---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/01/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:47 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) (David Joyce) 2. 06:16 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 (Steve Pitt) 3. 06:37 AM - Jab cooling (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 4. 07:19 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 (josok) 5. 07:19 AM - Re: Jab cooling (Al Stills) 6. 09:02 AM - Re: Jab cooling () 7. 09:25 AM - Re: Jab cooling (D.Hetrick) 8. 10:16 AM - Re: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com) 9. 11:09 AM - Re: Jab cooling (Fred Klein) 10. 12:52 PM - Re: Jab cooling (Gilles Thesee) 11. 01:50 PM - Constant Speed newbie question (steve v) 12. 01:54 PM - Re: Constant Speed newbie question (Richard Holder) 13. 02:05 PM - Re: Jab cooling (Graham Singleton) 14. 03:14 PM - CS Propeller Weight (Carl Pattinson) 15. 03:29 PM - Re: CS Propeller Weight (Jeff B) 16. 07:20 PM - Re: Jab cooling (Rick Stockton) 17. 11:02 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 18. 11:06 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:38 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) John, You may be interested in the attached flight test data for William Mills' comparison of his Woodcomp SR2000 and a SR3000. Regards, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:19 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) > > In a message dated 23/09/2007 18:04:27 GMT Standard Time, > carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk writes: > > Hi Bob, > > I noticed your ac is fitted with the Woodcomp Scimitar blades. > > What prompted your choice (presumably over the Airmaster) and how are you > finding it. Is there any noticeable improvement in performance. > Are you using the Woodcomp or the Smart cotroller. > > We are currently looking to fit a replacement prop and the scimitar blade is > > something of a rarity amongst Europas. In fact William Mills was the only > other one I was aware of. > > Carl Pattinson > G_LABS > > PS: any problem with the PFA approving the installation. > > > Carl & others interested in Woodcomp Scimitar blades for the monowheel Europa > > I too was briefly interested in the Woodcomp propeller with scimitar blades, > but have now bought an Airmaster propeller. In the UK the 65" (1650mm) > diameter of the Woodcomp scimitar blades is an issue, the normal maximum for the > monowheel Europa being 64" (1625mm). William Mills had scimitar blades fitted > to his mono, but according to the PFA his propeller was only 63" . I suppose > William's propeller must have been an early prototype. > > The PFA will only allow you to fit a propeller of more than 64" diameter if > you can show compliance with CS-VLA925. In order to do that you will have to > demonstrate that the ground clearance from the propeller tip, with the > aircraft fully loaded, in a level attitude and with a flat tyre, is at least 230mm. > You don't actually have to deflate the tyre, for you can simply subtract the > distance from the rim to the ground from your ground clearance measurement. > > If you think the scimitar blades are worth all this hassle it would be > prudent to make sure that you are going to get at least 230mm ground clearance > before you place an order. That means doing the measurements twice, once before > you order the propeller, and the second time once you have the scimitar > blades fitted. > > You can, of course, buy the Woodcomp propeller with standard blades. If you > go this route, get one with the Smart Avionics controller. Woodcomp know how > to make good propellers, but their controller has a poor reputation. > > Hope this helps > > John > Europa XS monowheel G-JHKP (Rotax 912S + Airmaster CS, 2200 build hours > todate - hopefully I will be flying next summer) > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:20 AM PST US From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 Jos, you mentioned that the Airmaster was heavier than the Woodcomp. On the Conair sports website Woodcomp is shown as 12.95 KG as against 12.1 KG on the Europa 2004 site for the Airmaster? What am I reading wrong? Any advice you can give me would be appreciated. Regards Steve Pitt G-SMDH ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:00 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Jab cooling In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of larger size, and the efficiency will be lower. But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a little more drag, of course. Hi Gilles and all, I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my left cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and went from being the second hottest of the six to the coolest. Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure did not change! This has left me with the impression that all this talk about 6" of water column being needed for adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put forth by the engine manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet. I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about 250F. The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of WC at cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F, down from 295F on the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the left is now 235F, down from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my testing results indicate that pressure is the absence of flow, not a sign of flow. Internal cooling duct pressure, measured against static pressure inside the cowl, seems to be have an inverse relationship to flow, if indeed it has any relationship at all. My test results show pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're after. I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around my intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't think of a way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer. Should make for quite a conversation piece, don't you think? Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his Europa cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to try and find out what the difference between the two really is. The only thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front of the cowl than mine do., I think this has something to do with the pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with my crude string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your analysis. FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter, not cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with anything Sonex has to say. The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just outside the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't say for better PRESSURE?) Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings....... Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_041 From: "josok" Hi Steve, That's strange, The SR3000 is quoted on the Woodcomp site as 12 kg. I remembered to have seen some 30% ! weight difference. Must have been looking in the wrong place. But i still, after 47 hrs, think it's a very nice behaving propeller. i have been up FL128, where the coarse limit was met with 135 knots IAS. Forgot the reverse switch in unreverse, max rev only 4400 and still got airborne and climbing with 2 pax on board. Nice test, although it came unexpectedly :-) The position of that switch is now on the checklist. And, as i said before, it's smooth, you would have to feel the difference! Maybe, if the weather and paperwork allows, i will visit the UK on our holiday. Will keep you posted! Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:09 AM PST US From: "Al Stills" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Jab cooling John, Do you think you could take p picture and attach it so we could see the tape on the front of the cowls. Al Stills N625Az From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:30 AM Subject: Europa-List: Jab cooling In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of larger size, and the efficiency will be lower. But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a little more drag, of course. Hi Gilles and all, I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my left cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and went from being the second hottest of the six to the coolest. Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure did not change! This has left me with the impression that all this talk about 6" of water column being needed for adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put forth by the engine manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet. I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about 250F. The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of WC at cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F, down from 295F on the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the left is now 235F, down from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my testing results indicate that pressure is the absence of flow, not a sign of flow. Internal cooling duct pressure, measured against static pressure inside the cowl, seems to be have an inverse relationship to flow, if indeed it has any relationship at all. My test results show pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're after. I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around my intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't think of a way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer. Should make for quite a conversation piece, don't you think? Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his Europa cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to try and find out what the difference between the two really is. The only thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front of the cowl than mine do., I think this has something to do with the pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with my crude string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your analysis. FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter, not cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with anything Sonex has to say. The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just outside the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't say for better PRESSURE?) Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings....... Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying _____ See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:33 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jab cooling Hi John, Could you provide a picture of your turbulator please? Thanks Brian G-BYFG XS trigear, Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: Europa-List: Jab cooling In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of larger size, and the efficiency will be lower. But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a little more drag, of course. Hi Gilles and all, I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my left cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and went from being the second hottest of the six to the coolest. Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure did not change! This has left me with the impression that all this talk about 6" of water column being needed for adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put forth by the engine manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet. I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about 250F. The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of WC at cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F, down from 295F on the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the left is now 235F, down from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my testing results indicate that pressure is the absence of flow, not a sign of flow. Internal cooling duct pressure, measured against static pressure inside the cowl, seems to be have an inverse relationship to flow, if indeed it has any relationship at all. My test results show pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're after. I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around my intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't think of a way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer. Should make for quite a conversation piece, don't you think? Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his Europa cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to try and find out what the difference between the two really is. The only thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front of the cowl than mine do., I think this has something to do with the pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with my crude string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your analysis. FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter, not cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with anything Sonex has to say. The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just outside the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't say for better PRESSURE?) Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings....... Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/29/2007 21:46 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:48 AM PST US From: "D.Hetrick" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jab cooling Hi John, I want to add to Al Stills request of showing us how you made and installed the turbulators. Sounds like an interesting approach to my cooling problems. I did put an "eyebrow" on the left air intake but it didn't seem to make much difference. Thank you. Dale Hetrick ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:30 AM Subject: Europa-List: Jab cooling In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of larger size, and the efficiency will be lower. But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a little more drag, of course. Hi Gilles and all, I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my left cooling intake and they worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have turbulated the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder dropped 45F and went from being the second hottest of the six to the coolest. Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure did not change! This has left me with the impression that all this talk about 6" of water column being needed for adequate cooling is a bunch of bullshit put forth by the engine manufacturers to make you go away and be quiet. I still have 3" WC on the right at cruise and the hottest CHT is about 250F. The coolest CHT on the right is 219F in cruise. I still have 5" of WC at cruise on the left side and the highest CHT is now about 260F, down from 295F on the hottest cylinder in cruise. The coolest on the left is now 235F, down from 275F prior to the turbulators. All of my testing results indicate that pressure is the absence of flow, not a sign of flow. Internal cooling duct pressure, measured against static pressure inside the cowl, seems to be have an inverse relationship to flow, if indeed it has any relationship at all. My test results show pressure is meaningless and FLOW is what we're after. I think ultimately what I'm going to do here is dimple the area around my intake ducts like a golf ball. The zigzag tape is ugly and I can't think of a way to make it pretty, so I think dimples are the answer. Should make for quite a conversation piece, don't you think? Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his Europa cowl set. I've studied close up pictures of the Lancair cowl to try and find out what the difference between the two really is. The only thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about 1" farther in front of the cowl than mine do., I think this has something to do with the pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with my crude string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your analysis. FWIW, every Sonex cooling suggestion I've tried has lead to hotter, not cooler temps. So, Jabiropaphiles, my suggestion is don't bother with anything Sonex has to say. The moral of this story is: for better FLOW, excite the area just outside the hole. Almost pornographic, isn't it? (notice how I didn't say for better PRESSURE?) Now, I'm back to analysis of boundary flow on the wings....... Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:59 AM PST US From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp scimitar blades (was Emailing: IMG_0410, IMG_0411) In a message dated 01/10/2007 10:48:44 GMT Standard Time, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk writes: John, You may be interested in the attached flight test data for William Mills' comparison of his Woodcomp SR2000 and a SR3000. Regards, David Joyce Thanks David. I had seen these flight test data (I think they were attached to one of William's postings). The figures for the SR3000/3 look pretty good. However, as mentioned earlier, the 1650mm diameter issue caused me to buy an Airmaster propeller instead. John ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jab cooling From: Fred Klein > In a message dated 10/1/2007 2:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > europa-list@matronics.com writes: > > Concerning the Jabiru, there is little room between the prop and the > front cylinders to provide a correct diffuser, so the inlet must be of > larger size, and the efficiency will be lower. > But the engine can be adequately cooled all the same, at the price of a > little more drag, of course. On Monday, October 1, 2007, at 06:30 AM, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > - > I've had a chance to test my turbulators installed at the mouth of my > left cooling intake and they-worked exceedingly well. I've seen, on > average, a 25F drop in CHT's on the left side now that I have > turbulated the airflow entering the left side intake. One cylinder > dropped-45F and went from being the-second hottest of the six to the > coolest.-Interestingly, the engine is now running in the 240F-260F > range on all CHT's, but the delta pressure-did not change! > Clearly, Andy Silvester used the Lancair cowls as a model for his > Europa cowl set. I've studied close up-pictures of the Lancair cowl to > try and find out what the difference between the two really-is. The > only thing I notice is the Lancair inlets protrude about-1"-farther i n > front of the cowl than mine do.,- I think this has something to do > with the pressure wave I've observed in front of my left intake with > my crude string tests. So Gilles, you are likley correct in your > analysis. As a (at this point at least) probable Jab buyer, I've been following this thread w/ interest. Up til now, I had assumed that the difference between right and left side cooling issues was a consequence of the difference in prop wash. I've also assumed that references to "right" and "left" were to starboard and port, i.e., as seen from the cockpit rather than say from the front of the engine looking aft. I believe that the protrusions around the circumference of the Lancair cowl inlets are intended to minimize the effects of prop wash on air entering the inlets. Also, from the pictures I've seen of the Suncoast/Jab air ducting, it appears that the port and starboard ducts have identical (but opposite hand) shapes which do not appear to factor in the front to rear offsets of the port/starboard cylinder banks. It just now occurs to me (after reviewing Giles's Contrails articles referenced previously) that the difference in distance between the inlets and the first cylinders seen by air entering the port and starboard ducts may be of equal or even greater importance...and may be the source of the differential in port/starboard cooling effectiveness. This is conjecture on my part, and of course no substitute for the rigorous testing John L. has done; still, it might be nice to get to the heart of the problem. Please comment at will! Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in english? Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:35 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jab cooling Fred Klein a crit : > Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in > french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in english? Fred, In the future all the articles will be in English. But it takes time for a non natural English speaker/writer. Now if there is a massive demand about a specific page, I might put it on the front burner... Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:21 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Constant Speed newbie question From: "steve v " Hi, While waiting for my constant speed to arrive, i have been looking at the manifold preassure gauges and found that they are available withe different scales - 35" or 50" FSD, cannont find any reference anywhere on manufactures blurb or the rotax installation manual as to which is needed, i've got the run of the mill standard 912S, can anyone shed any light? Steve Vestuti #573 G-CEBV Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:51 PM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: Constant Speed newbie question 35 is fine, 50 only needed for 914 - the turbo ! Normal pressure is as high as it goes with the 912S - around 30. steve v wrote: > > Hi, > While waiting for my constant speed to arrive, i have been > looking at the manifold preassure gauges and found that > they are available withe different scales - 35" or 50" FSD, > cannont find any reference anywhere on manufactures blurb > or the rotax installation manual as to which is needed, > i've got the run of the mill standard 912S, can anyone > shed any light? > > Steve Vestuti #573 G-CEBV ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:04 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jab cooling Gilles you are a gentleman. Your english is as good as mine! Wish my french was half as good {{:-( Graham Gilles Thesee wrote: > > > Fred Klein a crit : > >> Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in >> french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in english? > > > Fred, > > In the future all the articles will be in English. But it takes time for > a non natural English speaker/writer. > Now if there is a massive demand about a specific page, I might put it > on the front burner... > > Best regards, -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:31 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: CS Propeller Weight From: "Carl Pattinson" How much weight does adding a CS/ VP propeller actually add to an installation. For example an average VP prop is about 12.3 kg but if you are removing a ground adjustable prop what is the actual weight increase. I don't really want to remove our fixed prop to find out so does anyone know how much a standard Warp Drive assembly weighs. Carl Pattinson G-LABS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137506#137506 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:58 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: CS Propeller Weight Carl, I believe that the Warp Drive is around 7 lbs... Jeff Carl Pattinson wrote: > > How much weight does adding a CS/ VP propeller actually add to an installation. > > For example an average VP prop is about 12.3 kg but if you are removing a ground adjustable prop what is the actual weight increase. > > I don't really want to remove our fixed prop to find out so does anyone know how much a standard Warp Drive assembly weighs. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137506#137506 > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:17 PM PST US From: Rick Stockton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jab cooling BabelFish works fairly well. http://babelfish.altavista.com/ Gilles Thesee wrote: Fred Klein a crit : > Incidentally Giles, 2 of the 3 articles you referenced come up in > french; could you offer any clues as to how I could view them in english? Fred, In the future all the articles will be in English. But it takes time for a non natural English speaker/writer. Now if there is a massive demand about a specific page, I might put it on the front burner... Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:00 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "europa-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Europa-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Europa-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/europa-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Europa-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Europa-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Europa-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Europa-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Europa-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:05 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.