---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/07/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - Re: Aileron hinges and sagging (Tim Ward) 2. 01:53 AM - centre console (Miles McCallum) 3. 05:04 AM - Re: Aileron hinges and sagging (Graham Singleton) 4. 05:19 AM - Center console (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 5. 06:54 AM - Autocad drawing of XS mono (Europa List) 6. 07:39 AM - Re: centre console (JEFF ROBERTS) 7. 11:31 AM - Re: Autocad drawing of XS mono (Michel AUVRAY) 8. 01:49 PM - Out rigger latching postmortem (Paul McAllister) 9. 03:39 PM - Re: Out rigger latching postmortem (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:45 AM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron hinges and sagging Craig, In the late 1990's, along time ago now, I visited Kim Prout in LA to see his project while building mine #294. His father was present that day helping him. He used to work for McDonnell Corporation as , I think, an aerodynamics and he recommended having a 3rd hinge on the ailerons placed closer to the inner mass balance from the mid point. I have done this without any problems and certainly strengthens the aileron. Europa brought out a MOD to incorporate an extended tail wheel for better control. On installing this he also recommended strengthening the hinge attachments to the rudder by doubling the length of each hinge. Another good idea due to the added forces on the rudder with the steering tailwheel. All the best with the build, Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, CHRISTCHURCH 8052 Ph :64 03 3515166 Mob: 021 0640221 email: ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Sandford" Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron hinges and sagging > > Craig > > Welcome to the Forum. > Ive been in Melbourne for 5 weeks and hadnt heard you had actually > taken the plunge. > I see you have had plenty of good advise on the aileron hinge. > Another good place for an extra hinge is above the lower rudder hinge. > Have fun. > P.S. I got my video back thanks. > > Lance Sandford > > >> >> >> >> i have seen a few of you talking about your ailerons sagging a bit at the >> tips, and using a third hinge, >> so i was thinking about moving the centre hinge inboard about 200mm and >> fitting the third hinge during the >> build. Can anyone see any problems with doing this, or will i stuff up >> some >> thing i am not up to yet, or not >> aware of. I realise i need to dodge the sites of the mass balance arms, >> but >> other than that i cant see >> why i shouldnt do this now >> >> thanks >> >> craig >> 6:53 PM >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:42 AM PST US From: "Miles McCallum" Subject: Europa-List: centre console There is a scheme out there to cut down the centre console (examined by the factory - perhaps Andy D can enlighten...) - we looked at the loads imposed by the engine on the centre console in relation to the taildragger attachment structure, and found them negligable - but didn't look at the flight loads. I agree with GS - keeping the centre console for crashworthiness is a good idea... Miles > Time: 04:37:55 PM PST US > From: "Paul McAllister" > Subject: Europa-List: Center Console > > > Hi all, > > I seem to recall quite some time ago that someone (perhaps Miles or > Nigel) had done some analysis on how much the center tunnel can be > safely reduced in size without affecting the structural integrity of > the aircraft. I believe that it was with reference to the tail > dragger conversion, however I would assume that its equally applicable > to the Trigear. > > Can anyone point me towards that discussion. > > Thanks, Paul > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:17 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron hinges and sagging Jim & Craig forgot to mention in my last remark, don't put the third hinge in the middle for resonance reasons. Vibration will be damped with the hinge off centre Graham jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > Craig- > > I am at about the same place you are and added a third hinge close to > the wingtip. When I did my initial fitting, the tip drooped about > 3/16. It appeared to me more like the aileron was warped than just > sagging. In retrospect, I would have been better off moving the center > hinge a few inches inboard before I did so. It sounds like you are on > the right track. The hinge material BTW is standard issue from AS. > > Jim Puglise A-283 > > >> > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:39 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Center console In a message dated 10/7/2007 2:58:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Can anyone point me towards that discussion. Hi Paul, I cut my center console down. I was told at the time to keep it at least 2" above the forward portion of the seat bottom where it turns down into the foot area. I did put some reinforcing plies inside the tunnel in this area. So far, 118 hours, with some of those hours spent yanking and banking, and no sign of any problems. Contact me off list if you'd like some photos. Hope it helps! Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:34 AM PST US From: "Europa List" Subject: Europa-List: Autocad drawing of XS mono I believe that this question has been asked before, but does anyone have a good Autocad drawing of the XS mono. I have made one, but trying to reproduce it from the little drawing in the manual makes me suspect it's accuracy. I am down to trying to fit a ULPOWER 260i engine in the drawing. I have generated a pretty accurate drawing of the engine, since their site has drawings of it laid out on a grid,which makes copying easier. If anyone wants my XS drawing, they can have it with the caveat that it's accuracy may not be good enough for critical fits. Vaughn Teegarden A191, Wanting to finish before I die ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:52 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: centre console We cut this console down but added several layers of bid to reinforce the inside. We then created the top with 5 layers of bid. It's secured with #10 screws and nut plates. The left seat was widened by reshapeing the left side of the console to allow for more leg room. This was done with 3 layers of bid over a center of 1/4 inch foam shaped to allow a right leg more room. As you can see it makes a great arm rest and a lot more room for toys. The fuel filters are located right under the arm rest and can be viewed in flight anytime. Best Regards, Jeff R A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 90 hours and climbing slowly. On Oct 7, 2007, at 3:52 AM, Miles McCallum wrote: > > > There is a scheme out there to cut down the centre console (examined > by the > factory - perhaps Andy D can enlighten...) - we looked at the loads > imposed > by the engine on the centre console in relation to the taildragger > attachment structure, and found them negligable - but didn't look at > the > flight loads. I agree with GS - keeping the centre console for > crashworthiness is a good idea... > > Miles > >> Time: 04:37:55 PM PST US >> From: "Paul McAllister" >> Subject: Europa-List: Center Console >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I seem to recall quite some time ago that someone (perhaps Miles or >> Nigel) had done some analysis on how much the center tunnel can be >> safely reduced in size without affecting the structural integrity of >> the aircraft. I believe that it was with reference to the tail >> dragger conversion, however I would assume that its equally applicable >> to the Trigear. >> >> Can anyone point me towards that discussion. >> >> Thanks, Paul >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:44 AM PST US From: "Michel AUVRAY" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Autocad drawing of XS mono Hi Vaughn, Give me your personal email adress I send to you a DXF file. Regards Michel Auvray Europa N 145 -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Europa List Envoy : dimanche 7 octobre 2007 15:53 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Europa-List: Autocad drawing of XS mono I believe that this question has been asked before, but does anyone have a good Autocad drawing of the XS mono. I have made one, but trying to reproduce it from the little drawing in the manual makes me suspect it's accuracy. I am down to trying to fit a ULPOWER 260i engine in the drawing. I have generated a pretty accurate drawing of the engine, since their site has drawings of it laid out on a grid,which makes copying easier. If anyone wants my XS drawing, they can have it with the caveat that it's accuracy may not be good enough for critical fits. Vaughn Teegarden A191, Wanting to finish before I die ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:50 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Out rigger latching postmortem Hi all, As some of you may recall I had an incident where my port out rigger didn't latch. I did some work on it this weekend and discovered that the head of a castellated nut had been catching the side of the W21 outrigger plate. If you look at the drawing on the bottom left hand corner on page 9-23 of the manual you will see that a AN4-11 drilled bolt passes through the top of the outrigger leg OR1 attaching it to OR4. The AN4-11 bolt is fitted with a AN310 castellated nut. What happening was that there was enough play where the bolt goes through the OR4 latch arm to allow OR1 to twist sideways so that the nut catches on the side of the W21 outrigger plate. What I did was to shorten the AN4-11 drilled bolt by 2mm and use a low profile castellated nut, I believe that they are designated AN320 (not certain). In addition I fitted another AN960-416L washer in the slot of OR1 to take up the slack between it and the OR4 latch. All seems well now, but I would encourage everyone to take a look on the inside of there W21 outrigger plate to check for signs of catching. I intend to fit a micro switch to detect gear down and locked, but I am afraid to say the the ultimate solution will be to convert my aircraft into a conventional tail dragger. Another instance of the outrigger not locking or the main gear over center lock failing is more than I would want to contemplate at some remote airstrip. Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Out rigger latching postmortem From: Fred Klein Paul McAllister wrote: > In addition I fitted another AN960-416L washer in the slot > of OR1 to take up the slack between it and the OR4 latch. Paul/All, I've noticed that my hard copy build manual calls for a total of 2 AN960-416L washers in the OR1 slot, whereas the latest online manual has ADDED a 3rd washer. Checking my installation, there appears to be sufficient slack to add that 3rd washer. Thanks Paul for bringing this to our attention. Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.