---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/02/08: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:35 AM - Re: Fuel Selector Valve (Brian Davies) 2. 02:39 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (David Joyce) 3. 02:46 AM - Re: Rotax 94 and the Dynon EMS-D10 (Ivor Phillips) 4. 05:12 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Garry) 5. 05:18 AM - Re: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into (Greg Fuchs (FB)) 6. 05:28 AM - Re: Fuel Selector Valve (h&jeuropa) 7. 05:32 AM - Re: G-CHOX (Greg Fuchs (FB)) 8. 06:41 AM - Re: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into (Kevin Klinefelter) 9. 06:41 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Karl Heindl) 10. 07:03 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Michel AUVRAY) 11. 10:38 AM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Karl Heindl) 12. 12:26 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Robert C Harrison) 13. 02:06 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 14. 03:48 PM - Re: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into (Greg Fuchs (FB)) 15. 06:32 PM - Zinc Chromate and Corrosion X (Troy Maynor) 16. 07:27 PM - Re: auxiliary fuel tank (Martin Tuck) 17. 07:37 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (ALAN YERLY) 18. 10:25 PM - Re: auxillary fuel tank (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:21 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Selector Valve It's a long time since I looked in this area but I think it is a misprint Rick. Regards Brian Davies kit 454 _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: 01 January 2008 18:41 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Selector Valve In Chapter 17, Next to last paragraph it states use AN960-516 washer with the W14 spacers. When I do this the washer falls over the spacers. I'm thinking this is a misprint and should be AN960-416. Are am I installing it incorrectly? "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Europa-List 12:09 12:09 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:08 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Kevin, I have designed a composite 110 litre tank to sit in the passenger seat and to use the existing straps as constraint. It probably doesn't answer your needs but if so I would be happy to give you more detail. In this country there are problems with the Europa Long Ranger tank, which I understand has never got PFA approval. To count as an auxiliary tank (as opposed to a ferry tank - which introduces its own restrictions) it needs to pass CSA-VLA regs, which state among other things: 1) the tank must cope with 24kPa (3.481psi) overpressure, that is to say a tad over 500lbs per sq ft! 2) The restraints must withstand a 9g forward and 3g upward acceleration loads. 3) The tank filler must be located outside the personnel compartment (on my design achieved by having a plug in filler funnel with a dog leg so that the actual filler orifice is outside) 4) Connections must be such that no fuel pump can draw fuel from more than one tank at a time. My tank has not yet passed PFA/LAA approval although Andy Draper has made encouraging noises. Of course on your side of the pond you can probably ignore such restrictions, but a loose fuel tank must be one of the least desirable extras with a nasty landing! Happy New Year, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:07 AM Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank > > Hi All, > > Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank > that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing > something like that? > > I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low. > Anybody got one they want to let go? > > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep > going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200 > mph TAS. > > Kevin > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:58 AM PST US From: "Ivor Phillips" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 94 and the Dynon EMS-D10 Hi Ferg It's a fairly standard MAP sensor originally from General Motors http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/mapsensor.htm I fitted mine on the inside of the firewall with two MS21047-L06 nuts and suitable small dome headed screws, The weather pack are the circular connectors you use to wire the unit with, Regards Ivor -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: 02 January 2008 02:08 Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 94 and the Dynon EMS-D10 Cheers for 2008-01-01 I am attempting to install the above on the above, and having difficulty discovering the skills needed. If you are doing the same - and I presume are miles ahead of me, would you please take a minute to set me right? (Maybe two). I have in my shaking hand a black semi-rectangular device which the instructions claim is a manifold air pressure sensor. It is on page 3-5, figure 1. If this is a European sensor it will probably mount with metric hardware, but at the moment the mounting holes are a tad under 1/4" or say 6mm. BUT there is no room for a bolthead or matching nut, nor are there any instructions to accomplish same. Nor is there any description of the mounting method (bolts, straps, cradle....?) An attempt at education followed the hint that this umarked device was 'from' Weatherpack.com. This URL devoted itself entirely to connectors, and the sensor remained a mystery unit. Application to Dynon extensive if confusing website gave no hint. Nor is there any way to email them for answers. I hate to telephone but I guess the spoken word is king. Until I can unravel the strange nomenclature and in-house wording, I would suggest serious research before taking these steps. Happy landings Ferg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:33 AM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Good luck on that "200 mph cruise speed" Kevin. I've heard the odd story of that kind of speed from time to time, and