Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 11/18/07


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:08 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
     1. 12:54 AM - Wanted: Winter ASI (Remi Guerner)
     2. 01:12 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Paul Atkinson)
     3. 02:37 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
     4. 02:56 AM - Re : Wanted: Winter ASI (Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr)
     5. 03:22 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (craig bastin)
     6. 03:57 AM - Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Mark Burton)
     7. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Paul Atkinson)
     8. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Paul McAllister)
     9. 06:26 AM - Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Mark Burton)
    10. 11:46 AM - RE Throttle Cables (Troy Maynor)
    11. 01:56 PM - For Sale***Europa, MotorGlider, Monowheel (JOE PROCTOR)
 
 
 


Message 0


  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:08:26 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
    Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great List services!! And pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution too! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator


    Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:54:23 AM PST US
    From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@wanadoo.fr>
    Subject: Wanted: Winter ASI
    Hi all, I am looking for a Winter airspeed indicator with XS color markings, as sold by the Europa factory for 208 Pounds. I do not want to pay that much. If you are upgrading to a glass panel and have this instrument available, please contact me off list. Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 538 hours


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:12:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
    From: "Paul Atkinson" <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
    Michael I am probably totally biased now but I have to disagree. I can't comment on any extra brain activity that may be required but having sat in front of several different types of digital display over a number of years I find them just as easy to use as analogue ones and actually prefer them. Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing, particularly in low speed flight near the ground. My car has a digital display (no analogue) and although it took a bit of getting used to I am very comfortable with it now, and no longer feel that an analogue display is necessary at all. Regards Paul Atkinson On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:53:40 -0000, Michael Grass <M.Grass@comcast.net> wrote: > Martin, > Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the > pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to > process the numbers and compare them mentally. > In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog > and digital representation in one instrument. > Example is at > http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html > . > The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature > and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded. > You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation > industry if you look further. > Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a > short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area. > Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason > why the digital representation in a car never took of. > Regards > Michael Grass > A266 Trigear > Detroit > -- /


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:37:48 AM PST US
    From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
    Paul, I agree about the car thing; but in that instance a specific number is being sought (i.e. speed, to enable mental comparison to a limiting speed). I have to say that an analogue needle pointing to a green arc can be seen from the corner of an eye, without need to focus, read and interpret. Much easier in my view. Helps if the gauges aren't mounted at the bottom of the panel, however. The alarm facility on the digital gauges is without equal, especially as analogue gauges probably don't get looked at very often, or not at the precise moment needed ! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Atkinson" <paullatkinson@talktalk.net> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges > <paullatkinson@talktalk.net> > > Michael > > I am probably totally biased now but I have to disagree. I can't comment > on any extra brain activity that may be required but having sat in front > of several different types of digital display over a number of years I > find them just as easy to use as analogue ones and actually prefer them. > Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure > that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing, > particularly in low speed flight near the ground. > My car has a digital display (no analogue) and although it took a bit of > getting used to I am very comfortable with it now, and no longer feel that > an analogue display is necessary at all. > > Regards > > > Paul Atkinson > > > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:53:40 -0000, Michael Grass <M.Grass@comcast.net> > wrote: > >> Martin, >> Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the >> pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to >> process the numbers and compare them mentally. >> In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog >> and digital representation in one instrument. >> Example is at >> http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html >> . >> The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature >> and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded. >> You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation >> industry if you look further. >> Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a >> short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area. >> Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason >> why the digital representation in a car never took of. >> Regards >> Michael Grass >> A266 Trigear >> Detroit >> > > > -- > / > > >


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:56:05 AM PST US
    From: Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr
    Subject: Wanted: Winter ASI
    > I am looking for a Winter airspeed indicator with XS color > markings, as sold by the Europa factory for 208 Pounds. I do not > want to pay that much. Remi, Custom marked ASIs can be purchased direct from Winter. I did that last year for two buddies. The 2" 1/4 instruments are more expensive, though. Hope this helps, Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:22:03 AM PST US
    From: "craig bastin" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
    Not sure about pilot training in the UK and US but most of the schools in Australia teach students to a C.L.E.A.R.O.F.F check every 15 minutes. A LOT can happen to an engine in 15 minutes (personal experience) and an alarm IMHO is the best way to go as people get tired and thus less vigilent, and you may be checking t's & p's etc, but not actually "seeing" them regardless of the gauge style especially on longer flights, one option for analogue gauges is to align them in the same way the old race cars did, so all the needles should point straight up or down under normal conditions, that way any needle not vertical is instantly evident, it does however give your panel an odd look with all your gauges at crazy angles. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Duncan & Ami McFadyean Sent: Sunday, 18 November 2007 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> Paul, I agree about the car thing; but in that instance a specific number is being sought (i.e. speed, to enable mental comparison to a limiting speed). I have to say that an analogue needle pointing to a green arc can be seen from the corner of an eye, without need to focus, read and interpret. Much easier in my view. Helps if the gauges aren't mounted at the bottom of the panel, however. The alarm facility on the digital gauges is without equal, especially as analogue gauges probably don't get looked at very often, or not at the precise moment needed ! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Atkinson" <paullatkinson@talktalk.net> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges > <paullatkinson@talktalk.net> > > Michael > > I am probably totally biased now but I have to disagree. I can't comment > on any extra brain activity that may be required but having sat in front > of several different types of digital display over a number of years I > find them just as easy to use as analogue ones and actually prefer them. > Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure > that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing, > particularly in low speed flight near the ground. > My car has a digital display (no analogue) and although it took a bit of > getting used to I am very comfortable with it now, and no longer feel that > an analogue display is necessary at all. > > Regards > > > Paul Atkinson > > > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:53:40 -0000, Michael Grass <M.Grass@comcast.net> > wrote: > >> Martin, >> Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the >> pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to >> process the numbers and compare them mentally. >> In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog >> and digital representation in one instrument. >> Example is at >> http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles. html >> . >> The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature >> and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded. >> You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation >> industry if you look further. >> Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a >> short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area. >> Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason >> why the digital representation in a car never took of. >> Regards >> Michael Grass >> A266 Trigear >> Detroit >> > > > -- > / > > 2:55 PM 2:55 PM


