Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:27 AM - Re: CHTs everywhere (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 03:46 AM - Transponder antenna position (kenatkinson)
3. 04:18 AM - Re: CHTs everywhere (josok)
4. 04:26 AM - Re: CHTs everywhere (Paul Stewart)
5. 04:52 AM - Re: Transponder antenna position (josok)
6. 05:04 AM - Re: CHTs everywhere (rampil)
7. 05:06 AM - Re: CHTs everywhere (josok)
8. 05:06 AM - Re: Exhaust Pipe Crack (rampil)
9. 08:08 AM - Re: CHTs everywhere (Paul Stewart)
10. 09:01 AM - Re: Transponder antenna position (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
11. 10:14 AM - Re: Transponder antenna position (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
12. 10:20 AM - Re: Spacer for Wing Top (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
13. 11:09 AM - Re: CHTs everywhere (josok)
14. 11:44 AM - Re: Spacer for Wing Top (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
15. 12:07 PM - Re: Spacer for Wing Top (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
16. 12:07 PM - Re: CHTs everywhere (josok)
17. 12:14 PM - Re: Transponder antenna position (josok)
18. 12:53 PM - Re: Spacer for Wing Top (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
19. 03:02 PM - Re: Spacer for Wing Top (Rowland Carson)
20. 03:42 PM - Re: Transponder antenna position (Graham Singleton)
21. 05:28 PM - Re: Spacer for Wing Top (Fred Klein)
22. 08:42 PM - Re: Transponder antenna position (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Hello Ira,
I've yet to get to this exciting stage but I'm just wondering if you have
calibrated all the sensors and their respective monitors by putting all the
sensors in a pot of cold water and then bringing it all to boiling point to
ascertain any discrepancies which might exist in these items alone ?
Best regards
Kingsley in Oz.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
> I finally completed my cylinder head temp monitoring system so now
> I have . . . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Transponder antenna position |
I have just received my Filser TRT 800 mode S transponder and am
pondering on where to position the antenna. Has anyone already
successfully fitted, tested one.Also has it been approved?
Ken.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Interesting data!
On my bird there are ring probes under the spark plugs, and one Rotax cht probe
is in use. The ring probe on #3 indicates about 15 C higher as the Rotax probe.
Since oil- and coolant temperature are coupled in the oi-water heat exchanger,
i am using the oil temperature as coolant temperature indication. All the
temperatures are within 1 degree when the engine is cold. If the engine pre-heater
is on and the cowl under it's blanket, all temperatures are again within
1 degree of about 50 C.
My concern is in flight, especially on low power, like 55%, the front ring terminals
are around 60 C, and the hottest rear is around 100, with 95 C for the other.
Oil will typically be 85 to 90 C That's with an OAT of -5 to -10 C. My next
move is to temporarily block the standard air cooling openings and see if
the Rotax shroud and it's intake will produce a more even picture. And then hope
for acceptable results in the hot summer.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Ira
Are you not monitoring the VDO probes with your EFIS because they are
ungrounded probes?
I am hoping that changing the VDO probes to Westach grounded
alternatives (which fit the holes in the head) will work. They
certainly read on the EFIS but we haven't had the engine running yet.
regards
Paul
On 9 Apr 2008, at 13:49, rampil wrote:
>
> I finally completed my cylinder head temp monitoring system so now
> I have 3 sites of measurement: Regular Rotax VDO probes into
> the heads of Cylinders 2, 3 going to an analog gauge;
> Ring-type CHTs installed under the Rotax CHT probes and monitored by
> my Blue Mountain EFIS, and finally the Lockwood/Rotax coolant temp
> probe with a Blue Mountain probe going into the EFIS.
>
> So far, I have only done cowl-off, static testing but the results are
> interesting:
> The coolant temp at 4000 rpm is 20F higher than the Rotax/VDO
> which is about 20F higher than the ring probes outside the block.
>
> These will probably change when cowled and at cruise and climb which
> I plan to test when I return from SnF.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175679#175679
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna position |
I stuck a Bob Archer thing against the luggage bay bulkhead. First wrong way, it
has to be horizontal. The radio stays clean, no ticking sounds from the transponder,
and ATC sees me even in the steel hangar :-) It's a nice transponder.
and backs up as an altimeter with it's encoder built in. I am very happy with
it.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Hi Kingsley,
Be a former quant, yes, I love calibration! In situ the probes all read equal
when the engine is cold.
