Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:45 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (craig bastin)
2. 04:11 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Peter Zutrauen)
3. 04:51 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (craig bastin)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Rob Housman)
5. 11:14 AM - Re: Europa Owners in Central Florida (Jhleuropa@aol.com)
6. 11:58 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Karl Heindl)
7. 12:49 PM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Rob Housman)
8. 01:09 PM - firewall fitings (Paul Stewart)
9. 01:50 PM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Karl Heindl)
10. 04:19 PM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Graham Singleton)
11. 04:22 PM - Tailplane slots in fuselage (Fred Klein)
12. 04:58 PM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Rob Housman)
13. 05:17 PM - Re: Tailplane slots in fuselage (Rob Housman)
14. 07:40 PM - Re: Tailplane slots in fuselage (Rman)
15. 08:08 PM - Re: Tailplane slots in fuselage (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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Subject: | Mod 73 alternative |
I did simmilar at the build stage, replaced the whole lot with alloy tube
and ran it
about another 100mm into the outer foam past where tp6 would finish. weight
increase
over the tp5 and tp6 was about 300 grams, but the tp5 replacement option
looks like
a good one instead of all that cutting glassing foam, more glassing etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 10:56 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in removing
the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move inboard, which
would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane etc. etc.
I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this can
ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
Advantages:
A straightforward mod.
No cutting into the tailplane.
No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
place.)
If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
Cheers,
Karl
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
7:57 PM
7:57 PM
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 alternative |
Hi Karl,
The only concern I would have is dissimilar metal corrosion on the torque
tube. Not sure how to prevent it between the alu and the torque tube plating
besides lots of grease. I suspect that the grease will not be enough
however. With the sliding on/off and then sitting in one spot, I would
expect some metal on metal contact with the grease being wiped off. Hope
I'm wrong, but I've seen too much dissimilar metal corrosion in a variety
of situations.
Cheers,
Pete
On 10/22/07, Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
> After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in
> removing
> the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move inboard, which
> would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane etc. etc.
> I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
> 03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this
> can
> ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
> Advantages:
> A straightforward mod.
> No cutting into the tailplane.
> No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
> A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
> place.)
> If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Karl
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
>
>
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Subject: | Mod 73 alternative |
A couple of sacrificial annodes would resolve the issue of corrosion I
think, same as on outboard motors for boats
but it is a good point, or if you had the clearance, maybe powder coating
the torque tube, or caster oil, only problem
with caster oil is it remains tacky, as all the data i have seen on caster
oil suggests the only way to remove it completely from a metalic
surface is to machine about 1mm off the surface
you could simulate an accelerated situation by putting the old bush (tp5)
and a piece of the alloy tube in a salt water bath for a week
and see what happens, ideally in the same relation as in the aircraft ie one
inside the other.
just had another thought, maybe a teflon treatment might do the trick on the
torque tube or both if you have done the mod yet
it would make the tube real easy to get on and off too.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen
Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 9:11 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
Hi Karl,
The only concern I would have is dissimilar metal corrosion on the torque
tube. Not sure how to prevent it between the alu and the torque tube plating
besides lots of grease. I suspect that the grease will not be enough
however. With the sliding on/off and then sitting in one spot, I would
expect some metal on metal contact with the grease being wiped off. Hope
I'm wrong, but I've seen too much dissimilar metal corrosion in a variety
of situations.
Cheers,
Pete
On 10/22/07, Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in
removing
the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move inboard,
which
would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane etc. etc.
I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this
can
ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
Advantages:
A straightforward mod.
No cutting into the tailplane.
No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
place.)
If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
Cheers,
Karl
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Hotmail is here!
