Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:35 AM - Re: Fuel Selector Valve (Brian Davies)
2. 02:39 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (David Joyce)
3. 02:46 AM - Re: Rotax 94 and the Dynon EMS-D10 (Ivor Phillips)
4. 05:12 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Garry)
5. 05:18 AM - Re: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into (Greg Fuchs (FB))
6. 05:28 AM - Re: Fuel Selector Valve (h&jeuropa)
7. 05:32 AM - Re: G-CHOX (Greg Fuchs (FB))
8. 06:41 AM - Re: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into (Kevin Klinefelter)
9. 06:41 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Karl Heindl)
10. 07:03 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Michel AUVRAY)
11. 10:38 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Karl Heindl)
12. 12:26 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Robert C Harrison)
13. 02:06 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
14. 03:48 PM - Re: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into (Greg Fuchs (FB))
15. 06:32 PM - Zinc Chromate and Corrosion X (Troy Maynor)
16. 07:27 PM - Re: auxiliary fuel tank (Martin Tuck)
17. 07:37 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (ALAN YERLY)
18. 10:25 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuel Selector Valve |
It's a long time since I looked in this area but I think it is a misprint
Rick.
Regards
Brian Davies kit 454
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton
Sent: 01 January 2008 18:41
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Selector Valve
In Chapter 17, Next to last paragraph it states use AN960-516 washer with
the W14 spacers. When I do this the washer falls over the spacers. I'm
thinking this is a misprint and should be AN960-416.
Are am I installing it incorrectly?
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
12:09
12:09
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: auxillary fuel tank |
Kevin, I have designed a composite 110 litre tank to sit in the passenger
seat and to use the existing straps as constraint. It probably doesn't
answer your needs but if so I would be happy to give you more detail. In
this country there are problems with the Europa Long Ranger tank, which I
understand has never got PFA approval. To count as an auxiliary tank (as
opposed to a ferry tank - which introduces its own restrictions) it needs to
pass CSA-VLA regs, which state among other things:
1) the tank must cope with 24kPa (3.481psi) overpressure, that is to say a
tad over 500lbs per sq ft!
2) The restraints must withstand a 9g forward and 3g upward acceleration
loads.
3) The tank filler must be located outside the personnel compartment (on my
design achieved by having a plug in filler funnel with a dog leg so that the
actual filler orifice is outside)
4) Connections must be such that no fuel pump can draw fuel from more than
one tank at a time.
My tank has not yet passed PFA/LAA approval although Andy Draper has
made encouraging noises.
Of course on your side of the pond you can probably ignore such
restrictions, but a loose fuel tank must be one of the least desirable
extras with a nasty landing!
Happy New Year, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gotsky.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:07 AM
Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
>
> Hi All,
>
> Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I
> am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank
> that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the
> Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not
> install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main
> side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing
> something like that?
>
> I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with
> the dollar so low.
> Anybody got one they want to let go?
>
> I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it
> would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep
> going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200
> mph TAS.
>
> Kevin
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Rotax 94 and the Dynon EMS-D10 |
Hi Ferg
It's a fairly standard MAP sensor originally from General Motors
http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/mapsensor.htm
I fitted mine on the inside of the firewall with two MS21047-L06 nuts
and suitable small dome headed screws,
The weather pack are the circular connectors you use to wire the unit
with,
Regards
Ivor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Sent: 02 January 2008 02:08
Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 94 and the Dynon EMS-D10
Cheers for 2008-01-01
I am attempting to install the above on the above, and having
difficulty discovering the skills needed. If you are doing the same -
and I
presume are miles ahead of me, would you please take a minute to set me
right? (Maybe two).
I have in my shaking hand a black semi-rectangular device which
the
instructions claim is a manifold air pressure sensor. It is on page 3-5,
figure 1. If this is a European sensor it will probably mount with
metric
hardware, but at the moment the mounting holes are a tad under 1/4" or
say
6mm. BUT there is no room for a bolthead or matching nut, nor are there
any
instructions to accomplish same. Nor is there any description of the
mounting method (bolts, straps, cradle....?)
An attempt at education followed the hint that this umarked
device
was 'from'
Weatherpack.com. This URL devoted itself entirely to connectors, and the
sensor remained a mystery unit. Application to Dynon extensive if
confusing
website gave no hint. Nor is there any way to email them for answers. I
hate
to telephone but I guess the spoken word is king.