Hi Jos,
It would be very interesting to compare the ring location I have vs the
spark plug site. I was advised by Kerry at Lockwood not to go there
because the relationship between temps there and the "official" site
were not known or at least documented. I am enclosing a pic of the
two probes installed. When using the VDO probes on 2,3 on my old
BMA EFIS, there was usually a 20F delta between front and back. The
shroud should certainly help but it is very expensive. Homebrew anyone?
Hi Paul,
You are correct! The unipolar probes will not work at all. By design of the
engine pod, the voltage across the temp sensitive resistor is not
ground referenced and grounding the bottom of the resistor will
screw the constant current injector driving the probe. Greg and I tried
it anyway to see if it might work, but it was No Go.
I would suspect that Westach probes will not work. Blue Mountain does
not publish the sensor specs or cal curves but they use a UMA oem
sensor element. If you are using a Gen4 unit, you as a user can not
recalibrate to a different sensor. If you are using a previous generation
EFIS, anything can be made to work but you will need to calibrate it.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175892#175892
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/chts_958.jpg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Paul,
The Rotax cht probes are grounded, one side, the housing is ground, and the other
side is the connector. They are of the PTCor NTC type, that is a resistor,
which changes it's resistance with temperature. Other types of probes are thermocouples,
usually designated as "J" or "K" type probes, which produce a tiny
voltage depending on the temperature of the junction. Those can be grounded or
not. Whether you need resistive probes or "J" or "K" types probes is dependent
on the EIS and it's inputs. My Dynon D180 accepts both, but only on certain
positions.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Pipe Crack |
Where did your exhaust crack? See my previous post.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175893#175893
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Jos
It's using aircraft ground which a believe is the problem with the
BMA EFIS - hence the need to use a thermistor with two wires. I
believe the E1 uses it's own internal ground as reference so CHT and
Oli temp need grounds going back to a ground pin on the EFIS.
At the risk of upsetting Ira, and accepting I have very little
expertise in the area, I wouldn't buy the Blue Mountain unit again.
Not for a Rotax anyway and not flying in Europe. Still you live and
learn.
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
On 10 Apr 2008, at 13:04, josok wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> The Rotax cht probes are grounded, one side, the housing is ground,
> and the other side is the connector. They are of the PTCor NTC
> type, that is a resistor, which changes it's resistance with
> temperature. Other types of probes are thermocouples, usually
> designated as "J" or "K" type probes, which produce a tiny voltage
> depending on the temperature of the junction. Those can be grounded
> or not. Whether you need resistive probes or "J" or "K" types
> probes is dependent on the EIS and it's inputs. My Dynon D180
> accepts both, but only on certain positions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna position |
Jos-
I installed the Bob Archer antenna back in the tailcone on a piece of balsa. However,
I installed it vertically. Transponder antennas are vertically polarized,
aren't they, or am I confused?
BTW, I have a new sailboat -- get over and try it.
Jim Puglise A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
> I stuck a Bob Archer thing against the luggage bay bulkhead. First wrong way,
it
> has to be horizontal. The radio stays clean, no ticking sounds from the
> transponder, and ATC sees me even in the steel hangar :-) It's a nice
> transponder. and backs up as an altimeter with it's encoder built in. I am very
> happy with it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Jos-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I installed the Bob Archer antenna back in the tailcone on a piece of balsa.
However, I installed it vertically. Transponder antennas are vertically
polarized, aren't they, or am I confused?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW, I have a new sailboat -- get over and try it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise A-283</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
ator t
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna position |
Jim,
I just installed the Bob Archer Transponder ant. and, yes, it is supposed to
go horizontally. The connector should be closest to the front of the aircraft
with the opposite end (that containing the mass of the ant. copper element)
should point towards the tail.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
In a message dated 4/10/2008 9:02:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jimpuglise@comcast.net writes:
Jos-
I installed the Bob Archer antenna back in the tailcone on a piece of balsa.
However, I installed it vertically. Transponder antennas are vertically
polarized, aren't they, or am I confused?
