---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/27/08: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:04 AM - Re: Europa Black Sea Trip 20-30 August (karelvranken) 2. 02:16 AM - Re: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion (nigel charles) 3. 02:51 AM - Re: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion (Graham Singleton) 4. 07:18 AM - Second Annual Europa Fly in (Paul McAllister) 5. 07:55 AM - Re: Second Annual Europa Fly in (Paul McAllister) 6. 08:12 AM - Ducati et al (Fergus Kyle) 7. 09:42 AM - Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion (Venu Rao) 8. 09:47 AM - Re: External door handles (danbish) 9. 10:11 AM - First Flight N211KA (Kevin Klinefelter) 10. 10:43 AM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Kevin Klinefelter) 11. 10:43 AM - Re: First Flight N211KA (ALAN YERLY) 12. 12:00 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (craig bastin) 13. 12:01 PM - Re: Second Annual Europa Fly in (craig bastin) 14. 12:08 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Robert Borger) 15. 12:27 PM - Re: Second Annual Europa Fly in (Jeff B) 16. 12:59 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Garry) 17. 02:00 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Peter Timm) 18. 02:06 PM - Rough on the lafet mag (JEFF ROBERTS) 19. 02:23 PM - Re: External door handles (Fred Klein) 20. 02:29 PM - Re: Rough on the lafet mag (Gilles Thesee) 21. 02:53 PM - Rubber components (Carl Pattinson) 22. 04:03 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (JR Gowing) 23. 04:04 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Graham Singleton) 24. 04:05 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Graham Singleton) 25. 04:08 PM - Re: Second Annual Europa Fly in (Graham Singleton) 26. 04:11 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Graham Singleton) 27. 04:17 PM - Re: Rough on the lafet mag (Jeff B) 28. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion (Graham Singleton) 29. 04:42 PM - June visit (Graham Singleton) 30. 07:04 PM - flap seals (Peter Timm) 31. 08:47 PM - outrigger retracts (Fred Klein) 32. 09:35 PM - Re: First Flight N211KA (Paul Boulet) 33. 11:21 PM - Re: Rubber components (DuaneFamly@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:03 AM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Black Sea Trip 20-30 August David, You know already that I am looking forward for further information about the trip. Prievidsa, east of Bratislava is the place where the Dynamic is fabricated and worth a lunch stop. Karlovy Vary in Checkia is also a nice place for the first night stop. Regards, Karel Vranken. PS Weather permitting I will see you in Shobdon next Sunday? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:31 PM Subject: Europa-List: Europa Black Sea Trip 20-30 August > > > It would be very helpful if anyone contemplating joining this trip would > get in contact with me now, even if not certain of coming. Regards, David > Joyce, G-XSDJ > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:48 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion Conventional gear aircraft are not much less demanding than monowheel. The main lesson that had to be learnt with monowheel was to keep the tail on the ground to 40kts on take-off. Also the vulnerable period on take-off (40 - 50kts)is much reduced with the use of higher power engines and CS props. I know of one conventional gear Europa has departed the side of a tarmac runway and sheared off the bottom of its gear leg so they are not immune to loss of control. The nosewheel on trigears can receive a lot of loading on grass and nosewheel collapse has happened on several occasions. Trigears are great if you are only going to use tarmac runways and are prepared to sacrifice payload, speed and fuel consumption. With monowheel aircraft landings are more difficult on tarmac due to the increased directional instability. This also applies to conventional gear to a slightly lesser extent. The monowheel has a weight advantage as the reinforced area of the fuselage for the landing gear coincides with that of the engine. Due to the need to reinforce the fuselage in a different area both the trigear (and to a lesser extent the conventional gear) suffer weight penalties. In my opinion too much blame is placed on the aircraft. Without doubt greater skill is required to handle the monowheel but most of the accidents/incidents are down to the pilot which is why the number of events have reduced over the years as technique and training have been developed. I know many pilots with many hours of monowheel experience who haven't groundlooped their aircraft. Many never will, but it would be tempting fate to claim it. The secret seems to be to take proper specific type training, learn the specific techniques and operate within your own limitations which will often be more limiting than that of the aircraft. After 250hrs I still try to avoid crosswinds of over 10kts even though I have operated at higher crosswinds on a few occasions. Crosswind handling is always going to be a bigger challenge for monowheel and conventional gear aircraft over trigear. Gradually increasing your personal limit and making an allowance for gusty conditions is a wise precaution. In monowheel form the Europa still stands out as a unique aircraft in terms of grass strip operation combined with fuel efficient cruising. Once you choose other types of gear there are several similarly competetive types around such as the Sportcruiser. With the recent hike in fuel prices even the RV series (another good strip/touring machine) is starting to feel the pinch in terms of operating costs. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:56 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion > > Conventional gear aircraft are not much less demanding than monowheel. > > In my opinion too much blame is placed on the aircraft. I know many pilots with many hours of monowheel experience > who haven't groundlooped their aircraft. Many never will, > > In monowheel form the Europa still stands out as a unique aircraft in > terms of grass strip operation combined with fuel efficient cruising. > > Nigel Charles Nigel I couldn't agree more. The monowheel was chosen to enable operation from muddy fields, and it can. There was an occasion when the grass was longish and the tri gear would not take off 2 up. Jon Tye's monowheel was used to ferry the passenger to a nearby hard strip. (Ivan was flying the tri) Walter Binder's early Classic mono was outstanding, he retracted the outriggers electrically into the wing, modified the cowlings and the windscreen. He claimed he cruised at 140kts with an 80hp 912. He also towed gliders with it. Walter is a unique character, wish I knew him but my German is not good enough. Graham ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:44 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Second Annual Europa Fly in Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Hear Ye Be it known throughout the land and across to far shores that the second Annual Europa Fly-in will be held in the Hamlet of "Falls of Rough" on the very days of September 6 and 7 in the year of our Lord 2008 ________________________ Hi all, Jeff and I have been working with the management of the Rough River Resort and have found taking into account regional fly-in dates and accommodation availability that the best date for this years event is the weekend of September 7th and 8th Rough River is part of the Kentucky State Park system with its own airport (2I3), camping facilities and a lodge, which is walking distance from the airport. The lodge has both rooms and cabin style accommodation. Rough River offers walking trails, fishing, beach, golfing and a large marina that has rental craft of all sizes available. At the time of writing the resort has four two bedroom cabins and twenty single rooms available. I would encourage anyone who is interested to book early as accommodation fills quickly. For more in Rough River take a look at http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/rr/ http://www.roughriverlaketourism.com/acc.htm http://www.airnav.com/airport/2I3 For reservations call 800-325-1713. Please let me or Jeff know if you are contemplating attending. It would help us better plan the event if we had an approximate head count. Paul can be contacted on paul.the.aviator@gmail.com Jeff can be contacted on topglock@cox.net Paul McAllister & Jeff Behrnes ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:04 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Second Annual Europa Fly in Hi all just noticed a typo lower down in the message. Just to confirm, September 6/7 - Paul ___________________________________ On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > > Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Hear Ye > > Be it known throughout the land and across to far shores that the > second Annual Europa Fly-in will be held in the Hamlet of "Falls of > Rough" on the very days of September 6 and 7 in the year of our Lord > 2008 > ________________________ > > Hi all, Jeff and I have been working with the management of the Rough > River Resort and have found taking into account regional fly-in dates > and accommodation availability that the best date for this years event > is the weekend of September 7th and 8th > > Rough River is part of the Kentucky State Park system with its own > airport (2I3), camping facilities and a lodge, which is walking > distance from the airport. The lodge has both rooms and cabin style > accommodation. > > Rough River offers walking trails, fishing, beach, golfing and a large > marina that has rental craft of all sizes available. > > At the time of writing the resort has four two bedroom cabins and > twenty single rooms available. I would encourage anyone who is > interested to book early as accommodation fills quickly. > > For more in Rough River take a look at > > http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/rr/ > http://www.roughriverlaketourism.com/acc.htm > http://www.airnav.com/airport/2I3 > > > For reservations call 800-325-1713. > > Please let me or Jeff know if you are contemplating attending. It > would help us better plan the event if we had an approximate head > count. > > Paul can be contacted on paul.the.aviator@gmail.com > Jeff can be contacted on topglock@cox.net > > > Paul McAllister & Jeff Behrnes > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:43 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Ducati et al In view of Gilles' excellent treatment at http://contrails.free.fr/elec_ducati_en.php