---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/24/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:12 AM - Re: Outriggers - Lockin (nigel charles) 2. 05:16 AM - Re: Outriggers - Lockin (Kingsley Hurst) 3. 06:06 AM - Re: Outriggers - Lockin (nigel charles) 4. 06:14 AM - metcheck aviation weather summary (milnera) 5. 07:24 AM - Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 6. 07:51 AM - Re: Wing Closing (Rowland & Wilma Carson) 7. 09:05 AM - Re: Dive to Vne (William Daniell) 8. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers (frank wood) 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Monowheel speed kit (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 10. 10:34 AM - Re: Monowheel speed kit (josok) 11. 10:59 AM - Re: Monowheel speed kit (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 12. 01:53 PM - radio (Paul Stewart) 13. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers (Gilles Thesee) 14. 03:15 PM - Re: Tailplane integrity suggestion (Karl Heindl) 15. 03:55 PM - Re: Tailplane integrity suggestion (Rob Housman) 16. 05:08 PM - Re: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers (Graham Singleton) 17. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers (frank wood) 18. 06:27 PM - Re: Tailplane integrity suggestion (Karl Heindl) 19. 08:43 PM - More on VNE (Richard Pottorff) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:50 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outriggers - Lockin I have microswitches on the outriggers to confirm gear position. It does mean one extra connection when rigging the aircraft but it is very quick and easy to do. I used two pairs of low voltage power plugs and sockets. These stay in place but will pull out easily if the wing is removed fully without remembering to disconnect. I also have a light for the main gear which will only light when two microswitches confirm the gear is down and locked. There is also a red for when the main gear is not fully up or down. All this requires work but weighs next to nothing. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Sent: 22 September 2007 20:13 Subject: Europa-List: Outriggers - Lockin Hi all, Today I landed my Europa and the port outrigger had not locked down. As the airspeed decayed I guessed what had happened and tried to keep the wing off, over corrected and ground looped it. Exit one prop. Fortunately it was a windless day so I wasn't trying to fight too many other variables. So... it looks like gear down and locked lights might be in order. I know some people have fitted them in the past. Paul ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:00 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outriggers - Lockin > I also have a light for the main gear which will only light when two > microswitches confirm the gear > is down and locked. Hello Nigel, Is the configuration of these two switches such that one is activated when the gear lever is in the down gate and fully to the right and the other activated by the latch when fully engaged? If so, would you have any photos of how you achieved this please? I have been trying to work this out myself but haven't come up with anything I'm happy with yet. Best regards Kingsley ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:34 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outriggers - Lockin >Is the configuration of these two switches such that one is activated when the gear lever is in the down gate and fully to the right and the other activated by the latch when fully engaged?< Yes >If so, would you have any photos of how you achieved this please? I have been trying to work this out myself but haven't come up with anything I'm happy with yet.< I will try taking a photo when I next get to the aircraft. This email is coming from Dallas so it will be a few days before I get a chance. Regards Nigel ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:12 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: metcheck aviation weather summary From: "milnera" I use various "proper" aviation weather websites for flying and use metcheck for planning golf :) I just noticed that metcheck do an aviation summary now - worth a look. http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/HOBBIES/aviation_forecast.asp?locationID=169 Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:16 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers In a message dated 9/24/2007 2:58:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Would you care to share any precise speed measurements (3 GPS runs, max take off weight, record of altitude, OAT, etc.) ? My Jabiru buddies are getting soooo discreet when it comes to actual performance ;-( Hi Gilles, Sure, I've done many, many speed measurements, especially lately with all the flow testing I've been doing on the wings and I'm happy to share my numbers. Mine is a trigear with an empty weight of 909lbs. The C of G is a little over 60". Typically what I see on a 75F day is 134 kts in cruise at 2850 rpm at 3500' burning 4.6gph according to my Grand Rapids fuel flow meter. One recent cross country flight I saw a TAS of 148kts at 7500' at the same throttle setting. This is with a fixed pitch Sensenich hollow carbon prop pitched as far as I can go and still operate safely out of my 2200' strip, 700' msl, with two on board, full fuel and baggage. I don't pay much