BTW, I have a new sailboat -- get over and try it.
Jim Puglise A-283
ator t
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Spacer for Wing Top |
Thanks Jim,
I did drill those holes for pressure relief. I also added some extra
plywood/fiberglass support around the triangle area at the wing root due to concerns
of the skin flexing while people are entering or exiting the plane. I have
quadruple checked for no tools or spare nuts & bolts and have cleaned,
scuffed, and cleaned again the contact areas. Will epoxy today. Am using the 10'
long piece of square tubing, clamps, and a bunch of my dive weights to insure
good contact.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:00:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jimpuglise@comcast.net writes:
Mike-
I have the identical setup that you do and just did my skins last week. If
you look in the build manual, it seems to say that you don't use the pacers
under the ailerons. I didn't and I will need to trim more skin than I want to
to get the required up aileron. If I was going to do it again, I'd probably
use the spacers under both aileron and flaps. To attach the spacers, we cut
several pieces of packating tape, used a yellow hilighter to draw the line
on the flaps, dropped the flaps, I then held each depressor in place while my
wife put the tape across it to hold it in place. When they were all on, we
ran a couple of thicknesses of packtaging tape the length of the flap to hold
the spacers in place.
Gotchas: Don't forget to drill the hole for pressure relief in the last rib
on the outboard end. Also, it does not mention it in the manual but I
notice that there is a triangular shaped area on the inboard end of the wing that
will also be sealed. It is rather small, so may not be a problem, but I'd
probably want to put a hole in that rib too for pressure relief. Make sure the
MW-4 rod ends are installed on the aileron bellcrank before closing and have
at least two other people confirm that you have not left any tools in the
wing before closing. You may also want to mix the Araldite a little thicker
than usual so it will "stick to your ribs" (bad pun). Last, don't forget to
scuff sand both surfaces well. We just used bricks for weights and it all went
fine.
Let us know how it goes.
Jim Puglise A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good day All,
I have a quick question.......would those people that have already bonded
their top wing skins give their opinion as to the build manual using stir
sticks as a spacer when bonding on the top skin? Is their thickness the right
amount? If I remember correctly, my stir sticks measure about .070" thick.
Thanks in advance.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
____________________________________
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Hi Ira,
Because there is no factory data available for under spark plug temperatures, i
did compare those with the original Rotax probes in head 1 and 3, and came to
the 15 C higher outcome under normal loads. The spark plug sensors react much
faster then the rotax probes, which can be expected, thermocouples have a much
lower lag. The main reason for going this way however was to have an early warning
available in case one of the barrels goes out of the normal. This, together
with 4 EGT probes gives a pretty good picture on what's going on. I did go
the expensive way, Rotax shroud. Which function is pretty much inhibited by
the standard openings as i am experiencing now. I will come back and report on
the next, closed eyes experiment. After all, this is an experimental!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Spacer for Wing Top |
Let me know how it comes out Mike. I have quick-build flaps and after I got the
skin on, noticed that one was a little long. I checked it and it was about
3/8 longer than it should have been so my day has been spent shortening it. I
filled the outside ends of the flaps and ailerons.
Are you doing a "pre" close before the final bonding? Bob Berube suggested that
I do so and I'm glad I did.
Jim
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Thanks Jim,
I did drill those holes for pressure relief. I also added some extra plywood/fiberglass
support around the triangle area at the wing root due to concerns of
the skin flexing while people are entering or exiting the plane. I have quadruple
checked for no tools or spare nuts & bolts and have cleaned, scuffed, and
cleaned again the contact areas. Will epoxy today. Am using the 10' long piece
of square tubing, clamps, and a bunch of my dive weights to insure good contact.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:00:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jimpuglise@comcast.net
writes:
Mike-
I have the identical setup that you do and just did my skins last week. If you
look in the build manual, it seems to say that you don't use the pacers under
the ailerons. I didn't and I will need to trim more skin than I want to to get
the required up aileron. If I was going to do it again, I'd probably use the
spacers under both aileron and flaps. To attach the spacers, we cut several
pieces of packating tape, used a yellow hilighter to draw the line on the flaps,
dropped the flaps, I then held each depressor in place while my wife put
the tape across it to hold it in place. When they were all on, we ran a couple
of thicknesses of packtaging tape the length of the flap to hold the spacers
in place.