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:57:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
    From: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
    > Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure > that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing, > particularly in low speed flight near the ground. In that case, why not use a talking ASI? With one of those you don't have to look at the panel at all - you can keep your eyes outside which has to be a good thing from the safety point of view if you happen to find yourself low and slow. Obviously, if you are a highly trained pilot who flies lots of hours in glass cockpits then digital readouts would probably be no problem but for your average pilot who doesn't fly so many hours, digital readouts would, perhaps, be less easy to read quickly than an old fashioned "steam" gauge. Maybe a digital ASI would not be a good thing but for the other instruments, it probably makes no difference from the safety point of view whether they are digital or analogue. Cheers, Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146826#146826


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:54:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
    From: "Paul Atkinson" <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
    Mark Why not indeed. The only drawback that I can think of is that the constant chatter might become very irritating. If you can design one that talks when asked to, shuts up when told to, and otherwise gives the odd warning automatically now and again you might have a winner. There's a challenge :) If anything glass displays IMHO make things easier for everyone, experienced or not. Most that I have seen combine digital and analogue and because all the information you need is contained in a smaller area (compared to steam gauges) scanning it is a simpler task. Regards Paul On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:55:54 -0000, Mark Burton <markb@ordern.com> wrote: > In that case, why not use a talking ASI? With one of those you don't > have to look at the panel at all - you can keep your eyes outside which > has to be a good thing from the safety point of view if you happen to > find yourself low and slow. > Obviously, if you are a highly trained pilot who flies lots of hours in > glass cockpits then digital readouts would probably be no problem but > for your average pilot who doesn't fly so many hours, digital readouts > would, perhaps, be less easy to read quickly than an old fashioned > "steam" gauge. Maybe a digital ASI would not be a good thing but for the > other instruments, it probably makes no difference from the safety point > of view whether they are digital or analogue. > Cheers, > Mark -- /


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:21:14 AM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
    Hi folks, Well I would like to share my experience with using digital only displays in my aircraft. I had the exact same concern that it would take some level of interpretation, but I really didn't find it a problem at all. I actually find it quite seamless. The only exception might be when something is trending, but to be honest I haven't had any experiences one way or the other. At the end of the day I think it really depends on the individual on how their brain is "wired" to receive and interpret data... we are all different in that regard. Cheers, Paul


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:26:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges
    From: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
    > Why not indeed. The only drawback that I can think of is that the constant > chatter might become very irritating. If you can design one that talks > when asked to, shuts up when told to, and otherwise gives the odd warning > automatically now and again you might have a winner. There's a challenge Such a thing is already available - the technology is straightforward, the real challenge is getting people to buy them! Cheers, Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146850#146850


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:46:21 AM PST US
    From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
    Subject: RE Throttle Cables
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michel, Troy and all We are also using a 1.5 mm dia piano wire, along with many Rotax fellow fliers. Best regards, -- Gilles>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Gilles, And can you tell me where I can find this size wire? As long as it's music wire, will it work? What is the metalurgic properties? Is it stainless? Do you think .055" would work also? Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring. Weaverville, NC USA


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:56:02 PM PST US
    From: JOE PROCTOR <projoe54@msn.com>
    Subject: For Sale***Europa, MotorGlider, Monowheel
    .For Sale***Europa Motor Glider Kit: Best offer The Europa Airframe kits consist of everything aft of the firewall, excludi ng paint, upholstery, flight instruments, windscreen and avionics. It does include seat cushions from Oregon Aero, the rudder is the only component finished to date. Please reply to Joe @ 503-659-5154 or projoe54@msn.com Located in Portland Oregon




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   europa-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list
  • Browse Europa-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --