Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:37 AM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (craig bastin)
2. 04:09 AM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (Gert Dalgaard)
3. 04:16 AM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (Simon Smith)
4. 05:47 AM - Rotax 912 electronic noise (Richard Lamprey)
5. 09:42 AM - Re: Rotax 912 electronic noise (Mike Gregory)
6. 10:52 AM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (jason Parker)
Message 1
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I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s to
reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra
capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or so.
Could be a good way to go
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Simon Smith
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2008 7:14 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
Not Correct!
From the Rotax aircraft website at www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com Both the
912 and the 914 are 1211cc and 9:1 ratio. The 912S is different at 1352cc
and 10.5:1
All three use the same crankshaft and connecting rods (they are a single
unit and cannot be separated) p/n 888164. The 912 and 914 used 79.5mm dia
piston p/n 996549 and the 912S uses 84mm p/n 88838. there is also a
difference in the piston pins and rings. Some earlier 912 and 914 engines
use crank p/n 996583.
cheers
Simon
On 12 Jan 2008, at 16:25, rlborger wrote:
Curtis & other Europaphiles,
Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.
The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different compression
ratios due to the different pistons and (I believe) connecting rods. The
three engines 912, 912S and 914 all have different compression ratios.
Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the presence
of the turbo.
There are also differences in the lube system to support the special
lubrication needs of the turbo.
There may be other differences.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in,
flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete.
Mod 72 complete. Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914
installed (for the 3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical
complete, except for testing. Fuel system complete except for testing.
Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing.
Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior
kit has arrived and is being installed.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:
Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul
and the 914? As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for
the turbo. The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same. is the
914 beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo? Has
anyone heard of an after market turbo for the 912?
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om/Navigator?Europa-List
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bution
8:23 PM
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912/914 |
- what do we need 130 hp for ?? :-)
Regards Gert
Mono/914/app. 500 hours
OY-GDS
Den 14/01/2008 kl. 12.41 skrev craig bastin:
> I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a
> 912s to reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the
> extra
> capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp
> or so. Could be a good way to go
>
> craig
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912/914 |
Craig,
All three engines use the same crank and con rods. The crank is not a
solid forging but is made up from various components in a special
press (hence the rods cannot be changed). I have seen the result of a
914 that took off with the TCU switched off and the crank was
twisted. I would suggest that a 912s with a turbo might not provide
sufficient margin of safety.
cheers
Simon
On 14 Jan 2008, at 11:41, craig bastin wrote:
> I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a
> 912s to reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the
> extra
> capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp
> or so. Could be a good way to go
>
> craig
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> ]On Behalf Of Simon Smith
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2008 7:14 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
>
> Not Correct!
>
> From the Rotax aircraft website at www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com
> Both the 912 and the 914 are 1211cc and 9:1 ratio. The 912S is
> different at 1352cc and 10.5:1
>
> All three use the same crankshaft and connecting rods (they are a
> single unit and cannot be separated) p/n 888164. The 912 and 914
> used 79.5mm dia piston p/n 996549 and the 912S uses 84mm p/n 88838.
> there is also a difference in the piston pins and rings. Some
> earlier 912 and 914 engines use crank p/n 996583.
>
> cheers
>
> Simon
>
> On 12 Jan 2008, at 16:25, rlborger wrote:
>
>> Curtis & other Europaphiles,
>>
>> Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.
>>
>> The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different
>> compression ratios due to the different pistons and (I believe)
>> connecting rods. The three engines 912, 912S and 914 all have
>> different compression ratios.
>>
>> Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the
>> presence of the turbo.
>>
>> There are also differences in the lube system to support the
>> special lubrication needs of the turbo.
>>
>> There may be other differences.
>>
>> Good building and great flying,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
>> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
>> (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
>> system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod
>> in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set,
>> tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps &
>> Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete. Instrument panel complete,
>> except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time).
>> Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for
>> testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32
>> Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing.
>> Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04
>> interior kit has arrived and is being installed.
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208
>> Home: 940-497-2123
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax
>>> 912ul and the 914? As far as I can determine, they are the same
>>> engine except for the turbo. The displacement and the pistons
>>> seem to be the same. is the 914 beefed up in some way to take the
>>> extra strain from the turbo? Has anyone heard of an after market
>>> turbo for the 912?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
> ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Rotax 912 electronic noise |
Can anyone shed light on an strange noise that emanates from my engine
on startup? The engine is a basic 912UL, with about 520 hours on it.
The noise is an electronic note, almost flutelike, around G in pitch.
After startup, and idle at about 2200 RPM, you hear this noise through
the firewall, loud enough for a passenger to comment. With increasing
RPM, it doesn't increase much in pitch, just slightly, and therefore I
think it must somehow be related to the alternator output, or possible
the voltage regulator (Ducati); and not related to any noisy bearings in
anything.
You cannot detect this noise if you stand close to the running engine,
with the cowling off. It seems that the firewall acts as a resonating
surface to amplify it to inside the cockpit.
The noise goes for about 5 minutes during warm-up, then quite suddenly
it completely disappears, usually at about the time of taxying out. All
through this startup, the engine runs smoothly, and temperatures and
pressures behave normally. The big spike-protecting capacitor charges
up, and after a minute or two from startup, the voltmeter shows a switch
from 12 volt (not charging) to 14 volt (charging), All quite normal,
and seemingly unrelated to the noise.
This noise didn't happen when the engine was new. It began after about
300 hours of engine time. It is particularly noticeable after sometime
without engine operation, say 2 weeks or longer.
Any ideas on this mystery noise gratefully received!
Richard Lamprey
Europa Classic, 5Y-LRY
Nairobi, Kenya
Message 5
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Subject: | Rotax 912 electronic noise |
Richard,
Anything related to the alternator output would vary with the RPM, but it
wouldn't surprise me if the Ducati regulator was doing something mysterious.
A vibration within the regulator attached to the firewall would allow the
firewall to act as a sounding board as you suggest.
If it can be done safely, you might be able to see if the regulator is
involved by getting someone to press their hand on it while the engine is
running. If this damps the vibration (or the hand can feel the buzz) then
this could confirm it. Alternatively, you might temporarily detach the
regulator from the firewall (but make sure it is still properly grounded)
and see if the resonance is still there. Ducati regulators are not known
for their longevity, especially if they get hot in service (go on, tell us
it's hot in Kenya!). Many regulators had been replaced after 300 hours or
less.
I am not sure how normal is your delay of a minute or two before the voltage
rises from 12 to 14. The regulator ought to provide full charging voltage
immediately the alternator is up to speed, unless there is a discharged
battery drawing a heavy current that drags the voltage down; even then, I
would expect the voltage to rise slowly as the battery charges rather than
jump suddenly, assuming you are not switching any major electrical loads at
the time.
I defer to Gilles Thesee regarding the internal workings of the regulator
and what might cause it to act in this way, if indeed it is the culprit.
Mike Gregory
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey
Sent: 15 January 2008 00:44
Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 electronic noise
Can anyone shed light on an strange noise that emanates from my engine on
startup? The engine is a basic 912UL, with about 520 hours on it. The
noise is an electronic note, almost flutelike, around G in pitch. After
startup, and idle at about 2200 RPM, you hear this noise through the
firewall, loud enough for a passenger to comment. With increasing RPM, it
doesn't increase much in pitch, just slightly, and therefore I think it must
somehow be related to the alternator output, or possible the voltage
regulator (Ducati); and not related to any noisy bearings in anything.
You cannot detect this noise if you stand close to the running engine, with
the cowling off. It seems that the firewall acts as a resonating surface to
amplify it to inside the cockpit.
The noise goes for about 5 minutes during warm-up, then quite suddenly it
completely disappears, usually at about the time of taxying out. All
through this startup, the engine runs smoothly, and temperatures and
pressures behave normally. The big spike-protecting capacitor charges up,
and after a minute or two from startup, the voltmeter shows a switch from 12
volt (not charging) to 14 volt (charging), All quite normal, and seemingly
unrelated to the noise.
This noise didn't happen when the engine was new. It began after about 300
hours of engine time. It is particularly noticeable after sometime without
engine operation, say 2 weeks or longer.
Any ideas on this mystery noise gratefully received!
Richard Lamprey
Europa Classic, 5Y-LRY
Nairobi, Kenya
Message 6
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Craig,
No spacers are needed. Simply replace the pistons with lower compression pistons.
The problem with the 912s is that the cylinder walls are very thin. I don't
know when you will exceed the designs safety factor and crack jugs.
See my line of fuel injected engines at www.experimentalfuelinjection.com We do fuel injection the proper way. I sell the following kits as well
To fuel inject a rotax 912 4500 with wideband o2 sensor and 55 amp alt
To make a 912 into a fuel injected 914 9000USD
Give me a call with any questions
661 428-1850
craig bastin <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote: I wonder if anyone has switched
pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s to reduce the compression and then
turbo charged it. With the extra
capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or so. Could
be a good way to go
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Simon Smith
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2008 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
Not Correct!
From the Rotax aircraft website at www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com Both the 912 and the 914 are 1211cc and 9:1 ratio. The 912S is different at 1352cc and 10.5:1
All three use the same crankshaft and connecting rods (they are a single
unit and cannot be separated) p/n 888164. The 912 and 914 used 79.5mm dia
piston p/n 996549 and the 912S uses 84mm p/n 88838. there is also a difference
in the piston pins and rings. Some earlier 912 and 914 engines use crank
p/n 996583.
cheers
Simon
On 12 Jan 2008, at 16:25, rlborger wrote:
Curtis & other Europaphiles,
Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.
The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different compression
ratios due to the different pistons and (I believe) connecting rods. The
three engines 912, 912S and 914 all have different compression ratios.
Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the presence
of the turbo.
There are also differences in the lube system to support the special
lubrication needs of the turbo.
There may be other differences.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system
in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage
Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap
drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod
72 complete. Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914
installed (for the 3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete,
except for testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working
in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing.
Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior
kit has arrived and is being installed.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:
Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul
and the 914? As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except
for the turbo. The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same.
is the 914 beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo?
Has anyone heard of an after market turbo for the 912?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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