---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/19/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:16 AM - Gemini Diesel engine (nigel charles) 2. 08:40 AM - Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (John & Paddy Wigney) 3. 09:56 AM - Re: Europa Owners in Central Florida (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 4. 10:07 AM - Re: RE Throttle Cables (Gilles Thesee) 5. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges (Rowland & Wilma Carson) 6. 11:44 AM - Re: RE Throttle Cables (Rob Housman) 7. 01:39 PM - Re: Gemini Diesel engine (Fred Klein) 8. 03:43 PM - Question for the group?? (Rick Stockton) 9. 04:10 PM - Re: Question for the group?? (Rick Stockton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:22 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Europa-List: Gemini Diesel engine This engine looks interesting especially as we may have a problem in the future using unleaded due to the increased level of ethanol in unleaded. Having read the links below I have a few comments to make. 1. A cruise power of 4.75gall/hr is not as impressive as I was hoping. Even if we are talking US gallons this equates to about 19litres/hr. The article quotes the Rotax 912 at 6.6gall/hr. This equates to 26.5litres/hr. The only time I see such a high fuel flow on my Rotax 912S is at full power. At cruise power I get 18litres/hr at 120kts. 2. They quote a 2000hrs TBO whereas the Rotax is stated to be 1200hrs. In the Europa we are running Rotax engines uncertified on condition. I think that it is highly likely that many will exceed 1200hrs by a considerable margin. When starting with a new engine, for many owners this will provide 20 years at average useage. 2. Jet-A and diesel is without doubt a better fuel for the future. However if there is not a significant benefit in fuel flow it must be remembered that it is denser than unleaded or Avgas. In a Europa this adds a weight penalty of about 12lbs for each tankful. We have yet to see a complete installed weight of the Gemini engine. I suspect that it will have a final weight penalty of at least 20lb over a Rotax. Remember that it will probably need a higher capacity battery. 3. Matching the engine to a prop might be an issue. In the past other engines have had torsional load problems which finally caused them to be impractical. 4. The Europa was designed around the Rotax. So far we have had at least 6 attempts to change to another engine. These include Subaru, Mid West rotary, Continental O-100, Wilksch, BMW and Jabiru. Only the Jabiru has succeeded to any meaningful degree. Let's hope the Gemini will prove to be different. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: 17 November 2007 17:18 Subject: Europa-List: Engine not selected yet? For any of you who have yet to deal with FWF issues, recent announcements concerning the Gemini 100/125 turbo diesel may be of interest. Two sources of information are: www.amtonline.com/publication/article.jsp?id=4434&pubId=1 http://dieselair.com/archives/2007_07_01_archive.html No response as yet to an enquiry to John at E04 as to whether the company might be considering supporting it for the Europa. Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:08 AM PST US From: John & Paddy Wigney Subject: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges Hi Michael, I hope your project is progressing well. I would like to offer another opinion on digital vs. analog. When I was designing my panel, I installed a 2 1/4" analog tachometer with the rpm range markings for the 912S. I also installed a Grand Rapids EIS 2004-W, see http://www.grtavionics.com/model_2004.htm, for my engine monitoring, fuel status and annunciator requirements. I assumed that the analog gauge would be my primary reference for engine speed. Before flying the plane I had been talking with Greg Toman, the Grand Rapids Pres., and mentioned my analog tacho. His comment was "Oh, you will never use that. You will always use the EIS." My reaction was that he was incorrect since I also thought that analog readings were easier and quicker to interpret. However, I found that as soon as I started flying the plane, I never looked at the analog gauge. The EIS digits refresh very quickly and are very accurate. When I build my next panel?, it will have an EIS and no analog tacho. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S, Whirlwind c/s prop Mooresville, North Carolina ORIGINAL MESSAGE From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges Martin, Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to process the numbers and compare them mentally. In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog and digital representation in one instrument. Example is at http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html . The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded. You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation industry if you look further. Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area. Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason why the digital representation in a car never took of. Regards Michael Grass A266 Trigear Detroit ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:52 AM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Owners in Central Florida Peter- Hope you got over to Miami OK. We heard that Aligator Alley was closed for several hours Sunday. That is always the problem with that piece of road. If there is a severe accident, it really fowls things up for a long time. I got up Sunday morning and looked out the window and the boat was gone. I panicked and called the cops, sure it had been stolen. About 15 minutes later, I saw it tied at the dock about 3 houses down on the west side of the canal. If you will remember, we came in 1/2 hour past low tide. I lifted the boat only high enough to get everything out and situate it in the lift. Apparently, at high tide it just drifted out. A neighbor saw it near the turn at the end of the canal and was able to jump from the dock at the end of the canal to the boat. He and his wife pulled it back to their dock and tied it. Now that I think about it, under maratime law, he could claim the boat. Really makes me feel stupid. I was also able to cut that lock off easily and have replaced them and have extra keys in the house. This is quite a learning experience, and I learn slowly. Glad noone was injured while we were out. Jim -------------- Original message -------------- From: "pjeffers@talktalk.net" > > > Hi John, My wife and i are in Englewood till the 17th November. We are > also without our Europa out here and share your frustrations of this last > flying season. Prhaps we cold make contact. > Our no out here is 914 697 3908. Or e mail > Pete and Sue > > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Jhleuropa@aol.com > Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:04:16 EDT > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Europa Owners in Central Florida > > > My name is John Lace, Europa Builder 311. > > My Europa Monowheel, G - OJHL has been flying since 1999 and now has 300+ > hours and is based at Prestwick in Scotland. 2007 has been a very > frustrating > year with Mod. 71 early in the year, followed by Mods. 73 and 74 in > August. I > also took the opportunity whilst dealing with Mod 74 to incorporate Mod > 52, > the max. weight upgrade. The net result has been very little flying this > year. > > Since retirement in 1995 my wife and I spend our winters in the Bradenton > area of west Central Florida and we will be there at the end of October > until > early March. I do some flying from a local airfield but only in spam cans. > > I have not flown the Europa since August and as a consequence, I am > suffering from serious withdrawal symptoms. Is there anyone out there with > a Europa > in the Central Florida area who is in need of a copilot or even just a > passenger on the odd occasion during the next 4 months? > > I can be contacted at this address, _jhleuropa@aol.com_ > (mailto:jhleuropa@aol.com) both here in Scotland and in Florida. Also, my > phone number in the US > is 941 723 3309. > > I will be extremely delighted to hear from anyone in the Europa fraternity > in the locality even if it is just to talk about the virtues of Europa's > and > the problems too for that matter. > > Heres hoping, John Lace. > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft Windows and Linux web and application > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting > > > > > > >
Peter-
 
