Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:08 AM - Don Dykins book (Remi Guerner)
2. 03:13 AM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (craig bastin)
3. 03:56 AM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (Robert C Harrison)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (rampil)
5. 07:26 AM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (david miller)
6. 09:30 AM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (Jeff B)
7. 03:22 PM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (Keith Hickling)
8. 04:35 PM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (europa flugzeug fabrik)
9. 06:50 PM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (Steve Hagar)
10. 07:48 PM - Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio Pump (Roger Lowe)
Message 1
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Mike Gregory wrote:
"Yes, the airspeed axis on page 15 Figure 1 is labelled "VEASKTS",
standing for Equivalent Airspeed in knots ..........I do not believe Don
Dykins is wrong, and I do not agree that it is nonsense
to talk about performance in terms of indicated airspeed. "
Mike,
I fully understand that. But again when talking about cruise
performance, what the builder owner or pilot of the Europa is interested
in is True Air Speed, not Indicated Airspeed. This is why I said this is
nonsense.
Fortunately I did not pay the 5 British Pounds for the book, as I just
borrow it!
Best regards
Remi
Message 2
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| Subject: | Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
I have used digital scales with great success also, but ran out of Ampreg
and so switched to West Systems and it came with
ratio pumps that replace the caps on the bottles. Personally I have found
the two separate pumps much faster and easier than
using the scales, but i am past the really big layups and for big lots the
pumps may be a pain, you will need the scales or balance
for the araldite 420, just dont forget the different ratio required.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Lowe
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2008 12:53 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs
Ratio Pump
Hi, I've purchased a partially complete Europa a little over a year ago and
had to put it storage until my garage/workshop was re-vamped in order to
build the kit. It is now to a point to where I can start moving my kit into
it and start working on it.
I have question about the different devices used to measure the epoxy and
wondering what most builders have done in the past. The cheapest of course
is to make the Europa mechanical balance which should be no problem (is it
quick and easy to use during a layup?) but I'm leaning towards either a
Ohaus / Sartorius digital scale with a resolution of 0.01gm (do I need that
much precision or can I get away with a lower cost 0.1gm unit?) OR a ratio
pump like a Glenmarc Portionator MBT-JR from A/S which is the most expensive
of the all the options (is it worth the cost for ease of use?).
I live in Canada so I will be using Aeropoxy resin (100:27 by weight or 3 to
1 by volume).
I would appreciable any feedback/experience that you have that would help me
make up my mind!
Thanks, Roger
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
9:09 AM
9:09 AM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
Hi! Roger.
I exclusively used a Ohaus digital scale.
For me it was easy since I decided how much of combined epoxy I wished
to make at one mix (Not more than say approx. 25gm because of exotherm
likleyhood).
Zero the unit with my mixing cup and mixing stick on the bed. Carefully
pour say 5gm of hardener in, follow by pouring in epoxy to make up to
25gm this way, so long as you know your 5X table, is foolproof. For
subsequent mixes following immediately on I used the same mixer cup and
stick but re-set the scale before starting each mix and be sure to
re-mix any dregs of the original mix with the new mix. So you are using
as clean a new mix every time.
I'm quite sure someone is going to tell me I was incorrect by method but
there you have it.
Have fun
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Europa Kit 337 originally 3300 Jabiru now with
Rotax 914 and intercooler 600 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lowe
Sent: 31 January 2008 02:53
Subject: Europa-List: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs
Ratio Pump
Hi, I've purchased a partially complete Europa a little over a year ago
and had to put it storage until my garage/workshop was re-vamped in
order to build the kit. It is now to a point to where I can start moving
my kit into it and start working on it.
I have question about the different devices used to measure the epoxy
and wondering what most builders have done in the past. The cheapest of
course is to make the Europa mechanical balance which should be no
problem (is it quick and easy to use during a layup?) but I'm leaning
towards either a Ohaus / Sartorius digital scale with a resolution of
0.01gm (do I need that much precision or can I get away with a lower
cost 0.1gm unit?) OR a ratio pump like a Glenmarc Portionator MBT-JR
from A/S which is the most expensive of the all the options (is it worth
the cost for ease of use?).
I live in Canada so I will be using Aeropoxy resin (100:27 by weight or
3 to 1 by volume).
I would appreciable any feedback/experience that you have that would
help me make up my mind!
Thanks, Roger
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
Tenth of a gram is more than adequate for mixing resin. Most batches
for layups will be between 30g and 100g, mixed. More than that
may exotherm in the cup. A scale that gives you 0.5% is way better than necessary
since 5% is probably just fine. A scale with 0.01 gram resolution
is a fragile lab instrument, not a working shop instrument useful for
production work. It would waver with air breezes.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161549#161549
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
Hi Roger,
I'm located in London, Ont, and have a completely refurbished epoxy
pump, that was used by Chris Staines
in his build, I would be happy to sell it for about the same price as
a scale.
I used a scale for my build,and found it to be quick and easy to use.
The cheapest place to find an electronic scale is in a drug
paraphernalia store!
A few years ago I spoke to the Aeropoxy reps at Oshkosh, they were
clearly amused by anyone
bothering to measure to the nearest tenth of a gram - off the record
they indicated that the tolerance
levels for a proper cure are quite high. I tended to end up a little
short of hardener in each batch, their
suggestion was to just short a bit on the hardener, on each mix.
Dave A061
519-666-0480
On 30-Jan-08, at 9:53 PM, Roger Lowe wrote:
>
> Hi, I've purchased a partially complete Europa a little over a year
> ago and had to put it storage until my garage/workshop was re-
> vamped in order to build the kit. It is now to a point to where I
> can start moving my kit into it and start working on it.
>
> I have question about the different devices used to measure the
> epoxy and wondering what most builders have done in the past. The
> cheapest of course is to make the Europa mechanical balance which
> should be no problem (is it quick and easy to use during a layup?)
> but I'm leaning towards either a Ohaus / Sartorius digital scale
> with a resolution of 0.01gm (do I need that much precision or can I
> get away with a lower cost 0.1gm unit?) OR a ratio pump like a
> Glenmarc Portionator MBT-JR from A/S which is the most expensive of
> the all the options (is it worth the cost for ease of use?).
>
> I live in Canada so I will be using Aeropoxy resin (100:27 by
> weight or 3 to 1 by volume).
>
> I would appreciable any feedback/experience that you have that
> would help me make up my mind!
>
> Thanks, Roger
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
Roger,
Guess I'm the odd man out, but I used the pump and loved the ease and
speed. Only down side I found was having to clean it up every few
months. 15 minute job. Well worth it, in my opinion, for the
convenience of pulling the handle and you're done...
BTW, I got the pump with the kit, so cost was not a factor for me...
Jeff - Baby Blue
363 hrs
Roger Lowe wrote:
>
> Hi, I've purchased a partially complete Europa a little over a year ago and had
to put it storage until my garage/workshop was re-vamped in order to build
the kit. It is now to a point to where I can start moving my kit into it and start
working on it.
>
> I have question about the different devices used to measure the epoxy and wondering
what most builders have done in the past. The cheapest of course is to
make the Europa mechanical balance which should be no problem (is it quick and
easy to use during a layup?) but I'm leaning towards either a Ohaus / Sartorius
digital scale with a resolution of 0.01gm (do I need that much precision or
can I get away with a lower cost 0.1gm unit?) OR a ratio pump like a Glenmarc
Portionator MBT-JR from A/S which is the most expensive of the all the options
(is it worth the cost for ease of use?).
>
> I live in Canada so I will be using Aeropoxy resin (100:27 by weight or 3 to
1 by volume).
>
> I would appreciable any feedback/experience that you have that would help me
make up my mind!
>
> Thanks, Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
Ira wrote:
A scale that gives you 0.5% is way better than necessary since 5% is
probably just fine.
Favid Miller wrote:
the Aeropoxy reps at Oshkosh, they were clearly amused by anyone bothering
to measure to the nearest tenth of a gram - off the record they indicated
that the tolerance levels for a proper cure are quite high.
I don't know who is correct, but Martin Armstrong, technical director of SP
Systems (Ampreg) told me, as stated in the data sheets, that 2% is the
maximum permissable error in mixing resin and hardener - any greater error
results in measurable and significant reductions in strength. He was very
concerned that some people get a bit "gung ho" about it. And 2% is only 0.1
gram of hardener in a 5g / 20 g mix. And a similar error in the opposite
direction neasuring the resin would result in a 4% total error.
Keith Hickling,
New Zealand.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
One thing about "strength" verses mix accuracy is the current Europa design does
not have us building many (or any?) strength-critical components.
Fred F.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161693#161693
Message 9
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| Subject: | Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
I have been using a standard triple beam balance for years. Very
mechanical and reliable, Ohaus makes a nice one with taring capability.
Just like they used in high school science class. Or by the stoners in
the Air Force barracks. This was the 70's
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Roger Lowe <rlowe@speedway.ca>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/30/2008 8:24:24 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs
Ratio Pump
>
>
> Hi, I've purchased a partially complete Europa a little over a year ago
and had to put it storage until my garage/workshop was re-vamped in order
to build the kit. It is now to a point to where I can start moving my kit
into it and start working on it.
>
> I have question about the different devices used to measure the epoxy and
wondering what most builders have done in the past. The cheapest of course
is to make the Europa mechanical balance which should be no problem (is it
quick and easy to use during a layup?) but I'm leaning towards either a
Ohaus / Sartorius digital scale with a resolution of 0.01gm (do I need that
much precision or can I get away with a lower cost 0.1gm unit?) OR a ratio
pump like a Glenmarc Portionator MBT-JR from A/S which is the most
expensive of the all the options (is it worth the cost for ease of use?).
>
> I live in Canada so I will be using Aeropoxy resin (100:27 by weight or 3
to 1 by volume).
>
> I would appreciable any feedback/experience that you have that would help
me make up my mind!
>
> Thanks, Roger
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Measuring - Balances vs Digital Scale vs Ratio |
Pump
Everyone,
Thanks for the overwhelming response to my query. From the response the majority
of you have used or are using a digital scale, so I will most likely go that
route. I really appreciate the extra time and effort for the responses you gave
as to the use of each apparatus and especially the digital scale. Looks like
I don't have to spend as much money as I thought. Very very helpful!
On a final note, I've sort of been lurking in the background in this user group
for a while now, trying to learn all I can before I take the first stab at making
the "wheel chock", I have to say that I'm always amazed at the wealth of
knowledge and experience that exists here. Much better than a text book!
Thanks again.
Roger
A252
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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