---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/29/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:55 AM - Re: Mod 72 Reamer (Richard Collings) 2. 01:40 PM - Re: Door Latches (Peter Timm) 3. 02:51 PM - Motor glider first flight (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 4. 03:42 PM - Re: Door Latches (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 5. 04:24 PM - A big Hoora for Europa (Robert Borger) 6. 04:24 PM - Re: Motor glider first flight (ALAN YERLY) 7. 05:52 PM - Re: Motor glider first flight (Kevin Klinefelter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:10 AM PST US From: "Richard Collings" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 Reamer Hi I don't know about the club reamer but you are welcome to borrow mine. I live in the midlands close to Daventry, contact me at r.collings@onetel.net Regards Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "flyingphil2" Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:13 PM Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 Reamer > > Hi, > > Does anyone know where the Europa Club 16.5mm hand reamer is for doing the > Mod 72 job? I'd like to join the queue to borrow it. > > Thanks, > > Phil > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > -- > 12:14 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:42 PM PST US From: "Peter Timm" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Latches ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: Europa-List: Door Latches > > Hi Guys, > > Thanks for the helpful comments on my previous post re: Rudder Cables! > > Regarding door latches...the build manual speaks of bending an offset into > the inner latch arm, DL03 but makes no mention of the distance of the > offset...What works? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch? > > Also, is there a clever locksmith among us who has added a keyed lock > which keeps the shoot bolts in place?..or provides security in some other > fashion? Any references to pictures would be much appreciated. > > Some time ago, there was concern about the window frames bulging and as I > recall, Cliff Shaw had a very clever albeit complex third (vertical I > believe) shoot bolt. Might not "bulging" be more easily handled by adding > a bid stiffening angle along the interior bottom edge of the window frame? > (Or is the bulging the result of failure to relieve cabin air pressure by > not venting the baggage bay bulkhead thence out thru the recommended drain > holes at the underside of the fuselage?) > > Fred > A194 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > Hi Fred the off-set of the door handle arm depends largely on your intentions re. securing the door-latch in flight. I chose to have knobs at the end of the arm which are secured with small rubber bungees attached to the side-wall of the cockpit below the closed door handle and looped over the knobs. This would require no off-set at all. I had already built a 1/4 " off-set in at the time. As to the bulging doors at high speed, I now believe that this is caused by pressurising the inside of the fuselage mostly by high pressure air entering through the opening left under the trailing edge with the flaps in the retracted position. I am going to attach small , inward curved fiberglass tabs to the root ends of the underside of the flaps to press against the openings in flight. I have an arrangement of 2" holes through the D-section in the baggage bay, but this has actually made matters worse, since it is the rear of the fuselage that gets pressurised.I will report on the results of this mod in due course. Right now Pemberton Airport is still closed under 18" of the white stuff. Our Annual Fly-In is set for July 5. Hope to see you then. Cheers, Peterss ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:28 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Motor glider first flight From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Dave DeFord and I have been flying our short winged mono-wheel Europa for over 6 years now, and have been working on interchangeable long wings for the past four years or so. We finally finished them and had our first flight yesterday morning. There was no drama, everything went well. We got in a total of four flights, two each. A few comments are as follows; 1) There is a slight tendency to roll right, most noticeable a 100+ kts. We are not sure yet what is causing this. 2) Very preliminary tests of the minimum sink rate were 400 fpm (at 50 kts indicated), later test indicated 350 fpm (at 52 kts indicated) after taping up the aileron and airbrake gaps. We had hoped for 250-280 fpm, so we need to look for ways to improve this. Fairings for the fixed-down outriggers are probably a good place to start. 3) The airbrakes are not as effective as the spoilers on the Katana Extreme we got our glider ratings in last September. The air brakes also cause a pitch/speed change, which causes some porpoising on landing if the brakes are used to modulate your approach/flare. The plane also tends to float a while in ground effect, even with full airbrakes on. 4) The mono-wheel twitchiness on the ground is greatly reduced by the bigger, heavier wings. 5) The long wings add 103 pounds to empty weight, compared to the short wings. 6) Stall speed is about 45 kts indicated, with and without airbrakes applied. As stall speed approaches, the plane just gets loose and the nose bobs up and down. No tendency to break, it just bobs up and down, complaining about it. We haven't tried accelerated stalls yet. Please note that these test are very preliminary. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD Pleasanton, CA ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:28 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door Latches From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Fred, We heard stories of doors bowing out in flight and added a latch in the middle of the door frame to prevent it. As it turns out, the newer doors are stiffer and do not need any additional latch in the middle. Even though we have the extra latches, we never use them. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD Mono-wheel XS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: Europa-List: Door Latches Hi Guys, Thanks for the helpful comments on my previous post re: Rudder Cables! Regarding door latches...the build manual speaks of bending an offset into the inner latch arm, DL03 but makes no mention of the distance of the offset...What works? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch? Also, is there a clever locksmith among us who has added a keyed lock which keeps the shoot bolts in place?..or provides security in some other fashion? Any references to pictures would be much appreciated. Some time ago, there was concern about the window frames bulging and as I recall, Cliff Shaw had a very clever albeit complex third (vertical I believe) shoot bolt. Might not "bulging" be more easily handled by adding a bid stiffening angle along the interior bottom edge of the window frame? (Or is the bulging the result of failure to relieve cabin air pressure by not venting the baggage bay bulkhead thence out thru the recommended drain holes at the underside of the fuselage?) Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:15 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Europa-List: A big Hoora for Europa Europaphiles, My replacement wingtip arrived today. The gents at Europa have gone out of their way to get it to me in very short order. I give a big Hoora! for Roger, John & Bud Yerly for their excellent service. Looks like I have my evenings work cut out for me now. Oshkosh 2008 or bust! Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, baggage bay in. Fuel system complte. Rotax and Airmaster installed. Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done. Compled the instrument panel install. Europa interior kit being installed. Installed windows. Working in - 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Mostly finishing these days. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:27 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Motor glider first flight Terry and Dave, Congratulations. In my flight testing of the glider wing you have about the right numbers on sink. The sink rate is affected by CG location, aircraft weight, prop, etc. It really varies plane to plane. The two tri gear I've helped finished can't get below 60 KIAS without starting a high sink rate, but they were nose heavy and fat aircraft (58.5 to 59 inch empty CG and 1050 lbs). The airbrakes do cause a decided nose down pitch moment and when deployed above about 85 KIAS they tend to vibrate. Honestly, the Europa Motorglider is an airplane with soaring capability rather than a glider. In checking out others, I emphasize use of the airbrakes early, and when approaching the flare lock them closed to prevent a possible nose down pitch close to the ground and insufficient altitude to correct. I have no experience with the mono motorglider, but the tri gear bleeds off airspeed even with an Airmaster prop at a 1800 rpm idle. Crossing the threshold above 70 KIAS is good for a long float though. The ailerons are a bit heavy and the slightest roll, easily corrected at low speed, requires more pressure to counter than I care to hold at higher speed. I will never have a set of glider wings built in this shop without aileron trim. I have adjusted the airbrakes to try to help a heavy wing but aileron trim is best. Assuming the ball is centered of course. Without a trim tab, I used the glider technique of adding a shim of filler under the elevator which re-contoured the lower surface. I added a 1/16 inch high by 1 inch wedge of filler to the lower surface trailing edge of the aileron needing to be raised, then flew, sanded the wedge of filler down a little and flew again and repeated until it balanced well. I then painted it and you can't even tell I contoured the surface, and it flew really square... I hope others with more experience can pipe up and give us all a little more insight. Again, Congrats Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Seaver (terrys) To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:09 PM Subject: Europa-List: Motor glider first flight > Dave DeFord and I have been flying our short winged mono-wheel Europa for over 6 years now, and have been working on interchangeable long wings for the past four years or so. We finally finished them and had our first flight yesterday morning. There was no drama, everything went well. We got in a total of four flights, two each. A few comments are as follows; 1) There is a slight tendency to roll right, most noticeable a 100+ kts. We are not sure yet what is causing this. 2) Very preliminary tests of the minimum sink rate were 400 fpm (at 50 kts indicated), later test indicated 350 fpm (at 52 kts indicated) after taping up the aileron and airbrake gaps. We had hoped for 250-280 fpm, so we need to look for ways to improve this. Fairings for the fixed-down outriggers are probably a good place to start. 3) The airbrakes are not as effective as the spoilers on the Katana Extreme we got our glider ratings in last September. The air brakes also cause a pitch/speed change, which causes some porpoising on landing if the brakes are used to modulate your approach/flare. The plane also tends to float a while in ground effect, even with full airbrakes on. 4) The mono-wheel twitchiness on the ground is greatly reduced by the bigger, heavier wings. 5) The long wings add 103 pounds to empty weight, compared to the short wings. 6) Stall speed is about 45 kts indicated, with and without airbrakes applied. As stall speed approaches, the plane just gets loose and the nose bobs up and down. No tendency to break, it just bobs up and down, complaining about it. We haven't tried accelerated stalls yet. Please note that these test are very preliminary. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD Pleasanton, CA http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:56 PM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: Motor glider first flight Terry & Dave, Congratulations! I imagine that your sink rate tests were with the engine off and the prop feathered? Did the CG change with the long wings installed? Best LD will be found near the aft limit. Have you sealed the gaps in the wing root? Glad to hear you guys are gliding... Kevin Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote: > > > Dave DeFord and I have been flying our short winged mono-wheel Europa > for over 6 years now, and have been working on interchangeable long > wings for the past four years or so. We finally finished them and had > our first flight yesterday morning. > There was no drama, everything went well. We got in a total of four > flights, two each. A few comments are as follows; > > 1) There is a slight tendency to roll right, most noticeable a 100+ kts. > We are not sure yet what is causing this. > > 2) Very preliminary tests of the minimum sink rate were 400 fpm (at 50 > kts indicated), later test indicated 350 fpm (at 52 kts indicated) after > taping up the aileron and airbrake gaps. We had hoped for 250-280 fpm, > so we need to look for ways to improve this. Fairings for the > fixed-down outriggers are probably a good place to start. > > 3) The airbrakes are not as effective as the spoilers on the Katana > Extreme we got our glider ratings in last September. The air brakes > also cause a pitch/speed change, which causes some porpoising on landing > if the brakes are used to modulate your approach/flare. The plane also > tends to float a while in ground effect, even with full airbrakes on. > > 4) The mono-wheel twitchiness on the ground is greatly reduced by the > bigger, heavier wings. > > 5) The long wings add 103 pounds to empty weight, compared to the short > wings. > > 6) Stall speed is about 45 kts indicated, with and without airbrakes > applied. As stall speed approaches, the plane just gets loose and the > nose bobs up and down. No tendency to break, it just bobs up and down, > complaining about it. We haven't tried accelerated stalls yet. > > Please note that these test are very preliminary. > > Regards, > Terry Seaver > A135 / N135TD > Pleasanton, CA > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.