Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:08 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:54 AM - Wanted: Winter ASI (Remi Guerner)
2. 01:12 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Paul Atkinson)
3. 02:37 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
4. 02:56 AM - Re : Wanted: Winter ASI (Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr)
5. 03:22 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (craig bastin)
6. 03:57 AM - Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Mark Burton)
7. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Paul Atkinson)
8. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Paul McAllister)
9. 06:26 AM - Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Mark Burton)
10. 11:46 AM - RE Throttle Cables (Troy Maynor)
11. 01:56 PM - For Sale***Europa, MotorGlider, Monowheel (JOE PROCTOR)
Message 0
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Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! And pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | Wanted: Winter ASI |
Hi all,
I am looking for a Winter airspeed indicator with XS color markings, as
sold by the Europa factory for 208 Pounds. I do not want to pay that
much.
If you are upgrading to a glass panel and have this instrument
available, please contact me off list.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 538 hours
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges |
Michael
I am probably totally biased now but I have to disagree. I can't comment
on any extra brain activity that may be required but having sat in front
of several different types of digital display over a number of years I
find them just as easy to use as analogue ones and actually prefer them.
Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure
that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing,
particularly in low speed flight near the ground.
My car has a digital display (no analogue) and although it took a bit of
getting used to I am very comfortable with it now, and no longer feel that
an analogue display is necessary at all.
Regards
Paul Atkinson
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:53:40 -0000, Michael Grass <M.Grass@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Martin,
> Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the
> pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to
> process the numbers and compare them mentally.
> In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog
> and digital representation in one instrument.
> Example is at
> http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html
> .
> The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature
> and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded.
> You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation
> industry if you look further.
> Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a
> short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area.
> Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason
> why the digital representation in a car never took of.
> Regards
> Michael Grass
> A266 Trigear
> Detroit
>
--
/
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges |
Paul,
I agree about the car thing; but in that instance a specific number is being
sought (i.e. speed, to enable mental comparison to a limiting speed).
I have to say that an analogue needle pointing to a green arc can be seen
from the corner of an eye, without need to focus, read and interpret. Much
easier in my view. Helps if the gauges aren't mounted at the bottom of the
panel, however.
The alarm facility on the digital gauges is without equal, especially as
analogue gauges probably don't get looked at very often, or not at the
precise moment needed !
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Atkinson" <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
> <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
>
> Michael
>
> I am probably totally biased now but I have to disagree. I can't comment
> on any extra brain activity that may be required but having sat in front
> of several different types of digital display over a number of years I
> find them just as easy to use as analogue ones and actually prefer them.
> Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure
> that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing,
> particularly in low speed flight near the ground.
> My car has a digital display (no analogue) and although it took a bit of
> getting used to I am very comfortable with it now, and no longer feel that
> an analogue display is necessary at all.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Paul Atkinson
>
>
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:53:40 -0000, Michael Grass <M.Grass@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Martin,
>> Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the
>> pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to
>> process the numbers and compare them mentally.
>> In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog
>> and digital representation in one instrument.
>> Example is at
>> http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html
>> .
>> The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature
>> and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded.
>> You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation
>> industry if you look further.
>> Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a
>> short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area.
>> Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason
>> why the digital representation in a car never took of.
>> Regards
>> Michael Grass
>> A266 Trigear
>> Detroit
>>
>
>
> --
> /
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Wanted: Winter ASI |
> I am looking for a Winter airspeed indicator with XS color
> markings, as sold by the Europa factory for 208 Pounds. I do not
> want to pay that much.
Remi,
Custom marked ASIs can be purchased direct from Winter. I did that last year for
two buddies.
The 2" 1/4 instruments are more expensive, though.
Hope this helps,
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges |
Not sure about pilot training in the UK and US but most of the schools in
Australia
teach students to a C.L.E.A.R.O.F.F check every 15 minutes. A LOT can happen
to an engine
in 15 minutes (personal experience) and an alarm IMHO is the best way to go
as people get
tired and thus less vigilent, and you may be checking t's & p's etc, but not
actually
"seeing" them regardless of the gauge style especially on longer flights,
one option
for analogue gauges is to align them in the same way the old race cars did,
so all the needles should
point straight up or down under normal conditions, that way any needle not
vertical is instantly evident, it does however
give your panel an odd look with all your gauges at crazy angles.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Duncan & Ami
McFadyean
Sent: Sunday, 18 November 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
<ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Paul,
I agree about the car thing; but in that instance a specific number is being
sought (i.e. speed, to enable mental comparison to a limiting speed).
I have to say that an analogue needle pointing to a green arc can be seen
from the corner of an eye, without need to focus, read and interpret. Much
easier in my view. Helps if the gauges aren't mounted at the bottom of the
panel, however.