attention to MAP, though, since there isn't much I can to about it without being turbo normalized. I did close off the overflow holes completely on the Jab air intake in an effort to maximize MAP. I have flown at 1450 lbs gross on several occasions and I'm still climbing in the neighborhood of 1200-1300 fpm. If I back off to 2650 RPM, I cruise at 125kts and my fuel burn goes down to 3.8- 4.0 gph. I have worked hard on getting the mixture well balanced between the cylinders by playing with the needle jet and needle setting, as well as the float level in the carby. I''ve also twisting the carby slightly left from vertical to even out the mixture. I now have EGT's all within about 40F of each other and my plugs are a nice tan color. I also am running the Iridium plugs now with great success. This engine will idle at about 500 rpm with the Iridium plugs and still maintain about 22psi OP. I believe I have a handle on the cooling thing on all but the hottest days, and then it's only an issue in extended climbs on the #4 cylinder. FWIW, these are the same days my Rotax buddies also have shown cooling issues in a variety of different applications, including the Europa. I did fit a larger oil cooler than what came with the engine. That proved to work very well. I never see oil temps over 190F, even on the hottest days. Fuel burn is very comparable to the 912s, too. I don't know what it is that these other Jabiropa builder/fliers are doing wrong, though. I would go so far as to say that the Jabiru is superior in a lot of ways over the 912s, particularly in terms of how smooth the engine runs and of course, price. Contrary to the blather that has been spread about the Jabiru/Europa combo on a variety of forums, I firmly believe the Jabiru is a fine alternative to the Rotax 912s, provided you follow Jabiru recommendations and undoubtedly it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the 912s on this side of the pond. The parts are also considerably cheaper, too. I'm really looking forward to the day when Airmaster finally releases the new hub that fits the Sensenich blades. IMHO, I don't think the Jabiru factory cowl set fitted to the Europa is going to work very well, though. I think it has to do with the "D" shape of the intake holes. I think Andy Silvester/Suncoast has the right combo on his cowl set with the round intake holes, but I think the head cooling ducts he sent with the engine leave a little bit to be desired. They're made from fiberglass and they tend to soften from engine heat. That has proven to be a problem and one that has caused some minor maintenance issues. I'm not sure the left duct is the right shape, either. I'm playing with Sonex style sheet metal head ducts now, but they are proving to be a real bitch to fit their odd shape to the 4" round inlets. My "proof of concept" version is going to have a lot of duct tape involved! I should have a left duct fitted later today unless it's soarable again. ;-) More testing will follow and I suspect that I will run much cooler even on hot days once I have them fitted. If it works as well as I anticipate, I'll whip out a final version and probably make a right side metal duct, too. The Sonex boys seem to have all the cooling issues licked, so that's the reason I'm trying what they do in terms of head cooling ducts to achieve a better balance on the CHT's on really hot days and in extended climbs. Below 90F I never see CHT's over 280F on either side, though, and usually in the 240-250F range. Jabiru recommends 302F CHT max for extended runs and 348F is max for short periods, like in climb. I will see 320F on #4 on a hot day in climb, but it quickly cools to 285F or so once I establish cruise. The rest stay below 300F. And before anybody chimes in and tells me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Rotax and so everybody will know I'm not pulling my Rotax numbers out of the air, I also own an Aeromot AMT 200S Super Ximango motorglider with a certified 912s installed swinging a Hoffman 3 position prop. So, I do side by side comparisons regularly and I'm very familiar with the numbers on both engines. I have about 135 hours now in the Ximango and 117 or so in the Europa, so plenty of time to compare numbers. FWIW, I like the 912s, but it is very complicated compared to the Jabiru and it shakes like hell when you first crank it up. The Jab is much easier to crank when cold. It just roars to life after a few swings of the blades without all the shaking and no choke is ever needed, even on cold days. I think the Jabiru is quieter, too. We tested it with dB meter and my neighbor's lawn mower is louder than the Jab at take off power at similar distances. Graham, in regard to your question, I already sent some Jabiropa guys over your way a fairly extensive overview of what I've done. Is there something specific that they need to know? I'm happy to share and I've got tons and tons of pictures. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:12 AM PST US From: Rowland & Wilma Carson Subject: Europa-List: Re: Wing Closing At 2007-09-24 10:28 +0100 Bill Bell wrote: >In response to your message about closing up your wings- Sorry I >couldn't reply on the list as I am not at home >As I recall, my wing tops needed some trimming but more importantly >I wish I had known about Nevilles advice on how to achieve a perfect >bond with minimum weight ; > >Have a trial fit with parcel tape stopping the flox mixture ( fairly >stiff) sticking to the top surface. Then, when it has cured ,remove >the top, tidy up the fillet of flox mix over the ribs then stick the >top on for good with a thin layer of relatively runny flox-redux >over the now-perfect fit of cured flox mix filling the gap between >the ribs and the top skin. > >Hope that version of Nevilles advice is clear (and accurate!)