Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:47 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) (David Joyce)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 (Steve Pitt)
3. 06:37 AM - Jab cooling (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 (josok)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: Jab cooling (Al Stills)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Jab cooling ()
7. 09:25 AM - Re: Jab cooling (D.Hetrick)
8. 10:16 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com)
9. 11:09 AM - Re: Jab cooling (Fred Klein)
10. 12:52 PM - Re: Jab cooling (Gilles Thesee)
11. 01:50 PM - Constant Speed newbie question (steve v)
12. 01:54 PM - Re: Constant Speed newbie question (Richard Holder)
13. 02:05 PM - Re: Jab cooling (Graham Singleton)
14. 03:14 PM - CS Propeller Weight (Carl Pattinson)
15. 03:29 PM - Re: CS Propeller Weight (Jeff B)
16. 07:20 PM - Re: Jab cooling (Rick Stockton)
17. 11:02 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
18. 11:06 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) |
John, You may be interested in the attached flight test data for William
Mills' comparison of his Woodcomp SR2000 and a SR3000. Regards, David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: <JohnDHeykoop@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410,
IMG_0411)
>
> In a message dated 23/09/2007 18:04:27 GMT Standard Time,
> carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk writes:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I noticed your ac is fitted with the Woodcomp Scimitar blades.
>
> What prompted your choice (presumably over the Airmaster) and how are you
> finding it. Is there any noticeable improvement in performance.
> Are you using the Woodcomp or the Smart cotroller.
>
> We are currently looking to fit a replacement prop and the scimitar blade
is
>
> something of a rarity amongst Europas. In fact William Mills was the only
> other one I was aware of.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G_LABS
>
> PS: any problem with the PFA approving the installation.
>
>
> Carl & others interested in Woodcomp Scimitar blades for the monowheel
Europa
>
> I too was briefly interested in the Woodcomp propeller with scimitar
blades,
> but have now bought an Airmaster propeller. In the UK the 65" (1650mm)
> diameter of the Woodcomp scimitar blades is an issue, the normal maximum
for the
> monowheel Europa being 64" (1625mm). William Mills had scimitar blades
fitted
> to his mono, but according to the PFA his propeller was only 63" . I
suppose
> William's propeller must have been an early prototype.
>
> The PFA will only allow you to fit a propeller of more than 64" diameter
if
> you can show compliance with CS-VLA925. In order to do that you will have
to
> demonstrate that the ground clearance from the propeller tip, with the
> aircraft fully loaded, in a level attitude and with a flat tyre, is at
least 230mm.
> You don't actually have to deflate the tyre, for you can simply subtract
the
> distance from the rim to the ground from your ground clearance
measurement.
>
> If you think the scimitar blades are worth all this hassle it would be
> prudent to make sure that you are going to get at least 230mm ground
clearance
> before you place an order. That means doing the measurements twice, once
before
> you order the propeller, and the second time once you have the scimitar
> blades fitted.
>
> You can, of course, buy the Woodcomp propeller with standard blades. If
you
> go this route, get one with the Smart Avionics controller. Woodcomp know
how
> to make good propellers, but their controller has a poor reputation.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> John
> Europa XS monowheel G-JHKP (Rotax 912S + Airmaster CS, 2200 build hours
> todate - hopefully I will be flying next summer)
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 |
Jos, you mentioned that the Airmaster was heavier than the Woodcomp. On the
Conair sports website Woodcomp is shown as 12.95 KG as against 12.1 KG on
the Europa 2004 site for the Airmaster? What am I reading wrong?
Any advice you can give me would be appreciated.
Regards
Steve Pitt
G-SMDH
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In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the
front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of
larger size, and the efficiency will be lower.
But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a
little more drag, of course.
Hi Gilles and all,
I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my left
cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on average, a 25F
drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated the airflow
entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and went from being the
second hottest of the six to the coolest. Interestingly, the engine is now
running in the 240F-260F range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure did not change!
This has left me with the impression that all this talk about 6" of water
column being needed for adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put forth by
the engine manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet.
I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about 250F.
The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of WC at
cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F, down from 295F
on
the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the left is now 235F, down
from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my testing results indicate that
pressure is the absence of flow, not a sign of flow. Internal cooling duct
pressure, measured against static pressure inside the cowl, seems to be have an
inverse relationship to flow, if indeed it has any relationship at all. My
test results show pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're after.
I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around my
intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't think of a
way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer. Should make for
quite a conversation piece, don't you think?
Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his Europa
cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to try and find out
what the difference between the two really is. The only thing I notice is
the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front of the cowl than mine
do., I think this has something to do with the pressure wave I've observed in
front of my left intake with my crude string tests. So Gilles, you are likley
correct in your analysis.
FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter, not
cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with anything
Sonex has to say.
The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just outside
the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't say for better
PRESSURE?)
Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings.......