7:57 PM
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Subject: | Mod 73 alternative |
You are on the right track Craig, but you missed the obvious - aluminum is a
sacrificial anode relative to the nickel plated tube.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:52 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
A couple of sacrificial annodes would resolve the issue of corrosion I
think, same as on outboard motors for boats
but it is a good point, or if you had the clearance, maybe powder coating
the torque tube, or caster oil, only problem
with caster oil is it remains tacky, as all the data i have seen on caster
oil suggests the only way to remove it completely from a metalic
surface is to machine about 1mm off the surface
you could simulate an accelerated situation by putting the old bush (tp5)
and a piece of the alloy tube in a salt water bath for a week
and see what happens, ideally in the same relation as in the aircraft ie one
inside the other.
just had another thought, maybe a teflon treatment might do the trick on the
torque tube or both if you have done the mod yet
it would make the tube real easy to get on and off too.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen
Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
Hi Karl,
The only concern I would have is dissimilar metal corrosion on the torque
tube. Not sure how to prevent it between the alu and the torque tube plating
besides lots of grease. I suspect that the grease will not be enough
however. With the sliding on/off and then sitting in one spot, I would
expect some metal on metal contact with the grease being wiped off. Hope
I'm wrong, but I've seen too much dissimilar metal corrosion in a variety
of situations.
Cheers,
Pete
On 10/22/07, Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
<mailto:kheindl@msn.com> >
My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in removing
the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move inboard, which
would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane etc. etc.
I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this can
ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
Advantages:
A straightforward mod.
No cutting into the tailplane.
No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
place.)
If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
Cheers,
Karl
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Hotmail is here!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Europa Owners in Central Florida |
Hi Pete,
Thanks for your response. We get to Bradenton on 29th Oct. We have friends
in Englewood and we go down that way from time to time. If we do, I will give
you a call.
Our Florida number is : 941 723 3309.
Hope to meet you sometime.
Regards, John.
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 alternative |
Hi Bill and Sue,
Some builders pointed out a potential corrosion problem with my choice of
aluminum. There are other choices. George Powell obtained a steel tube from
a builder in Germany, and whoever supplies the TP5/TP6 to Europa would
obviously also be able to supply a longer cut.
I like the idea of a Teflon coat on the TP4, but wouldn't have a clue on how
to apply it.
I am not really concerned about the corrosion issue. The torque tube is
prone to corrosion anyway, when moisture is present. I have seen the
corrosion on the exterior of other Europas, and if the exterior corrodes
then you can be sure that the tube's interior is corroded as well, unless
the necessary steps were taken before assembly .
I always apply a good coat of lithium grease, and the tailplanes should be
pulled off at least twice a year for a n inspection. I never had a problem
in that area.
Removal of TP5:
I tried it the hard way by making a micro oven inside an aluminum tube,
using a 20W halogen bulb and an oven thermometer with a remote probe for
accurate temperature control. The thermometer had an upper display limit of
200 degrees, and that was not hot enough to soften the redux I had used as
an adhesive. I have now seen another oven thermometer with a much higher
limit, but I have discarded that technique, unless I wanted to remove the
TP6.
Using the same tube, and with the inside opening sealed with a heatresistent
material (felt chair glides), I applied a good dose of heat with a
blowtorch. The tailplane is in an upright position, so that no heat finds
its way into the foam area. Using a narrow kitchen knife I probed the
adhesive on the outside of the TP5. When the redux had softened enough I
removed the heat and cut around the TP5 with the same knife, which had a
serrated edge and I was using it like a saw.
For the removal of the tube you need a locking pair of longnose pliers. Lock
it onto the edge and slowly remove the thing with a turning motion. You may
have to cut away a tiny bit of the plywood rib (2 x 5mm) to make room for
the pliers.
Now having said all that, I suggest you ignore the two techniques above.
Next time I would simply use the knife and heat it with a blowtorch before
cutting into the adhesive.
I didn't do any damage to the foam.
Installing the new TP5:
You need a small flashlight so you can see exactly what is inside the
tailplane.
Do a trial fit of the new tube and see if it butts right up against the TP6.
If there is any adhesive on the edge of the TP6, then don't disturb it, but
grind a piece out of the edge of the long tube.
I had to do that on both sides.
Once you have a satisfactory fit, mark the tube where it needs to be cut
off. I used a hacksaw and belt sander to do the necessary trimming.
Now take the tailplane and do a trial dry fit on the aircraft.
Remove the new TP5.
Use a narrow long spatula to apply floxed epoxy to the foam walls and over
the old adhesive. The flox should be fairly wet, and you need only coat the
first two thirds of the hole.