even willing to put down a bet against it. So far, no takers. Garry Stout 914 Tri, Tampa Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" > > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it would > seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep going on > long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200 mph TAS. > > Kevin > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:30 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs (FB)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into First of all, thanks for all the comments so far. I just measured the distance between the two top outboard edges of the cockpit bellcrank bracket, and compared that with the bottom two. If they were parallel, I would expect the values to be close. (unless it was a parallelogram, but then only one side would be affected this way, with respect to the lower bracket, and this is not the case) The distances came in at just over 42 1/4" for the top, and just shy of 42 3/8" for the bottom. Thus they are off only by 1/8" tops. The bottom dimension is the longer dimension, and the bottom side of the bracket(bellcrank end) is the side that hits up against the fuselage, not the top side that I said earlier. Since test fitting into the actual boat shell was SO close to working, I ground 1/8" from just the corner of the 3mm plywood and metal. This needed to be done on both sides, since they were both touching. This will have negligible effect on the strength of the bracket, which will be bond-strengthened later, and am satisfied that everything clears now, and can move on without worry. What this tells me: At least with MY cockpit module, had I gotten both brackets perfectly vertical and square with each other (the manual just says to visually align them), I feel there could still be a slight push on one or both of the brackets by the fuselage shell when bonding the cockpit module in, and it may also depend on rivet location when bonding, or the squeezing applied by the fuselage holder, etc. We are talking 1/8" or less here, so it is not much. I am pretty convinced now that if the problem exists in other modules, and not caught, many others may have had a small bellcrank alignment issue after bonding due to this reason. It would have a tendency to separate the bellcranks from mating, by only a small extra amount. If the distance between the top brackets (with respect to the aircraft) was the longer dimension by 1/8", this problem would probably go away. Any more than that, might start to make the top part of the bracket touch. Regards, Greg Fuchs (A050) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Selector Valve From: "h&jeuropa" Rick, It is a misprint. Our older manual calls for AN960-416 washers next to the fiberglass. In the old manual they also call for two AN960-516 washers over the spindle of the valve. That is how ours is done. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155516#155516 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:08 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs (FB)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: G-CHOX Jeff, Ya, Ya, Rub it in :-) Thanks definitely for a glimpse of the future. aahhHHHH YEEAAaahh. This message brought to you from a ground-bound builder, of course! Cheers and have fun, Greg Do not archive _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rman Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: G-CHOX Paul and all, Just back from that awful weather, in Florida. Temps in the upper 70's to lower 80's. Fog burned off by 8am and sunny days. I tell you, it was hell! Hell, I say! Kidding, of course. Sorry you're experiencing such unpleasant weather, my friend. Better days are ahead, though. I know you'll have PJ back in the air in no time. Short flight report: Baby Blue underwent a cable change at last oil change. Yep, I bit the bullet and changed out the throttle cables to solids. Kept the original housings and slipped in the McMaster-Karr piano wire. While I was at it, I changed both throttle springs. After syncing the carbs, the results were that Baby Blue has never run so smoothly, when going through different power settings. Used to get vibrations at different settings, but, no more. And that annoying "out of sync" rough running is gone... Over all, she performed like the champion she is for the 5 hour flight, each way. Cruise hovered around 132 kts and, with the luck of a good tailwind saw 145 to 152 over the ground at times. Did I ever mention that I really love this little bird? :) Oh, and golf, Disney World and the three gun match were all superb...! Jeff - Baby Blue 360 hrs Paul McAllister wrote: Jeff, Please send some of that weather my way. Its below freezing here and I haven't been able to get N378PJ out all month. Paul On Dec 24, 2007 9:51 PM, Rman wrote: Jim, Mary and I will be sucking up some of that great weather, Dec. 26-30. We'll be flying into Winter Haven KGIF... Jeff - Baby Blue 350 hours jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: Alan- Florida, where it is 74 degrees F Christmas Eve! Jim Puglise, Punta Gorda, FL gt; _- >> href= "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n href= "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Europa-List href= "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:14 AM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into Sounds like you have it figured out. The brackets on mine came out very similar to yours, as I recall. I called the factory and they said just file off the corners so they do not touch the canoe. Kevin Greg Fuchs (FB) wrote: > > First of all, thanks for all the comments so far. > > I just measured the distance between the two top outboard edges of the > cockpit bellcrank bracket, and compared that with the bottom two. If they > were parallel, I would expect the values to be close. (unless it was a > parallelogram, but then only one side would be affected this way, with > respect to the lower bracket, and this is not the case) The distances came > in at just over 42 1/4" for the top, and just shy of 42 3/8" for the bottom. > Thus they are off only by 1/8" tops. The bottom dimension is the longer > dimension, and the bottom side of the bracket(bellcrank end) is the side > that hits up against the fuselage, not the top side that I said earlier. > Since test fitting into the actual boat shell was SO close to working, I > ground 1/8" from just the corner of the 3mm plywood and metal. This needed > to be done on both sides, since they were both touching. This will have > negligible effect on the strength of the bracket, which will be > bond-strengthened later, and am satisfied that everything clears now, and > can move on without worry. > > What this tells me: > > At least with MY cockpit module, had I gotten both brackets perfectly > vertical and square with each other (the manual just says to visually align > them), I feel there could still be a slight push on one or both of the > brackets by the fuselage shell when bonding the cockpit module in, and it > may also depend on rivet location when bonding, or the squeezing applied by > the fuselage holder, etc. We are talking 1/8" or less here, so it is not > much. I am pretty convinced now that if the problem exists in other modules, > and not caught, many others may have had a small bellcrank alignment issue > after bonding due to this reason. It would have a tendency to separate the > bellcranks from mating, by only a small extra amount. If the distance > between the top brackets (with respect to the aircraft) was the longer > dimension by 1/8", this problem would probably go away. Any more than that, > might start to make the top part of the bracket touch. > > Regards, > Greg Fuchs (A050) > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:15 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Kevin, I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly strapp ed into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front wall of the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more tanks could also go int o the baggage area, so long as they are secure. If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia. Karl
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800> From: kevan n@gotsky.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Europa-List: auxillar @gotsky.com>> > Hi All,> > Has anyone out there put together their own axil lary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, probably a commercially av ailable plastic tank > that could be strapped into the baggage area of an X S mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in the re, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing > something like that?> > I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low.> Anybody got one they want to let go?> > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 gr and it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to ke ep > going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 2 ============> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:05 AM PST US From: "Michel AUVRAY" Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Hi Karl, What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or metallic? How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank? Thanks Michel -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl Heindl Envoy : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Kevin, I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly strapped into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front wall of the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more tanks could also go into the baggage area, so long as they are secure. If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia. Karl
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800 > From: kevann@gotsky.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank > > > Hi All, > > Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank > that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing > something like that? > > I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low. > Anybody got one they want to let go? > > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep > going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200 > ================= > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:39 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Michel, The tanks are high strength blow molded construction using molecular weight (whatever that means) polyethylene, colour is red. Size is 25 liter, measuring 48 x 32 x 28 cm. According to my notes it is on website www.mercurypartsexpress.com . It is made in Canada, but I bought my first one in the UK, where it is half the p rice of the Canadian price. They (Mercury Marine) have a dealer locator lin k. I think I paid 30 pounds including tax, in Canada it is 100 dollars. The fuel connector is part number 22-816856T3. You also need their fuel hose with the quickfit connections. Karl
From: mau11@free.frTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Europa-List: a uxillary fuel tankDate: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:00:25 +0100 Hi Karl, What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or metallic? How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank? Thanks Michel -----Message d'origine-----De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mai lto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl HeindlEnvoy =E9 : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40=C0 : europa-list@matronics.comObjet : R E: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Kevin, I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly strapped into the passenger seat (I ad ded an eyebolt at the bottom front wall of the seat for an extra strap), wi th quickfit connectors, and easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (alumi num elbow). An automotive fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more tanks could also go into the baggage area, so long as t hey are secure. If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Sche rer probably used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tankI think David Joyce is preparing for his fli ght to Australia. Karl
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07 :55 -0800> From: kevann@gotsky.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: in Klinefelter > > Hi All,> > Has anyone out there put t ogether their own axillary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, prob ably a commercially available plastic tank > that could be strapped into th e baggage area of an XS mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am consi dering plumbing in there, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Euro pa design does.Any one doing > something like that?> > I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low.> Anyb ody got one they want to let go?> > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 c ruising at 16 to 18 grand it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiti ng? It'd be nice to keep > going on long XC flights once you are way up the re cruising along at 200 > ================ ==> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:44 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Hi! Michel/Karl/ Dr David Joyce and all, At the expense of being a =93kill joy=94 with regards to =93Red Marine auxiliary tanks=94 =85=85. I believe the guys who were killed doing a 180deg from 300ft take off near San Francisco in a Europa were using just that kind of tank. Don=92t know if there was any conclusions made as to the accident cause or if there was any likely connection but the aircraft pranged into rough grass on the airfield perimeter, the pictures I saw were two body bags and nothing above about 9=94 high was left of the whole plane. I have a 9 imp gallon aluminium tank strapped behind the main tank bulkhead which siphons using the Europa style squeeze ball into the main tank. It fills simultaneously with the main tank filler but can be switched off if not required to be filled. It can also be siphoned empty when on the ground. =93Of course there are some who would say I only needed it due to the Jabiru 3300 gas guzzler!=94 I did satisfy the PFA loading requirements although the actual testing took lots of multiple rope pulleys and a spring balance with mechanical advantage calculations to verify the loads. Ivor Phillips can bear witness to a pitfall where the siphon discontinued and about 2 hours later about 30 minutes out of Vitoria (Spain), due to a double wingover maneuver on a photo shoot whilst leaving Majorca, we had a few moments of glorious silence! He had to do an about turn in his seat and do some rapid hand ball squeezing to ensure enough fuel to make destination. The moral to the story is when flying solo with such arrangements ensure the squeeze ball is within reach of the P1 ! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl Sent: 02 January 2008 18:36 Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Michel, The tanks are high strength blow molded construction using molecular weight (whatever that means) polyethylene, colour is red. Size is 25 liter, measuring 48 x 32 x 28 cm. According to my notes it is on website www.mercurypartsexpress.com . It is made in Canada, but I bought my first one in the UK, where it is half the price of the Canadian price. They (Mercury Marine) have a dealer locator link. I think I paid 30 pounds including tax, in Canada it is 100 dollars. The fuel connector is part number 22-816856T3. You also need their fuel hose with the quickfit connections. Karl
_____ From: mau11@free.fr Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Hi Karl, What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or metallic? How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank? Thanks Michel -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl Heindl Envoy=E9 : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40 =C0 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Kevin, I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly strapped into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front wall of the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more tanks could also go into the baggage area, so long as they are secure. If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia. Karl
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800 > From: kevann@gotsky.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank > > > Hi All, > > Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank > that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing > something like that? > > I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low. > Anybody got one they want to let go? > > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep > going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200 > ================= > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c h ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh r ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:30 PM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank David, As I understand it, it was point 3 that prevented PFA approval of the Europa Long Ranger tank in the UK; strange as many other a/c in the PFA fleet have similar arrangements. Hope you can convince the PFA that the plug-in filler funnel will not be ditched at the first opportunity! Rgds., Duncan McF ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank > > > Kevin, I have designed a composite 110 litre tank to sit in the passenger > seat and to use the existing straps as constraint. It probably doesn't > answer your needs but if so I would be happy to give you more detail. In > this country there are problems with the Europa Long Ranger tank, which I > understand has never got PFA approval. To count as an auxiliary tank (as > opposed to a ferry tank - which introduces its own