Hope you got over to Miami OK.  We heard that Aligator Alley was closed for several hours Sunday.  That is always the problem with that piece of road.  If there is a severe accident, it really fowls things up for a long time. 
 
I got up Sunday morning and looked out the window and the boat was gone.  I panicked and called the cops, sure it had been stolen.  About 15 minutes later, I saw it tied at the dock about 3 houses down on the west side of the canal.  If you will remember, we came in 1/2 hour past low tide.  I lifted the boat only high enough to get everything out and situate it in the lift.  Apparently, at high tide it just drifted out.  A neighbor saw it near the turn at the end of the canal and was able to jump from the dock at the end of the canal to the boat.  He and his wife pulled it back to their dock and tied it.  Now that I think about it, under maratime law, he could claim the boat.  Really makes me feel stupid.  I was also able to cut that lock off easily and have replaced them and have extra keys in the house.  This is quite a learning experience, and I learn slowly.  Glad noone was injured while we were out.&nb sp;&nb sp;
 
Jim
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "pjeffers@talktalk.net" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>

> --> Europa-List message posted by: "pjeffers@talktalk.net"
>
>
> Hi John, My wife and i are in Englewood till the 17th November. We are
> also without our Europa out here and share your frustrations of this last
> flying season. Prhaps we cold make contact.
> Our no out here is 914 697 3908. Or e mail
> Pete and Sue
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Jhleuropa@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:04:16 EDT
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Europa Owners in Central Florida
>
>
> My name is John Lace, Europa Builder 311.
>
> My Europa Monowheel, G - OJHL has be en fly ing since 1999 and now has 300+
> hours and is based at Prestwick in Scotland. 2007 has been a very
> frustrating
> year with Mod. 71 early in the year, followed by Mods. 73 and 74 in
> August. I
> also took the opportunity whilst dealing with Mod 74 to incorporate Mod
> 52,
> the max. weight upgrade. The net result has been very little flying this
> year.
>
> Since retirement in 1995 my wife and I spend our winters in the Bradenton
> area of west Central Florida and we will be there at the end of October
> until
> early March. I do some flying from a local airfield but only in spam cans.
>
> I have not flown the Europa since August and as a consequence, I am
> suffering from serious withdrawal symptoms. Is there anyone out there with
> a Europa
> in the Central Florida area who is in need of a copilot or even just a
> passenger on the odd occas ion du Featur



