Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:12 AM - List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:55 AM - Re: Epoxy Question (John Cliff)
2. 01:33 AM - Re: Epoxy Question (Laptop JR)
3. 04:33 AM - Re: baggage bay (Robert Borger)
4. 04:41 AM - Re: Fw: turbo problem? (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
5. 04:54 AM - Re: baggage bay (Michel AUVRAY)
6. 05:31 AM - Re: baggage bay (Robert Borger)
7. 06:05 AM - Spares for sale (Ian Swankie)
8. 07:28 AM - Re: Epoxy Question (G&TPowell)
9. 08:39 AM - Re: Epoxy Question (Rick Stockton)
Message 0
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| Subject: | List of Contributors |
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Question |
> I have a question for the builders list. I bought an "orphaned" Europa
> Clasic
> kit and the former builder didn't get too far with it. I am currently
> building
> the wings and I am using fresh MGS epoxy because I was concerned that
> the Ampreg Epoxy that came with the original kit in the early to mid
> nineties
> was past its usable shelf life.
Many years ago I contacted SP about the useful life of Ampreg. The
technical adviser said that the shelf life they publish was underwritten by
periodic tests on batch samples kept at their factory and they had satisfied
themselves that it remained usable at 2 years. Unfortunately they kept no
samples older than 2 years (as their primary customers for Ampreg 20 were in
the boat building industry and typically used the resin soon after buying
it) so they couldn't comment on older batches. She did say that she
wouldn't be surprised if the material was still entirely usable for our
purposes beyond that time but that they could not vouch for it. She also
said that some properties such as the viscosity, affecting ease of use, and
'setting time' might drift out of spec. beyond 2 years, without
significantly affecting ultimate strength. Always assuming storage within
the spec. parameters, of course.
They would (then) be willing to test a sample older than 2 years supplied by
a customer to see if it was still viable, but the cost made it prohibitive
unless you had a number of packs from the same batch.
Like you I have found that well-out-of-date Ampreg cures perfectly well and
I have used t for a number of round-the-house jobs. I wouldn't use it for
the aircraft, though (and you must not do so in the UK).
John Cliff
#0259
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Question |
Dear Jeff
I am not a guru but I believe the materails last for years; but
unfortunately you can't prove it without testing gear.
I am using some 1996 Ampreg for my filling and still have 4 cans of resing
left. However I threw out the hardeners about 3 years ago because the
plastic containers had shrivelled and I thought some of the contents had
leaked out. I weighted another bottle which did not look too good and found
the weight had not changed from the time it had been packed and that is the
one I am still using for filling.
I have switched to West System for Mod 74 work.
JR (Bob)
Gowing UK Kit 324 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:09 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Epoxy Question
> <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
>
>
> Dear Europa Gurus',
>
> I have a question for the builders list. I bought an "orphaned" Europa
> Clasic kit and the former builder didn't get too far with it. I am
> currently building the wings and I am using fresh MGS epoxy because I was
> concerned that the Ampreg Epoxy that came with the original kit in the
> early to mid nineties was past its usable shelf life.
>
> With that in mind and just for the hell of it: Out of curiosity I mixed up
> a 100 grams of an already opened Ampreg epoxy container and took some
> scrap fiberglass and did a lay-up and low and behold the old epoxy cured
> rock hard and seems ok.
>
> My question is could I use this old epoxy that came with the original
> buyers kit?
>
> And if it can be used could it be used on structural parts? Or if it
> cannot be used in a structural capacity could it be used on
> non-structural parts? (say final coating and fairing)
>
> I'm really curious to say the least. In a nutshell it would be great to
> use and save quite a bit of money as opposed to harden it all so it could
> be thrown away into a land fill. I guess I could epoxy a garage floor or
> use it on an old boat of furniture project?
>
> I curious to see what you all have to say; thank you for your time and
> consideration.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Paris
> Now Flying a Zenith Ch601XL Jab3300 185 total hours N196ZP
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
> --
> 12/11/2007 9:19 PM
>
Message 3
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Michel,
Thanks, I am hoping that it will be as functional as it looks.
I did not build the panel. It was build by Gulf Coast Avionics in Lakeland, Florida.
I told them what I wanted, provided a bushel of $$$$ and they built it
for me. After I received it and gave it a good inspection, there were a number
of wiring errors that had to be corrected. I also had to change/add some components
as the aircraft build evolved over last 5 years. Things such as adding
the big alternator.
When the panel was originally planned, designed and built there were no affordable
EFIS (eg. Dynon) available or I would have probably incorporated one. One
of these down winters, I hope to add a TruTrak Pictorial Pilot and, eventually,
I would like to add a Grand Rapids Technology Graphical EIS and EFIS. But
I will have to save my pennies for a while before that happens.
There are pics of the panel, front and back, scattered through my build site.
If you would like any pic(s) of any item(s) in particular let me know and I'd
be glad to take them and send them to you.
Best regards,
Bob Borger
On Tuesday, November 13, 2007, at 01:41AM, "Michel AUVRAY" <mau11@free.fr> wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>I have seen your pictures and love your panel.
>Do you have made yourself?
>And have you any others pictures and panel dimensions?
>If it is possible to send to me off
>my email is "mau11@free.fr"
>
>Thanks
>Michel AUVRAY
>Builder N?145 > 320 hours flight with my monowheel.
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de rlborger
> Envoye : mardi 13 novembre 2007 00:30
> A : europa-list@matronics.com
> Objet : Re: Europa-List: baggage bay
>
>
> Paul,
>
>
> Go to http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
>
>
> I have an album for the interior kit. There is a pic of the baggage bay in
>this album. It may not be a detailed as you wish, but it's the best I have.
>
>
> Good building and great flying,
> Bob Borger
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
> (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system
>in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top
>on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,
>Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete.
>Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the
>3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for
>testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32 Tail, 34
>Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep
>05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is being
>installed.
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208
> Home: 940-497-2123
> Cel: 817-992-1117
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2007, at 3:54 PM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>
>
><europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
>
> Can anyone direct me to photos of the baggage bay area (upholstered) of
>a mono? The factory instructions for their upholstery kit are incomplete.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Paul
> G-GIDY
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: turbo problem? |
David
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcarpenter@comcast.net
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: turbo problem?
You can check the turbo blade rotation by carefully inserting a 12
point socket wrench into the turbo after spraying the bearing with Mouse
Milk or similar lubricant. I think the size wrench is 10mm but not
positive. That solved my problem. Gentle is the word and if all else
fails you can send the turbo to Lockwood.
Ken Carpenter
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Hi Herve
>
> A few thoughts from a not yet flyin 914 owner:
> Are both of your carbs opening full?
> Are you getting 2 to 5PSI over airbox pressure?
> How many hours you have on motor? Do you run a lot of 100LL? If
you run 100LL do
> you run Alcor or TCP? Did you run differential compression test,
how was it?
> What type of prop you have, is it CS or pilot adjustable?
> You absolute certain wastegate is free and easy to move and is
closing all the
> way?
> Do you have a intercooler? What is ambient temperature where you
are having
> problem and at what altitude?
> What does trying one mag then th e othe Email
Message 5
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Thank you Bob,
I am interested by pictures of front face if it is possible in the middle
front axes aircraft, and rear vue with panel construction details (panel
removed).
I refresh my panel because originally I don't have separable panels parts.
It is a big mistake, because if there is a bad contact or small other
problem, it is necessary to remove the complete panel from the fuselage.
Thanks for all of yours pictures.
--|--
--------(*)--------
Michel AUVRAY
mau11@free.fr
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Robert
Borger
Envoy : mardi 13 novembre 2007 13:26
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : RE: Europa-List: baggage bay
Michel,
Thanks, I am hoping that it will be as functional as it looks.
I did not build the panel. It was build by Gulf Coast Avionics in Lakeland,
Florida. I told them what I wanted, provided a bushel of $$$$ and they
built it for me. After I received it and gave it a good inspection, there
were a number of wiring errors that had to be corrected. I also had to
change/add some components as the aircraft build evolved over last 5 years.
Things such as adding the big alternator.
When the panel was originally planned, designed and built there were no
affordable EFIS (eg. Dynon) available or I would have probably incorporated
one. One of these down winters, I hope to add a TruTrak Pictorial Pilot
and, eventually, I would like to add a Grand Rapids Technology Graphical EIS
and EFIS. But I will have to save my pennies for a while before that
happens.