restrictions) it needs > to > pass CSA-VLA regs, which state among other things: > 1) the tank must cope with 24kPa (3.481psi) overpressure, that is to say a > tad over 500lbs per sq ft! > 2) The restraints must withstand a 9g forward and 3g upward acceleration > loads. > 3) The tank filler must be located outside the personnel compartment (on > my > design achieved by having a plug in filler funnel with a dog leg so that > the > actual filler orifice is outside) > 4) Connections must be such that no fuel pump can draw fuel from more than > one tank at a time. > My tank has not yet passed PFA/LAA approval although Andy Draper > has > made encouraging noises. > Of course on your side of the pond you can probably ignore such > restrictions, but a loose fuel tank must be one of the least desirable > extras with a nasty landing! > Happy New Year, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Klinefelter" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:07 AM > Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank > > >> >> Hi All, >> >> Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I >> am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank >> that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the >> Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not >> install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main >> side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing >> something like that? >> >> I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with >> the dollar so low. >> Anybody got one they want to let go? >> >> I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it >> would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep >> going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200 >> mph TAS. >> >> Kevin >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:45 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs (FB)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into Thanks Kevin, It is good to hear of a few others seeing this too. It looks like I chose a familiar fix-it route, thanks for the confirmation. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Klinefelter Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: mounting quick-connect bellcrank brackets into Sounds like you have it figured out. The brackets on mine came out very similar to yours, as I recall. I called the factory and they said just file off the corners so they do not touch the canoe. Kevin Greg Fuchs (FB) wrote: > > First of all, thanks for all the comments so far. > > I just measured the distance between the two top outboard edges of the > cockpit bellcrank bracket, and compared that with the bottom two. If they > were parallel, I would expect the values to be close. (unless it was a > parallelogram, but then only one side would be affected this way, with > respect to the lower bracket, and this is not the case) The distances came > in at just over 42 1/4" for the top, and just shy of 42 3/8" for the bottom. > Thus they are off only by 1/8" tops. The bottom dimension is the longer > dimension, and the bottom side of the bracket(bellcrank end) is the side > that hits up against the fuselage, not the top side that I said earlier. > Since test fitting into the actual boat shell was SO close to working, I > ground 1/8" from just the corner of the 3mm plywood and metal. This needed > to be done on both sides, since they were both touching. This will have > negligible effect on the strength of the bracket, which will be > bond-strengthened later, and am satisfied that everything clears now, and > can move on without worry. > > What this tells me: > > At least with MY cockpit module, had I gotten both brackets perfectly > vertical and square with each other (the manual just says to visually align > them), I feel there could still be a slight push on one or both of the > brackets by the fuselage shell when bonding the cockpit module in, and it > may also depend on rivet location when bonding, or the squeezing applied by > the fuselage holder, etc. We are talking 1/8" or less here, so it is not > much. I am pretty convinced now that if the problem exists in other modules, > and not caught, many others may have had a small bellcrank alignment issue > after bonding due to this reason. It would have a tendency to separate the > bellcranks from mating, by only a small extra amount. If the distance > between the top brackets (with respect to the aircraft) was the longer > dimension by 1/8", this problem would probably go away. Any more than that, > might start to make the top part of the bracket touch. > > Regards, > Greg Fuchs (A050) > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:36 PM PST US From: "Troy Maynor" Subject: Europa-List: Zinc Chromate and Corrosion X Hi All, I was wondering if using Tempo zinc chromate instead of etching primer to do the mod 72 would be ok. I could not find a conclusive answer in the archive. Also,I have Corrosion X in the place of ACF 50. I read somewhere it was equally good to use and I already have a can of it and the zinc chromate. Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring. Weaverville, NC USA ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:30 PM PST US From: Martin Tuck Subject: Europa-List: Re: auxiliary fuel tank Hi Kevin, I have a Europa supplied Auxiliary (Long Range) tank which I have plumbed in but have never used - and probably never will. I don't know what a new one costs these days. How much would you offer me for it? Where are you located, I assume here in the US? If anyone else is interested let me know. Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:11 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Bob, great "there I was" story. I too am very concerned about blow molded plastic tanks for use in an aircraft. I can't jump overboard and get in the water fast as I can in a boat. I would prefer a properly secured, 9 G, spun molded tank used for racing (similar to the Europa tank construction), a coated fiberglass tank or a proper aluminum tank if were my plane. Yes it's expensive, and as Bob states, time consuming to build and mount, but worth it. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert C Harrison To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:22 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Hi! Michel/Karl/ Dr David Joyce and all, At the expense of being a "kill joy" with regards to "Red Marine auxiliary tanks" ... I believe the guys who were killed doing a 180deg from 300ft take off near San Francisco in a Europa were using just that kind of tank. Don't know if there was any conclusions made as to the accident cause or if there was any likely connection but the aircraft pranged into rough grass on the airfield perimeter, the pictures I saw were two body bags and nothing above about 9" high was left of the whole plane. I have a 9 imp gallon aluminium tank strapped behind the main tank bulkhead which siphons using the Europa style squeeze ball into the main tank. It fills simultaneously with the main tank filler but can be switched off if not required to be filled. It can also be siphoned empty when on the ground. "Of course there are some who would say I only needed it due to the Jabiru 3300 gas guzzler!" I did satisfy the PFA loading requirements although the actual testing took lots of multiple rope pulleys and a spring balance with mechanical advantage calculations to verify the loads. Ivor Phillips can bear witness to a pitfall where the siphon discontinued and about 2 hours later about 30 minutes out of Vitoria (Spain), due to a double wingover maneuver on a photo shoot whilst leaving Majorca, we had a few moments of glorious silence! He had to do an about turn in his seat and do some rapid hand ball squeezing to ensure enough fuel to make destination. The moral to the story is when flying solo with such arrangements ensure the squeeze ball is within reach of the P1 ! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl Sent: 02 January 2008 18:36 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Michel, The tanks are high strength blow molded construction using molecular weight (whatever that means) polyethylene, colour is red. Size is 25 liter, measuring 48 x 32 x 28 cm. According to my notes it is on website www.mercurypartsexpress.com . It is made in Canada, but I bought my first one in the UK, where it is half the price of the Canadian price. They (Mercury Marine) have a dealer locator link. I think I paid 30 pounds including tax, in Canada it is 100 dollars. The fuel connector is part number 22-816856T3. You also need their fuel hose with the quickfit connections. Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: mau11@free.fr To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:00:25 +0100 Hi Karl, What exact heavy duty marine tank model do you speak, plastic or metallic? How many liters? Do you have web site adress for this tank? Thanks Michel -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Karl Heindl Envoy=E9 : mercredi 2 janvier 2008 15:40 =C0 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : RE: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank Kevin, I have been using a portable 25 liter heavy duty marine tank, firmly strapped into the passenger seat (I added an eyebolt at the bottom front wall of the seat for an extra strap), with quickfit connectors, and easily plumbed in to the main tank inlet (aluminum elbow). An automotive fuel pump is also plumbed into the fuel line. Of course, one or more tanks could also go into the baggage area, so long as they are secure. If of real interest, I can look up the details. Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on his flight across the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank I think David Joyce is preparing for his flight to Australia. Karl
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:07:55 -0800 > From: kevann@gotsky.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank > > > Hi All, > > Has anyone out there put together their own axillary fuel tank design? I > am looking for ideas, probably a commercially available plastic tank > that could be strapped into the baggage area of an XS mono. I have the > Singleton fuel tank outlets with vacant taps because I elected to not > install a sight gage, so I am considering plumbing in there, to the Main > side, and not siphoning as the Europa design does.Any one doing > something like that? > > I would buy a Europa aux tank but the cost is just a bit crazy, with > the dollar so low. > Anybody got one they want to let go? > > I am not yet flying, but with the 914 cruising at 16 to 18 grand it > would seem that 18.5 gallons is a bit limiting? It'd be nice to keep > going on long XC flights once you are way up there cruising along at 200 > ================= > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contributionarget=_blank>http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listp://forums.matronics.com - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: auxillary fuel tank From: Fred Klein On Wednesday, Jan 2, 2008, at 06:40 US/Pacific, Karl Heindl wrote: > Thomas Scherer probably used something similar on his flight across > the Pacific, also Eric Trombley has a marine tank. I think David Joyce > is preparing for his flight to Australia. I recall seeing what appeared to be several standard Europa long ranger tanks in a photo on Thomas's website, though it might have been his setup for crossing the Atlantic rather than the Pacific (where he may have done something differently). In any event, for myself, I am very leery of jerry-rigging marine tanks for our sweet little bird due to questionable crashworthiness, particularly in the aftermath of the crash at Livermore, notwithstanding my propensity to propose and execute various mods which suit my fancy but allow me to remain in my personal comfort zone. Fred (still in the armchair, i.e., not flying) A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.