Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:58 AM - Re: Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not (josok)
2. 07:14 AM - Re: Prop Tach Sender (ALAN YERLY)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not ()
4. 10:07 AM - Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not (Remi Guerner)
5. 10:19 AM - DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11th (Paddy Clarke)
6. 11:25 AM - Re: Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not ()
7. 12:33 PM - Re: redux / araldite 420 for sale in OZ (Laptop JR)
8. 12:48 PM - Re: DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11th (Robert C Harrison)
9. 02:26 PM - secondary fuel pump (Fergus Kyle)
10. 02:56 PM - Re: DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11th (bryan allsop)
11. 03:41 PM - Re: secondary fuel pump ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not |
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the amount of explanation, you are correct: If And If brings you down.
No fuel left also.
However, i specifically mentioned
"any single component failure"
because there always seem to be people who manage to improve the scenario.
Did you forget to read that?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Tach Sender |
Ira,
Great investigative work as usual...
It must be the coriolis effect.
Westach has always been great about for their flexibility. A real
credit goes to them also.
I would have had them change the part number to 720-12IRA
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: rampil<mailto:ira.rampil@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Prop Tach Sender
<ira.rampil@gmail.com<mailto:ira.rampil@gmail.com>>
Greetings All,
A tech tidbit for the group.
I have been investigating why my prop tach sensor doesn't work and
finally discovered the solution, which I put forth for other who may
wind up in this boat.
I have an AirMaster prop and a Blue Mountain EFIS. So far there is no
way for the BMA to read the engine RPM signal (although that may
change soon). The AirMaster hub has a magnet embedded in it's contact
plate for its own internal RPM sensing. Since I could not expose the
electric RPM signal, I put my own Hall effect sensor on a bracket
mounted
to the Rotax gear box of my 912uls. The sensor I used is a Westach
720-12R.
This sensor never produced a pulse train signal for the Blue Mountain
to analyze.
I finally put a scope on the probe and discovered that indeed not
pulses
were generated by a spinning prop. (I really did not want my scope
that close to the spinning prop ;-) )
It turns out that the Hall Effect sensor uses a neat integrated sensor
chip which it turns out is sensitive only to a SINGLE magnetic
polarity.
By random chance, AirMaster uses the wrong one. (North vs South, etc).
The Westach pulses just fine when I swish a different magnet past it.
It turns out that Westach can build the probe with sensitivity to the
opposite magnet face. The part number is you need this new probe
is 720-12RAM. Same price as the original 720-12R probe.
Hope this solves someone else's mystery too!
Ira N224XS
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150815#150815<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150815#150815>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not |
Hi Jos
"any single component failure"
**Air leaking at valve #1 could be same as air into a Gasculator or filter
and shut you down
**Having Series with bypass, a single air leak at either of the
Gasculators or filter will shut you down, if you had parallel pumps with a
gasculator or filter on intake this is not the case
I like Series with bypass better than parallel pumps, the Europa series
with bypass like better than Rotax series with bypass because it uses a
second filter or in my case gasculator. True if you wanted to go crazy you
could add another 1 way between filters or gasculators and negate an air
leak at #2 Gasculator from interfering with #1 Gasculator, but not worth
the extra parts count.
I did read "any single component failure" and figured this is not an FAA
test where you must choose a letter for an absolute answer, but wanted to
make sure anyone using or considering series with bypass understands its
operation, not just "B" is the correct answer to question #2.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Message 4
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| Subject: | Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not |
"On my system if I pushed up on one of the beautiful Stainless Steel
Andair
bowl drains, just the tiniest bit, either pump #1, or #2 or both #1+#2
would far rather suck air than fuel"
Ron,
I have to disagree with that. If your fuel pumps are installed below
the bagage bay as instructed by Europa, they will always be below the
fuel level, unless your tank is almost empty. Therefore, unless there is
an obstruction at the tank output coarse filter, the pressure inside the
gascolator, upstream of the filter, will always be higher than the
ambiant pressure. So if your fuel drain leaks, it will not suck air but
will leak fuel to the outside.
Regards
Remi
Message 5
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| Subject: | DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11th |
Hi Folks,
It looks as though the weather is finally going to give us a break
tomorrow, so how about a DOTH?. I can't find anywhere pretty central
(short days) with a good cafe and hard R/W (grass might be a bit wet)
offering free landings, so I've settled on Halfpenny Green, where
landings cost =A310. Time 1200ish as usual,
Cheers, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Secondary Fuel Pump, correct or not |
Hi Remi
"If your fuel pumps are installed below the baggage bay as instructed by
Europa, they will always be below the fuel level, unless your tank is
almost empty."