and while contemplating the need for extra power for radios etc., I fabricated a miniature NACA duct on top of the upper cowling which points right at the device. It's crude but I wanted to get most out of it I could. The pics are stored in the Forum Gallery, under Ferg Kyle, IDJIT BUILDER album, Sauve qui peut Ferg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:46 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion From: "Venu Rao" Nigel and Graham, Thanks for the terrific feedback. I concur that it's all about pilot experience and personal comfort-levels. There are many of us new to the mono's, and several who are in the latter stages of completion, and would dearly like to get some "authorized" training and are willing to pay for it too. The mono config is unique and elegant, but after reading several threads in the archives about "sensitive handling" and failing to find anyone in the States (Texas!) who can provide some transition training it has me second guessing if I should indeed convert Jim Nelson's beautifully crafted A058 to a conventional gear. There seems to be a lot of ambivalence in the community on this subject, and it could in large part be mitigated if we had some "formal" training. No doubt hull insurance will go down with fewer accidents to sully the reputation of one of the most beautiful a/c in aviation! BTW - how can I get more info on Walter's elec. retract outriggers and can they be incorporated as a post build mod? Thanks, and looking forward to joining you in the skies soon - mono or conventional....;) Venu grahamsingleton(at)btinte wrote: > > > > > Conventional gear aircraft are not much less demanding than monowheel. > > > > In my opinion too much blame is placed on the aircraft. > > > > > > I know many pilots with many hours of monowheel experience > > > who haven't groundlooped their aircraft. Many never will, > > > > In monowheel form the Europa still stands out as a unique aircraft in > > terms of grass strip operation combined with fuel efficient cruising. > > > > Nigel Charles > > > > > > Nigel > I couldn't agree more. The monowheel was chosen to enable operation from > muddy fields, and it can. There was an occasion when the grass was > longish and the tri gear would not take off 2 up. Jon Tye's monowheel > was used to ferry the passenger to a nearby hard strip. (Ivan was flying > the tri) > Walter Binder's early Classic mono was outstanding, he retracted the > outriggers electrically into the wing, modified the cowlings and the > windscreen. He claimed he cruised at 140kts with an 80hp 912. He also > towed gliders with it. > Walter is a unique character, wish I knew him but my German is not good > enough. > Graham -------- Venu Rao Austin, TX Europa Mono Builder: Jim Nelson TTAE 132.1 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179596#179596 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: External door handles From: "danbish" For some reason the photos didn't come through in this post. Any chance you could post them again or put them somewhere in the gallery? Thanks, Dan Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:12 AM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Hi All, I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on 4/23/08. Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by Kim Prout. I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! Some facts about N211KA and first flight Intercooled 914 Airmaster prop Alternator on vac pump pad Empty CG 59.25" First Flight CG 60" Empty Weight 886 lbs. VSO 43 KIAS VX 61 VY 75 First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. Bishop airport, California Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have issues in typical high summer heat around here. Awesome little airplane Kevin ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:10 AM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Correction: left wing heavy solo Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 > on 4/23/08. > Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by > Kim Prout. > I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! > > Some facts about N211KA and first flight > > Intercooled 914 > Airmaster prop > Alternator on vac pump pad > Empty CG 59.25" > First Flight CG 60" > Empty Weight 886 lbs. > VSO 43 KIAS > VX 61 > VY 75 > First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. > Bishop airport, California > > Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. > Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on > the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have > issues in typical high summer heat around here. > > Awesome little airplane > > Kevin > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:10 AM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Congrats Kevin, Hope that the out of trim is only the left flap a little higher than the right. A tiny shim between the flap tube and cockpit module, just enough to move the flap down a 64th on the flap TE is all it takes to clear that up. You'll find more out during the stalls and rig checks higher up. Enjoy, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Klinefelter To: europa-list@matronics.com ; Bob Lindsay Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:07 PM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA > Hi All, I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on 4/23/08. Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by Kim Prout. I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! Some facts about N211KA and first flight Intercooled 914 Airmaster prop Alternator on vac pump pad Empty CG 59.25" First Flight CG 60" Empty Weight 886 lbs. VSO 43 KIAS VX 61 VY 75 First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. Bishop airport, California Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have issues in typical high summer heat around here. Awesome little airplane Kevin http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:38 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA I thought what you said was counter intuitive it being more balanced when you weighted the heavy wing, but stranger things have happened. Congrats craig do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Klinefelter Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 3:38 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Correction: left wing heavy solo Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 > on 4/23/08. > Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by > Kim Prout. > I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! > > Some facts about N211KA and first flight > > Intercooled 914 > Airmaster prop > Alternator on vac pump pad > Empty CG 59.25" > First Flight CG 60" > Empty Weight 886 lbs. > VSO 43 KIAS > VX 61 > VY 75 > First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. > Bishop airport, California > > Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. > Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on > the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have > issues in typical high summer heat around here. > > Awesome little airplane > > Kevin > > Checked by AVG. 2:17 PM Checked by AVG. 2:17 PM ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:56 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Second Annual Europa Fly in ever considered a job as town cryer paul :) Unfortuately its a bit far to come for two days craig do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 12:51 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Second Annual Europa Fly in Hi all just noticed a typo lower down in the message. Just to confirm, September 6/7 - Paul ___________________________________ On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > > Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Hear Ye > > Be it known throughout the land and across to far shores that the > second Annual Europa Fly-in will be held in the Hamlet of "Falls of > Rough" on the very days of September 6 and 7 in the year of our Lord > 2008 > ________________________ > > Hi all, Jeff and I have been working with the management of the Rough > River Resort and have found taking into account regional fly-in dates > and accommodation availability that the best date for this years event > is the weekend of September 7th and 8th > > Rough River is part of the Kentucky State Park system with its own > airport (2I3), camping facilities and a lodge, which is walking > distance from the airport. The lodge has both rooms and cabin style > accommodation. > > Rough River offers walking trails, fishing, beach, golfing and a large > marina that has rental craft of all sizes available. > > At the time of writing the resort has four two bedroom cabins and > twenty single rooms available. I would encourage anyone who is > interested to book early as accommodation fills quickly. > > For more in Rough River take a look at > > http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/rr/ > http://www.roughriverlaketourism.com/acc.htm > http://www.airnav.com/airport/2I3 > > > For reservations call 800-325-1713. > > Please let me or Jeff know if you are contemplating attending. It > would help us better plan the event if we had an approximate head > count. > > Paul can be contacted on paul.the.aviator@gmail.com > Jeff can be contacted on topglock@cox.net > > > Paul McAllister & Jeff Behrnes > Checked by AVG. 2:17 PM Checked by AVG. 2:17 PM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:23 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Kevin, Congratulations on the first flight of N211KA. Keep us posted on further flights. Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, baggage bay in. Fuel system complete. Rotax and Airmaster installed. Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done. Completed the instrument panel install. Europa interior kit being installed. Installed windows. Working in - 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Mostly finishing these days. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:07, Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 > on 4/23/08. > Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by > Kim Prout. > I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! > > Some facts about N211KA and first flight > > Intercooled 914 > Airmaster prop > Alternator on vac pump pad > Empty CG 59.25" > First Flight CG 60" > Empty Weight 886 lbs. > VSO 43 KIAS > VX 61 > VY 75 > First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. > Bishop airport, California > > Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. > Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good > on the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may > have issues in typical high summer heat around here. > > Awesome little airplane > > Kevin > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:32 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Second Annual Europa Fly in ...and on that note, word has it that a few of our British counterparts just may be attending... Mary and I are already booked... :) Jeff - Baby Blue craig bastin wrote: > > ever considered a job as town cryer paul :) > Unfortuately its a bit far to come for two days > > craig > > do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul > McAllister > Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 12:51 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Second Annual Europa Fly in > > > > > Hi all just noticed a typo lower down in the message. Just to > confirm, September 6/7 - Paul > ___________________________________ > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Paul McAllister > wrote: > >> Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Hear Ye >> >> Be it known throughout the land and across to far shores that the >> second Annual Europa Fly-in will be held in the Hamlet of "Falls of >> Rough" on the very days of September 6 and 7 in the year of our Lord >> 2008 >> ________________________ >> >> Hi all, Jeff and I have been working with the management of the Rough >> River Resort and have found taking into account regional fly-in dates >> and accommodation availability that the best date for this years event >> is the weekend of September 7th and 8th >> >> Rough River is part of the Kentucky State Park system with its own >> airport (2I3), camping facilities and a lodge, which is walking >> distance from the airport. The lodge has both rooms and cabin style >> accommodation. >> >> Rough River offers walking trails, fishing, beach, golfing and a large >> marina that has rental craft of all sizes available. >> >> At the time of writing the resort has four two bedroom cabins and >> twenty single rooms available. I would encourage anyone who is >> interested to book early as accommodation fills quickly. >> >> For more in Rough River take a look at >> >> http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/rr/ >> http://www.roughriverlaketourism.com/acc.htm >> http://www.airnav.com/airport/2I3 >> >> >> For reservations call 800-325-1713. >> >> Please let me or Jeff know if you are contemplating attending. It >> would help us better plan the event if we had an approximate head >> count. >> >> Paul can be contacted on paul.the.aviator@gmail.com >> Jeff can be contacted on topglock@cox.net >> >> >> >> Paul McAllister & Jeff Behrnes >> > > > > > Checked by AVG. > 2:17 PM > > Checked by AVG. > 2:17 PM > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:52 PM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Congratulations Kevin! I knew you'd make it to the end, which makes it all worthwhile. Give my regards to Kim and Bob. Garry Stout 914 Tri Tampa FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA > > I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on > 4/23/08. > Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by Kim > Prout. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:47 PM PST US From: "Peter Timm" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Congratulations Kevin, like you already have suggested, it does get hot in Bishop in the summer. We landed there on May 6, 2006 on our way to Lake Havasu City and Sedona during a heat-wave. My Europa is a Classic Mono with a 912S, and I had installed a larger oilcooler from the beginning, which I have to block off with some tape during our cold season, but it has always been able to cope with the hot summer days down south. I am experimenting with flap-seals right now and notice a very marked increase in climb performance. When one of my flap-seals blew out( temporary self-adhesive), the aircraft dropped a wing in that direction, due to the increase in lift on the other side. I feel strongly about the value of flap-seals, especially since they are cheap and easy to install. Soft P-section seals of the right size for your aircraft are best. Have fun flying, it beats building by a wide margin! Peter Timm, # 110 Pemberton, B.C. Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA > > Correction: left wing heavy solo > > Kevin Klinefelter wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on >> 4/23/08. >> Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by Kim >> Prout. >> I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! >> >> Some facts about N211KA and first flight >> >> Intercooled 914 >> Airmaster prop >> Alternator on vac pump pad >> Empty CG 59.25" >> First Flight CG 60" >> Empty Weight 886 lbs. >> VSO 43 KIAS >> VX 61 >> VY 75 >> First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. >> Bishop airport, California >> >> Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. >> Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on >> the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have >> issues in typical high summer heat around here. >> >> Awesome little airplane >> >> Kevin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:47 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Rough on the lafet mag HI All, After returning to the ground and as I shut down I went from both the right then left mag before shutting down. I noticed the left running slightly rough compared to the right. I didn't have time to look it over then but I will soon. Other than the plugs can anyone tell me anything they have found to cause this. Thanks in advance to anyone with Ideas. Regards, Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 110 hours and climbing slowly. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: External door handles From: Fred Klein On Sunday, Apr 27, 2008, at 09:43 US/Pacific, danbish wrote: > > > For some reason the photos didn't come through in this post. Any > chance you could post them again or put them somewhere in the gallery? > Dan...tried to send them to you direct but connection failed w/ this msg: Fred >>>> DATA > <<< 571 danbish@norwalktucson.com prohibited. We do not relay > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > <<< 554 no valid RCPT address specified > Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.orcasonline.com > Arrival-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:15:04 -0700 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; danbish@norwalktucson.com > Action: failed > Status: 5.0.0 > Remote-MTA: DNS; server112.appriver.com > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 571 danbish@norwalktucson.com prohibited. We do > not relay > Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:15:23 -0700 > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:47 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough on the lafet mag JEFF ROBERTS a crit : > Other than the plugs can anyone tell me anything they have found to > cause this. Cracked high voltage leads. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:39 PM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Europa-List: Rubber components Following my thread about replacing rubber components (Rotax 5 year mandatory requirement) I have managed to find a supplier of Bing carb spares (including the rubber diaphragm). It seems that some BMW bikes use Bing carbs but unfortunately suppliers only use BMW part numbers which gives no clues as to the correct size. Fortunately the helpful man at one supplier went to the store and measured the parts for me. The correct one for the Bing 64-3 is the 32mm (not sure what that dimension relates to) The actual disphragm is 40mm inside diameter and 80mm outside dia. The official Rotax price is 45 or 27 from Aerosport Ltd. BMW stockist price is 12.50 for a genuine Bing replacement ot 6.25 for a generic replacement. http://www.motobins.co.uk/displayfinal.php?function=show&subs=084&title=DIAPHRAGMS+%26+GASKETS Unfortunately I havent had as much luck with the carb flanges yet, though this one looks promising - I have dropped them a line to see if they will mail to the UK. Has anyone had any dealings with them? http://www.jackofmosttrades.com/Rotax_Parts/Carb_sockets_912/carb_sockets_912.html Still expensive at $58 but might be an option for those in the USA. The other option is the Mikuni adapter but again I am having difficulty identifying the correct size - and again no one in the UK seems to stock them. They are available here and I have written to the supplier for precise dimensions. The Rotax flange on my 912 is 74mm between centres and the carb diameter 43mm. http://www.hiperf.com/acatalog/Snowmobile_Catalog_Mikuni_Carbs_and_Parts_83.html The price they quote is $25 It was interesting to note that when I removed one of my carb flanges (allegedly genuine Rotax spares) it was marked ALS - Japan. This would suggest that Rotax get these from a generic source and there is nothing special or unique about them (EXCEPT THE PRICE !!!). Maybe someone knows different. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:29 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Congratulations Kevin! Every first flight deserves a medal! JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz UK Kit 327 - past 50% do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:07 AM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA > > Hi All, > > I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on > 4/23/08. > Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by Kim > Prout. > I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! > > Some facts about N211KA and first flight > > Intercooled 914 > Airmaster prop > Alternator on vac pump pad > Empty CG 59.25" > First Flight CG 60" > Empty Weight 886 lbs. > VSO 43 KIAS > VX 61 > VY 75 > First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. > Bishop airport, California > > Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. > Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on the > ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have issues > in typical high summer heat around here. > > Awesome little airplane > > Kevin > > > -- > Date: 26/04/2008 2:17 PM > -- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:01 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA if Bud's fix doesn't cure it a gurny flap on one aileron will. Congratulations Kevin. When you get to fly it yourself have a safety pilot like Kim on board (tell him hi from me) and when you take off keep the tail down as long as you can, and make sure