Gotchas: Don't forget to drill the hole for pressure relief in the last rib on
the outboard end. Also, it does not mention it in the manual but I notice that
there is a triangular shaped area on the inboard end of the wing that will
also be sealed. It is rather small, so may not be a problem, but I'd probably
want to put a hole in that rib too for pressure relief. Make sure the MW-4 rod
ends are installed on the aileron bellcrank before closing and have at least
two other people confirm that you have not left any tools in the wing before
closing. You may also want to mix the Araldite a little thicker than usual so
it will "stick to your ribs" (bad pun). Last, don't forget to scuff sand both
surfaces well. We just used bricks for weights and it all went fine.
Let us know how it goes.
Jim Puglise A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good day All,
I have a quick question.......would those people that have already bonded their
top wing skins give their opinion as to the build manual using stir sticks as
a spacer when bonding on the top skin? Is their thickness the right amount? If
I remember correctly, my stir sticks measure about .070" thick.
Thanks in advance.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<html><body>
<DIV>Let me know how it comes out Mike. I have quick-build flaps and after
I got the skin on, noticed that one was a little long. I checked it and
it was about 3/8 longer than it should have been so my day has been spent shortening
it. I filled the outside ends of the flaps and ailerons.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Are you doing a "pre" close before the final bonding? Bob Berube suggested
that I do so and I'm glad I did. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR><FONT id=role_document face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Thanks Jim,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I did drill those holes for pressure relief. I also added some extra plywood/fiberglass
support around the triangle area at the wing root due
to concerns of the skin flexing while people are entering or exiting the plane.
I have quadruple checked for no tools or spare nuts & bolts and have cleaned,
scuffed, and cleaned again the contact areas. Will epoxy today. Am using
the 10' long piece of square tubing, clamps, and a bunch of my dive weights
to insure good contact.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Mike Duane A207A<BR>Redding,
California<BR>XS Conventional Gear<BR>Jabiru 3300 <BR>Sensenich
R64Z N<BR>Ground Adjustable Prop</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:00:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jimpuglise@comcast.net
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Mike-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have the identical setup that you do and just did my skins last week.
If you look in the build manual, it seems to say that you don't use the pacers
under the ailerons. I didn't and I will need to trim more skin than
I want to to get the required up aileron. If I was going to do it again,
I'd probably use the spacers under both aileron and flaps. To attach the
spacers, we cut several pieces of packating tape, used a yellow hilighter to
draw the line on the flaps, dropped the flaps, I then held each depressor in
place while my wife put the tape across it to hold it in place. When they
were all on, we ran a couple of thicknesses of packtaging tape the length of
the flap to hold the spacers in place.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gotchas: Don't forget to drill the hole for pressure relief in
the last rib on the outboard end. Also, it does not mention it in the manual
but I notice that there is a triangular shaped area on the inboard end
of the wing that will also be sealed. It is rather small, so may
not be a problem, but I'd probably want to put a hole in that rib too for
pressure relief. Make sure the MW-4 rod ends are installed on the
aileron bellcrank before closing and have at least two other people confirm that
you have not left any tools in the wing before closing. You may also
want to mix the Araldite a little thicker than usual so it will "stick to
your ribs" (bad pun). Last, don't forget to scuff sand both surfaces well.
We just used bricks for weights and it all went fine. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let us know how it goes. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise A-283</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV>Good day All,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have a quick question.......would those people that have already bonded
their top wing skins give their opinion as to the build manual using stir sticks
as a spacer when bonding on the top skin? Is their thickness the right amount?
If I remember correctly, my stir sticks measure about .070" thick.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Mike Duane A207A<BR>Redding,
California<BR>XS Conventional Gear<BR>Jabiru 3300 <BR>Sensenich
R64Z N<BR>Ground Adjustable Prop</FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Spacer for Wing Top |
Pre-close? Other than setting the top skin on and shaping for a good fit,
I'm not sure what you are speaking of.
Mike Duane
In a message dated 4/10/2008 11:45:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jimpuglise@comcast.net writes:
Let me know how it comes out Mike. I have quick-build flaps and after I got
the skin on, noticed that one was a little long. I checked it and it was
about 3/8 longer than it should have been so my day has been spent shortening
it. I filled the outside ends of the flaps and ailerons.
