---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/24/07: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:00 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (craig bastin) 2. 05:58 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Karl Heindl) 3. 08:09 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Rob Housman) 4. 08:54 AM - Re: Mod 73 alternative (Graham Singleton) 5. 03:00 PM - Anyone know who's airplane this is? () 6. 10:06 PM - Re: Anyone know who's airplane this is? (Gert Dalgaard) 7. 11:27 PM - Nose wheel towbar and attachment (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:29 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative yes true, but I believe that the annodes used on outboard motors are zinc, being more reactive than the alloy thus the alloy and the nickle should both become cathodes and therefore not corrode. The annodes are consumed moderately quickly, but it works quite well. As to the teflon i see most people in favour of, you may be able to do it yourself, by using the teflon engine treatments and boil the parts in the solution for an hour or so. they work well in your engine too, I used one (NULON brand) in a car I was having overheating issues in (bigger engine than standard, no room for bigger radiator) and one treatment dropped the running temp by around 20c. I use it in all my motors now, even though i normally run a fully synth race oil as well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 12:44 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative You are on the right track Craig, but you missed the obvious aluminum is a sacrificial anode relative to the nickel plated tube. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:52 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative A couple of sacrificial annodes would resolve the issue of corrosion I think, same as on outboard motors for boats but it is a good point, or if you had the clearance, maybe powder coating the torque tube, or caster oil, only problem with caster oil is it remains tacky, as all the data i have seen on caster oil suggests the only way to remove it completely from a metalic surface is to machine about 1mm off the surface you could simulate an accelerated situation by putting the old bush (tp5) and a piece of the alloy tube in a salt water bath for a week and see what happens, ideally in the same relation as in the aircraft ie one inside the other. just had another thought, maybe a teflon treatment might do the trick on the torque tube or both if you have done the mod yet it would make the tube real easy to get on and off too. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 9:11 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative Hi Karl, The only concern I would have is dissimilar metal corrosion on the torque tube. Not sure how to prevent it between the alu and the torque tube plating besides lots of grease. I suspect that the grease will not be enough however. With the sliding on/off and then sitting in one spot, I would expect some metal on metal contact with the grease being wiped off. Hope I'm wrong, but I've seen too much dissimilar metal corrosion in a variety of situations. Cheers, Pete On 10/22/07, Karl Heindl wrote: My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube. After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in removing the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move inboard, which would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane etc. etc. I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number 03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this can ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum. Advantages: A straightforward mod. No cutting into the tailplane. No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6. A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first place.) If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it. Cheers, Karl _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com 8:48 AM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:04 AM PST US From: "Karl Heindl" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative Now you tell us. I have been trying to think of a pulling tool but couldn't come up with a solution. Anyway, the final outcome was the same. Karl >From: Graham Singleton >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative >Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:17:21 +0100 > > > >Colin Smallwood has an easier way. He made an oval washer, long axis just >more than OD of TP5, on a length of screwed rod, which would pass down the >inside of the TP5 tilted then lock onto the inner end when straightened. A >piece of tube just larger than TP5 rests on the root rib with a washer and >nut on the outer end. Tighten the nut and the TP5 is pulled out. No heat >required. >Graham >Karl Heindl wrote: > >> >>Using the same tube, and with the inside opening sealed with a >>heatresistent material (felt chair glides), I applied a good dose of heat >>with a blowtorch. The tailplane is in an upright position, so that no heat >>finds its way into the foam area. Using a narrow kitchen knife I probed >>the adhesive on the outside of the TP5. When the redux had softened >>enough I removed the heat and cut around the TP5 with the same knife, >>which had a serrated edge and I was using it like a saw. >>For the removal of the tube you need a locking pair of longnose pliers. >>Lock it onto the edge and slowly remove the thing with a turning motion. >>You may have to cut away a tiny bit of the plywood rib (2 x 5mm) to make >>room for the pliers. > > _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:57 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative Craig, it's time for a chemistry lesson. In the electromotive series zinc is between aluminum and nickel (and iron as well) thus making the aluminum in your suggestion the anode that protects the zinc. I suspect that that is not exactly what you intend. Zinc is cheaper than aluminum and sufficiently anodic to steel to be very effective in preventing corrosion whether as a sacrificial anode (a lump of zinc) or a galvanized coating (steel parts dipped in molten zinc or electroplated with zinc). The disadvantage to anodic protection is the fact that the process relies on the