---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/25/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:17 AM - Re: IMC rating (Steve Pitt) 2. 02:16 AM - Re: IMC rating (William Harrison) 3. 03:58 AM - Re: Engine Bay wiring (josok) 4. 05:59 AM - Re: Engine Bay wiring (rampil) 5. 07:35 AM - Engine Bay wiring concerns (Fergus Kyle) 6. 09:51 AM - Re: Engine Bay wiring (D Wysong) 7. 02:50 PM - Re: Engine Bay wiring (europa flugzeug fabrik) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:40 AM PST US From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: IMC rating Thanks Bob that was just the sort of feedback I was looking for. I found it extremely frustrating that having paid and trained for the IMC (I saw it as a further development course that was going to keep me skilled and safe with my flying) that the ATC units could not see anything other than a nuisance to their Commercial operations. I have feedback from a well respected and experienced trainer/examiner who says that he does not do IMC training as "it's a real pain even in a normal aircraft. Getting any sort of instrument approach is difficult". The 'lack of accident' statistics speak for themselves - we must continue to see the IMC used and trained to improve safety. Thanks for the replies so far. Steve Pitt G-SMDH PS What do the Commercial I/R pilots think of the subject? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:17 AM PST US From: William Harrison Subject: Re: Europa-List: IMC rating Remind me someone, is there also a concession in the UK about reduced in-flight vis which is deemed VFR if you have an IMC rating (regardless of what type of a/c you're flying?) Steve, I'm in the same boat as you. Mine lapsed and since instrument approaches are clearly off limits in a Permit a/c, I didn't see the point of renewing it. Never regretted the training though - a life saver if you use it to get out of IMC (not necessarily if you use it to get into IMC). Anyway, it looks as if all the Euro-harmonisation, which cousin Bob loves so much, is going to scrap the IMC rating. Safe Flying Willie On 25 Jan 2008, at 09:09, Steve Pitt wrote: > > > Thanks Bob that was just the sort of feedback I was looking for. I > found it extremely frustrating that having paid and trained for the > IMC (I saw it as a further development course that was going to > keep me skilled and safe with my flying) that the ATC units could > not see anything other than a nuisance to their Commercial operations. > I have feedback from a well respected and experienced trainer/ > examiner who says that he does not do IMC training as "it's a real > pain even in a normal aircraft. Getting any sort of instrument > approach is difficult". > The 'lack of accident' statistics speak for themselves - we must > continue to see the IMC used and trained to improve safety. > > Thanks for the replies so far. > Steve Pitt > G-SMDH > PS What do the Commercial I/R pilots think of the subject? > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:10 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Engine Bay wiring From: "josok" Hi Fred, Would it not be a good idea to -always- take special care at the termination points? A good rule is, that if the copper can move at it's attachment point it needs reinforcement, whatever gauge. Regards, Jos Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:24 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Engine Bay wiring From: "rampil" Hi Fred F, Ferg originally said he was using 6 conductor cable. That would mitigate the vibration flexing from your otherwise very good point. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160394#160394 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:43 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Engine Bay wiring concerns To Ira, Jos and Gilles - Again, thanks for such rapid advice. I am properly chastened in my onetime excursion into creative wiring. The wire was bought long ago when purse was open before brain engaged. I will re-instal #20, using suggested source, and it will all be heat-resistant tefzel. Ferg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:27 AM PST US From: "D Wysong" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Engine Bay wiring > > Ferg, why y'all usin' #22 wire in a vibrating environment? Without > special care > in terminating the wires, they can eventually fracture. I don't think > I've > seen a production A/C with #22. They use #20 for small currents, no > matter how > small. > Ferg almost burns his house down by cooking wire in a toaster oven and you want him to start worrying about wire gauge!? ;-) Seriously, a long glance behind any modern panel (especially those with glass) will reveal a host of 22 AWG wires or smaller. There is absolutely no written/unwritten rule about using a minimum of 20 AWG. The panacea here is good workmanship (e.g. - proper strain relief, proper support at regular intervals, proper service loops, etc.), NOT bigger wires. Proper workmanship also includes selecting wire rated for the environment, so stick with the Tefzel, Ferg! See chapter 11 of AC 43.13 for suggestions on the rest (free PDF available here: *http://tinyurl.com/ynopgy).* D ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:57 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Engine Bay wiring From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" rampil wrote: > Ferg originally said he was using 6 conductor cable. That would mitigate the vibration flexing from your otherwise very good point. Yes, but I'm picturing the connections to the individual engine sensors. #22 behind the panel inside the plane is OK, if the wire ends at the instrument connectors are properly dressed and/or secured. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160505#160505 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.