Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:18 AM - DOTH Thur. Wycombe (Paddy Clarke)
2. 10:02 AM - Re: windmapper.com (Peter Jeffers)
3. 03:53 PM - Re: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point (milnera)
4. 05:03 PM - Re: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point (Robert C Harrison)
5. 05:56 PM - Re: Trike Main gear sockets (Michael Grass)
6. 07:27 PM - Re: Trike Main gear sockets ()
7. 11:50 PM - Re: Trike Main gear sockets (Robert C Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | DOTH Thur. Wycombe |
Hi Folks,
It looks as though we might get a break in the weather tomorrow
(Thursday), so how about a DOTH?. I suggest Wycombe Air Park - fairly
central, with a hard runway and good food. 1200ish, voucher in Flyer.
All the Best, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 2
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Hi David,
The web address for the Guernsey aero club is actually
www.guernseyaeroclub.com
The .co version doesn't compute.
Pete Jeffers
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Sent: 25 March 2008 18:25
Subject: Re: Europa-List: windmapper.com
Alan, xc weather is a magical site that decodes Metars for you in real time
for the whole of the UK and for the main European countries. It also offers
you contour maps of visibility, wind strength etc derived from those Metars.
All free. Easily accessed from www.guernseyaeroclub.co/weather.htm which has
all sorts of other useful preflight systems.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: windmapper.com
<alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>
> Hi David
>
> Thanks for that, I can use it whilst over here in the U.S. but tell me
about
> "XC Weather" I've never come across it?
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
> Sent: 20 March 2008 11:35
> To: Europa list
> Subject: Europa-List: windmapper.com
>
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> For our US friends: If you haven't already discovered it, look at
> windmapper.com It gives instant decodes of all airfield Metars, together
> with all sorts of extra brilliant features. I understand it has only
> recently started up, but its equivalent European service xc weather has
been
> a firm favourite here for some time. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 09:54
>
>
Checked by AVG.
Checked by AVG.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point |
Thanks Bob
I'll go for the same point then.
Did you do anything to the spar to allow it to slide better over the tufnol, eg
a strip of ptfe?
Alan
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 4
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| Subject: | Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point |
Hi! Again Alan
I missed your question but have picked up your thread from the System
notification.
The tufnel slide has a step in it to keep the spa aligned but also it is
a little rounded.
My best aid is the ramps I welded on the starboard socket since provided
the port tip is directed aft wards (therefore keeping the spa tight to
the starboard seat back) the port spa has to engage the socket since the
ramps automatically guide the spa tip home to the socket.
I think the pictures are still on John Cliffs web page
http://www.crix.org.uk ....under G-PTAG "Rigging aids" But they are
lousey photos!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert C Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: 24 March 2008 15:14
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point
Hi! Alan
I mused about this problem when I built my wing dolly and also since
having used it often. However when I rig with a helper, who initially
handles the tip, when I take over the tip end from him having engaged
the spar, I lift the tip trailing edge with one hand until he is out of
the way, so my thoughts are that the tip end C of G is in fact behind
the trailing edge (in fresh air!) when the root end of the wing is
supported by the spar.
In other words you can not make the dolly to fit the C of G. I plumped
for approx. mid chord for the pivot.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of milnera
Sent: 24 March 2008 12:41
Subject: Europa-List: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point
<alan_milner@totalise.co.uk>
I had hoped for an Easter weekend in Cornwall, but with snow, rain,
gales and generally miserable weather I thought I'd make up some wing
dolleys to aid self rigging.
I've pretty much copied the design used by many; essentially two layups
clamped around the tip, hinged on the underside and supported by a two
wheeled metal frame the pivots to allow the wing to move from vertical
to horizontal. The layups are curing now in this tropical heat so they
should be ready by next Easter :)
Anyone who has been using a similar design, can you suggest where to put
the pivot point for a trigear wing? I planned to balance it so it's
slightly leading-edge heavy. It would then fall to the vertical for
storage and when wheeling it around.
Any comments from experience most welcome. I haven't built the frame
yet.