There are pics of the panel, front and back, scattered through my build
site. If you would like any pic(s) of any item(s) in particular let me know
and I'd be glad to take them and send them to you.
Best regards,
Bob Borger
On Tuesday, November 13, 2007, at 01:41AM, "Michel AUVRAY" <mau11@free.fr>
wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>I have seen your pictures and love your panel.
>Do you have made yourself?
>And have you any others pictures and panel dimensions?
>If it is possible to send to me off
>my email is "mau11@free.fr"
>
>Thanks
>Michel AUVRAY
>Builder N?145 > 320 hours flight with my monowheel.
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de rlborger
> Envoye : mardi 13 novembre 2007 00:30
> A : europa-list@matronics.com
> Objet : Re: Europa-List: baggage bay
>
>
> Paul,
>
>
> Go to http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
>
>
> I have an album for the interior kit. There is a pic of the baggage bay
in
>this album. It may not be a detailed as you wish, but it's the best I have.
>
>
> Good building and great flying,
> Bob Borger
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
> (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system
>in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top
>on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,
>Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete.
>Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the
>3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for
>testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32 Tail, 34
>Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep
>05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is
being
>installed.
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208
> Home: 940-497-2123
> Cel: 817-992-1117
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2007, at 3:54 PM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>
>
><europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
>
> Can anyone direct me to photos of the baggage bay area (upholstered) of
>a mono? The factory instructions for their upholstery kit are incomplete.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Paul
> G-GIDY
>
>
Message 6
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Michal,
I will assemble all the pics of the instrument panel and make them available for
you.
I won't be able to take any further pics of the back because I don't want to ever
remove that panel again if I can avoid it. It took three of us over three
hours to put it in the last time. YES, you do want the front panels holding the
instruments to be removable from the big instrument panel. And allow plenty
of "service loop" on each of the instruments so the panel can be moved far enough
from the main instrument panel to do any good.
I will let you know when the images are on my FTP site and available for you.
Check six,
Bob Borger
On Tuesday, November 13, 2007, at 07:09AM, "Michel AUVRAY" <mau11@free.fr> wrote:
>
>Thank you Bob,
>I am interested by pictures of front face if it is possible in the middle
>front axes aircraft, and rear vue with panel construction details (panel
>removed).
>
>I refresh my panel because originally I don't have separable panels parts.
>It is a big mistake, because if there is a bad contact or small other
>problem, it is necessary to remove the complete panel from the fuselage.
>
>Thanks for all of yours pictures.
>
> --|--
>--------(*)--------
>Michel AUVRAY
>mau11@free.fr
>
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Robert
>Borger
>Envoy : mardi 13 novembre 2007 13:26
> : europa-list@matronics.com
>Objet : RE: Europa-List: baggage bay
>
>
>
>Michel,
>
>Thanks, I am hoping that it will be as functional as it looks.
>
>I did not build the panel. It was build by Gulf Coast Avionics in Lakeland,
>Florida. I told them what I wanted, provided a bushel of $$$$ and they
>built it for me. After I received it and gave it a good inspection, there
>were a number of wiring errors that had to be corrected. I also had to
>change/add some components as the aircraft build evolved over last 5 years.
>Things such as adding the big alternator.
>
>When the panel was originally planned, designed and built there were no
>affordable EFIS (eg. Dynon) available or I would have probably incorporated
>one. One of these down winters, I hope to add a TruTrak Pictorial Pilot
>and, eventually, I would like to add a Grand Rapids Technology Graphical EIS
>and EFIS. But I will have to save my pennies for a while before that
>happens.
>
>There are pics of the panel, front and back, scattered through my build
>site. If you would like any pic(s) of any item(s) in particular let me know
>and I'd be glad to take them and send them to you.
>
>Best regards,
>Bob Borger
>
>On Tuesday, November 13, 2007, at 01:41AM, "Michel AUVRAY" <mau11@free.fr>
>wrote:
>>Hi Bob,
>>I have seen your pictures and love your panel.
>>Do you have made yourself?
>>And have you any others pictures and panel dimensions?