Are you doing a "pre" close before the final bonding? Bob Berube suggested
that I do so and I'm glad I did.
Jim
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Thanks Jim,
I did drill those holes for pressure relief. I also added some extra
plywood/fiberglass support around the triangle area at the wing root due to concerns
of the skin flexing while people are entering or exiting the plane. I have
quadruple checked for no tools or spare nuts & bolts and have cleaned,
scuffed, and cleaned again the contact areas. Will epoxy today. Am using the 10'
long piece of square tubing, clamps, and a bunch of my dive weights to insure
good contact.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:00:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jimpuglise@comcast.net writes:
Mike-
I have the identical setup that you do and just did my skins last week. If
you look in the build manual, it seems to say that you don't use the pacers
under the ailerons. I didn't and I will need to trim more skin than I want to
to get the required up aileron. If I was going to do it again, I'd probably
use the spacers under both aileron and flaps. To attach the spacers, we cut
several pieces of packating tape, used a yellow hilighter to draw the line
on the flaps, dropped the flaps, I then held each depressor in place while my
wife put the tape across it to hold it in place. When they were all on, we
ran a couple of thicknesses of packtaging tape the length of the flap to hold
the spacers in place.
Gotchas: Don't forget to drill the hole for pressure relief in the last rib
on the outboard end. Also, it does not mention it in the manual but I
notice that there is a triangular shaped area on the inboard end of the wing that
will also be sealed. It is rather small, so may not be a problem, but I'd
probably want to put a hole in that rib too for pressure relief. Make sure
the MW-4 rod ends are installed on the aileron bellcrank before closing and
have at least two other people confirm that you have not left any tools in the
wing before closing. You may also want to mix the Araldite a little thicker
than usual so it will "stick to your ribs" (bad pun). Last, don't forget to
scuff sand both surfaces well. We just used bricks for weights and it all
went fine.
Let us know how it goes.
Jim Puglise A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good day All,
I have a quick question.......would those people that have already bonded
their top wing skins give their opinion as to the build manual using stir
sticks as a spacer when bonding on the top skin? Is their thickness the right
amount? If I remember correctly, my stir sticks measure about .070" thick.
Thanks in advance.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
____________________________________
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(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) .
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.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
____________________________________
Planning your summer road trip? Check out _AOL Travel Guides_
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) .
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: CHTs everywhere |
Paul,
While i don't really want to be knit-picking, i don't quite understand why or where
the engine ground would differ from internal ground. Unless there is a bad
connection somewhere in between. However unlike thermocouples, there are many
different characteristics for resistance probes. It may very well be that BMA
thinks it's too much trouble to cope for Rotax probes in software. We'll certainly
manage to upset Ira!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna position |
Jim, sorry, i first installed the antenna, then i read the manual and changed the
polarization. Now i don't remember what's up and down :-)
But i do remember a great sailing trip, and agree it's worth suffering an other
border security check by those black uniformed #/#%/.
But i am afraid it will take another year before it's possible, don't sell it yet!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Spacer for Wing Top |
Mike-
You mix the redux a little on the thick side using flox, then coat the ribs only.
You then put strips of visqueen over them and install and weight the skin.
In 24 hours you remove the weights, the skins, the plastic, scuff sand the redux,
fill the voids, apply another tyhin coat of redux and re-apply the skins
and weights. The reason for this is that some people have opened their wings
for one reason or another and found there are voids between the ribs and skins.
In my particular case, when we removed the skin after the pre-close, we found
very few voids, so I would have been OK without it. I understand that the
skins produced relatively recently fit much better than some of the earlier ones,
so it may or may not be a step worth doing for you. My kit is A-283 and
I don't know at what point they began doing a better job of fitting.
Jim
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Pre-close? Other than setting the top skin on and shaping for a good fit, I'm not
sure what you are speaking of.
Mike Duane
In a message dated 4/10/2008 11:45:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jimpuglise@comcast.net
writes:
Let me know how it comes out Mike. I have quick-build flaps and after I got the
skin on, noticed that one was a little long. I checked it and it was about
3/8 longer than it should have been so my day has been spent shortening it. I
filled the outside ends of the flaps and ailerons.