My Fuel 914 pumps are mounted below baggage bay area. Lets raise the
Gasculators to the top of the cockpit for 1 minute. As long as no air is
in line and there are no air leaks, it is true if the fuel level is above
the inlet of the fuel pump it will be OK, but if you open the drain, air
will be pulled in and air not fuel will be sucked in easier than fuel. Now
lets move the Gasculator to where I have it, right on the floor of fuse
aft of the baggage bay ribs, you need fuel level above the outlet of the
Gasculators to not let a leak in the drain cause grief. Granted for most
part it will not be a problem, but you can pretty easily get level I feel
can be critical if you get an air leak, nose low during landing with low
fuel, running on main of tank and right hand pattern would put outlet of
Gasculator above fuel level.
I am not trying to scare anyone, just keep in mind that a leak in fuel
filter or Gasculator drain besides being a bad thing to leak fuel, could
cause problems with fuel delivery. I want to make light that the
Gasculator drain has more of a chance of leaking than a filter and that
although chances of actually having your engine play Silent Night because
of a air leak is low, none the less at least be aware that drain or drains
can introduce air, so if you see a leak at all, fix it.
The little Pierburg fuel pumps create quite a squirt. There is no question
that even if you had fuel level slightly above gasculator outlet (which is
at the same height as inlet) you will be putting entire feed upstream of
the inlet of the fuel pump at a slight negative pressure. I fooled with
placing pick up of fuel close to surface of fuel, and it creates a
whirlwind and sucks in air. I tried it with level a little above
Gasculators and below.
Try drinking through a straw that has a mini hole in it your favorite
beverage very fast with level of liquid slightly higher than your mouth.
Especially at full power, the Pierburg/s can just about provide the
pressure needed to crack Fuel Pressure regulator and just a little
reserve. If Wastegate gets stuck and you go over max boost, crack pressure
will not be reached and motor will quit, then less boost, fill carbs and
get power back until it quits again. Introduce not much air at full
throttle and I suspect crack pressure will not be met with a proper
functioning wastegate. Just this little tiny bit of air plays hell with
pumps ability, it cavitates and pressure goes way down.
Go ahead, lift up tail of your plane next time you need fuel and turn on
pump and open drain a little, then holding drain same amount opened have
someone turn off pump.
Please report your findings.
Ron P.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: redux / araldite 420 for sale in OZ |
K
Yes, I had not looked. It seems a pity that we don't have an Aussie
co-ordinator to collect the list etc -
But I am not volunteering!
Just unloading the Chapter 23 Secretary's job to Bob Phillips ex Wedderburn
NSW group.
JR
----- Original Message -----
From: "craig bastin" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 6:40 AM
Subject: Europa-List: redux / araldite 420 for sale in OZ
>
> I have decided to bite the bullet and buy a case (6 kits) of 420 so
> if anyone in OZ wants some let me know, price will be $265 a kit, its 1500
> for the case
> which is all anyone will sell me.
>
> regards
>
> craig
> 0411764396
>
>
> --
> 5/12/2007 8:41 AM
>
--
Message 8
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| Subject: | DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11th |
Sorry But Tuesdays are our =93L=94 days (Lovelia and Lexander we have a
baby sit commitment and some days it has an =93H=94 in front !)
Regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paddy
Clarke
Sent: 10 December 2007 17:51
Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11th
Hi Folks,
It looks as though the weather is finally going to give us a break
tomorrow, so how about a DOTH?. I can't find anywhere pretty central
(short days) with a good cafe and hard R/W (grass might be a bit wet)
offering free landings, so I've settled on Halfpenny Green, where
landings cost =A310. Time 1200ish as usual,
Cheers, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 9
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| Subject: | secondary fuel pump |
Ron,
I agree with you that if a pump fails, and its attendant bypass
valve sticks shut, then no fuel will emerge. Or if both pumps fail, no fuel
will emerge. Other than that perhaps my comprehension is low, but it seems
to me that a double failure has occurred - and the odds exceed those of
cardiac arrest.
Can we not start on one pump, and taxi on the other, to prove a safe
system to begin with? That would reduce the odds of a double failure if we
don't start out with one to begin with........ Where have I gone wrong?
Cheers,ferg
Message 10
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| Subject: | DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11th |
Think I'll have a pop for that.
Bryan
ist: DOTH Halfpenny Green ( Wolverhampton ) Tue 11thDate: Mon, 10 Dec 2007
17:50:59 +0000Hi Folks,
It looks as though the weather is finally going to give us a break tomorrow
, so how about a DOTH?. I can't find anywhere pretty central (short days) w
ith a good cafe and hard R/W (grass might be a bit wet) offering free landi
ngs, so I've settled on Halfpenny Green, where landings cost =A310. Time 12
00ish as usual,
Cheers, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: secondary fuel pump |
Hi Ferg
"Where have I gone wrong?"
Perhaps I should let someone else answer that ;-)
I agree that both pumps one at a time should be checked to verify that
system is working. If wired as per Europa Schematic, can't turn off pump
#1 (or last time I checked anyway). Best test with some pressure in
manifold to ensure that each pump can meet crack pressure of fuel pressure
regulator when engine is making some BTUs. Test of pumps at low power
setting does not prove much.
Ron P.
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