Alan
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
--
Checked by AVG.
23/03/2008 18:50
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trike Main gear sockets |
Duncan,
I can not give you any ideas how the tracking will change once the plane is
loaded. I believe based on the geometric setup, the gear will flex out
(getting wider) and will toe in. I am not sure yet how I will be able to
measure it but definatly will try once the plane is loaded but this will
still take quite some time. This summer I hope I get the wings closed and
all liftpins, crossbar and the flap drive tube in.
Regards
Michael Grass
A266 Trigear Detroit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
> <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Michael,
> Any thoughts (or measurements) as to how the tracking changes once the
> weight of the aircraft is placed on the legs (that have been set-up to
> zero toe-in/toe-out)?
>
> Duncan McF.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Grass" <m.grass@comcast.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>
>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> The complaint I have is to myself that I do not find the time to do more
>> building. I enjoy time spend on my plane. The point I tried to make is
>> that
>> the builder spend quite some time on the web for the main gear sockets.
>> Even without the top on you spend a lot time bending over.
>> Building should be fun. It is more fun if you work smart and try to have
>> as
>> easy access as possible. To me, time spend building is therapy. What you
>> don't want is therapy after time spend building so work smart and enjoy
>> the
>> quality time spend with your project.
>>
>> What I did, I used bondo and stuck 5 reference points to the garage
>> floor. 3
>> along the centerline of the fuselage. One in the front, one in the center
>> of
>> the main gear legs and one in the center under the fin. all lined up and
>> on
>> the exact same height and in level along a line.
>>
>> Then I bonded with bondo the endpoints of the main gear legs to the
>> floor.
>> Again made sure with Pythagoras help that it was square to the center
>> line
>> and on the same
>> level.
>>
>> After that I rolled my fuselage cradle over those points and used M12
>> threaded rod as a height adjustment to level the fuselage over my 3
>> reference points along the center line and clamped the main gear legs
>> into
>> position.
>>
>> This kept the fuselage the whole time igid and secured in place.
>>
>> I kept this setup in place till the top fuselage was bonded on. Nothing
>> moved and all is plum, squared and level.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Michael Grass
>> A266 Trigear, Detroit
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:36 AM
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>>
>>
>>>
>>> We cuss a lot.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Rob Housman
>>> Irvine, CA
>>> Europa XS Tri-Gear
>>> A070
>>> Airframe complete
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Grass
>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:14 AM
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig,
>>>
>>> My web took some 80h to complete without thhe top on. I can not imagine
>>> how
>>> peope do this with the top and no frequent vistits to the chiropractor.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Michael Grass
>>>
>>> A266, 914, Woodcomp prop,
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "raggi6771" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
>>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:15 AM
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets before
>>>> you bonded the top on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trike Main gear sockets |
Hi Michael
"I am not sure yet how I will be able to measure it but definitely will
try once the plane is loaded"
A good way to measure is put a straight edge against the front or back of
both tires, and measure the angle of rims to that. You need to make or
borrow a set of greased plates to accurate measure though. Lets say you
had a bit of toe in, and rolled the plane forward, the wheels will want to
come together and will twist and give you a bit more toe in, roll
backwards and the reverse will happen. Setting wheels on greased plates,
just unweight, then weight plane a little a few times and you can see that
the tires are happy not stressing the gear legs. Just use a little TRIG to
figure out angles.
As a matter of fact, why don't you bring stuff to next Europa meet, and
measure tri gears with no one in plane, then load 2 people inside plane
and 1 person on each wing root and see where those planes come in at. An
added bonus for those who insist on flying an "unconventional gear"
aircraft, would be to not only measure light and heavy toe in/out and
camber, but once the "sweet" aircraft are discovered that don't eat up
tires and wear them even, measure those aircraft with wheels off the
ground so future "unconventional gear" builders or retrofitters can tweak
things in their favor.