The alarm facility on the digital gauges is without equal, especially as
analogue gauges probably don't get looked at very often, or not at the
precise moment needed !
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Atkinson" <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
> <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
>
> Michael
>
> I am probably totally biased now but I have to disagree. I can't comment
> on any extra brain activity that may be required but having sat in front
> of several different types of digital display over a number of years I
> find them just as easy to use as analogue ones and actually prefer them.
> Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure
> that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing,
> particularly in low speed flight near the ground.
> My car has a digital display (no analogue) and although it took a bit of
> getting used to I am very comfortable with it now, and no longer feel that
> an analogue display is necessary at all.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Paul Atkinson
>
>
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:53:40 -0000, Michael Grass <M.Grass@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Martin,
>> Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the
>> pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to
>> process the numbers and compare them mentally.
>> In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog
>> and digital representation in one instrument.
>> Example is at
>>
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.
html
>> .
>> The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature
>> and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded.
>> You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation
>> industry if you look further.
>> Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a
>> short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area.
>> Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason
>> why the digital representation in a car never took of.
>> Regards
>> Michael Grass
>> A266 Trigear
>> Detroit
>>
>
>
> --
> /
>
>
2:55 PM
2:55 PM
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges |
> Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure
> that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing,
> particularly in low speed flight near the ground.
In that case, why not use a talking ASI? With one of those you don't have to look
at the panel at all - you can keep your eyes outside which has to be a good
thing from the safety point of view if you happen to find yourself low and slow.
Obviously, if you are a highly trained pilot who flies lots of hours in glass cockpits
then digital readouts would probably be no problem but for your average
pilot who doesn't fly so many hours, digital readouts would, perhaps, be less
easy to read quickly than an old fashioned "steam" gauge. Maybe a digital ASI
would not be a good thing but for the other instruments, it probably makes no
difference from the safety point of view whether they are digital or analogue.
Cheers,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146826#146826
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges |
Mark
Why not indeed. The only drawback that I can think of is that the constant
chatter might become very irritating. If you can design one that talks
when asked to, shuts up when told to, and otherwise gives the odd warning
automatically now and again you might have a winner. There's a challenge :)
If anything glass displays IMHO make things easier for everyone,
experienced or not. Most that I have seen combine digital and analogue and
because all the information you need is contained in a smaller area
(compared to steam gauges) scanning it is a simpler task.
Regards
Paul
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:55:54 -0000, Mark Burton <markb@ordern.com> wrote:
> In that case, why not use a talking ASI? With one of those you don't
> have to look at the panel at all - you can keep your eyes outside which
> has to be a good thing from the safety point of view if you happen to
> find yourself low and slow.
> Obviously, if you are a highly trained pilot who flies lots of hours in
> glass cockpits then digital readouts would probably be no problem but
> for your average pilot who doesn't fly so many hours, digital readouts
> would, perhaps, be less easy to read quickly than an old fashioned
> "steam" gauge. Maybe a digital ASI would not be a good thing but for the
> other instruments, it probably makes no difference from the safety point
> of view whether they are digital or analogue.
> Cheers,
> Mark
--
/
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges |
Hi folks,
Well I would like to share my experience with using digital only
displays in my aircraft. I had the exact same concern that it would
take some level of interpretation, but I really didn't find it a
problem at all. I actually find it quite seamless. The only
exception might be when something is trending, but to be honest I
haven't had any experiences one way or the other.
At the end of the day I think it really depends on the individual on
how their brain is "wired" to receive and interpret data... we are all
different in that regard.
Cheers, Paul
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges |
> Why not indeed. The only drawback that I can think of is that the constant
> chatter might become very irritating. If you can design one that talks
> when asked to, shuts up when told to, and otherwise gives the odd warning
> automatically now and again you might have a winner. There's a challenge
Such a thing is already available - the technology is straightforward, the real
challenge is getting people to buy them!
Cheers,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146850#146850
Message 10
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Subject: | RE Throttle Cables |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Michel, Troy and all
We are also using a 1.5 mm dia piano wire, along with many Rotax fellow
fliers.
Best regards,
--
Gilles>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks Gilles,
And can you tell me where I can find this size wire? As long as it's music
wire, will it work? What is the metalurgic properties? Is it stainless? Do
you think .055" would work also?
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
Message 11
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Subject: | For Sale***Europa, MotorGlider, Monowheel |
.For Sale***Europa Motor Glider Kit: Best offer
The Europa Airframe kits consist of everything aft of the firewall, excludi
ng paint, upholstery, flight instruments, windscreen and avionics. It does
include seat cushions from Oregon Aero, the rudder is the only component
finished to date.
Please reply to Joe @ 503-659-5154 or projoe54@msn.com
Located in Portland Oregon
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