consumption of the anode, so when the anode is fully "sacrificed" the corrosion protection ceases. Another important chemistry lesson: Teflon in motor oil is so effective (at clogging oil filters, that is) that DuPont (the developer of the product and owner of the trade name Teflon) refused to sell the stuff to motor oil manufacturers and its reason according to DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano is that "Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines." The only reason that DuPont does provide Teflon for use as a motor oil additive is that the company was sued for "restraint of trade" and lost. Teflon is known as a slippery material to which nothing seems to stick, but that is the proverbial two way street - getting teflon to stick to anything is very difficult and requires a perfectly clean surface, elevated temperature and a vacuum, so "using the teflon engine treatments and boil(ing) the parts in the solution for an hour or so" will make the parts oily but nothing more. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:02 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative yes true, but I believe that the annodes used on outboard motors are zinc, being more reactive than the alloy thus the alloy and the nickle should both become cathodes and therefore not corrode. The annodes are consumed moderately quickly, but it works quite well. As to the teflon i see most people in favour of, you may be able to do it yourself, by using the teflon engine treatments and boil the parts in the solution for an hour or so. they work well in your engine too, I used one (NULON brand) in a car I was having overheating issues in (bigger engine than standard, no room for bigger radiator) and one treatment dropped the running temp by around 20c. I use it in all my motors now, even though i normally run a fully synth race oil as well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 12:44 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative You are on the right track Craig, but you missed the obvious - aluminum is a sacrificial anode relative to the nickel plated tube. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:52 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative A couple of sacrificial annodes would resolve the issue of corrosion I think, same as on outboard motors for boats but it is a good point, or if you had the clearance, maybe powder coating the torque tube, or caster oil, only problem with caster oil is it remains tacky, as all the data i have seen on caster oil suggests the only way to remove it completely from a metalic surface is to machine about 1mm off the surface you could simulate an accelerated situation by putting the old bush (tp5) and a piece of the alloy tube in a salt water bath for a week and see what happens, ideally in the same relation as in the aircraft ie one inside the other. just had another thought, maybe a teflon treatment might do the trick on the torque tube or both if you have done the mod yet it would make the tube real easy to get on and off too. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative Hi Karl, The only concern I would have is dissimilar metal corrosion on the torque tube. Not sure how to prevent it between the alu and the torque tube plating besides lots of grease. I suspect that the grease will not be enough however. With the sliding on/off and then sitting in one spot, I would expect some metal on metal contact with the grease being wiped off. Hope I'm wrong, but I've seen too much dissimilar metal corrosion in a variety of situations. Cheers, Pete On 10/22/07, Karl Heindl wrote: > My original plan was to replace both TP5 and TP6 with a single tube. After removing the TP5 I realized that there was no point at all in removing the TP6. It is only necessary to ensure that it cannot move inboard, which would then allow the TP12 to disconnect from the tailplane etc. etc. I simply replaced the TP5 with a longer alu tube from ACS, part number 03-37900. This butts right up against the TP6, and there is no way this can ever move inboard. The tube is made of 6061 T6 aluminum. Advantages: A straightforward mod. No cutting into the tailplane. No misalignment problem with TP5 and TP6. A permanent solution. ( assuming that there was a problem in the first place.) If anyone is interested I can give more details on how I did it. Cheers, Karl _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:47 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 73 alternative sorry I was too late for you Karl! Graham Karl Heindl wrote: > > > Now you tell us. I have been trying to think of a pulling tool but > couldn't come up with a solution. > Anyway, the final outcome was the same. > > Karl > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:01 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Anyone know who's airplane this is? From: Anyone know who's Europa is on Warp Drives website? It appears that he is using a cooling air baffle on right side, and cooling air on left side and has a Katana Extreme replication of intake duct for radiators. Anyone have any information on this plane? How cooling works? Is there the two cooling intake holes in front of cylinders? Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:11 PM PST US From: Gert Dalgaard Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone know who's airplane this is? You see OY-NJK - mono, 914, electric flaps and outriggers etc. Builder is Niels and Jens Kristensen, Denmark. Cooling works great. Gert OY-GDS http://www.flyhistorie.dk/minefly/flyregs/oy-njk.htm Den 24/10/2007 kl. 23.56 skrev : > Anyone know who's Europa is on Warp Drives website? > > It appears that he is using a cooling air baffle on right side, and > cooling air on left side and has a Katana Extreme replication of > intake > duct for radiators. > > Anyone have any information on this plane? How cooling works? Is > there the > two cooling intake holes in front of cylinders? > > Ron Parigoris > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:29 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Nose wheel towbar and attachment Does anyone have a proven solution for a towbar and its attachment to the nose gear? I have the factory's wheel fairing installed. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.