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 |
Hi Steve,
That's strange, The SR3000 is quoted on the Woodcomp site as 12 kg. I remembered
to have seen some 30% ! weight difference. Must have been looking in the wrong
place. But i still, after 47 hrs, think it's a very nice behaving propeller.
i have been up FL128, where the coarse limit was met with 135 knots IAS. Forgot
the reverse switch in unreverse, max rev only 4400 and still got airborne
and climbing with 2 pax on board. Nice test, although it came unexpectedly :-)
The position of that switch is now on the checklist. And, as i said before, it's
smooth, you would have to feel the difference! Maybe, if the weather and paperwork
allows, i will visit the UK on our holiday. Will keep you posted!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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John,
Do you think you could take p picture and attach it so we could see the tape
on the front of the cowls.
Al Stills
N625Az
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:30 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Jab cooling
In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the
front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of
larger size, and the efficiency will be lower.
But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a
little more drag, of course.
Hi Gilles and all,
I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my left
cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on average, a
25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated the airflow
entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and went from being
the second hottest of the six to the coolest. Interestingly, the engine is
now running in the 240F-260F range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure did
not change! This has left me with the impression that all this talk about 6"
of water column being needed for adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put
forth by the engine manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet.
I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about 250F.
The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of WC at
cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F, down from
295F on the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the left is now 235F,
down from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my testing results indicate
that pressure is the absence of flow, not a sign of flow. Internal cooling
duct pressure, measured against static pressure inside the cowl, seems to be
have an inverse relationship to flow, if indeed it has any relationship at
all. My test results show pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're
after.
I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around my
intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't think of
a way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer. Should make for
quite a conversation piece, don't you think?
Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his Europa
cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to try and find
out what the difference between the two really is. The only thing I notice
is the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front of the cowl than
mine do., I think this has something to do with the pressure wave I've
observed in front of my left intake with my crude string tests. So Gilles,
you are likley correct in your analysis.
FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter, not
cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with
anything Sonex has to say.
The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just outside
the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't say for better
PRESSURE?)
Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings.......
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
_____
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
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Hi John,
Could you provide a picture of your turbulator please?
Thanks
Brian
G-BYFG
XS trigear, Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Jab cooling
In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the
front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be
of
larger size, and the efficiency will be lower.
But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price
of a
little more drag, of course.
Hi Gilles and all,
I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my
left cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on
average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated
the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and
went from being the second hottest of the six to the coolest.
Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F range on all
CHT's, but the delta pressure did not change! This has left me with the
impression that all this talk about 6" of water column being needed for
adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put forth by the engine
manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet.
I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about
250F. The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of
WC at cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F,
down from 295F on the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the
left is now 235F, down from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my
testing results indicate that pressure is the absence of flow, not a
sign of flow. Internal cooling duct pressure, measured against static
pressure inside the cowl, seems to be have an inverse relationship to
flow, if indeed it has any relationship at all. My test results show
pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're after.
I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around
my intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't
think of a way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer.
Should make for quite a conversation piece, don't you think?
Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his
Europa cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to
try and find out what the difference between the two really is. The only
thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front
of the cowl than mine do., I think this has something to do with the
pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with my crude
string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your analysis.
FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter,
not cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with
anything Sonex has to say.
The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just
outside the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't
say for better PRESSURE?)
Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings.......
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
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9/29/2007 21:46
Message 7
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Hi John,
I want to add to Al Stills request of showing us how you made and
installed the turbulators. Sounds like an interesting approach to my
cooling problems. I did put an "eyebrow" on the left air intake but it
didn't seem to make much difference.
Thank you.
Dale Hetrick
----- Original Message -----
From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:30 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Jab cooling
In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the
front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be
of
larger size, and the efficiency will be lower.
But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price
of a
little more drag, of course.
Hi Gilles and all,
I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my
left cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on
average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated
the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and
went from being the second hottest of the six to the coolest.
Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F range on all
CHT's, but the delta pressure did not change! This has left me with the
impression that all this talk about 6" of water column being needed for
adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put forth by the engine
manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet.
I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about
250F. The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of
WC at cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F,
down from 295F on the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the
left is now 235F, down from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my
testing results indicate that pressure is the absence of flow, not a
sign of flow. Internal cooling duct pressure, measured against static
pressure inside the cowl, seems to be have an inverse relationship to
flow, if indeed it has any relationship at all. My test results show
pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're after.
I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around
my intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't
think of a way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer.
Should make for quite a conversation piece, don't you think?
Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his
Europa cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to
try and find out what the difference between the two really is. The only
thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front
of the cowl than mine do., I think this has something to do with the
pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with my crude
string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your analysis.
FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter,
not cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with
anything Sonex has to say.
The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just
outside the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't
say for better PRESSURE?)
Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings.......
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) |
In a message dated 01/10/2007 10:48:44 GMT Standard Time,
davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk writes:
John, You may be interested in the attached flight test data for William
Mills' comparison of his Woodcomp SR2000 and a SR3000. Regards, David Joyce
Thanks David. I had seen these flight test data (I think they were attached
to one of William's postings). The figures for the SR3000/3 look pretty good.