Are you doing a "pre" close before the final bonding? Bob Berube suggested that
I do so and I'm glad I did.
Jim
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Thanks Jim,
I did drill those holes for pressure relief. I also added some extra plywood/fiberglass
support around the triangle area at the wing root due to concerns of
the skin flexing while people are entering or exiting the plane. I have quadruple
checked for no tools or spare nuts & bolts and have cleaned, scuffed, and
cleaned again the contact areas. Will epoxy today. Am using the 10' long piece
of square tubing, clamps, and a bunch of my dive weights to insure good contact.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:00:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jimpuglise@comcast.net
writes:
Mike-
I have the identical setup that you do and just did my skins last week. If you
look in the build manual, it seems to say that you don't use the pacers under
the ailerons. I didn't and I will need to trim more skin than I want to to get
the required up aileron. If I was going to do it again, I'd probably use the
spacers under both aileron and flaps. To attach the spacers, we cut several
pieces of packating tape, used a yellow hilighter to draw the line on the flaps,
dropped the flaps, I then held each depressor in place while my wife put
the tape across it to hold it in place. When they were all on, we ran a couple
of thicknesses of packtaging tape the length of the flap to hold the spacers
in place.
Gotchas: Don't forget to drill the hole for pressure relief in the last rib on
the outboard end. Also, it does not mention it in the manual but I notice that
there is a triangular shaped area on the inboard end of the wing that will
also be sealed. It is rather small, so may not be a problem, but I'd probably
want to put a hole in that rib too for pressure relief. Make sure the MW-4 rod
ends are installed on the aileron bellcrank before closing and have at least
two other people confirm that you have not left any tools in the wing before
closing. You may also want to mix the Araldite a little thicker than usual so
it will "stick to your ribs" (bad pun). Last, don't forget to scuff sand both
surfaces well. We just used bricks for weights and it all went fine.
Let us know how it goes.
Jim Puglise A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good day All,
I have a quick question.......would those people that have already bonded their
top wing skins give their opinion as to the build manual using stir sticks as
a spacer when bonding on the top skin? Is their thickness the right amount? If
I remember correctly, my stir sticks measure about .070" thick.
Thanks in advance.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<html><body>
<DIV>Mike-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You mix the redux a little on the thick side using flox, then coat the ribs
only. You then put strips of visqueen over them and install and weight
the skin. In 24 hours you remove the weights, the skins, the plastic,
scuff sand the redux, fill the voids, apply another tyhin coat of redux and
re-apply the skins and weights. The reason for this is that some people
have opened their wings for one reason or another and found there are voids
between the ribs and skins. In my particular case, when we removed the skin
after the pre-close, we found very few voids, so I would have been OK without
it. I understand that the skins produced relatively recently fit
much better than some of the earlier ones, so it may or may not be a step worth
doing for you. My kit is A-283 and I don't know at what point they
began doing a better job of fitting. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR><FONT id=role_document face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Pre-close? Other than setting the top skin on and shaping for a good fit,
I'm not sure what you are speaking of.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Mike Duane</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2008 11:45:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jimpuglise@comcast.net
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Let me know how it comes out Mike. I have quick-build flaps and after
I got the skin on, noticed that one was a little long. I checked it and
it was about 3/8 longer than it should have been so my day has been spent shortening
it. I filled the outside ends of the flaps and ailerons.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Are you doing a "pre" close before the final bonding? Bob Berube suggested
that I do so and I'm glad I did. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV>Thanks Jim,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I did drill those holes for pressure relief. I also added some extra plywood/fiberglass
support around the triangle area at the wing root due
to concerns of the skin flexing while people are entering or exiting the plane.
I have quadruple checked for no tools or spare nuts & bolts and have cleaned,
scuffed, and cleaned again the contact areas. Will epoxy today. Am using
the 10' long piece of square tubing, clamps, and a bunch of my dive weights
to insure good contact.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Mike Duane A207A<BR>Redding,
California<BR>XS Conventional Gear<BR>Jabiru 3300 <BR>Sensenich
R64Z N<BR>Ground Adjustable Prop</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:00:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jimpuglise@comcast.net
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Mike-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have the identical setup that you do and just did my skins last week.