>>If it is possible to send to me off
>>my email is "mau11@free.fr"
>>
>>Thanks
>>Michel AUVRAY
>>Builder N?145 > 320 hours flight with my monowheel.
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de rlborger
>> Envoye : mardi 13 novembre 2007 00:30
>> A : europa-list@matronics.com
>> Objet : Re: Europa-List: baggage bay
>>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>>
>> Go to http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
>>
>>
>> I have an album for the interior kit. There is a pic of the baggage bay
>in
>>this album. It may not be a detailed as you wish, but it's the best I have.
>>
>>
>> Good building and great flying,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
>> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
>> (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system
>>in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top
>>on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,
>>Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete.
>>Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the
>>3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for
>>testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32 Tail, 34
>>Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep
>>05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is
>being
>>installed.
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208
>> Home: 940-497-2123
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2007, at 3:54 PM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>>
>>
>><europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone direct me to photos of the baggage bay area (upholstered) of
>>a mono? The factory instructions for their upholstery kit are incomplete.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Paul
>> G-GIDY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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Dear listers
Five years after taking delivery of the kit, our Europa G-CHOX is
(hopefully) nearing the Big Smile Day.
Meanwhile, we have a few items of surplus kit which could be useful to other
builders, and we are selling these at big discounts.
Details on www.gchox.co.uk/spares.htm
Ian Swankie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Question |
Please see my post of August 7, 2007. In it I detailed my bench test of a batch
of Araldite with an "expire" date in 2006. I related my detailed records of
the test, but I don't have the math background to calculate the forces involved.
I did this test after reading an extensive prior thread relating to epoxy expiration.
The gist of the replies was that the expiration date listed on the can
is related to the length of time the manufacturer keeps its batch records. One
poster related his conversation with an expert in epoxies, who said that the
"out of date" epoxy should be usable, if stored properly.
I am comfortable with the performance of my Araldite based on my test, as it appears
that the Araldite will be the last component to fail (after laid-up fiberglass
parts). After all, what is the supposed shelf life of other components
used in our aircraft?
Everything about building your own aircraft entails some risk. Get as much information
as possible and make your own assessment, as I did. I would recommend
reading the earlier thread with the expiration discussion; it's very enlightening.
George Powell
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Question |
Jeffrey, Here's the reply I got when I asked the same question you have from the
manufactor.
Dear Mr. Stockton,
Thank you for your inquiry regarding Aeropoxy PR2032 (Y1898) and PH3660 (Y1901).
These two products were made in July, 2001. We put a one-year shelf life
on all epoxy products only because that is the standard for the industry. That
is an arbitrary length of time to limit liability. Actually epoxies are quite
stable and are good for many years in unopened containers. If I were building
a car or boat with 6-year old material, I would not be concerned. If I were
building an aircraft that I was going to fly, I probably would use fresh material.
The only way to know for sure is to retest the material. By the time
you paid freight and for our lab time, it would be less expensive to buy new
material. Save the existing material for non-aircraft applications.
Best Regards,
Bill Romey
bromey@ptm-w.com
800 421-1518
www.ptm-w.com
Jeffrey J Paris <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com> wrote:
Dear Europa Gurus',
I have a question for the builders list. I bought an "orphaned" Europa Clasic kit
and the former builder didn't get too far with it. I am currently building
the wings and I am using fresh MGS epoxy because I was concerned that the Ampreg
Epoxy that came with the original kit in the early to mid nineties was past
its usable shelf life.
With that in mind and just for the hell of it: Out of curiosity I mixed up a 100
grams of an already opened Ampreg epoxy container and took some scrap fiberglass
and did a lay-up and low and behold the old epoxy cured rock hard and seems
ok.
My question is could I use this old epoxy that came with the original buyers kit?
And if it can be used could it be used on structural parts? Or if it cannot be
used in a structural capacity could it be used on non-structural parts? (say final
coating and fairing)
I'm really curious to say the least. In a nutshell it would be great to use and
save quite a bit of money as opposed to harden it all so it could be thrown away
into a land fill. I guess I could epoxy a garage floor or use it on an old
boat of furniture project?
I curious to see what you all have to say; thank you for your time and consideration.
Regards,
Jeff Paris
Now Flying a Zenith Ch601XL Jab3300 185 total hours N196ZP
_______________________________________________
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