I changed out welded steel axles on my 1948 Cessna 170 ragwing for solid
aluminium ski axles. I could not obtain any old part number shims, so I
just TRIGed what I needed, then wandered through the FBOs wheel shim stock
and picked what was close to what was needed, and hand lapped to exact
what I needed. Worked perfect first time. This was after 3 tries, 1 by IA
who changed axles, and 2 by FBO who was not too swift at TRIG. Handling of
a traditional taildragger with toe in is a real challenge!
BTW has nothing to do with toe in or out, but I used the same straight
edge I used to TRIG my C-170 wheel alignment to make sure my undercarriage
mounting frame had my main monowheel tracking straight. I just offered it
up to brake rotor and made sure the offset was the same at the wheel as it
was at the aft fuse.
A straight ladder and carpenters square should work, I used 4 old saw
blades for grease plates I had laying around, just set the teeth to 1 side
so as not to bind.
Ron Parigoris
Message 7
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| Subject: | Trike Main gear sockets |
Hi! Michael
IMHO there has been insufficient attention paid to this question of
loaded toe in. G-PTAG is too heavy on tyre wear and when winched
backwards up the trailer ramps the reverse toe is really excessive. I
last used washing up soap on the ramps which shows the tyre scrubbing
instead of deforming.
It almost calls for a control system at the top of the gear legs to be
able to "vernier" the toe setting?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Grass
Sent: 27 March 2008 00:52
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
Duncan,
I can not give you any ideas how the tracking will change once the plane
is
loaded. I believe based on the geometric setup, the gear will flex out
(getting wider) and will toe in. I am not sure yet how I will be able to
measure it but definatly will try once the plane is loaded but this will
still take quite some time. This summer I hope I get the wings closed
and
all liftpins, crossbar and the flap drive tube in.
Regards
Michael Grass
A266 Trigear Detroit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
> <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Michael,
> Any thoughts (or measurements) as to how the tracking changes once the
> weight of the aircraft is placed on the legs (that have been set-up to
> zero toe-in/toe-out)?
>
> Duncan McF.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Grass" <m.grass@comcast.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>
>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> The complaint I have is to myself that I do not find the time to do
more
>> building. I enjoy time spend on my plane. The point I tried to make
is
>> that
>> the builder spend quite some time on the web for the main gear
sockets.
>> Even without the top on you spend a lot time bending over.
>> Building should be fun. It is more fun if you work smart and try to
have
>> as
>> easy access as possible. To me, time spend building is therapy. What
you
>> don't want is therapy after time spend building so work smart and
enjoy
>> the
>> quality time spend with your project.
>>
>> What I did, I used bondo and stuck 5 reference points to the garage
>> floor. 3
>> along the centerline of the fuselage. One in the front, one in the
center
>> of
>> the main gear legs and one in the center under the fin. all lined up
and
>> on
>> the exact same height and in level along a line.
>>
>> Then I bonded with bondo the endpoints of the main gear legs to the
>> floor.
>> Again made sure with Pythagoras help that it was square to the center
>> line
>> and on the same
>> level.
>>
>> After that I rolled my fuselage cradle over those points and used M12
>> threaded rod as a height adjustment to level the fuselage over my 3
>> reference points along the center line and clamped the main gear legs
>> into
>> position.
>>
>> This kept the fuselage the whole time igid and secured in place.
>>
>> I kept this setup in place till the top fuselage was bonded on.
Nothing
>> moved and all is plum, squared and level.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Michael Grass
>> A266 Trigear, Detroit
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:36 AM
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>>
>>
<rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>>>
>>> We cuss a lot.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Rob Housman
>>> Irvine, CA
>>> Europa XS Tri-Gear
>>> A070
>>> Airframe complete
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Grass
>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:14 AM
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>>>
<m.grass@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Craig,
>>>
>>> My web took some 80h to complete without thhe top on. I can not
imagine
>>> how
>>> peope do this with the top and no frequent vistits to the
chiropractor.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Michael Grass
>>>
>>> A266, 914, Woodcomp prop,
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "raggi6771" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
>>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:15 AM
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets
>>>
>>>
<craigb@onthenet.com.au>
>>>>
>>>> Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets
before
>>>> you bonded the top on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG.
25/03/2008 19:17
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