Put a liberal coat of neat epoxy on the tube exterior and insert it slowly
with a turning motion.
The tailplane is in the horizontalposition, and at the halfway mark remove
the surplus flox which has been pushed ahead of the tube. Remove more flox
again when the tube is fully inserted.
Now take some time to remove alltrace of adhesive inside the tubes. I used
rags dampened with acetone, on a long stick. I believe that vinegar can also
be used, if you are concerned about foam damage.
That is about it. Mount the tailplane on the torque tube to ensure perfect
alignment of the two tubes. If the alignment is not perfect, then adjust by
applying pressure at the tailplane tip in different directions until the TP4
slides in all the way. Make sure also that it was well greased.
After 4-5 hours of curing pull the tailplanes off again, just to make sure
that there is no bonding going on in case some more epoxy has seeped out of
the gap onto the TP4.
Then push it back on and leave overnight.
Hope that helps,
Karl
>From: Bill and Sue <bill.sue@orcon.net.nz>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:55:56 +1300
>
>
>Yes I would be interested as I have not done mine yet .
>
>Mono XS
>ZK CHV
>914 Airmaster
>
>Rgds
>
>Sue & Bill
>
>
>Karl Heindl wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
>>After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in
>>removing the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move
>>inboard, which would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane
>>etc. etc.
>>I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
>>03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this
>>can ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
>>Advantages:
>>A straightforward mod.
>>No cutting into the tailplane.
>>No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
>>A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
>>place.)
>>If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Karl
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________ NOD32 2607 (20071022) Information __________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_hotmailtextlink2_oct
Message 7
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Subject: | Mod 73 alternative |
In re: Teflon (tm)
Do an advanced search in Google for all of the word "electroless nickel
teflon" and you will get many hits for shops that can deposit electroless
nickel with particles of Teflon(tm). This coating will be the most
compatible with the nickel plated torque tube and have the best lubricity.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
Hi Bill and Sue,
Some builders pointed out a potential corrosion problem with my choice of
aluminum. There are other choices. George Powell obtained a steel tube from
a builder in Germany, and whoever supplies the TP5/TP6 to Europa would
obviously also be able to supply a longer cut.
I like the idea of a Teflon coat on the TP4, but wouldn't have a clue on how
to apply it.
I am not really concerned about the corrosion issue. The torque tube is
prone to corrosion anyway, when moisture is present. I have seen the
corrosion on the exterior of other Europas, and if the exterior corrodes
then you can be sure that the tube's interior is corroded as well, unless
the necessary steps were taken before assembly .
I always apply a good coat of lithium grease, and the tailplanes should be
pulled off at least twice a year for a n inspection. I never had a problem
in that area.
Removal of TP5:
I tried it the hard way by making a micro oven inside an aluminum tube,
using a 20W halogen bulb and an oven thermometer with a remote probe for
accurate temperature control. The thermometer had an upper display limit of
200 degrees, and that was not hot enough to soften the redux I had used as
an adhesive. I have now seen another oven thermometer with a much higher
limit, but I have discarded that technique, unless I wanted to remove the
TP6.
Using the same tube, and with the inside opening sealed with a heatresistent
material (felt chair glides), I applied a good dose of heat with a
blowtorch. The tailplane is in an upright position, so that no heat finds
its way into the foam area. Using a narrow kitchen knife I probed the
adhesive on the outside of the TP5. When the redux had softened enough I
removed the heat and cut around the TP5 with the same knife, which had a
serrated edge and I was using it like a saw.
For the removal of the tube you need a locking pair of longnose pliers. Lock
it onto the edge and slowly remove the thing with a turning motion. You may
have to cut away a tiny bit of the plywood rib (2 x 5mm) to make room for
the pliers.
Now having said all that, I suggest you ignore the two techniques above.
Next time I would simply use the knife and heat it with a blowtorch before
cutting into the adhesive.
I didn't do any damage to the foam.
Installing the new TP5:
You need a small flashlight so you can see exactly what is inside the
tailplane.
Do a trial fit of the new tube and see if it butts right up against the TP6.
If there is any adhesive on the edge of the TP6, then don't disturb it, but
grind a piece out of the edge of the long tube.
