---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/27/08: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:08 AM - Re: Trike Main gear sockets (Gary Leinberger) 2. 10:59 AM - Re: Trike Main gear sockets (Karl Heindl) 3. 01:52 PM - Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication () 4. 02:07 PM - technical MayDay (Fergus Kyle) 5. 02:25 PM - Re: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication (craig bastin) 6. 02:25 PM - Re: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication (josok) 7. 02:29 PM - Re: Trike Main gear sockets (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 8. 02:31 PM - Re: technical MayDay (josok) 9. 02:46 PM - Re: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication () 10. 02:46 PM - Technical MayDay (Fergus Kyle) 11. 02:49 PM - Re: technical MayDay () 12. 02:54 PM - Re: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point (karelvranken) 13. 02:54 PM - Re: technical MayDay (Jerry Rehn) 14. 05:18 PM - Re: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication (Graham Singleton) 15. 05:41 PM - Re: technical MayDay (Gilles Thesee) 16. 05:42 PM - Re: Wing Dolly (Graham Singleton) 17. 05:46 PM - Re: Wing Dolly (Graham Singleton) 18. 06:11 PM - Re: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:21 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets From: "Gary Leinberger" I spent a great deal of time trying to engineer a vernier type setting for adjusting the toe in - but after discussing it with several people was told it works out - normally - my fear is when I do it I may not get it just right and have tracking problems - maybe the way to adjust it is to use creative landings - a friend of mine (to be un-named) managed to bend his - of course this would only work in one direction - :-) - Oin the interest of getting this thing done prior to receiving my first social security check I am going to go with the manueal and measure about fifty times - Gary Leinberger A237 Slow and Unsteady -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:46 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets --> Hi! Michael IMHO there has been insufficient attention paid to this question of loaded toe in. G-PTAG is too heavy on tyre wear and when winched backwards up the trailer ramps the reverse toe is really excessive. I last used washing up soap on the ramps which shows the tyre scrubbing instead of deforming. It almost calls for a control system at the top of the gear legs to be able to "vernier" the toe setting? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grass Sent: 27 March 2008 00:52 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets Duncan, I can not give you any ideas how the tracking will change once the plane is loaded. I believe based on the geometric setup, the gear will flex out (getting wider) and will toe in. I am not sure yet how I will be able to measure it but definatly will try once the plane is loaded but this will still take quite some time. This summer I hope I get the wings closed and all liftpins, crossbar and the flap drive tube in. Regards Michael Grass A266 Trigear Detroit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets > > > Michael, > Any thoughts (or measurements) as to how the tracking changes once the > weight of the aircraft is placed on the legs (that have been set-up to > zero toe-in/toe-out)? > > Duncan McF. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Grass" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets > > >> Hi Rob, >> >> The complaint I have is to myself that I do not find the time to do more >> building. I enjoy time spend on my plane. The point I tried to make is >> that >> the builder spend quite some time on the web for the main gear sockets. >> Even without the top on you spend a lot time bending over. >> Building should be fun. It is more fun if you work smart and try to have >> as >> easy access as possible. To me, time spend building is therapy. What you >> don't want is therapy after time spend building so work smart and enjoy >> the >> quality time spend with your project. >> >> What I did, I used bondo and stuck 5 reference points to the garage >> floor. 3 >> along the centerline of the fuselage. One in the front, one in the center >> of >> the main gear legs and one in the center under the fin. all lined up and >> on >> the exact same height and in level along a line. >> >> Then I bonded with bondo the endpoints of the main gear legs to the >> floor. >> Again made sure with Pythagoras help that it was square to the center >> line >> and on the same >> level. >> >> After that I rolled my fuselage cradle over those points and used M12 >> threaded rod as a height adjustment to level the fuselage over my 3 >> reference points along the center line and clamped the main gear legs >> into >> position. >> >> This kept the fuselage the whole time igid and secured in place. >> >> I kept this setup in place till the top fuselage was bonded on. Nothing >> moved and all is plum, squared and level. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> Michael Grass >> A266 Trigear, Detroit >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rob Housman" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:36 AM >> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets >> >> >>> >>> We cuss a lot. >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Rob Housman >>> Irvine, CA >>> Europa XS Tri-Gear >>> A070 >>> Airframe complete >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael >>> Grass >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:14 AM >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets >>> >>> >>> Craig, >>> >>> My web took some 80h to complete without thhe top on. I can not imagine >>> how >>> peope do this with the top and no frequent vistits to the chiropractor. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Michael Grass >>> >>> A266, 914, Woodcomp prop, >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "raggi6771" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:15 AM >>> Subject: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets before >>>> you bonded the top on. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- Checked by AVG. 25/03/2008 19:17 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:37 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets Gary, I think you are right, but then every Europa is a little different. I follo wed the manual very carefully, and have not experienced any real problems, not with tracking anyway. The tire wear is on the outer edge, and when the profile has worn off I reverse the tires to wear the other side. I may do t his a couple more times and in theory the tires will actually last longer t han with symmetric wear. The original tires didn't last very long as the rubber was much softer and there is no steel re-enforcement. I now have Michelins. Karl
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear soc kets> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:03:50 -0400> From: Gary.Leinberger@millersv ille.edu> To: europa-list@matronics.com> > --> Europa-List message posted b y: "Gary Leinberger" > > I spent a great deal of time trying to engineer a vernier type setting> for adjusting the t oe in - but after discussing it with several people> was told it works out - normally - my fear is when I do it I may not get> it just right and have tracking problems - maybe the way to adjust it is> to use creative landings - a friend of mine (to be un-named) managed to> bend his - of course this would only work in one direction - :-) - > > Oin the interest of getting th is thing done prior to receiving my first> social security check I am going to go with the manueal and measure> about fifty times - > > > Gary Leinber ger > A237 > Slow and Unsteady > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner- europa-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronic s.com] On Behalf Of Robert C> Harrison> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:46 AM> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main ge > > Hi! Michael> IMHO there has been insufficient a ttention paid to this question of> loaded toe in. G-PTAG is too heavy on ty re wear and when winched> backwards up the trailer ramps the reverse toe is really excessive. I> last used washing up soap on the ramps which shows th e tyre scrubbing> instead of deforming.> It almost calls for a control syst em at the top of the gear legs to be> able to "vernier" the toe setting?> R egards> Bob Harrison G-PTAG> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-euro pa-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.co m] On Behalf Of Michael> Grass> Sent: 27 March 2008 00:52> To: europa-list@ matronics.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets> > --> Eur opa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" > > Duncan ,> > I can not give you any ideas how the tracking will change once the pla ne> is loaded. I believe based on the geometric setup, the gear will flex> out (getting wider) and will toe in. I am not sure yet how I will be> able to> > measure it but definatly will try once the plane is loaded but this w ill> > still take quite some time. This summer I hope I get the wings close d> and all liftpins, crossbar and the flap drive tube in.> > Regards> > Mic hael Grass> A266 Trigear Detroit> ----- Original Message -----> From: "Dunc an & Ami McFadyean" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:46 PM> Subject: Re: Europa-List: & Ami McFadyean" > > > >> > Michael,> > Any thoughts (or measurements) as to how the tracking changes once the> > > wei ght of the aircraft is placed on the legs (that have been set-up to> > > ze ro toe-in/toe-out)?> >> > Duncan McF.> > ----- Original Message ----- > > F rom: "Michael Grass" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:33 AM> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tr ike Main gear sockets> >> >> >> Hi Rob,> >>> >> The complaint I have is to myself that I do not find the time to do> more> >> building. I enjoy time s pend on my plane. The point I tried to make> is > >> that> >> the builder s pend quite some time on the web for the main gear> sockets.> >> Even withou t the top on you spend a lot time bending over.