- one >other thing I would do if bonding on the top skin again is to use >clecos rather than weight it down - I ended up with a slight lip >needing filling despite using a lot of weight over the square >section tubing recommended in the manual. >It would be worth having a search to see if what Neville wrote >originally is around as he also had some good advice about dealing >with the mass balance weight boxes and trailing edge which I did >follow, but rather late in the process making it more difficult than >it need have been - give me a call If I can be of any help. Bill - thanks very much for your advice. I recall now that my inspector also suggested putting in temporary self-tapping screws or some such to hold it together rather than the weights, before we got on to the upside-down suggestion. I'll check the archives again for Neville's original posting. regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:26 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Dive to Vne Thanks Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:55 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dive to Vne There is a significant risk of invisible damage imho so I would not want to test to more than 3 G. Check for any permanent deflection unloaded then retest and check again that deflections remain the same. Graham William Daniell wrote: > Ah thanks now I get it next question > > It seems at first sight a sensible thing to do rather than trying to > do it in flight. I would be interested to know what everyone else > thinks. Of course there is always the possibility that your pride and > joy breaks. But probably better this than it breaks in the air > > > > Is there an instruction manual on how to go about it? > > > > Can one simulate the dive to Vne? I would assume not but perhaps some > parts of it can be simulated in separate operations as it were?? > > > > Will > > > > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Grass > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 19, 2007 23:06 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Dive to Vne > > > > William, > > > > If you do the math: > > 2 times 1350Kg = 2700 kg or around 5940pounds > > > > This would be about the designed max +3.8 G as specified by Europa plus > about a 15 % safety factor > > > > > > Just guessing > > > > Michael Grass > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* William Daniell > > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:15 PM > > *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Dive to Vne > > > > Forgive my ignorance but why 1350kg? > > Will > > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *UVTReith@aol.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 19, 2007 16:35 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Dive to Vne > > > > Here in Germany we do not do that Vne Dive Test, we are making the > static wing load test with maximum 1.350 kg laod on each wing (upside > down). On the tailwing we put 100 kg on one side and 150 kg on the other > side and swap that then. > > > > This is a requirement from the OUV (the German PFA). > > > > > > Bruno > > > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > > > 9/18/2007 11:53 > > > 9/18/2007 11:53 > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * * > > > > 9/18/2007 11:53 > > > 9/18/2007 11:53 > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 12:07 11:27 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:45 AM PST US From: frank wood Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers HI, My Europa Classis has similar performance with a Jabiru 3300 and Prince P-Tip prop,my cooling problems are still with me, but not so severe, after Sylvester switched engines for me.As you are aware the later model Jabs have larger cooling fins on the heads as well as other mods.Sylvester used my A-026 to make his cowling and test for cooling,he indicated to me that the cooling issue appears to be solved after testing in the central Florida climate,it certainly took him quite a while, here in Southern Alberta (Pincher Creek) I still get minor problems on warmer days during climb out, but it is getting better with more time on the engine, also we are at 3900ft elev which I am certain impedes cooling.I have not had problems with the cooling air pleniums,I also thought of trying an airmaster C.S.prop but am not sure if it has enough twist at the hub to force the air through and as the Prince seems to be almost doing the job I am going to leave it for a while to see what happens when I have 250+hrs Hope this helps Frank S Wood C-FIYD ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers In a message dated 9/24/2007 2:58:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Would you care to share any precise speed measurements (3 GPS runs, max take off weight, record of altitude, OAT, etc.) ? My Jabiru buddies are getting soooo discreet when it comes to actual performance ;-( Hi Gilles, Sure, I've done