Until I can unravel the strange nomenclature and in-house
wording, I
would suggest serious research before taking these steps.
Happy landings
Ferg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: auxillary fuel tank |
Good luck on that "200 mph cruise speed" Kevin. I've heard the odd story of
that kind of speed from time to time, and even willing to put down a bet
against it. So far, no takers.
Garry Stout
914 Tri, Tampa Florida
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gotsky.com>
>
> I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it would
> seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep going on
> long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200 mph TAS.
>
> Kevin
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into |
First of all, thanks for all the comments so far.
I just measured the distance between the two top outboard edges of the
cockpit bellcrank bracket, and compared that with the bottom two. If they
were parallel, I would expect the values to be close. (unless it was a
parallelogram, but then only one side would be affected this way, with
respect to the lower bracket, and this is not the case) The distances came
in at just over 42 1/4" for the top, and just shy of 42 3/8" for the bottom.
Thus they are off only by 1/8" tops. The bottom dimension is the longer
dimension, and the bottom side of the bracket(bellcrank end) is the side
that hits up against the fuselage, not the top side that I said earlier.
Since test fitting into the actual boat shell was SO close to working, I
ground 1/8" from just the corner of the 3mm plywood and metal. This needed
to be done on both sides, since they were both touching. This will have
negligible effect on the strength of the bracket, which will be
bond-strengthened later, and am satisfied that everything clears now, and
can move on without worry.
What this tells me:
At least with MY cockpit module, had I gotten both brackets perfectly
vertical and square with each other (the manual just says to visually align
them), I feel there could still be a slight push on one or both of the
brackets by the fuselage shell when bonding the cockpit module in, and it
may also depend on rivet location when bonding, or the squeezing applied by
the fuselage holder, etc. We are talking 1/8" or less here, so it is not
much. I am pretty convinced now that if the problem exists in other modules,
and not caught, many others may have had a small bellcrank alignment issue
after bonding due to this reason. It would have a tendency to separate the
bellcranks from mating, by only a small extra amount. If the distance
between the top brackets (with respect to the aircraft) was the longer
dimension by 1/8", this problem would probably go away. Any more than that,
might start to make the top part of the bracket touch.
Regards,
Greg Fuchs (A050)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector Valve |
Rick,
It is a misprint. Our older manual calls for AN960-416 washers next to the fiberglass.
In the old manual they also call for two AN960-516 washers over the
spindle of the valve. That is how ours is done.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155516#155516
Message 7
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Jeff,
Ya, Ya, Rub it in :-)
Thanks definitely for a glimpse of the future. aahhHHHH YEEAAaahh.
This message brought to you from a ground-bound builder, of course!
Cheers and have fun,
Greg
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rman
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: G-CHOX
Paul and all,
Just back from that awful weather, in Florida. Temps in the upper 70's to
lower 80's. Fog burned off by 8am and sunny days. I tell you, it was hell!
Hell, I say!
Kidding, of course. Sorry you're experiencing such unpleasant weather, my
friend. Better days are ahead, though. I know you'll have PJ back in the
air in no time.
Short flight report: Baby Blue underwent a cable change at last oil change.
Yep, I bit the bullet and changed out the throttle cables to solids. Kept
the original housings and slipped in the McMaster-Karr piano wire. While I
was at it, I changed both throttle springs. After syncing the carbs, the
results were that Baby Blue has never run so smoothly, when going through
different power settings. Used to get vibrations at different settings,
but, no more. And that annoying "out of sync" rough running is gone...
Over all, she performed like the champion she is for the 5 hour flight, each
way. Cruise hovered around 132 kts and, with the luck of a good tailwind
saw 145 to 152 over the ground at times. Did I ever mention that I really
love this little bird? :) Oh, and golf, Disney World and the three gun
match were all superb...!
Jeff - Baby Blue
360 hrs
Paul McAllister wrote:
<mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com> <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
Jeff,
Please send some of that weather my way. Its below freezing here and I
haven't been able to get N378PJ out all month.
Paul
On Dec 24, 2007 9:51 PM, Rman <mailto:topglock@cox.net> <topglock@cox.net>
wrote:
Jim,
Mary and I will be sucking up some of that great weather, Dec. 26-30.
We'll be flying into Winter Haven KGIF...
Jeff - Baby Blue
350 hours
jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote:
Alan-
Florida, where it is 74 degrees F Christmas Eve!
Jim Puglise, Punta Gorda, FL
gt; _- >>
href= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
href= <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Europa-List
href= <http://forums.matronics.com>
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into |
Sounds like you have it figured out. The brackets on mine came out very
similar to yours, as I recall. I called the factory and they said just
file off the corners so they do not touch the canoe.
Kevin
Greg Fuchs (FB) wrote:
>
> First of all, thanks for all the comments so far.
>
> I just measured the distance between the two top outboard edges of the
> cockpit bellcrank bracket, and compared that with the bottom two. If they
> were parallel, I would expect the values to be close. (unless it was a
> parallelogram, but then only one side would be affected this way, with
> respect to the lower bracket, and this is not the case) The distances came
> in at just over 42 1/4" for the top, and just shy of 42 3/8" for the bottom.
> Thus they are off only by 1/8" tops. The bottom dimension is the longer
> dimension, and the bottom side of the bracket(bellcrank end) is the side
> that hits up against the fuselage, not the top side that I said earlier.
> Since test fitting into the actual boat shell was SO close to working, I
> ground 1/8" from just the corner of the 3mm plywood and metal. This needed
> to be done on both sides, since they were both touching. This will have
> negligible effect on the strength of the bracket, which will be
> bond-strengthened later, and am satisfied that everything clears now, and
> can move on without worry.
>
> What this tells me:
>
> At least with MY cockpit module, had I gotten both brackets perfectly
> vertical and square with each other (the manual just says to visually align
> them), I feel there could still be a slight push on one or both of the
> brackets by the fuselage shell when bonding the cockpit module in, and it
> may also depend on rivet location when bonding, or the squeezing applied by
> the fuselage holder, etc. We are talking 1/8" or less here, so it is not
> much. I am pretty convinced now that if the problem exists in other modules,
> and not caught, many others may have had a small bellcrank alignment issue
> after bonding due to this reason. It would have a tendency to separate the
> bellcranks from mating, by only a small extra amount. If the distance
> between the top brackets (with respect to the aircraft) was the longer
> dimension by 1/8", this problem would probably go away. Any more than that,
> might start to make the top part of the bracket touch.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Fuchs (A050)
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | auxillary fuel tank |
Kevin,
I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly strapp
ed into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front wall of
the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and easily plumbed
in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive fuel pump is also
plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more tanks could also go int
o the baggage area, so long as they are secure. If of real interest, I can
look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on his
flight across the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank
I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia.
Karl
<html><div></div>> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800> From: kevan
n@gotsky.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Europa-List: auxillar
@gotsky.com>> > Hi All,> > Has anyone out there put together their own axil
lary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, probably a commercially av
ailable plastic tank > that could be strapped into the baggage area of an X
S mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I
elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in the
re, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one
doing > something like that?> > I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost
is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low.> Anybody got one they want
to let go?> > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 gr
and it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to ke
ep > going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 2
============> > >
Message 10
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| Subject: | auxillary fuel tank |
Hi Karl,
What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or metallic?
How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank?
Thanks
Michel
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl Heindl
Envoy : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Kevin,
I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly
strapped into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front
wall of the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and easily
plumbed in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive fuel pump
is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more tanks could also
go into the baggage area, so long as they are secure. If of real interest, I
can look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on
his flight across the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank
I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia.
Karl
<html><div></div>
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800
> From: kevann@gotsky.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I
> am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank
> that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the
> Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not
> install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main
> side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing
> something like that?
>
> I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with
> the dollar so low.
> Anybody got one they want to let go?
>
> I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it
> would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep
> going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200
> =================
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | auxillary fuel tank |
Michel,
The tanks are high strength blow molded construction using molecular weight
(whatever that means) polyethylene, colour is
red.
Size is 25 liter, measuring 48 x 32 x 28 cm.
According to my notes it is on website www.mercurypartsexpress.com . It is
made in Canada, but I bought my first one in the UK, where it is half the p
rice of the Canadian price. They (Mercury Marine) have a dealer locator lin
k. I think I paid
30 pounds including tax, in Canada it is 100 dollars. The fuel connector is
part number 22-816856T3. You also need their
fuel hose with the quickfit connections.
Karl
<html><div></div>
From: mau11@free.frTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Europa-List: a
uxillary fuel tankDate: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:00:25 +0100
Hi Karl,
What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or metallic?
How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank?
Thanks
Michel
-----Message d'origine-----De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mai
lto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl HeindlEnvoy
=E9 : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40=C0 : europa-list@matronics.comObjet : R
E: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Kevin, I have been using a portable 25
liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly strapped into the passenger seat (I ad
ded an eyebolt at the bottom front wall of the seat for an extra strap), wi
th quickfit connectors, and easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (alumi
num elbow). An automotive fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of
course, one or more tanks could also go into the baggage area, so long as t
hey are secure. If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Sche
rer probably used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also
Eric Trombley has a marine tankI think David Joyce is preparing for his fli
ght to Australia. Karl<html><div></div>> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07
:55 -0800> From: kevann@gotsky.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject:
in Klinefelter <kevann@gotsky.com>> > Hi All,> > Has anyone out there put t
ogether their own axillary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, prob
ably a commercially available plastic tank > that could be strapped into th
e baggage area of an XS mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with
vacant taps because I elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am consi
dering plumbing in there, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Euro
pa design does.Any one doing > something like that?> > I would buy a Europa
aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low.> Anyb
ody got one they want to let go?> > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 c
ruising at 16 to 18 grand it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiti
ng? It'd be nice to keep > going on long XC flights once you are way up the
re cruising along at 200 > ================
==> > >
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | auxillary fuel tank |
Hi! Michel/Karl/ Dr David Joyce and all,
At the expense of being a =93kill joy=94 with regards to =93Red Marine
auxiliary tanks=94 =85=85. I believe the guys who were killed doing a
180deg
from 300ft take off near San Francisco in a Europa were using just that
kind of tank. Don=92t know if there was any conclusions made as to the
accident cause or if there was any likely connection but the aircraft
pranged into rough grass on the airfield perimeter, the pictures I saw
were two body bags and nothing above about 9=94 high was left of the
whole
plane.
I have a 9 imp gallon aluminium tank strapped behind the main tank
bulkhead which siphons using the Europa style squeeze ball into the main
tank. It fills simultaneously with the main tank filler but can be
switched off if not required to be filled. It can also be siphoned empty
when on the ground.
=93Of course there are some who would say I only needed it due to the
Jabiru 3300 gas guzzler!=94
I did satisfy the PFA loading requirements although the actual testing
took lots of multiple rope pulleys and a spring balance with mechanical
advantage calculations to verify the loads.
Ivor Phillips can bear witness to a pitfall where the siphon
discontinued and about 2 hours later about 30 minutes out of Vitoria
(Spain), due to a double wingover maneuver on a photo shoot whilst
leaving Majorca, we had a few moments of glorious silence! He had to do
an about turn in his seat and do some rapid hand ball squeezing to
ensure enough fuel to make destination.
The moral to the story is when flying solo with such arrangements ensure
the squeeze ball is within reach of the P1 !
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: 02 January 2008 18:36
Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Michel,
The tanks are high strength blow molded construction using molecular
weight (whatever that means) polyethylene, colour is
red.
Size is 25 liter, measuring 48 x 32 x 28 cm.
According to my notes it is on website www.mercurypartsexpress.com . It
is made in Canada, but I bought my first one in
the UK, where it is half the price of the Canadian price. They (Mercury
Marine) have a dealer locator link. I think I paid
30 pounds including tax, in Canada it is 100 dollars. The fuel connector
is part number 22-816856T3. You also need their
fuel hose with the quickfit connections.
Karl
<html><div></div>
_____
From: mau11@free.fr
Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Hi Karl,
What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or
metallic? How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank?
Thanks
Michel
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl Heindl
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40
=C0 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Kevin,
I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly
strapped into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front
wall of the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and
easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive
fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more
tanks could also go into the baggage area, so long as they are secure.
If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably
used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also Eric
Trombley has a marine tank
I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia.
Karl
<html><div></div>
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800
> From: kevann@gotsky.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
>
<kevann@gotsky.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design?
I
> am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank
> that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the
> Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not
> install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the
Main
> side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing
> something like that?
>
> I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with
> the dollar so low.
> Anybody got one they want to let go?
>
> I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it
> would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep
> going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at
200
> =================
>
>
>
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: auxillary fuel tank |
David,
As I understand it, it was point 3 that prevented PFA approval of the Europa
Long Ranger tank in the UK; strange as many other a/c in the PFA fleet have
similar arrangements. Hope you can convince the PFA that the plug-in filler
funnel will not be ditched at the first opportunity!
Rgds.,
Duncan McF
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Kevin, I have designed a composite 110 litre tank to sit in the passenger
> seat and to use the existing straps as constraint. It probably doesn't
> answer your needs but if so I would be happy to give you more detail. In
> this country there are problems with the Europa Long Ranger tank, which I
> understand has never got PFA approval. To count as an auxiliary tank (as
> opposed to a ferry tank - which introduces its own restrictions) it needs
> to
> pass CSA-VLA regs, which state among other things:
> 1) the tank must cope with 24kPa (3.481psi) overpressure, that is to say a
> tad over 500lbs per sq ft!
> 2) The restraints must withstand a 9g forward and 3g upward acceleration
> loads.
> 3) The tank filler must be located outside the personnel compartment (on
> my
> design achieved by having a plug in filler funnel with a dog leg so that
> the
> actual filler orifice is outside)
> 4) Connections must be such that no fuel pump can draw fuel from more than
> one tank at a time.
> My tank has not yet passed PFA/LAA approval although Andy Draper
> has
> made encouraging noises.
> Of course on your side of the pond you can probably ignore such
> restrictions, but a loose fuel tank must be one of the least desirable
> extras with a nasty landing!
> Happy New Year, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gotsky.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:07 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
>
>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I
>> am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank
>> that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the
>> Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not
>> install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main
>> side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing
>> something like that?
>>
>> I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with
>> the dollar so low.
>> Anybody got one they want to let go?
>>
>> I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it
>> would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep
>> going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200
>> mph TAS.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into |
Thanks Kevin,
It is good to hear of a few others seeing this too.
It looks like I chose a familiar fix-it route, thanks for the confirmation.
Regards,
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Klinefelter
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into
Sounds like you have it figured out. The brackets on mine came out very
similar to yours, as I recall. I called the factory and they said just
file off the corners so they do not touch the canoe.
Kevin
Greg Fuchs (FB) wrote:
<gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
>
> First of all, thanks for all the comments so far.
>
> I just measured the distance between the two top outboard edges of the
> cockpit bellcrank bracket, and compared that with the bottom two. If they
> were parallel, I would expect the values to be close. (unless it was a
> parallelogram, but then only one side would be affected this way, with
> respect to the lower bracket, and this is not the case) The distances came
> in at just over 42 1/4" for the top, and just shy of 42 3/8" for the
bottom.
> Thus they are off only by 1/8" tops. The bottom dimension is the longer
> dimension, and the bottom side of the bracket(bellcrank end) is the side
> that hits up against the fuselage, not the top side that I said earlier.
> Since test fitting into the actual boat shell was SO close to working, I
> ground 1/8" from just the corner of the 3mm plywood and metal. This needed
> to be done on both sides, since they were both touching. This will have
> negligible effect on the strength of the bracket, which will be
> bond-strengthened later, and am satisfied that everything clears now, and
> can move on without worry.
>
> What this tells me:
>
> At least with MY cockpit module, had I gotten both brackets perfectly
> vertical and square with each other (the manual just says to visually
align
> them), I feel there could still be a slight push on one or both of the
> brackets by the fuselage shell when bonding the cockpit module in, and it
> may also depend on rivet location when bonding, or the squeezing applied
by
> the fuselage holder, etc. We are talking 1/8" or less here, so it is not
> much. I am pretty convinced now that if the problem exists in other
modules,
> and not caught, many others may have had a small bellcrank alignment issue
> after bonding due to this reason. It would have a tendency to separate the
> bellcranks from mating, by only a small extra amount. If the distance
> between the top brackets (with respect to the aircraft) was the longer
> dimension by 1/8", this problem would probably go away. Any more than
that,
> might start to make the top part of the bracket touch.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Fuchs (A050)
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Zinc Chromate and Corrosion X |
Hi All,
I was wondering if using Tempo zinc chromate instead of etching primer to do
the mod 72 would be ok. I could not find a conclusive answer in the archive.
Also,I have Corrosion X in the place of ACF 50. I read somewhere it was
equally good to use and I already have a can of it and the zinc chromate.
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: auxiliary fuel tank |
Hi Kevin,
I have a Europa supplied Auxiliary (Long Range) tank which I have
plumbed in but have never used - and probably never will.
I don't know what a new one costs these days. How much would you offer
me for it?
Where are you located, I assume here in the US?
If anyone else is interested let me know.
Regards,
Martin Tuck
Europa N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: auxillary fuel tank |
Bob, great "there I was" story.
I too am very concerned about blow molded plastic tanks for use in an
aircraft. I can't jump overboard and get in the water fast as I can in
a boat. I would prefer a properly secured, 9 G, spun molded tank used
for racing (similar to the Europa tank construction), a coated
fiberglass tank or a proper aluminum tank if were my plane. Yes it's
expensive, and as Bob states, time consuming to build and mount, but
worth it.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert C Harrison<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Hi! Michel/Karl/ Dr David Joyce and all,
At the expense of being a "kill joy" with regards to "Red Marine
auxiliary tanks" ... I believe the guys who were killed doing a 180deg
from 300ft take off near San Francisco in a Europa were using just that
kind of tank. Don't know if there was any conclusions made as to the
accident cause or if there was any likely connection but the aircraft
pranged into rough grass on the airfield perimeter, the pictures I saw
were two body bags and nothing above about 9" high was left of the whole
plane.
I have a 9 imp gallon aluminium tank strapped behind the main tank
bulkhead which siphons using the Europa style squeeze ball into the main
tank. It fills simultaneously with the main tank filler but can be
switched off if not required to be filled. It can also be siphoned empty
when on the ground.
"Of course there are some who would say I only needed it due to the
Jabiru 3300 gas guzzler!"
I did satisfy the PFA loading requirements although the actual testing
took lots of multiple rope pulleys and a spring balance with mechanical
advantage calculations to verify the loads.
Ivor Phillips can bear witness to a pitfall where the siphon
discontinued and about 2 hours later about 30 minutes out of Vitoria
(Spain), due to a double wingover maneuver on a photo shoot whilst
leaving Majorca, we had a few moments of glorious silence! He had to do
an about turn in his seat and do some rapid hand ball squeezing to
ensure enough fuel to make destination.
The moral to the story is when flying solo with such arrangements
ensure the squeeze ball is within reach of the P1 !
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: 02 January 2008 18:36
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Michel,
The tanks are high strength blow molded construction using molecular
weight (whatever that means) polyethylene, colour is
red.
Size is 25 liter, measuring 48 x 32 x 28 cm.
According to my notes it is on website
www.mercurypartsexpress.com<http://www.mercurypartsexpress.com/> . It is
made in Canada, but I bought my first one in
the UK, where it is half the price of the Canadian price. They
(Mercury Marine) have a dealer locator link. I think I paid
30 pounds including tax, in Canada it is 100 dollars. The fuel
connector is part number 22-816856T3. You also need their
fuel hose with the quickfit connections.
Karl
<html><div></div>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: mau11@free.fr
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:00:25 +0100
Hi Karl,
What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or
metallic? How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank?
Thanks
Michel
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl Heindl
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40
=C0 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
Kevin,
I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly
strapped into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front
wall of the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and
easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive
fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more
tanks could also go into the baggage area, so long as they are secure.
If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably
used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also Eric
Trombley has a marine tank
I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia.
Karl
<html><div></div>
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800
> From: kevann@gotsky.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank
>
<kevann@gotsky.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank
design? I
> am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic
tank
> that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have
the
> Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to
not
> install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to
the Main
> side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing
> something like that?
>
> I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy,
with
> the dollar so low.
> Anybody got one they want to let go?
>
> I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand
it
> would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to
keep
> going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along
at 200
> =================
>
>
>
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: auxillary fuel tank |
On Wednesday, Jan 2, 2008, at 06:40 US/Pacific, Karl Heindl wrote:
> Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on his flight across
> the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank. I think David Joyce
> is preparing for his flight to Australia.
I recall seeing what appeared to be several standard Europa long ranger
tanks in a photo on Thomas's website, though it might have been his
setup for crossing the Atlantic rather than the Pacific (where he may
have done something differently).
In any event, for myself, I am very leery of jerry-rigging marine tanks
for our sweet little bird due to questionable crashworthiness,
particularly in the aftermath of the crash at Livermore,
notwithstanding my propensity to propose and execute various mods which
suit my fancy but allow me to remain in my personal comfort zone.
Fred (still in the armchair, i.e., not flying)
A194
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