> >> Building should be fun. It is more fun if you work smart and try to> have > >> as> >> easy access as possible. To me, time spend building is therapy. What> you> >> don't wan t is therapy after time spend building so work smart and> enjoy > >> the> > > quality time spend with your project.> >>> >> What I did, I used bondo an d stuck 5 reference points to the garage > >> floor. 3> >> along the center line of the fuselage. One in the front, one in the> center > >> of> >> the main gear legs and one in the center under the fin. all lined up> and > >> on> >> the exact same height and in level along a line.> >>> >> Then I bond ed with bondo the endpoints of the main gear legs to the > >> floor.> >> Ag ain made sure with Pythagoras help that it was square to the center> > >> l ine> >> and on the same> >> level.> >>> >> After that I rolled my fuselage cradle over those points and used M12> >> threaded rod as a height adjustme nt to level the fuselage over my 3> >> reference points along the center li ne and clamped the main gear legs> > >> into> >> position.> >>> >> This kep t the fuselage the whole time igid and secured in place.> >>> >> I kept thi s setup in place till the top fuselage was bonded on.> Nothing> >> moved an d all is plum, squared and level.> >>> >>> >>> >> Regards> >>> >>> >> Micha el Grass> >> A266 Trigear, Detroit> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rob Housman" > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:36 AM> >> Subject: RE: Europa-List Rob Housman"> > >>>> >>> We cuss a lot.> >>>> >>>> >>> Best regards,> >>>> >>> Rob Housman> >>> Irvine, CA> >>> Europa XS Tri-Gea r> >>> A070> >>> Airframe complete> >>>> >>> -----Original Message-----> >> > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> >>> [mailto:owner-europa-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael> > >>> Grass> >>> Sent: Monda y, March 24, 2008 6:14 AM> >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com> >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets> >>>> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass"> > >>>> >>> Craig,> >>>> >> > My web took some 80h to complete without thhe top on. I can not> imagine> >>> how> >>> peope do this with the top and no frequent vistits to the> ch iropractor.> >>>> >>> Regards> >>>> >>> Michael Grass> >>>> >>> A266, 914, Woodcomp prop,> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "raggi677 1" > >>> To: > >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:15 AM> >>> Subject: Europa-List: Trike Main gear raigb@onthenet.com.au>> >>>>> >>>> Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets> before> >>>> you bonded the top on.> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 25/03/2008 19:1 ======> > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:47 PM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication Those who have gone before, Currently attempting to fabricate the forward shoot bolt push rods (10mm Al rod with slots, flats and cross drilled holes). Pride is keeping me from taking it to a machine shop and having done quickly and 'properly'. I am curious as to how others have cut the slots. Hack saw is too narrow with insufficient control. Belt sander inside the hack saw slit is proving much to slow in material removal. Thinking about rotary abrasive wheel... Any creative suggestions for making the slot other than a vertical mill? Thanks in advance! Cleve Lee A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300 Currently in Market Harborough UK ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:40 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: technical MayDay Hello, I'm at the wiring stage and have a fascinating white cable with 5 marvellous tiny wires emanating therefrom. There's a pair of whites, a white/green, white/red and white/blue. I just know it's the cable from the pitch trim motor, 'way back there in the tail. The trouble is I've lost the circuit diagram - or let's say it's in safe-keeping. I could stumble around and screw up the carefully-organized central position in trying to divine the proper wiring, or I could make a clumsy appeal for a copy from another builder. I have chosen the latter...................please. Just so I don't get all 900 of them kindly advise here first and will confirm the need. There's the promise of a pint of the best for the treasured winner - the promise. Regards, Ferg VE3LVO@rac.ca ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:22 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication if you have the slot already there, then would suggest, about a 2mm drill bit and drill a series of holes along the slot to open it up enough to get a thin file in there, if you get one with teeth on the side it may make life easier, alternatively an alloy or stainless blade for a jigsaw would work too, but harder to control than a file craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of clevelee@earthlink.net Sent: Friday, 28 March 2008 6:51 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication Those who have gone before, Currently attempting to fabricate the forward shoot bolt push rods (10mm Al rod with slots, flats and cross drilled