quite interesting. But
having done the last two annual flight tests on our XS mono including the
vne test, the term dive suggests (to me anyway) everything firewalled and
point the nose at terra firma.
In reality it is nothing like that, I accept most - including our aircraft,
have over reading ASI's (can't remember what the flight test results were)
but with 5400 rpm and probably 25"/26" map the actual nose down attitude is
not very steep at all. It goes without saying this is commenced at high
level on a smooth day, acceleration is strictly limited, the controls are
only moved very smoothly and only to restriced amounts (never need much
deflection anyway !). As an indicator of the scale of the test, our
straight and level speed at full throttle and 5400 rpm is the thick end of
150 knots. (and I bet the turbo boys can see mid to high 150's if they try).
As a point of comparison, with Airmaster cruise setting, and 25" map,
straight and level at circa 2000 ft we indicate 128 Kts +/- (just below the
yellow). Having flown in formation with an Arrow and RV9, our ASI's at this
cruise all read within one or two knots of each other.
My two penny worth anyway.
ATB
Tony.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: rampil ira.rampil@gmail.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Dive to Vne
I like Ferg's analogy to destructive skull testing!
Despite being an engineer in former life, I still don't get it.
Do we require testing of homebuilt sailboats to hull speed
annually? How many green pilots will die from misadventure near
Vd relative to the number weak wings destructively detected?
(I know I have a thick skull, bring a bigger hammer Ferg)
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135336#135336
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Message 17
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From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
UVTReith@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 16:35
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
Here in Germany we do not do that Vne Dive Test, we are making the static
wing load test with maximum 1.350 kg laod on each wing (upside down). On the
tailwing we put 100 kg on one side and 150 kg on the other side and swap
that then.
This is a requirement from the OUV (the German PFA).
Bruno
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
11:53
11:53
Message 18
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Forgive my ignorance but why 1350kg=85?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
UVTReith@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 16:35
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
Here in Germany we do not do that Vne Dive Test, we are making the
static
wing load test with maximum 1.350 kg laod on each wing (upside down). On
the
tailwing we put 100 kg on one side and 150 kg on the other side and swap
that then.
This is a requirement from the OUV (the German PFA).
Bruno
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Nav
igator?Europa-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
9/18/2007
11:53
9/18/2007
11:53
Message 19
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William,
If you do the math:
2 times 1350Kg = 2700 kg or around 5940pounds
This would be about the designed max +3.8 G as specified by Europa plus
about a 15 % safety factor
Just guessing
Michael Grass
----- Original Message -----
From: William Daniell
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
Forgive my ignorance but why 1350kg=85?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
UVTReith@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 16:35
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dive to Vne
Here in Germany we do not do that Vne Dive Test, we are making the
static wing load test with maximum 1.350 kg laod on each wing (upside
down). On the tailwing we put 100 kg on one side and 150 kg on the other
side and swap that then.
This is a requirement from the OUV (the German PFA).
Bruno
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
9/18/2007 11:53
9/18/2007 11:53
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