many, many speed measurements, especially lately with all the flow testing I've been doing on the wings and I'm happy to share my numbers. Mine is a trigear with an empty weight of 909lbs. The C of G is a little over 60". Typically what I see on a 75F day is 134 kts in cruise at 2850 rpm at 3500' burning 4.6gph according to my Grand Rapids fuel flow meter. One recent cross country flight I saw a TAS of 148kts at 7500' at the same throttle setting. This is with a fixed pitch Sensenich hollow carbon prop pitched as far as I can go and still operate safely out of my 2200' strip, 700' msl, with two on board, full fuel and baggage. I don't pay much attention to MAP, though, since there isn't much I can to about it without being turbo normalized. I did close off the overflow holes completely on the Jab air intake in an effort to maximize MAP. I have flown at 1450 lbs gross on several occasions and I'm still climbing in the neighborhood of 1200-1300 fpm. If I back off to 2650 RPM, I cruise at 125kts and my fuel burn goes down to 3.8- 4.0 gph. I have worked hard on getting the mixture well balanced between the cylinders by playing with the needle jet and needle setting, as well as the float level in the carby. I''ve also twisting the carby slightly left from vertical to even out the mixture. I now have EGT's all within about 40F of each other and my plugs are a nice tan color. I also am running the Iridium plugs now with great success. This engine will idle at about 500 rpm with the Iridium plugs and still maintain about 22psi OP. I believe I have a handle on the cooling thing on all but the hottest days, and then it's only an issue in extended climbs on the #4 cylinder. FWIW, these are the same days my Rotax buddies also have shown cooling issues in a variety of different applications, including the Europa. I did fit a larger oil cooler than what came with the engine. That proved to work very well. I never see oil temps over 190F, even on the hottest days. Fuel burn is very comparable to the 912s, too. I don't know what it is that these other Jabiropa builder/fliers are doing wrong, though. I would go so far as to say that the Jabiru is superior in a lot of ways over the 912s, particularly in terms of how smooth the engine runs and of course, price. Contrary to the blather that has been spread about the Jabiru/Europa combo on a variety of forums, I firmly believe the Jabiru is a fine alternative to the Rotax 912s, provided you follow Jabiru recommendations and undoubtedly it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the 912s on this side of the pond. The parts are also considerably cheaper, too. I'm really looking forward to the day when Airmaster finally releases the new hub that fits the Sensenich blades. IMHO, I don't think the Jabiru factory cowl set fitted to the Europa is going to work very well, though. I think it has to do with the "D" shape of the intake holes. I think Andy Silvester/Suncoast has the right combo on his cowl set with the round intake holes, but I think the head cooling ducts he sent with the engine leave a little bit to be desired. They're made from fiberglass and they tend to soften from engine heat. That has proven to be a problem and one that has caused some minor maintenance issues. I'm not sure the left duct is the right shape, either. I'm playing with Sonex style sheet metal head ducts now, but they are proving to be a real bitch to fit their odd shape to the 4" round inlets. My "proof of concept" version is going to have a lot of duct tape involved! I should have a left duct fitted later today unless it's soarable again. ;-) More testing will follow and I suspect that I will run much cooler even on hot days once I have them fitted. If it works as well as I anticipate, I'll whip out a final version and probably make a right side metal duct, too. The Sonex boys seem to have all the cooling issues licked, so that's the reason I'm trying what they do in terms of head cooling ducts to achieve a better balance on the CHT's on really hot days and in extended climbs. Below 90F I never see CHT's over 280F on either side, though, and usually in the 240-250F range. Jabiru recommends 302F CHT max for extended runs and 348F is max for short periods, like in climb. I will see 320F on #4 on a hot day in climb, but it quickly cools to 285F or so once I establish cruise. The rest stay below 300F. And before anybody chimes in and tells me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Rotax and so everybody will know I'm not pulling my Rotax numbers out of the air, I also own an Aeromot AMT 200S Super Ximango motorglider with a certified 912s installed swinging a Hoffman 3 position prop. So, I do side by side comparisons regularly and I'm very familiar with the numbers on both engines. I have about 135 hours now in the Ximango and 117 or so in the Europa, so plenty of time to compare numbers. FWIW, I like the 912s, but it is very complicated compared to the Jabiru and it shakes like hell when you first crank it up. The Jab is much easier to crank when cold. It just roars to life after a few swings of the blades without all the shaking and no choke is ever needed, even on cold days. I think the Jabiru is quieter, too. We tested it with dB meter and my neighbor's lawn mower is louder than the Jab at take off power at similar distances. Graham, in regard to your question, I already sent some Jabiropa guys over your way a fairly extensive overview of what I've done. Is there something specific that they need to know? I'm happy to share and I've got tons and tons of pictures. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" I neglected to mention that when we closed off our gills we also opened up the lower cowl exit area and baffled the area between the foot wells to force air from the eye ball inlets down past the cylinders, then the muffler, and finally out the bottom of the cowl. This dropped in-cowl temps from 450 deg F to about 250 max and lowered oil temps in climb by 20 deg F. Regards, Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan & Ami McFadyean Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit --> <> I tried that. It made no difference to CHT, oil or water temps. But why would it; those systems are cooled independently to what goes on under the cowl. However, (with the 912S air shroud fitted) the cylinder wall temperatures went up SUBSTANTIALLY. So much so that I could easily believe that on a hot day and an extended full power climbout they would quickly exceed the maximum permitted (190C). Fortunately, I never experienced that configuration before finding out this. By closing the gills, 'competition' for cowl exit area is increased. On the other hand, the temparature of the alternator regultator didn't seem to be affected at all. Duncan Mcf. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Seaver (terrys) Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:39 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit I believe the biggest improvement in reducing drag would be found in the engine cowl area. Closing off the gills would be the first thing (they add no value to the plane). Second would be to clean up the radiator opening and following duct, it is too large for the size of this engine and is rather messy. Then clean up the radiator exit, it is very messy back there. We carefully installed the Kim Prout main gear fairings and saw ZERO improvement in cruise speed, which leads me to believe that the lower cowl exit is so turbulent that fairing in the main gear (or even retracting it) has little value. A magazine flight test on the Europa motor glider reported that there was no improvement in glide performance gear up vs gear down, which further supports my suspicion on the cowl problems. regards, Terry Seaver N135TD, XS mono-wheel with 912S. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit From: "josok" Hi Terry, [quote:ffc914ab8d="terrys at cisco.com"] I neglected to mention that when we closed off our gills we also opened up the lower cowl exit area and baffled the area between the foot wells -----[/quote:ffc914ab8d] Interesting, How did you do that opening up, is it possible for you to attach a picture (or 2) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Jos, I don't have any pictures, but I will try to describe the mod to you. The top of the radiator duct is a sheet of aluminum (lets call it the 'separator') that splits the cowl into two areas, the lower area is for the radiators, the top area contains everything else (engine, muffler, etc.). The lower area has the big square inlet opening, the top area has two eyeball inlets. In the stock condition, the lower aft exit is used for both (ignoring the gills), strongly favoring the lower radiator area, with just small openings in the sides for air to exit from the top area. Lying under the rear of the cowl, I used a 'nibbler' to remove material from the rear of the 'separator', allowing more air from the top area into the common exit. I probably removed about three inches off the rear of the 'separator'. The intent was to provide an exit area for the top portion of the cowl that was about 150% of the eyeball inlet area. I hope this helps, Regards, Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel speed kit Hi Terry, [quote:ffc914ab8d="terrys at cisco.com"] I neglected to mention that when we closed off our gills we also opened up the lower cowl exit area and baffled the area between the foot wells -----[/quote:ffc914ab8d] Interesting, How did you do that opening up, is it possible for you to attach a picture (or 2) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:56 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: radio I've done something stupid but can't work out what. I have a microair 760 radio wired through an XCOM intercom. Fired it all up for the first time this evening. To my great surprise it all worked (almost). Radio receives fine. Intercom works a treat. Even the music input works. However when I press the PTT (either P1 or P2) a get a loud buzzing in the headphones - the radio also transmits this buzzing. It does this even without a mic plugged in. Anyone suggest what I've done? Regards Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:25 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers > Sure, I've done many, many speed measurements, especially lately with > all the flow testing I've been doing on the wings and I'm happy to > share my numbers. Mine is a trigear with an empty weight of 909lbs. > The C of G is a little over 60". Typically what I see on a 75F day is > 134 kts in cruise at 2850 rpm at 3500' burning 4.6gph according to my > Grand Rapids fuel flow meter. One recent cross country flight I saw a > TAS of 148kts at 7500' at the same throttle setting..... > > I