I had to do that on both sides.
Once you have a satisfactory fit, mark the tube where it needs to be cut
off. I used a hacksaw and belt sander to do the necessary trimming.
Now take the tailplane and do a trial dry fit on the aircraft.
Remove the new TP5.
Use a narrow long spatula to apply floxed epoxy to the foam walls and over
the old adhesive. The flox should be fairly wet, and you need only coat the
first two thirds of the hole.
Put a liberal coat of neat epoxy on the tube exterior and insert it slowly
with a turning motion.
The tailplane is in the horizontalposition, and at the halfway mark remove
the surplus flox which has been pushed ahead of the tube. Remove more flox
again when the tube is fully inserted.
Now take some time to remove alltrace of adhesive inside the tubes. I used
rags dampened with acetone, on a long stick. I believe that vinegar can also
be used, if you are concerned about foam damage.
That is about it. Mount the tailplane on the torque tube to ensure perfect
alignment of the two tubes. If the alignment is not perfect, then adjust by
applying pressure at the tailplane tip in different directions until the TP4
slides in all the way. Make sure also that it was well greased.
After 4-5 hours of curing pull the tailplanes off again, just to make sure
that there is no bonding going on in case some more epoxy has seeped out of
the gap onto the TP4.
Then push it back on and leave overnight.
Hope that helps,
Karl
>From: Bill and Sue <bill.sue@orcon.net.nz>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:55:56 +1300
>
>
>Yes I would be interested as I have not done mine yet .
>
>Mono XS
>ZK CHV
>914 Airmaster
>
>Rgds
>
>Sue & Bill
>
>
>Karl Heindl wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
>>After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in
>>removing the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move
>>inboard, which would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane
>>etc. etc.
>>I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
>>03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this
>>can ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
>>Advantages:
>>A straightforward mod.
>>No cutting into the tailplane.
>>No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
>>A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
>>place.)
>>If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Karl
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________ NOD32 2607 (20071022) Information __________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_hotmailtextlink2_oct
Message 8
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Subject: | firewall fitings |
Anyone in the UK know where to get the bulkhead fitting supplied by
the factory as part of the MAP plumbing kit? I only want the fitting
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 9
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Subject: | Mod 73 alternative |
Rob,
You seem to know a lot about this. But would it be possible to apply to an
installed torque tube, i.e. would the platers be able to work with my
fuselage on a trailer ?
Regards,
Karl
>From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:48:46 -0700
>
>
>In re: Teflon (tm)
>
>Do an advanced search in Google for all of the word "electroless nickel
>teflon" and you will get many hits for shops that can deposit electroless
>nickel with particles of Teflon(tm). This coating will be the most
>compatible with the nickel plated torque tube and have the best lubricity.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Rob Housman
>Irvine, California
>Europa XS Tri-Gear
>S/N A070
>Airframe complete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
>Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:57 AM
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
>
>
>
>Hi Bill and Sue,
>
>Some builders pointed out a potential corrosion problem with my choice of
>aluminum. There are other choices. George Powell obtained a steel tube from
>a builder in Germany, and whoever supplies the TP5/TP6 to Europa would
>obviously also be able to supply a longer cut.
>I like the idea of a Teflon coat on the TP4, but wouldn't have a clue on
>how
>
>to apply it.
>I am not really concerned about the corrosion issue. The torque tube is
>prone to corrosion anyway, when moisture is present. I have seen the
>corrosion on the exterior of other Europas, and if the exterior corrodes
>then you can be sure that the tube's interior is corroded as well, unless
>the necessary steps were taken before assembly .
>I always apply a good coat of lithium grease, and the tailplanes should be
>pulled off at least twice a year for a n inspection. I never had a problem
>in that area.
>
>Removal of TP5:
>
>I tried it the hard way by making a micro oven inside an aluminum tube,
>using a 20W halogen bulb and an oven thermometer with a remote probe for
>accurate temperature control. The thermometer had an upper display limit of
>200 degrees, and that was not hot enough to soften the redux I had used as
>an adhesive. I have now seen another oven thermometer with a much higher
>limit, but I have discarded that technique, unless I wanted to remove the
>TP6.
