Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:37 AM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (craig bastin)
2. 02:50 AM - Re: Rotax 912 electronic noise (craig bastin)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (William Daniell)
4. 11:49 AM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (craig bastin)
5. 12:15 PM - Re: Rotax 912/914 (William Daniell)
6. 06:19 PM - Europa folk in Florida - Off topic (Paul McAllister)
Message 1
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faster climb outs springs to mind, 165kts cruise might be nice too : )
Plus, and i guess some of you mountain flyers would be familiar with
mountain waves etc, full power 100kts nose up and still sinking
at 1000fpm or more. not that you need our may even want to use it, but that
extra power may save your life.
Plus it give ATC something to think about when you take off at 150kts
2000fpm climb : ) and they are up there thinking "Stupid little kit planes
shouldnt
be using REAL airports like this one"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard
Sent: Monday, 14 January 2008 10:09 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
- what do we need 130 hp for ?? :-)
Regards Gert
Mono/914/app. 500 hours
OY-GDS
Den 14/01/2008 kl. 12.41 skrev craig bastin:
I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a
912s to reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra
capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or
so. Could be a good way to go
craig
5:39 PM
Message 2
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 electronic noise |
If you are getting a sudden jump in voltage after a couple of minutes, I
would have a look at the field coils and bridge rectifier in the alternator
I have seen simmilar in the past, where you would get a constant discharge
until such time as there was enough residual field in the alternator
to kick it into charging. You could speed up the kick over to charging by
running higher RPM from start (not ideal for reasons of wear) in this
instance
it was a defective diode in the bridge rectifier. As for the noise, likely
as you say, a noisy component in the reg being amped by the firewall, which
shuts up
once its up to temp.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey
Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2008 10:44 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 electronic noise
Can anyone shed light on an strange noise that emanates from my engine on
startup? The engine is a basic 912UL, with about 520 hours on it. The
noise is an electronic note, almost flutelike, around G in pitch. After
startup, and idle at about 2200 RPM, you hear this noise through the
firewall, loud enough for a passenger to comment. With increasing RPM, it
doesn't increase much in pitch, just slightly, and therefore I think it must
somehow be related to the alternator output, or possible the voltage
regulator (Ducati); and not related to any noisy bearings in anything.
You cannot detect this noise if you stand close to the running engine,
with the cowling off. It seems that the firewall acts as a resonating
surface to amplify it to inside the cockpit.
The noise goes for about 5 minutes during warm-up, then quite suddenly it
completely disappears, usually at about the time of taxying out. All
through this startup, the engine runs smoothly, and temperatures and
pressures behave normally. The big spike-protecting capacitor charges up,
and after a minute or two from startup, the voltmeter shows a switch from 12
volt (not charging) to 14 volt (charging), All quite normal, and seemingly
unrelated to the noise.
This noise didn't happen when the engine was new. It began after about
300 hours of engine time. It is particularly noticeable after sometime
without engine operation, say 2 weeks or longer.
Any ideas on this mystery noise gratefully received!
Richard Lamprey
Europa Classic, 5Y-LRY
Nairobi, Kenya
5:39 PM
Message 3
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Well funny you should mention that. In Colombia where experimental
aviation
is not subject to quite so many restrictions they have been
turbocharging
912 (normal) for many years ' in fact before the 914 came out. This
was
originally developed to deal with the high altitudes.
Basically what they do is bolt a mitsubishi car turbo on to a stock 912.
I
have one on my zenith and it works well. It has some interesting
features
such as retaining the mechanical pump in series with an electric boost
pump.
It will run at 22=94 with just the mechanical pump. With both fuel
pumps
running at 8500ft this arrangement is good for 33=94 of manifold
pressure.
The waste-gate is purely mechanical ' no electronics at all.
This issue for the Europa is the that the engine is rather long because
the
turbo sits behind the crankcase.
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig
bastin
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 06:42
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a
912s to
reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra
capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or
so.
Could be a good way to go
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Simon Smith
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2008 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
Not Correct!
>From the Rotax aircraft website at HYPERLINK
"http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com"www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com
Both
the 912 and the 914 are 1211cc and 9:1 ratio. The 912S is different at
1352cc and 10.5:1
All three use the same crankshaft and connecting rods (they are a single
unit and cannot be separated) p/n 888164. The 912 and 914 used 79.5mm
dia
piston p/n 996549 and the 912S uses 84mm p/n 88838. there is also a
difference in the piston pins and rings. Some earlier 912 and 914
engines
use crank p/n 996583.
cheers
Simon
On 12 Jan 2008, at 16:25, rlborger wrote:
Curtis & other Europaphiles,
Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.
The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different compression
ratios
due to the different pistons and (I believe) connecting rods. The three
engines 912, 912S and 914 all have different compression ratios.
Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the presence
of
the turbo.
There are also differences in the lube system to support the special
lubrication needs of the turbo.
There may be other differences.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
HYPERLINK
"http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL"http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system
in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage
Top
on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive
in,
Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72
complete.
Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for
the
3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for
testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32
Tail, 34
Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29
Sep
05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is
being installed.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:
Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul and
the
914? As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for the
turbo. The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same. is the
914
beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo? Has
anyone
heard of an after market turbo for the 912?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
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om/Navigator?Europa-List
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12-Jan-08
14:04
12-Jan-08
14:04
Message 4
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interesting, I have wondered if it would be a cheaper option to go that
path, pay 16k for a 912 then turbo it, or pay 37k for a 914
cause thats what rotax want for a 914 in australia. A new garret turbo will
run you about 7k if you know where to go, about 3k for
manifolds etc and your saving about 10k
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2008 11:03 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
Well funny you should mention that. In Colombia where experimental
aviation is not subject to quite so many restrictions they have been
turbocharging 912 (normal) for many years in fact before the 914 came out.
This was originally developed to deal with the high altitudes.
Basically what they do is bolt a mitsubishi car turbo on to a stock 912.
I have one on my zenith and it works well. It has some interesting features
such as retaining the mechanical pump in series with an electric boost pump.
It will run at 22 with just the mechanical pump. With both fuel pumps
running at 8500ft this arrangement is good for 33 of manifold pressure.
The waste-gate is purely mechanical no electronics at all.
This issue for the Europa is the that the engine is rather long because
the turbo sits behind the crankcase.
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 06:42
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s
to reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra
capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or so.
Could be a good way to go
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Simon Smith
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2008 7:14 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
Not Correct!
From the Rotax aircraft website at www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com Both
the 912 and the 914 are 1211cc and 9:1 ratio. The 912S is different at
1352cc and 10.5:1
All three use the same crankshaft and connecting rods (they are a single
unit and cannot be separated) p/n 888164. The 912 and 914 used 79.5mm dia
piston p/n 996549 and the 912S uses 84mm p/n 88838. there is also a
difference in the piston pins and rings. Some earlier 912 and 914 engines
use crank p/n 996583.
cheers
Simon
On 12 Jan 2008, at 16:25, rlborger wrote:
Curtis & other Europaphiles,
Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.
The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different compression
ratios due to the different pistons and (I believe) connecting rods. The
three engines 912, 912S and 914 all have different compression ratios.
Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the presence
of the turbo.
There are also differences in the lube system to support the special
lubrication needs of the turbo.
There may be other differences.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in,
flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete.
Mod 72 complete. Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914
installed (for the 3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical
complete, except for testing. Fuel system complete except for testing.
Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing.
Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior
kit has arrived and is being installed.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:
Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul and
the 914? As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for the
turbo. The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same. is the 914
beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo? Has anyone
heard of an after market turbo for the 912?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Europa-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.mat
ronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.
com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.ma
tronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
12-Jan-08 14:04
12-Jan-08 14:04
5:39 PM
Message 5
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That is exactly what happens here=85the difference I think is USD26k for
a new
914 and USD16k + USD5k or so for the turbo so you save 5 k. The
=93manifolds=94 well that is rather a sophisticated name for it. The
turbo
sits at the end of the exhaust pipe and then exits through a cylindrical
exhaust collector box to the outside.
The cool side of the turbo is connected with a substantial piece of
rubber
tubing to an airbox whence the air is fed to the carbs. There is an
alternative air source in the box to permit the engine to breath if the
turbo stops. And it does work without the turbo as well.
The turbo has an oil feed from the pump and outlet to the oil tank.
The whole things looks about as basic as it gets.
I don=92t think that you have to go quite a sophisticated for the turbo
as a
garrett=85if you are interested I am sure I can find the details of how
it is
done.
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig
bastin
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 14:53
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
interesting, I have wondered if it would be a cheaper option to go that
path, pay 16k for a 912 then turbo it, or pay 37k for a 914
cause thats what rotax want for a 914 in australia. A new garret turbo
will
run you about 7k if you know where to go, about 3k for
manifolds etc and your saving about 10k
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2008 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
Well funny you should mention that. In Colombia where experimental
aviation
is not subject to quite so many restrictions they have been
turbocharging
912 (normal) for many years ' in fact before the 914 came out. This
was
originally developed to deal with the high altitudes.
Basically what they do is bolt a mitsubishi car turbo on to a stock 912.
I
have one on my zenith and it works well. It has some interesting
features
such as retaining the mechanical pump in series with an electric boost
pump.
It will run at 22=94 with just the mechanical pump. With both fuel
pumps
running at 8500ft this arrangement is good for 33=94 of manifold
pressure.
The waste-gate is purely mechanical ' no electronics at all.
This issue for the Europa is the that the engine is rather long because
the
turbo sits behind the crankcase.
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig
bastin
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 06:42
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a
912s to
reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra
capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or
so.
Could be a good way to go
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Simon Smith
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2008 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912/914
Not Correct!
>From the Rotax aircraft website at HYPERLINK
"http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com"www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com
Both
the 912 and the 914 are 1211cc and 9:1 ratio. The 912S is different at
1352cc and 10.5:1
All three use the same crankshaft and connecting rods (they are a single
unit and cannot be separated) p/n 888164. The 912 and 914 used 79.5mm
dia
piston p/n 996549 and the 912S uses 84mm p/n 88838. there is also a
difference in the piston pins and rings. Some earlier 912 and 914
engines
use crank p/n 996583.
cheers
Simon
On 12 Jan 2008, at 16:25, rlborger wrote:
Curtis & other Europaphiles,
Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.
The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different compression
ratios
due to the different pistons and (I believe) connecting rods. The three
engines 912, 912S and 914 all have different compression ratios.
Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the presence
of
the turbo.
There are also differences in the lube system to support the special
lubrication needs of the turbo.
There may be other differences.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
HYPERLINK
"http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL"http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system
in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage
Top
on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive
in,
Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72
complete.
Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for
the
3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for
testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32
Tail, 34
Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29
Sep
05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is
being installed.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:
Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul and
the
914? As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for the
turbo. The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same. is the
914
beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo? Has
anyone
heard of an after market turbo for the 912?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
ics.c
om/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontri
bution
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12-Jan-08 14:04
12-Jan-08 14:04
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14:04
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Europa folk in Florida - Off topic |
Hi floks,
This is off topic, but I was wondering if there were any folks in the
Orlando area who might be able to help me conclude a transaction to
purchase a car. Its located in the 32712 zip code area.
Anyhow, if there is anyone who lives not too far away from this area
and can help out please contact me off line.
Thanks, Paul
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