However, as mentioned earlier, the 1650mm diameter issue caused me to buy an
Airmaster propeller instead.
John
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> In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> europa-list@matronics.com writes:
>
> Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the
> front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of
> larger size, and the efficiency will be lower.
> But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a
> little more drag, of course.
On Monday, October 1, 2007, at 06:30 AM, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> -
> I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my
> left cooling intake and they-worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on
> average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have
> turbulated the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder
> dropped-45F and went from being the-second hottest of the six to the
> coolest.-Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F
> range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure-did not change!
> Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his
> Europa cowl set. I've studied close up-pictures of the Lancair cowl to
> try and find out what the difference between the two really-is. The
> only thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about-1"-farther i
n
> front of the cowl than mine do.,- I think this has something to do
> with the pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with
> my crude string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your
> analysis.
As a (at this point at least) probable Jab buyer, I've been following
this thread w/ interest. Up til now, I had assumed that the difference
between right and left side cooling issues was a consequence of the
difference in prop wash. I've also assumed that references to "right"
and "left" were to starboard and port, i.e., as seen from the cockpit
rather than say from the front of the engine looking aft. I believe
that the protrusions around the circumference of the Lancair cowl
inlets are intended to minimize the effects of prop wash on air
entering the inlets. Also, from the pictures I've seen of the
Suncoast/Jab air ducting, it appears that the port and starboard ducts
have identical (but opposite hand) shapes which do not appear to factor
in the front to rear offsets of the port/starboard cylinder banks.
It just now occurs to me (after reviewing Giles's Contrails articles
referenced previously) that the difference in distance between the
inlets and the first cylinders seen by air entering the port and
starboard ducts may be of equal or even greater importance...and may be
the source of the differential in port/starboard cooling effectiveness.
This is conjecture on my part, and of course no substitute for the
rigorous testing John L. has done; still, it might be nice to get to
the heart of the problem. Please comment at will!
Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in
french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in
english?
Fred
A194
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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Fred Klein a crit :
> Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in
> french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in english?
Fred,
In the future all the articles will be in English. But it takes time for
a non natural English speaker/writer.
Now if there is a massive demand about a specific page, I might put it
on the front burner...
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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Subject: | Constant Speed newbie question |
Hi,
While waiting for my constant speed to arrive, i have been
looking at the manifold preassure gauges and found that
they are available withe different scales - 35" or 50" FSD,
cannont find any reference anywhere on manufactures blurb
or the rotax installation manual as to which is needed,
i've got the run of the mill standard 912S, can anyone
shed any light?
Steve Vestuti #573 G-CEBV
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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Subject: | Re: Constant Speed newbie question |
35 is fine, 50 only needed for 914 - the turbo !
Normal pressure is as high as it goes with the 912S -
around 30.
steve v wrote:
>
> Hi,
> While waiting for my constant speed to arrive, i have been
> looking at the manifold preassure gauges and found that
> they are available withe different scales - 35" or 50" FSD,
> cannont find any reference anywhere on manufactures blurb
> or the rotax installation manual as to which is needed,
> i've got the run of the mill standard 912S, can anyone
> shed any light?
>
> Steve Vestuti #573 G-CEBV
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Gilles
you are a gentleman. Your english is as good as mine! Wish my french was
half as good {{:-(
Graham
Gilles Thesee wrote:
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Fred Klein a crit :
>
>> Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in
>> french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in english?
>
>
> Fred,
>
> In the future all the articles will be in English. But it takes time for
> a non natural English speaker/writer.
> Now if there is a massive demand about a specific page, I might put it
> on the front burner...
>
> Best regards,
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
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Subject: | CS Propeller Weight |
How much weight does adding a CS/ VP propeller actually add to an installation.
For example an average VP prop is about 12.3 kg but if you are removing a ground
adjustable prop what is the actual weight increase.
I don't really want to remove our fixed prop to find out so does anyone know how
much a standard Warp Drive assembly weighs.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137506#137506
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: CS Propeller Weight |
Carl,
I believe that the Warp Drive is around 7 lbs...
Jeff
Carl Pattinson wrote:
>
> How much weight does adding a CS/ VP propeller actually add to an installation.
>
> For example an average VP prop is about 12.3 kg but if you are removing a ground
adjustable prop what is the actual weight increase.
>
> I don't really want to remove our fixed prop to find out so does anyone know
how much a standard Warp Drive assembly weighs.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137506#137506
>
>
>
Message 16
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BabelFish works fairly well.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
Fred Klein a crit :
> Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in
> french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in english?
Fred,
In the future all the articles will be in English. But it takes time for
a non natural English speaker/writer.
Now if there is a massive demand about a specific page, I might put it
on the front burner...
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 17
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Subject: | Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Europa-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Europa-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
europa-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "europa-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Europa-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Europa-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/europa-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Europa-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Europa-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Europa-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Europa-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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