its the first to touch on the landing. The other important criterion is that both outriggers touch together and hold the airplane level on the ground. Also that neither collaoses which can catch you out. Graham ALAN YERLY wrote: > Congrats Kevin, > > Hope that the out of trim is only the left flap a little higher than the > right. A tiny shim between the flap tube and cockpit module, > just enough to move the flap down a 64th on the flap TE is all it takes > to clear that up. You'll find more out during the stalls and rig checks > higher up. > > Enjoy, > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Kevin Klinefelter > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com ; > Bob Lindsay > *Sent:* Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:07 PM > *Subject:* Europa-List: First Flight N211KA > > > > > Hi All, > > I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on > 4/23/08. > Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by > Kim > Prout. > I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! > > Some facts about N211KA and first flight > > Intercooled 914 > Airmaster prop > Alternator on vac pump pad > Empty CG 59.25" > First Flight CG 60" > Empty Weight 886 lbs. > VSO 43 KIAS > VX 61 > VY 75 > First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. > Bishop airport, California > > Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. > Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on > the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have > issues in typical high summer heat around here. > > Awesome little Features Chat, --> > http://www.matron====================== > bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:42 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Gurny flap under the right aileron TE, 6" of draft excluder tape Graham Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > > Correction: left wing heavy solo > > Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:23 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Second Annual Europa Fly in I have travelled to RR from UK, 3 times. It was definitely worth it just to meet all the gurus. (EZ gurus btw, the ones who inspired Ivan to desigh the Europa) Graham craig bastin wrote: > > ever considered a job as town cryer paul :) > Unfortuately its a bit far to come for two days > > craig +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:29 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Peter are your flap seals installed to seal flaps up only or both up and down? Graham Peter Timm wrote: > I am experimenting with flap-seals right now and notice a very marked > increase in climb performance. When one of my > flap-seals blew out( temporary self-adhesive), the aircraft dropped a wing > in that direction, due to the increase in lift on the other side. > > Peter Timm, # 110 > > Pemberton, B.C. > Canada b: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:49 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough on the lafet mag Jeff, Knowing your history with heat problems and the time on your engine, why not just change the plugs. It may not fix the problem, but it will eliminate them as the cause. http://www.sparkplugs.com has them cheap! As suggested, it could be plug leads. Might want to check carb springs and stuck cables, too. Let us know what you find... Jeff - Baby Blue JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > HI All, > After returning to the ground and as I shut down I went from both the > right then left mag before shutting down. I noticed the left running > slightly rough compared to the right. I didn't have time to look it over > then but I will soon. Other than the plugs can anyone tell me anything > they have found to cause this. > > Thanks in advance to anyone with Ideas. > > Regards, > > Jeff R. > A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 110 hours and climbing slowly. > size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Checked by AVG. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:29 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion I only have two piks of the outrigger; this was a German guy near Hamburg whose name I don't have. It was at least 8 years ago. Jens Gralfs might know. Failing him Harald linke <0406055601-0001@T-Online.de> Graham Venu Rao wrote: > > Nigel and Graham, > > BTW - how can I get more info on Walter's elec. retract outriggers and can they be incorporated as a post build mod? > > Thanks, and looking forward to joining you in the skies soon - mono or conventional....;) > > Venu > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:10 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: June visit Kim I am hoping to go to Burt Rutan's birthday party 21 June. Might well be the last chance I get to meet up with him, he hasn't been too well and I am of an age when things go wrong too. Are you around then, be nice to meet up and swap news? I will fly into LAX and rent a car. Booked in to a hotel with Jim Price 21st in Mojave. Graham Kim Prout wrote: > > Hello Graham! Interesting discussion on the Whirlwind. The CAF report was > done with the original design blades but Jim wasn't completely satisfied > with that so he redesigned the airfoil and twist to get better performance. > The "numbers" changed quite a bit increasing