Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:44 AM - Mod 72 Debacle (flyingphil2)
2. 11:36 AM - Re: tire wear (EMAproducts@aol.com)
3. 12:02 PM - Re: Mod 72 Debacle (Tim Ward)
4. 12:24 PM - Re: Mod 72 Debacle (Robert C Harrison)
5. 12:38 PM - Re: Mod 72 Debacle (Europa List)
6. 01:47 PM - Re: Mod 72 Debacle (William Daniell)
7. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: tire wear (Karl Heindl)
8. 04:19 PM - Re: AZ Europa Owners (Paul Boulet)
9. 04:28 PM - Re: Mod 72 Debacle (ALAN YERLY)
10. 07:09 PM - Re: AZ Europa Owners (Steve Hagar)
11. 07:30 PM - Re: Mod 72 Debacle (Steve Hagar)
12. 07:50 PM - Re: AZ Europa Owners (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
13. 09:16 PM - Re: AZ Europa Owners (Steve Hagar)
Message 1
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Suppose that you were doing Mod 72 and it was going to be really easy as you you
are still building and haven't got the engine attached.
So, suppose that you have borrowed the club reamer and opened up the tubes in the
undercarriage frame and cleaned them out. The unpainted inserts could then
be pushed in by hand until only about 1cm was showing.
Suppose then that you were rather enthusiastic with the etch primer and after it
had dried, tried to push the inserts in. Having got them half way in with a
hammer, what would you do if they really really didn't want to go any further
in? I mean hitting them with a hammer via a block of wood is just splitting
the wood.
What would you do? I doubt they are going to come out. Should I hit them harder,
heat the frame, pour acetone down to remove the etch primer or just wait for
the ACF 50 to work it's way through and try again?
Any thoughts would be more than appreciated,
Thanks,
Phil
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
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Gentlemen, Years ago I was chief flight instructor for a school with over 30
light aircraft. We used nothing but retreads as the wear was much better,
evidently they use a harder tread material than the "new" tires. I have
continued to this day using nothing but retreads.
Elbie Mendenhall
EM aviation
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 72 Debacle |
Phil,
I would cut them. I know of another builder having the same problem and that
is the best solution.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
CHRISTCHURCH 8052
NEW ZEALAND
Ph :64 03 3515166
Mob: 021 0640221
email:
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller@lolacars.com>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:39 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 Debacle
>
> Suppose that you were doing Mod 72 and it was going to be really easy as
> you you are still building and haven't got the engine attached.
>
> So, suppose that you have borrowed the club reamer and opened up the tubes
> in the undercarriage frame and cleaned them out. The unpainted inserts
> could then be pushed in by hand until only about 1cm was showing.
>
> Suppose then that you were rather enthusiastic with the etch primer and
> after it had dried, tried to push the inserts in. Having got them half
> way in with a hammer, what would you do if they really really didn't want
> to go any further in? I mean hitting them with a hammer via a block of
> wood is just splitting the wood.
>
> What would you do? I doubt they are going to come out. Should I hit them
> harder, heat the frame, pour acetone down to remove the etch primer or
> just wait for the ACF 50 to work it's way through and try again?
>
> Any thoughts would be more than appreciated,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
Message 4
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Hi! Phil
I would make a "spigot type anvil" of solid bar to fit the inner tube
and sit on the outer end of the tube you are driving in. Make the spigot
end as long as the tubes you are driving then try driving your offending
tube home.
If however you still fail then heat to "cherry red" the spigot end which
goes into the assembly, allow it to transfer some heat and try again.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyingphil2
Sent: 03 April 2008 18:40
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 Debacle
Suppose that you were doing Mod 72 and it was going to be really easy as
you you are still building and haven't got the engine attached.
So, suppose that you have borrowed the club reamer and opened up the
tubes in the undercarriage frame and cleaned them out. The unpainted
inserts could then be pushed in by hand until only about 1cm was
showing.
Suppose then that you were rather enthusiastic with the etch primer and
after it had dried, tried to push the inserts in. Having got them half
way in with a hammer, what would you do if they really really didn't
want to go any further in? I mean hitting them with a hammer via a
block of wood is just splitting the wood.
What would you do? I doubt they are going to come out. Should I hit
them harder, heat the frame, pour acetone down to remove the etch primer
or just wait for the ACF 50 to work it's way through and try again?
Any thoughts would be more than appreciated,
Thanks,
Phil
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
--
Checked by AVG.
02/04/2008 16:14
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 72 Debacle |
Please wait for more responses before cutting them off. There must be a way
of getting them out without damaging the mounting frame. I have yet to
insert mine, but wondered if what you describe was a possibility. It seems
that cutting them half off would defeat the whole purpose of inserting them.