If you look in the build manual, it seems to say that you don't use the pacers
under the ailerons. I didn't and I will need to trim more skin than
I want to to get the required up aileron. If I was going to do it again,
I'd probably use the spacers under both aileron and flaps. To attach the
spacers, we cut several pieces of packating tape, used a yellow hilighter to
draw the line on the flaps, dropped the flaps, I then held each depressor in
place while my wife put the tape across it to hold it in place. When they
were all on, we ran a couple of thicknesses of packtaging tape the length of
the flap to hold the spacers in place.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gotchas: Don't forget to drill the hole for pressure relief in
the last rib on the outboard end. Also, it does not mention it in the manual
but I notice that there is a triangular shaped area on the inboard end
of the wing that will also be sealed. It is rather small, so may
not be a problem, but I'd probably want to put a hole in that rib too for
pressure relief. Make sure the MW-4 rod ends are installed on the
aileron bellcrank before closing and have at least two other people confirm that
you have not left any tools in the wing before closing. You may also
want to mix the Araldite a little thicker than usual so it will "stick to
your ribs" (bad pun). Last, don't forget to scuff sand both surfaces well.
We just used bricks for weights and it all went fine. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let us know how it goes. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise A-283</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV>Good day All,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have a quick question.......would those people that have already bonded
their top wing skins give their opinion as to the build manual using stir sticks
as a spacer when bonding on the top skin? Is their thickness the right amount?
If I remember correctly, my stir sticks measure about .070" thick.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Mike Duane A207A<BR>Redding,
California<BR>XS Conventional Gear<BR>Jabiru 3300 <BR>Sensenich
R64Z N<BR>Ground Adjustable Prop</FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
Planning your summer road trip? Check out <A title=http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016 href="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016" target=_blank>AOL Travel Guides</A>.</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000
size=2>
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://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</A>
</FONT></B></PRE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
Planning your summer road trip? Check out <A title=http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016 href="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016" target=_blank>AOL Travel Guides</A>.</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000
size=2>
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.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com</A>
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</A>
</FONT></B></PRE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
Planning your summer road trip? Check out <A title=http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016 href="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016" target=_blank>AOL Travel Guides</A>.</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Spacer for Wing Top |
At 2008-04-10 19:50 +0000 jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote:
>You mix the redux a little on the thick side using flox, then coat
>the ribs only. You then put strips of visqueen over them and
>install and weight the skin
Folks - see my journal entry & linked pictures for 16 November 2007
for a graphic illustration of this on my port wing - go to
<http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/200711.html>
I've just done the starboard wing in the past week and it displayed a
different set of rib height variations, so pre-bonding was definitely
worthwhile for me.
I endorse Neville's advice about using the strip of vinyl as a spacer
too - anything thinner would have needed excessive trimming to get my
aileron travel up to spec.
Hope this helps.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 990 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna position |
Jos
I thought transponder polarisation was vertical? I always put the Bob
Archer thing (excellent imho) with its two arms vertical and the feeder
from the BNC horizontal. Am I getting confussed ?:-o
Graham
josok wrote:
>
> I stuck a Bob Archer thing against the luggage bay bulkhead. First wrong way,
it has to be horizontal. The radio stays clean, no ticking sounds from the transponder,
and ATC sees me even in the steel hangar :-) It's a nice transponder.
and backs up as an altimeter with it's encoder built in. I am very happy with
it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Spacer for Wing Top |
On Thursday, Apr 10, 2008, at 14:28 US/Pacific, Rowland Carson wrote:
> I endorse Neville's advice about using the strip of vinyl as a spacer
> too - anything thinner would have needed excessive trimming to get my
> aileron travel up to spec.
Rowland,
Your journal is quite something...thank you for the reference. By any
chance, could you give us a thickness measurement of the vinyl strips
you're using?
Fred
A194
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna position |
I think we simply have a semantics problem. I hope this drawing makes it
intact. If not, I'll scan the last page of the install instructions and post it.
..................
.
.
.
.
O----------------------------------------------.................
BNC Conn .
.
.
.
<----------- Pilot
................. Tail -------------->
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300A
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
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