>
>Using the same tube, and with the inside opening sealed with a
>heatresistent
>
>material (felt chair glides), I applied a good dose of heat with a
>blowtorch. The tailplane is in an upright position, so that no heat finds
>its way into the foam area. Using a narrow kitchen knife I probed the
>adhesive on the outside of the TP5. When the redux had softened enough I
>removed the heat and cut around the TP5 with the same knife, which had a
>serrated edge and I was using it like a saw.
>For the removal of the tube you need a locking pair of longnose pliers.
>Lock
>
>it onto the edge and slowly remove the thing with a turning motion. You may
>have to cut away a tiny bit of the plywood rib (2 x 5mm) to make room for
>the pliers.
>
>Now having said all that, I suggest you ignore the two techniques above.
>Next time I would simply use the knife and heat it with a blowtorch before
>cutting into the adhesive.
>I didn't do any damage to the foam.
>
>Installing the new TP5:
>
>You need a small flashlight so you can see exactly what is inside the
>tailplane.
>Do a trial fit of the new tube and see if it butts right up against the
>TP6.
>
>If there is any adhesive on the edge of the TP6, then don't disturb it, but
>grind a piece out of the edge of the long tube.
>I had to do that on both sides.
>Once you have a satisfactory fit, mark the tube where it needs to be cut
>off. I used a hacksaw and belt sander to do the necessary trimming.
>Now take the tailplane and do a trial dry fit on the aircraft.
>Remove the new TP5.
>Use a narrow long spatula to apply floxed epoxy to the foam walls and over
>the old adhesive. The flox should be fairly wet, and you need only coat the
>first two thirds of the hole.
>Put a liberal coat of neat epoxy on the tube exterior and insert it slowly
>with a turning motion.
>The tailplane is in the horizontalposition, and at the halfway mark remove
>the surplus flox which has been pushed ahead of the tube. Remove more flox
>again when the tube is fully inserted.
>Now take some time to remove alltrace of adhesive inside the tubes. I used
>rags dampened with acetone, on a long stick. I believe that vinegar can
>also
>
>be used, if you are concerned about foam damage.
>That is about it. Mount the tailplane on the torque tube to ensure perfect
>alignment of the two tubes. If the alignment is not perfect, then adjust by
>applying pressure at the tailplane tip in different directions until the
>TP4
>
>slides in all the way. Make sure also that it was well greased.
>After 4-5 hours of curing pull the tailplanes off again, just to make sure
>that there is no bonding going on in case some more epoxy has seeped out of
>the gap onto the TP4.
>Then push it back on and leave overnight.
>
>Hope that helps,
>
>Karl
>
>
> >From: Bill and Sue <bill.sue@orcon.net.nz>
> >To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
> >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:55:56 +1300
> >
> >
> >Yes I would be interested as I have not done mine yet .
> >
> >Mono XS
> >ZK CHV
> >914 Airmaster
> >
> >Rgds
> >
> >Sue & Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >Karl Heindl wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
> >>After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in
> >>removing the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move
> >>inboard, which would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the
>tailplane
> >>etc. etc.
> >>I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
> >>03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this
> >>can ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
> >>Advantages:
> >>A straightforward mod.
> >>No cutting into the tailplane.
> >>No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
> >>A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
> >>place.)
> >>If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Karl
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>__________ NOD32 2607 (20071022) Information __________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
>power.
>http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_hotmailtextlink2_oct
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: | Re: Mod 73 alternative |
Colin Smallwood has an easier way. He made an oval washer, long axis
just more than OD of TP5, on a length of screwed rod, which would pass
down the inside of the TP5 tilted then lock onto the inner end when
straightened. A piece of tube just larger than TP5 rests on the root rib
with a washer and nut on the outer end. Tighten the nut and the TP5 is
pulled out. No heat required.
Graham
Karl Heindl wrote:
>
> Using the same tube, and with the inside opening sealed with a
> heatresistent material (felt chair glides), I applied a good dose of
> heat with a blowtorch. The tailplane is in an upright position, so that
> no heat finds its way into the foam area. Using a narrow kitchen knife I
> probed the adhesive on the outside of the TP5. When the redux had
> softened enough I removed the heat and cut around the TP5 with the same
> knife, which had a serrated edge and I was using it like a saw.