climb rate by over 100 fpm and > shortening take off roll by 100 feet. This is the current design supplied by > Whirlwind as far as I know.... And yes, it was the single best performance > enhancement I ever made to N111EU. It is more complex than just bolting on > the Airmaster but I like that the weight (and rotating mass) is so minimal. > My installed weight including governer, cable control, spinner and backing > plates and of course, the propeller assembly came in at 13.5 lbs. Anyway, > have a great summer! I will be in Sweden, Gotland June 5 til June 21 at my > friend's airport ESVB (Bunge) and we would love to see some Europas fly > there. You can get information about the airport on line. > Kim prout > > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:24 PM PST US From: "Peter Timm" Subject: Europa-List: flap seals Graham, the flaps are only sealed in the up position, by the leading edge of the flaps pressing against the seal attached to the inside of the channel. Sealing the flaps in the down position would defeat the benefit of slotted flaps with their own lift producing air-foil,in my opinion. The old L 13 Blanik sailplanes used to have such flap-seals, which would then deteriorate over time. However, there are now all kinds of such seals available, including those stocked by camper-trailer and marine suppliers and installation is particularly easy on the Europa. Try it, you'll like it! Peter Timm, # 110 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA > > Correction: left wing heavy solo > > Kevin Klinefelter wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on >> 4/23/08. >> Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by Kim >> Prout. >> I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! >> >> Some facts about N211KA and first flight >> >> Intercooled 914 >> Airmaster prop >> Alternator on vac pump pad >> Empty CG 59.25" >> First Flight CG 60" >> Empty Weight 886 lbs. >> VSO 43 KIAS >> VX 61 >> VY 75 >> First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. >> Bishop airport, California >> >> Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. >> Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on >> the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have >> issues in typical high summer heat around here. >> >> Awesome little airplane >> >> Kevin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:31 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: outrigger retracts From: Fred Klein On Sunday, Apr 27, 2008, at 16:28 US/Pacific, Graham Singleton wrote: > I only have two piks of the outrigger; Graham, Thanks for these piks...very intriguing...would you venture an opinion as to the implications of airflow disruption around the embedded rod and wheel on the underside of the wing? I believe the Kennedy/Gladstone Europa also has elec. retracts on its outriggers. While I've marveled at the standard mechanical retraction mechanism, it certainly isn't simple, but as far as I know, it has generally performed quite well (with some notable exceptions posted on this list). I've considered that deviating from the standard outrigger was beyond my expertise, but maybe not. FWIW, I've prototyped a fully enclosed outrigger fairing, but no flight tests as yet; see piks below. Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. Roll 30 - 14 Roll 30 - 16 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:07 PM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N211KA Kevin; my heart felt congratulations on reaching this milestone. My kit was A212 and I remember all of us unloading that container so many years ago. My family seems to be taking up all my spare time now so sadly, I'm attempting to sell N914PB for a give away price (any interest out there?). Kim did my shake down too so I know what a through job he did. He was also initial test pilot and did a smashing job. Blessings, Paul Boulet, Malibu, CA. Tri Gear 914 XS Kevin Klinefelter wrote: Hi All, I am very happy to announce the first flight of Europa Mono Kit A211 on 4/23/08. Test Pilot was Bob Lindsay after an inspection and weight&balance by Kim Prout. I can not possibly thank those gentleman enough! Some facts about N211KA and first flight Intercooled 914 Airmaster prop Alternator on vac pump pad Empty CG 59.25" First Flight CG 60" Empty Weight 886 lbs. VSO 43 KIAS VX 61 VY 75 First Flight total weight 1118 lbs. Bishop airport, California Right wing heavy when flown solo, and just a touch heavy with two up. Engine and Prop perform just perfectly together. Temps are all good on the ground and in the pattern. OAT was only around 70 F, so I may have issues in typical high summer heat around here. Awesome little airplane Kevin ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:14 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rubber components In a message dated 4/27/2008 2:54:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk writes: I have dropped them a line to see if they will mail to the UK. Has anyone had any dealings with them? Why would a company that would be charging you for the S&H not want to ship to the UK? If they did have a problem, have them shipped to a fellow Europaphile and have them reship. Just a thought. Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. 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