Wait for others to reply, but if none do, I would put vice grips on the
insert and heat the frame with a hair dryer while trying to twist-tap them
out. If that were to fail, I would drill them with a somewhat smaller drill
than their OD. Either way, new inserts would have to be purchased. Someone
else must have had this problem. Wait to find out what they did.
Vaughn
N914VA, Stalled, but not in a spin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 Debacle
>
> Phil,
> I would cut them. I know of another builder having the same problem and
> that is the best solution.
> Cheers,
> Tim
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> Fendalton,
> CHRISTCHURCH 8052
> NEW ZEALAND
>
> Ph :64 03 3515166
> Mob: 021 0640221
>
> email:
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller@lolacars.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:39 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 Debacle
>
>
>>
>> Suppose that you were doing Mod 72 and it was going to be really easy as
>> you you are still building and haven't got the engine attached.
>>
>> So, suppose that you have borrowed the club reamer and opened up the
>> tubes in the undercarriage frame and cleaned them out. The unpainted
>> inserts could then be pushed in by hand until only about 1cm was showing.
>>
>> Suppose then that you were rather enthusiastic with the etch primer and
>> after it had dried, tried to push the inserts in. Having got them half
>> way in with a hammer, what would you do if they really really didn't want
>> to go any further in? I mean hitting them with a hammer via a block of
>> wood is just splitting the wood.
>>
>> What would you do? I doubt they are going to come out. Should I hit
>> them harder, heat the frame, pour acetone down to remove the etch primer
>> or just wait for the ACF 50 to work it's way through and try again?
>>
>> Any thoughts would be more than appreciated,
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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I have the same problem and was waiting to see what happened.
Mine are up against the LG mounting frame of my trigear.
It is possible to simple mount them without the etching primer?
Will
Checked by AVG.
16:14
Message 7
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Hello Elbie,
That sounds fine, but where does one find these retreads ?
Karl
<html><div></div>
From: EMAproducts@aol.comDate: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:26:04 -0400Subject: Europ
a-List: Re: tire wearTo: europa-list@matronics.com
Gentlemen, Years ago I was chief flight instructor for a school with over 3
0 light aircraft. We used nothing but retreads as the wear was much better
, evidently they use a harder tread material than the "new" tires. I have
continued to this day using nothing but retreads.
Elbie Mendenhall
EM aviation
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AZ Europa Owners |
Jim;
My Europa is for sale at a pretty low price and can be seen at Falcon Field in
Mesa, AZ. It's located at Phoenix Composites and they're also open Saturdays.
Have him call over there and talk to Dace (owner or Phoenix Comp) or Heath
(Chief Mechanic) 480-924-9750.
Paul Boulet, N914PB
Malibu, CA 310-963-0210
jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote:
I have a friend in Phoenix that would like to see a completed Europa. I know
there are a couple there. Can you e-mail me details?
Thanks -
Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 72 Debacle |
Don't cut them off.
The etching primer is thick enough that you lost the clearances for a
slip fit. During the assembly you probably scrapped the paint enough to
cause galling (or little paint rolls) which has locked it up.
Clean off the primer, I would use a spray of acetone to clean the inside
of the tube from the rear. That will loosen the paint up. Use a fine
tip heat gun and heat the frame only where the interference is. Etching
primer gets soft at about 200F (just to a sizzle when water put on it is
enough). That will not hurt the tubing or firewall. Remove the heat
and use alcohol to cool the insert then tap again. If it moves in go
ahead and try to move it in further or make an extraction tool.
I made the same mistake on one aircraft and had to put a painfully long
screw (5/16 inch with a washer head ground to fit) inside the gear frame
tube but large enough to catch the insert wall. I then borrowed a slide
hammer to extract the insert. Lucky for me it was only in about an
inch. But it still requires removing the bolts from the frame,
machining a bolt head which will fit your slide hammer, replace the
frame bolts, and then heating the stupid thing, cooling the insert and
then pull it out.
Now I just ream, squirt with zinc chromate or the Corrosion X (ACP or
ACF 50) and tap it in wet and recoat front and rear to seal it in. If
you put primer on both the parts and let it dry, make the paint thin and
use the ACF 50 as a lube as well as for anticorrosion.
Hope it helps.
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: flyingphil2<mailto:ptiller@lolacars.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:39 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 Debacle
<ptiller@lolacars.com<mailto:ptiller@lolacars.com>>
Suppose that you were doing Mod 72 and it was going to be really easy
as you you are still building and haven't got the engine attached.