have flown at 1450 lbs gross on several occasions and I'm still > climbing in the neighborhood of 1200-1300 fpm. If I back off to 2650 > RPM, I cruise at 125kts and my fuel burn goes down to 3.8- 4.0 gph. I > have worked hard on getting the mixture well balanced between the > cylinders by playing with the needle jet and needle setting, as well > as the float level in the carby. I''ve also twisting the carby > slightly left from vertical to even out the mixture. I now have EGT's > all within about 40F of each other and my plugs are a nice tan color. > I also am running the Iridium plugs now with great success. This > engine will idle at about 500 rpm with the Iridium plugs and still > maintain about 22psi OP. I believe I have a handle on the cooling > thing on all but the hottest days, and then it's only an issue in > extended climbs on the #4 cylinder. John, Thank you for providing those much interesting numbers. Very interesting data, indeed, and I'm sure many homebuilder will be interested in how you achieved a successful engine installation. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:28 PM PST US From: "Karl Heindl" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane integrity suggestion Hi George, I aim to replace my TP5/TP6 with a one-piece aluminum tube from ACS, without cutting into the taillplane, but by careful heat application. I have all I need to do the job, but haven't had the time to try it out, as I'm busy fitting glider wings. If it works I'll write it up if anyone else wants to do the same. Karl >From: "G&TPowell" >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane integrity suggestion >Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:54:42 +0300 > > > >I received several responses to my post a few days ago concerning the >binding problem I am having with my torque tube (i.e., inability to fit >into TP6 bushing). Phil advised that early versions of TP4 and the bushes >were ground to match each other, rather that to standard drawing >dimensions. I tried the other TP4 I have (the one installed on the plane) >and it fit better, actually allowing me to get the starboard tailplane all >the way on TP4 on the shop bench and seated into the TP13 bushes. > >Unfortunately, I cannot get the tailplane on when TP4 is mounted on the >fuselage, it is so tight. When I checked the port tailplane (and opened up >the surface to reveal the TP6 bushing) it was clear on visual inspection >that the TP6 was out of alignment by at least a millimeter. (These >tailplanes were purchased from a charity which obtained them from an >estate, so I do not know the provenance of the construction). > >I will definitely have to remove/reseat the TP6 bushing on the port >tailplane, and probably the starboard as well. > >A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one piece, >the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those >bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2 bushes >a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of >alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be. > >Any thoughts on this suggestion? If I have to remove or reset both >bushings in both tailplanes, it seems efficient to just replace both with a >single tube, and guarantee the integrity of the tailplane retention (at >least with respect to the possible unbonding of TP6). > >Also, any suggestions on the proper technique to remove the bonded-in TP6 >and TP5 bushes without damaging the surrounding material would be >appreciated. > >Thanks, > >George Powell > > >Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > _________________________________________________________________ Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live - http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:12 PM PST US From: Rob Housman Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane integrity suggestion Beware. Aluminum has a tendency to gall, so if the fit is at all snug (which it should be) and the torque tube is not lubricated, the tailplane may not slide into place over the nickel plated tailplane torque tube as easily as it does with steel TP5/TP6. Once it jams it will be rather difficult to get free. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete > > >Hi George, > >I aim to replace my TP5/TP6 with a one-piece aluminum tube from ACS, without >cutting into the taillplane, but by careful heat application. I have all I >need to do the job, but haven't had the time to try it out, as I'm busy >fitting glider wings. If it works I'll write it up if anyone else wants to >do the same. > >Karl > > >>From: "G&TPowell" >>To: europa-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane integrity suggestion >>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:54:42 +0300 >> >> >> >>I received several responses to my post a few days ago concerning the >>binding problem I am having with my torque tube (i.e., inability to fit >>into TP6 bushing). Phil advised that early versions of TP4 and the bushes >>were ground to match each other, rather that to standard drawing >>dimensions. I tried the other TP4 I have (the one installed on the plane) >>and it fit better, actually allowing me to get the starboard tailplane all >>the way on TP4 on the shop bench and seated into the TP13 bushes. >> >>Unfortunately, I cannot get the tailplane on when TP4 is mounted on the >>fuselage, it is so