________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:48 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE Throttle Cables Troy Maynor a crit : > And can you tell me where I can find this size wire? As long as it's music > wire, will it work? What is the metalurgic properties? Troy, I believe it is plain old piano wire. > Is it stainless? Do > you think .055" would work also? It will certainly depend on your outer case. But it will be better than a stranded cable with regard to buckling at throttle lever. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:43 AM PST US From: Rowland & Wilma Carson Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges At 18/11/07 21:25 +1000 craig bastin wrote: >most of the schools in >Australia >teach students to a C.L.E.A.R.O.F.F check every 15 minutes Craig - that's new acronym on me! I can make a guess at some of it, but would like to know the "authorised verion", please! regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 840 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:22 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE Throttle Cables Moments ago I took delivery of McMaster-Carr part number 9495K92, =93Type 302/304 stainless steel spring wire 0.059=94 diameter, =BC lb coli, 27=92 coil=94 at US$5.32 plus shipping. I=92ll post another note if I have any problem fitting the stuff but it should fit fine. (.059 inch = 1.5 mm) Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete _____________________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Troy Maynor Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Europa-List: RE Throttle Cables <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michel, Troy and all We are also using a 1.5 mm dia piano wire, along with many Rotax fellow fliers. Best regards, -- Gilles>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Gilles, And can you tell me where I can find this size wire? As long as it's music wire, will it work? What is the metalurgic properties? Is it stainless? Do you think .055" would work also? Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring. Weaverville, NC USA ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gemini Diesel engine From: Fred Klein On Monday, Nov 19, 2007, at 03:14 US/Pacific, nigel charles wrote: > > > This engine looks interesting especially as we may have a problem in > the > future using unleaded due to the increased level of ethanol in > unleaded. > > The article quotes the Rotax 912 at 6.6gall/hr. This equates to > 26.5litres/hr. The only time I see such a high fuel flow on my Rotax > 912S is at full power. At cruise power I get 18litres/hr at 120kts. Nigel, Thanks for clarifying fuel burn...I noticed that 6.6 gph and it seemed higher than what most Europas are using. > We have yet to see a complete installed weight of the Gemini engine. I > suspect that it > will have a final weight penalty of at least 20lb over a Rotax. What do you peg the installed weight of your 912S? > Matching the engine to a prop might be an issue. In the past other > engines have had torsional load problems which finally caused them to > be > impractical. One of the links I posted was to the DieselAir Newsletter which included the following comment: > DieselAir Comment: The Gemini is obviously a pursuit of the British > D-Air project: A scaled down Junkers Jumo diesel 2-stroke > Opposite-Piston engine, which has been flying for many years on a > Luscombe demonstrator. If this is so, I would think the "torsional load" issue has been addressed. Does anyone know anything about the "British D-Air project"? > The Europa was designed around the Rotax. So far we have had at least > 6 attempts to change to another engine. These include Subaru, Mid West > rotary, Continental O-100, Wilksch, BMW and Jabiru. Only the Jabiru has > succeeded to any meaningful degree. > Let's hope the Gemini will prove to be different. Amen to that! For anyone interested, here's another link for additional info, drawings, and dimensions (click on pdf files): www.ppdgemini.com Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:43 PM PST US From: Rick Stockton Subject: Europa-List: Question for the group?? I'm about to start cutting the Cockpit Module. It states, "Trim the cockpit module using the trim lines as guides... '' I have three different lines!! Which one do I use? Or does in make a difference? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:20 PM PST US From: Rick Stockton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Question for the group?? Forget it. I found the marks in the plastic. Boy, it sure was not clear what I was looking for. Rick Stockton wrote: I'm about to start cutting the Cockpit Module. It states, "Trim the cockpit module using the trim lines as guides... '' I have three different lines!! Which one do I use? 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