> For the removal of the tube you need a locking pair of longnose pliers.
> Lock it onto the edge and slowly remove the thing with a turning motion.
> You may have to cut away a tiny bit of the plywood rib (2 x 5mm) to make
> room for the pliers.
Message 11
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Subject: | Tailplane slots in fuselage |
Hi All,
Step 7 on build manual pg. 19-7 describes the required travel (4
degrees up, 12 degrees down) of the trailing edge of the tailplane from
a neutral position. My fuselage had a faint but discernible ridge line
which I interpreted to be a cut-out line for the slots for the tab
link-rod TS05 which I previously followed when cutting out the slots.
As I now have the tailplanes mounted and am measuring to ensure they
can achieve the required travel, I'm finding that my slots are grossly
oversized, and most probably will be quite inviting for small birds and
varmints. Have any of you faced the same situation?
Now that I have marked the location of the tab link-rod in the extreme
up and down positions, and after taking into account the fore and aft
movement of the tab link-rod and adding 1/8" clearances, my intention
is to do some bid patching so that the slot is no larger than required.
I'm unclear as to the meaning of the last sentence on pg. 19-7 where it
states,
"...as the trailing edge of the tailplane is raised the trailing edge
of the tab raises even further, the ratio being approximately 1.3 to 1.
Therefore, when you have raised the trailing edge of the tailplane by
12 degrees, the tab should have raised 15.6 degrees relative to the
tailplane or 27.6 degrees from the zero start position.
A maximum total movement of 18 degrees and a minimum of 14.4 degrees
relative to the tailplane is acceptable."
Does the last sentence intend: A maximum total movement of the trim tab
of 18 degrees and a minimum of 14.4 degrees relative to the tailplane
is acceptable."
Or am I really missing the point?
Fred
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Subject: | Mod 73 alternative |
Karl, sorry about not being sufficiently specific in my suggestion. I was
suggesting that the add on aluminum tube could be electroless nickel plated
in order to have the new tube and the original TP4 (which is already nickel
plated, but not with Teflon(tm)added) have similar material on the mating
surfaces. Unlike electrodeposited nickel which would be tricky to plate
inside a tube, the electroless stuff can be applied to the ID of a tube.
To more directly answer your question about in situ plating....no, it would
not be easy to deposit electroless nickel (with or without the slippery
stuff) to the torque tube already installed, primarily because the process
requires the temperature to be close to the boiling point of the solution in
order to work.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:49 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
Rob,
You seem to know a lot about this. But would it be possible to apply to an
installed torque tube, i.e. would the platers be able to work with my
fuselage on a trailer ?
Regards,
Karl
>From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:48:46 -0700
>
>
>In re: Teflon (tm)
>
>Do an advanced search in Google for all of the word "electroless nickel
>teflon" and you will get many hits for shops that can deposit electroless
>nickel with particles of Teflon(tm). This coating will be the most
>compatible with the nickel plated torque tube and have the best lubricity.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Rob Housman
>Irvine, California
>Europa XS Tri-Gear
>S/N A070
>Airframe complete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
>Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:57 AM
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
>
>
>
>Hi Bill and Sue,
>
>Some builders pointed out a potential corrosion problem with my choice of
>aluminum. There are other choices. George Powell obtained a steel tube from
>a builder in Germany, and whoever supplies the TP5/TP6 to Europa would
>obviously also be able to supply a longer cut.
>I like the idea of a Teflon coat on the TP4, but wouldn't have a clue on
>how
>
>to apply it.
>I am not really concerned about the corrosion issue. The torque tube is
>prone to corrosion anyway, when moisture is present. I have seen the
>corrosion on the exterior of other Europas, and if the exterior corrodes
>then you can be sure that the tube's interior is corroded as well, unless
>the necessary steps were taken before assembly .
>I always apply a good coat of lithium grease, and the tailplanes should be
>pulled off at least twice a year for a n inspection. I never had a problem
>in that area.
>
>Removal of TP5:
>
>I tried it the hard way by making a micro oven inside an aluminum tube,
>using a 20W halogen bulb and an oven thermometer with a remote probe for
>accurate temperature control. The thermometer had an upper display limit of
>200 degrees, and that was not hot enough to soften the redux I had used as
>an adhesive. I have now seen another oven thermometer with a much higher
>limit, but I have discarded that technique, unless I wanted to remove the
>TP6.
>
>Using the same tube, and with the inside opening sealed with a
>heatresistent
>
>material (felt chair glides), I applied a good dose of heat with a
>blowtorch. The tailplane is in an upright position, so that no heat finds
>its way into the foam area. Using a narrow kitchen knife I probed the
>adhesive on the outside of the TP5. When the redux had softened enough I
>removed the heat and cut around the TP5 with the same knife, which had a
>serrated edge and I was using it like a saw.
>For the removal of the tube you need a locking pair of longnose pliers.
>Lock
>
>it onto the edge and slowly remove the thing with a turning motion. You may
>have to cut away a tiny bit of the plywood rib (2 x 5mm) to make room for
>the pliers.
>
>Now having said all that, I suggest you ignore the two techniques above.
>Next time I would simply use the knife and heat it with a blowtorch before
>cutting into the adhesive.
>I didn't do any damage to the foam.
>
>Installing the new TP5:
>
>You need a small flashlight so you can see exactly what is inside the
>tailplane.
>Do a trial fit of the new tube and see if it butts right up against the
>TP6.
>
>If there is any adhesive on the edge of the TP6, then don't disturb it, but
>grind a piece out of the edge of the long tube.
>I had to do that on both sides.
>Once you have a satisfactory fit, mark the tube where it needs to be cut
>off. I used a hacksaw and belt sander to do the necessary trimming.
>Now take the tailplane and do a trial dry fit on the aircraft.
>Remove the new TP5.
>Use a narrow long spatula to apply floxed epoxy to the foam walls and over
>the old adhesive. The flox should be fairly wet, and you need only coat the
>first two thirds of the hole.
>Put a liberal coat of neat epoxy on the tube exterior and insert it slowly
>with a turning motion.
>The tailplane is in the horizontalposition, and at the halfway mark remove
>the surplus flox which has been pushed ahead of the tube. Remove more flox
>again when the tube is fully inserted.
>Now take some time to remove alltrace of adhesive inside the tubes. I used
>rags dampened with acetone, on a long stick. I believe that vinegar can
>also
>
>be used, if you are concerned about foam damage.
>That is about it. Mount the tailplane on the torque tube to ensure perfect
>alignment of the two tubes. If the alignment is not perfect, then adjust by
>applying pressure at the tailplane tip in different directions until the
>TP4
>
>slides in all the way. Make sure also that it was well greased.
>After 4-5 hours of curing pull the tailplanes off again, just to make sure
>that there is no bonding going on in case some more epoxy has seeped out of
>the gap onto the TP4.
>Then push it back on and leave overnight.
>
>Hope that helps,
>
>Karl
>
>
> >From: Bill and Sue <bill.sue@orcon.net.nz>
> >To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative
> >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:55:56 +1300
> >
> >
> >Yes I would be interested as I have not done mine yet .
> >
> >Mono XS
> >ZK CHV
> >914 Airmaster
> >
> >Rgds
> >
> >Sue & Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >Karl Heindl wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube.
> >>After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in
> >>removing the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move
> >>inboard, which would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the
>tailplane
> >>etc. etc.
> >>I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number
> >>03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this
> >>can ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum.
> >>Advantages:
> >>A straightforward mod.
> >>No cutting into the tailplane.
> >>No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6.
> >>A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first
> >>place.)
> >>If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Karl
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>__________ NOD32 2607 (20071022) Information __________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
>power.
>http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_hotmailtextlink2_oc
t
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Bored? Loads of prizes on offer with our free games!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com
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Subject: | Tailplane slots in fuselage |
In re: cutting the slots
The scribe lines on my fuselage were likewise "slightly" off from the actual
location (and size) so I had to practice my fiberglass repair technique in
order to reduce the ridiculously large gap.
In re: trim tab movement
Read on a bit further and the intent is made clear. The next paragraph in
the manual concludes with this sentence: "A maximum total movement of 6
degrees and a minimum of 4.8 degrees OF TAB MOVEMENT (emphasis added)
relative to the tailplane is acceptable
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane slots in fuselage
Hi All,
Step 7 on build manual pg. 19-7 describes the required travel (4 degrees up,
12 degrees down) of the trailing edge of the tailplane from a neutral
position. My fuselage had a faint but discernible ridge line which I
interpreted to be a cut-out line for the slots for the tab link-rod TS05
which I previously followed when cutting out the slots. As I now have the
tailplanes mounted and am measuring to ensure they can achieve the required
travel, I'm finding that my slots are grossly oversized, and most probably
will be quite inviting for small birds and varmints. Have any of you faced
the same situation?
Now that I have marked the location of the tab link-rod in the extreme up
and down positions, and after taking into account the fore and aft movement
of the tab link-rod and adding 1/8" clearances, my intention is to do some
bid patching so that the slot is no larger than required.
I'm unclear as to the meaning of the last sentence on pg. 19-7 where it
states,
"...as the trailing edge of the tailplane is raised the trailing edge of the
tab raises even further, the ratio being approximately 1.3 to 1. Therefore,
when you have raised the trailing edge of the tailplane by 12 degrees, the
tab should have raised 15.6 degrees relative to the tailplane or 27.6
degrees from the zero start position.
A maximum total movement of 18 degrees and a minimum of 14.4 degrees
relative to the tailplane is acceptable."
Does the last sentence intend: A maximum total movement of the trim tab of
18 degrees and a minimum of 14.4 degrees relative to the tailplane is
acceptable."
Or am I really missing the point?
Fred
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Tailplane slots in fuselage |
Fred,
Realizing that the lines were only an approximation, I took care to
start very small with the cuts to the fuse. When checking for
clearance, one should check full deflection in both full up trim and
full down trim positions. There is a noticeable difference in the
clearance at each extreme. I allowed approximately 1/8" all around the
range...
Keep pluggin' away, brother. You'll be flying soon enough... ;)
Jeff - Baby Blue
336 hours
Fred Klein wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Step 7 on build manual pg. 19-7 describes the required travel (4
> degrees up, 12 degrees down) of the trailing edge of the tailplane
> from a neutral position. My fuselage had a faint but discernible ridge
> line which I interpreted to be a cut-out line for the slots for the
> tab link-rod TS05 which I previously followed when cutting out the
> slots. As I now have the tailplanes mounted and am measuring to ensure
> they can achieve the required travel, I'm finding that my slots are
> grossly oversized, and most probably will be quite inviting for small
> birds and varmints. Have any of you faced the same situation?
>
> Now that I have marked the location of the tab link-rod in the extreme
> up and down positions, and after taking into account the fore and aft
> movement of the tab link-rod and adding 1/8" clearances, my intention
> is to do some bid patching so that the slot is no larger than required.
>
> I'm unclear as to the meaning of the last sentence on pg. 19-7 where
> it states,
>
> "...as the trailing edge of the tailplane is raised the trailing edge
> of the tab raises even further, the ratio being approximately 1.3 to
> 1. Therefore, when you have raised the trailing edge of the tailplane
> by 12 degrees, the tab should have raised 15.6 degrees relative to the
> tailplane or 27.6 degrees from the zero start position.
> /A maximum total movement of 18 degrees and a minimum of 14.4 degrees
> relative to the tailplane is acceptable."
>
> /Does the last sentence intend: /A maximum total movement *of the trim
> tab* of 18 degrees and a minimum of 14.4 degrees relative to the
> tailplane is acceptable."
>
> /Or am I really missing the point?
>
> Fred
> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Tailplane slots in fuselage |
On Tuesday, October 23, 2007, at 07:42 PM, Rman wrote:
> Realizing that the lines were only an approximation, I took care to
> start very small with the cuts to the fuse.-
Jeff...thanks bro'...and thank you too Rob,
Old Pennsylvania Dutch Saying: "Why Oh Why do I get so late smarter?"
Fred
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