tight. When I checked the port tailplane (and opened up >>the surface to reveal the TP6 bushing) it was clear on visual inspection >>that the TP6 was out of alignment by at least a millimeter. (These >>tailplanes were purchased from a charity which obtained them from an >>estate, so I do not know the provenance of the construction). >> >>I will definitely have to remove/reseat the TP6 bushing on the port >>tailplane, and probably the starboard as well. >> >>A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one piece, >>the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those >>bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2 bushes >>a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of >>alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be. >> >>Any thoughts on this suggestion? If I have to remove or reset both >>bushings in both tailplanes, it seems efficient to just replace both with a >>single tube, and guarantee the integrity of the tailplane retention (at >>least with respect to the possible unbonding of TP6). >> >>Also, any suggestions on the proper technique to remove the bonded-in TP6 >>and TP5 bushes without damaging the surrounding material would be >>appreciated. >> >>Thanks, >> >>George Powell >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live - >http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:51 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers John thanks a lot for that. There are three or four Jabiropas here. One I know of is very happy but the others less so. My main question is do you have any baffles to force the cooling air throught the fins, or do you rely on the pressure in the plenums? My friends are using deflectors rather than baffles which I feel is a bit imprecise. I am more familiar with the sort of baffles EZ guys use on Lyconental engines where careful baffling works well. The Jabiru agents here in UK do not seem to have much in the way of good ideas. Graham > > Graham, in regard to your question, I already sent some Jabiropa guys > over your way a fairly extensive overview of what I've done. Is there > something specific that they need to know? I'm happy to share and I've > got tons and tons of pictures. > > Regards, > > John Lawton > Whitwell, TN (TN89) > N245E - Flying > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:31 PM PST US From: frank wood Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers Hi to all..re Jabiru performance.To add to my prior comments on this forum.Any other Canadians may come across the same problems I had with Transport Canada (aviation MDRA).With Sylvesters cowling fitted the datum on the front of the cowling is advanced by approx 5 inches compared to a Rotax.This led to some very interesting numbers when calculating the weight and balances with max fuel two standard as speced occupants and examples of max fwd and max aft loadings when providing examples as required to fit in the envelope.Additional remarks about the Jabiru Europa combo are my empty weight is 890 lbs but I have yet to fit the wheel pants and fairings,yet my speed and fuel consumption are almost identical to Johns.I would appreciate any comments about the virtues of another prop.I spent some time resetting the Grand Rapids EFIS system but it seems to be correct now,had some problems with my Garmin GPS,a new aerial fixed that,but the Jabiru is vibration free and the sound it makes, well it is a purr that is a pleasure to behold,unlike any other it is the closest thing to poetry in motion that I know of.Canadian MDRA required that I change the clasps on the seat belts to the pull up to release type,the flex fuel hosing that is fine in the U.S.does not cut the mustard up here and in line fuel filters of the element type are an absolute no-no. Any Europa owners that are visiting out this way are welcome to contact me for a flight in the Rockies.Near us, in a valley is a particularly lofty mountain with a hole all the way through it, near the peak,my aviation pal with an RV6 swears that he could fly through it if he can tilt 90 deg first,I will send a picture to the Europa mag of the hole and mountain only. Frank S Wood C-FIYD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Thesee" Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiriopa performance numbers > > > >> Sure, I've done many, many speed measurements, especially lately with all >> the flow testing I've been doing on the wings and I'm happy to share my >> numbers. Mine is a trigear with an empty weight of 909lbs. The C of G >> is a little over 60". Typically what I see on a 75F day is 134 kts in >> cruise at 2850 rpm at 3500' burning 4.6gph according to my Grand Rapids >> fuel flow meter. One recent cross country flight I saw a TAS of 148kts at >> 7500' at the same throttle setting..... >> I have flown at 1450 lbs gross on several occasions and I'm still >> climbing in the neighborhood of 1200-1300 fpm. If I back off to 2650 RPM, >> I cruise at 125kts and my fuel burn goes down to 3.8- 4.0 gph. I have >> worked hard on getting the mixture well balanced between the cylinders by >> playing with the needle jet and needle setting, as well as the float >> level in the carby. I''ve also twisting the carby slightly left from >> vertical to even out the mixture. I now have EGT's all within about 40F >> of each other and my plugs are a nice tan color. I also am running the >> Iridium plugs now with great success. This engine will idle at about 500 >> rpm with the Iridium plugs and still maintain about 22psi OP. I believe >> I have a handle on the cooling thing on all but the hottest days, and >> then it's only an issue in extended climbs on the #4 cylinder. > > John, > > Thank you for providing those much interesting numbers. > Very interesting data, indeed, and I'm sure many homebuilder will be > interested in how you achieved a successful engine installation. > > Best regards, > -- > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:23 PM PST US From: "Karl Heindl" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane integrity suggestion Hi Rob, Thanks for the warning. I have already tried that out and the tubes slide over very easily without play. I always keep the TP4's well lubricated anyway, mainly to avoid corrosion, which I had noticed on the factory demonstrators ; they are only nickel plated, anyway. Aluminum makes a far better bond with epoxies than stainless steel. My TP5's had already disbonded once from trailering. When I removed the tailplanes after a busy flying season, I noticed that there was no friction whatsoever between the pip pins and the assembly, so I don't really understand all the fuss about these mysterious forces that rip out the TP6. That accident was caused by something else entirely. Regards, Karl >From: Rob Housman >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane integrity suggestion >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:53:54 -0400 > > >Beware. Aluminum has a tendency to gall, so if the fit is at all snug >(which it should be) and the torque tube is not lubricated, the tailplane >may not slide into place over the nickel plated tailplane torque tube as >easily as it does with steel TP5/TP6. Once it jams it will be rather >difficult to get free. > >Best regards, > >Rob Housman >Irvine, California >Europa XS Tri-Gear >S/N A070 >Airframe complete > > > > > > >Hi George, > > > >I aim to replace my TP5/TP6 with a one-piece aluminum tube from ACS, >without > >cutting into the taillplane, but by careful heat application. I have all >I > >need to do the job, but haven't had the time to try it out, as I'm busy > >fitting glider wings. If it works I'll write it up if anyone else wants >to > >do the same. > > > >Karl > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: "G&TPowell" > >>To: europa-list@matronics.com > >>Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane integrity suggestion > >>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:54:42 +0300 > >> > >> > >> > >>I received several responses to my post a few days ago concerning the > >>binding problem I am having with my torque tube (i.e., inability to fit > >>into TP6 bushing). Phil advised that early versions of TP4 and the >bushes > >>were ground to match each other, rather that to standard drawing > >>dimensions. I tried the other TP4 I have (the one installed on the >plane) > >>and it fit better, actually allowing me to get the starboard tailplane >all > >>the way on TP4 on the shop bench and seated into the TP13 bushes. > >> > >>Unfortunately, I cannot get the tailplane on when TP4 is mounted on the > >>fuselage, it is so tight. When I checked the port tailplane (and opened >up > >>the surface to reveal the TP6 bushing) it was clear on visual inspection > >>that the TP6 was out of alignment by at least a millimeter. (These > >>tailplanes were purchased from a charity which obtained them from an > >>estate, so I do not know the provenance of the construction). > >> > >>I will definitely have to remove/reseat the TP6 bushing on the port > >>tailplane, and probably the starboard as well. > >> > >>A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one >piece, > >>the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those > >>bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2 >bushes > >>a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of > >>alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be. > >> > >>Any thoughts on this suggestion? If I have to remove or reset both > >>bushings in both tailplanes, it seems efficient to just replace both >with a > >>single tube, and guarantee the integrity of the tailplane retention (at > >>least with respect to the possible unbonding of TP6). > >> > >>Also, any suggestions on the proper technique to remove the bonded-in >TP6 > >>and TP5 bushes without damaging the surrounding material would be > >>appreciated. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>George Powell > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live - > >http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge http://www.backofmyhand.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:41 PM PST US From: "Richard Pottorff" Subject: Europa-List: More on VNE Here's a link to another VNE article. It also explains that just because Vne is a red line on an ASI that it is not a constant speed, unvarying with altitude. In fact, it decrease roughly 1.5% per 1000 feet of altitude. Stall speed changes with the airplane's load, and yet the stall speeds are marked on the ASI. http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf By the way, Wikipedia doesn't vouch for the information contained on its site, so its meaningless to me as far as trying to prove assertions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.