So, suppose that you have borrowed the club reamer and opened up the
tubes in the undercarriage frame and cleaned them out. The unpainted
inserts could then be pushed in by hand until only about 1cm was
showing.
Suppose then that you were rather enthusiastic with the etch primer
and after it had dried, tried to push the inserts in. Having got them
half way in with a hammer, what would you do if they really really
didn't want to go any further in? I mean hitting them with a hammer via
a block of wood is just splitting the wood.
What would you do? I doubt they are going to come out. Should I hit
them harder, heat the frame, pour acetone down to remove the etch primer
or just wait for the ACF 50 to work it's way through and try again?
Any thoughts would be more than appreciated,
Thanks,
Phil
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org<http://www.europaowners.org/>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 10
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| Subject: | AZ Europa Owners |
Mine is basically complete I have about 25 hours on it but it has been cut open
to get the gas tank out because it had developed a crack. I am just procrastinating
while I am developing an aluminum tank for it. Have your buddy E mail
me at hagargs@earthlink.net
Steve Hagar
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 4/2/2008 4:01:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: AZ Europa Owners
I have a friend in Phoenix that would like to see a completed Europa. I know there
are a couple there. Can you e-mail me details?
Thanks -
Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL
Message 11
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I was anticipating this when I started so I drilled and tapped the inside
bores before I inserted them. That way I could insert a threaded rod and
put a slide hammer on the sleeve and pull it out. Everything worked fine
however. I don't know what the wall thickness of the sleeves you have is
but I made sure mine was thick enough to accept a good sized thread. You
really don't want to have a bunch of stress built up inside your motor
mount tubes. You don't want to split them. When I put mine in they slipped
in about a quarter of the way and took about 5 wraps with a rubber mallet
to seat.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: William Daniell <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/3/2008 1:55:43 PM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 Debacle
>
>
> I have the same problem and was waiting to see what happened.
>
> Mine are up against the LG mounting frame of my trigear.
>
> It is possible to simple mount them without the etching primer?
>
> Will
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 16:14
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | AZ Europa Owners |
Steve-
That's several people who have had problems with the gas tank. Are you using a
Rotax and mogas?
Jim
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Mine is basically complete I have about 25 hours on it but it has been cut open
to get the gas tank out because it had developed a crack. I am just procrastinating
while I am developing an aluminum tank for it. Have your buddy E mail
me at hagargs@earthlink.net
Steve Hagar
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 4/2/2008 4:01:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: AZ Europa Owners
I have a friend in Phoenix that would like to see a completed Europa. I know there
are a couple there. Can you e-mail me details?
Thanks -
Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL
<html><body>
<DIV>Steve-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That's several people who have had problems with the gas tank. Are you
using a Rotax and mogas?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Steve Hagar"
<hagargs@earthlink.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV>Mine is basically complete I have about 25 hours on it but it has been cut open to get the gas tank out because it had developed a crack. I am just procrastinating while I am developing an aluminum tank for it. Have your buddy E mail me at <A href="mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net">hagargs@earthlink.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Steve Hagar</DIV>
<DIV>Mesa, AZ</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jimpuglise@comcast.net href="mailto:jimpuglise@comcast.net"></A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=europa-list@matronics.com href="mailto:europa-list@matronics.com">europa-list@matronics.com</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 4/2/2008 4:01:04 PM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Europa-List: AZ Europa Owners</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV>I have a friend in Phoenix that would like to see a completed Europa.
I know there are a couple there. Can you e-mail me details?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks -</DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL</DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier"
color=#000000 size=2>
</B></FONT></PRE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000
size=2>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 13
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| Subject: | AZ Europa Owners |
The issue is draining the fuel out of the tank and having it empty for an extended
length of time. The tank "drys out" and contracts. A crack will develop
along a bondline of one of the fiberglass mounting layups. No one tells you
this. Evidently it is quite common in this type of tank. A kit car company
makes this type of tank and they note that if you fibergalass their tank in
and let it dry out this will occur. These tanks are supposed to be strapped
in so they can move around at will.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 4/3/2008 7:54:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: AZ Europa Owners
Steve-
That's several people who have had problems with the gas tank. Are you using a
Rotax and mogas?their
Jim
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Mine is basically complete I have about 25 hours on it but it has been cut open
to get the gas tank out because it had developed a crack. I am just procrastinating
while I am developing an aluminum tank for it. Have your buddy E mail
me at hagargs@earthlink.net
Steve Hagar
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 4/2/2008 4:01:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: AZ Europa Owners
I have a friend in Phoenix that would like to see a completed Europa. I know there
are a couple there. Can you e-mail me details?
Thanks -
Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL
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