holes). Pride is keeping me from taking it to a machine shop and having done quickly and 'properly'. I am curious as to how others have cut the slots. Hack saw is too narrow with insufficient control. Belt sander inside the hack saw slit is proving much to slow in material removal. Thinking about rotary abrasive wheel... Any creative suggestions for making the slot other than a vertical mill? Thanks in advance! Cleve Lee A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300 Currently in Market Harborough UK Checked by AVG. 6:50 PM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication From: "josok" Hi Cleve, You will get a lot of answers on this one. first of all: There is an update in the manual, slots are no longer advised, it's flattened ends now. But i am still proud of the hand filing i did. Lots of sweat and some blisters, but kind of nice to do. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:36 PM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets Michael, I was curious because tire wear on the trigear seems to be quite high. If the tracking changes greatly under load it would suggest that setting up initially with some compensatory toe-in/out would be beneficial. No good to you by then! Reds., Duncan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Grass" Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:52 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets > > Duncan, > > I can not give you any ideas how the tracking will change once the plane > is loaded. I believe based on the geometric setup, the gear will flex out > (getting wider) and will toe in. I am not sure yet how I will be able to > measure it but definatly will try once the plane is loaded but this will > still take quite some time. This summer I hope I get the wings closed and > all liftpins, crossbar and the flap drive tube in. > > Regards > > Michael Grass > A266 Trigear Detroit > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets > > >> >> >> Michael, >> Any thoughts (or measurements) as to how the tracking changes once the >> weight of the aircraft is placed on the legs (that have been set-up to >> zero toe-in/toe-out)? >> >> Duncan McF. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael Grass" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:33 AM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets >> >> >>> Hi Rob, >>> >>> The complaint I have is to myself that I do not find the time to do more >>> building. I enjoy time spend on my plane. The point I tried to make is >>> that >>> the builder spend quite some time on the web for the main gear sockets. >>> Even without the top on you spend a lot time bending over. >>> Building should be fun. It is more fun if you work smart and try to have >>> as >>> easy access as possible. To me, time spend building is therapy. What you >>> don't want is therapy after time spend building so work smart and enjoy >>> the >>> quality time spend with your project. >>> >>> What I did, I used bondo and stuck 5 reference points to the garage >>> floor. 3 >>> along the centerline of the fuselage. One in the front, one in the >>> center of >>> the main gear legs and one in the center under the fin. all lined up and >>> on >>> the exact same height and in level along a line. >>> >>> Then I bonded with bondo the endpoints of the main gear legs to the >>> floor. >>> Again made sure with Pythagoras help that it was square to the center >>> line >>> and on the same >>> level. >>> >>> After that I rolled my fuselage cradle over those points and used M12 >>> threaded rod as a height adjustment to level the fuselage over my 3 >>> reference points along the center line and clamped the main gear legs >>> into >>> position. >>> >>> This kept the fuselage the whole time igid and secured in place. >>> >>> I kept this setup in place till the top fuselage was bonded on. Nothing >>> moved and all is plum, squared and level. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> Michael Grass >>> A266 Trigear, Detroit >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rob Housman" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:36 AM >>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets >>> >>> >>>> >>>> We cuss a lot. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Rob Housman >>>> Irvine, CA >>>> Europa XS Tri-Gear >>>> A070 >>>> Airframe complete >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael >>>> Grass >>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:14 AM >>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Craig, >>>> >>>> My web took some 80h to complete without thhe top on. I can not imagine >>>> how >>>> peope do this with the top and no frequent vistits to the chiropractor. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Michael Grass >>>> >>>> A266, 914, Woodcomp prop, >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "raggi6771" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:15 AM >>>> Subject: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets before >>>>> you bonded the top on. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: technical MayDay From: "josok" I will take the pint. It's so simple, you don't need a diagram. Connect the white wires to the white wires of the trim switch. Connect the other wires to the same colors on the trim indicator. That leaves you with some black and red wires on the trim switch and on the indicator. Connect the red ones to your 1 A fuse or breaker, and the black ones to ground. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication From: Hi Cleve "I am curious as to how others have cut the slots" I think the Factory is now providing flat stock as used in the shoulder with modification, take a look at the latest install manual online, and of shoulder width mod instructions. I have in mine the poor quality round rods. I have 2 milling machines, but instead of milling out a slot that will be not very strong, I milled a flat on each side of the rod, and riveted 2 pieces of flat 2024 aluminium on each side of the rod. One place to get material is www.mcmaster.com or Aircraft Spruce. 6061T6 should work, easier to cut and machine, I had some 2024 laying around. Thx. for the tip Nev! I used a mill, did it incline so there was a nice radius, you could in short order do it by filing. Sorry I don't have any pictures. To visualize, take your pinky and put a 2" long Popsicle stick on the top of your pinky overlapping your pinky by 1", then put another 2" stick on the bottom of your pinky. The 1" sticking out would of course be your fork! Don't make a sharp 90 degree corner where flat transitions to rod, it will be a stress riser, make it 1/8" radius or larger. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:28 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Technical MayDay Jos Okhuijsen came through in no time at all with the answer to my quest. Please disregard the topic. Thanks, Jos Ferg ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: technical MayDay From: Hi Ferg "or I could make a clumsy appeal for a copy from another builder" Try from the horses mouth: http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACinfo/downloadpg.html Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:07 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point Bob, Your lousey photos are non figuratif artefacts and it doesn't matter if we don't understand what you mean. Best regards, Karel Vranken. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert C Harrison" Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:00 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point > > > Hi! Again Alan > I missed your question but have picked up your thread from the System > notification. > The tufnel slide has a step in it to keep the spa aligned but also it is > a little rounded. > My best aid is the ramps I welded on the starboard socket since provided > the port tip is directed aft wards (therefore keeping the spa tight to > the starboard seat back) the port spa has to engage the socket since the > ramps automatically guide the spa tip home to the socket. > I think the pictures are still on John Cliffs web page > http://www.crix.org.uk ....under G-PTAG "Rigging aids" But they are > lousey photos! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert C Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk] > Sent: 24 March 2008 15:14 > To: 'europa-list@matronics.com' > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point > > Hi! Alan > I mused about this problem when I built my wing dolly and also since > having used it often. However when I rig with a helper, who initially > handles the tip, when I take over the tip end from him having engaged > the spar, I lift the tip trailing edge with one hand until he is out of > the way, so my thoughts are that the tip end C of G is in fact behind > the trailing edge (in fresh air!) when the root end of the wing is > supported by the spar. > In other words you can not make the dolly to fit the C of G. I plumped > for approx. mid chord for the pivot. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of milnera > Sent: 24 March 2008 12:41 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Wing dolley - where to put the pivot point > > > > I had hoped for an Easter weekend in Cornwall, but with snow, rain, > gales and generally miserable weather I thought I'd make up some wing > dolleys to aid self rigging. > > I've pretty much copied the design used by many; essentially two layups > clamped around the tip, hinged on the underside and supported by a two > wheeled metal frame the pivots to allow the wing to move from vertical > to horizontal. The layups are curing now in this tropical heat so they > should be ready by next Easter :) > > Anyone who has been using a similar design, can you suggest where to put > the pivot point for a trigear wing? I planned to balance it so it's > slightly leading-edge heavy. It would then fall to the vertical for > storage and when wheeling it around. > > Any comments from experience most welcome. I haven't built the frame > yet. > > Alan > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 23/03/2008 18:50 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:16 PM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: RE: Europa-List: technical MayDay Ferg It's been a while so I pulled out the diagram and it shows the orange (red?), green and blue going to the position trim indicator and the two whites to the trim switch. You can hook it up and use a 9 volt battery to see if all is working. Then change wires to get things moving the directions you want if need be. If you have a basic Rotax electrical wiring diagram it is often illustrated there and you can see where to make the power connections as well. Good luck. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: Europa-List: technical MayDay Hello, I'm at the wiring stage and have a fascinating white cable with 5 marvellous tiny wires emanating therefrom. There's a pair of whites, a white/green, white/red and white/blue. I just know it's the cable from the pitch trim motor, 'way back there in the tail. The trouble is I've lost the circuit diagram - or let's say it's in safe-keeping. I could stumble around and screw up the carefully-organized central position in trying to divine the proper wiring, or I could make a clumsy appeal for a copy from another builder. I have chosen the latter...................please. Just so I don't get all 900 of them kindly advise here first and will confirm the need. There's the promise of a pint of the best for the treasured winner - the promise. Regards, Ferg VE3LVO@rac.ca ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:30 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication Cleve attached is a pik of Paul McAllister's door push rod. We did those by hand one Wisconsin winter Graham rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > > Hi Cleve > > Sorry I don't have any pictures. > > To visualize, take your pinky and put a 2" long Popsicle stick on the top > of your pinky overlapping your pinky by 1", > Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:47 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: technical MayDay Fergus Kyle a crit : > > Hello, > I'm at the wiring stage and have a fascinating white cable with 5 > marvellous tiny wires emanating therefrom. There's a pair of whites, a > white/green, white/red and white/blue. I just know it's the cable from the > pitch trim motor, 'way back there in the tail. > The trouble is I've lost the circuit diagram - or let's say it's in > safe-keeping. I could stumble around and screw up the carefully-organized > central position in trying to divine the proper wiring, or I could make a > clumsy appeal for a copy from another builder. Fergus, Would this qualify for the pin ? http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsT2andT3.pdf Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:23 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Dolly William, Karel Andreas Doblhoff from Vienna did it a long time ago, here are some piks. Very elegant solution. Graham William Daniell wrote: > Excellent, thanks Will > > > > - ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:58 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Dolly William more pix Graham William Daniell wrote: > Excellent, thanks Will > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Iddon > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2007 08:59 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Europa-List: Wing Dolly > > > > Pics attached. > > > > Regards. > > > > Richard Iddon. G-RIXS > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William > Daniell > *Sent:* 23 May 2007 13:14 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: trailer wing support profile. > > > > Can anyone send me a design for a self rig dollyor tell me where to get > one please? > > Will > > > > > > > 22/05/2007 15:49 > > > 22/05/2007 15:49 > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door shoot bolt pushrod fabrication From: Fred Klein Cleve, With only a minimal tool inventory, I did some head-scratching, then I marked the slot w/ a sharpie pen, drilled a hole at the end of the slot, and proceeded to hacksaw TWO cuts which left a sliver at the center of the slot which falls away. A few minutes w/ a small flat file dressed it up fine. It was much easier than I thought it would be. Happily, that was the case because after trial fitting, I was not getting the shoot bolt penetration I needed as my forward rods were too short, and ended up making a second set. Good luck, Fred On Thursday, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:50 US/Pacific, wrote: > Those who have gone before, > - > Currently attempting to fabricate the forward shoot bolt push rods > (10mm Al rod with slots, flats and cross drilled holes).- Pride is > keeping me from taking it to a machine shop and having done quickly > and 'properly'.-- > - > I am curious as to how others have cut the slots. Hack saw is too > narrow with insufficient control.- Belt sander inside the hack saw > slit is proving much to slow in material removal.- Thinking about > rotary abrasive wheel...----Any creative suggestions for making t he > slot other than a vertical mill? > - > Thanks in advance! > - > Cleve Lee > A198 Mono XS- Jabiru 3300 > Currently in Market Harborough UK > - > - > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.