Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - FW: William & Paul's memorial fly-in (David.Corbett)
2. 01:03 AM - Re: Tailplane torque tube troubles (Robert C Harrison)
3. 07:34 AM - Re: Switch for Hobbs. (nigel charles)
4. 10:49 AM - Re: Tailplane torque tube troubles (Rob Housman)
5. 11:47 AM - Setting the wing incidence (William Daniell)
6. 12:00 PM - Re: Tailplane torque tube troubles (Robert Hatton)
7. 02:00 PM - Re: William and Paul's fly-in, Shobdon, 5 May 2008 (Paddy Clarke)
8. 03:33 PM - Refueling (Rotax) (Raimo Toivio)
9. 03:40 PM - Re: Setting the wing incidence (Robert C Harrison)
10. 04:07 PM - Loctiteing tailplanes torque tube (Raimo Toivio)
11. 04:55 PM - Re: Setting the wing incidence (Kingsley Hurst)
12. 04:56 PM - Re: Refueling (Rotax) (craig bastin)
Message 1
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Subject: | FW: William & Paul's memorial fly-in |
I received this from Laura.
David
----------------
From: Laura Farmer [mailto:welshlaura@gmail.com]
Sent: 05 May 2008 19:26
Subject: William & Paul's memorial fly-in
Dear David,
Please excuse me for being brief, my emotions are still a little raw, but I
just wanted, on behalf of Paul's family, to thank you, Bryan and Paddy
sincerely for today. Thanks to everyone who organised and contributed, all
the staff at Shobdon, and everyone who made the effort despite the inclement
weather, to attend today. We wouldn't have missed it for the world, and I
know Paul for one was there too with a birds eye view over all those lovely
Europas !
Warm Regards,
Laura Farmer.
PS Please feel free to forward this to anyone relevant, I have forgotten for
now how to contribute to the Europa List.
Message 2
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Subject: | Tailplane torque tube troubles |
Hi! Rick
My Europa G-PTAG had flaking nickel plate on the Torque tube from day
one. Now 600 hours and no problems but you are advised to only use very
light oil when fitting the tail planes. (Grease being very viscous
tightens the assembly.)
However it is therefore still possible, should water get ingressed that
rust could eventually be a problem on long term fitted parts...mine has
been derigged almost every time it flies.
Regards
Bob H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Stockton
Sent: 06 May 2008 02:18
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles
Thanks Rob, Yes, I know not to use it, but now what do I do. ?Get a new
part from England or have this one replated? Still waiting for John to
get back to me.
Rob Housman <rob@hyperion-ef.com> wrote:
My business is plating, including nickel plating. When electrodeposited
nickel does not adhere to the substrate it is indicative of inadequate
cleaning and activation of the substrate. DO NOT install any parts that
have the plated metal peeling because the problem will only get worse as
more material peels.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles
Rick
loose plating might give you trouble with tailplane removal, the fit in
the tailplane bushes is quite tight.
Get it replaced or replated, that should not happen
Graham
Rick Stockton wrote:
> I installed the tail plane torque tube a couple of days ago and
strayed
> it with AFS-50 then wiped it down with MEK. I noticed that the plating
> is flaking off on one side. I sent an E-mail to John asking him what
he
> thinks I need to do.
>
> Are there any ideals? Have it replated, buy a new one?
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob:
Message 3
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Subject: | Switch for Hobbs. |
Attached is the circuit I used.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: 05 May 2008 17:17
Subject: Europa-List: Switch for Hobbs.
What are chaps using to switch their hobbs timer on with engine start?
Is there an alternative to the n/o oil pressure switch? - perhaps
sensing alternator output.
Thanks
Mike Gamble
Message 4
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Subject: | Tailplane torque tube troubles |
Actually my point about not using it was to alert the others monitoring the
list that no matter how slight a defect such as you have seen, not to use
any part with plating that is peeling.
I would not recommend re-plating. Although it is possible to remove the
nickel, for example by immersing the part in nitric acid, possible (likely?)
damage to the substrate would make the part less than airworthy in my
opinion. The steel tube is so cheap that it would not be economical to
spend the time to repair it - replacement is the likely answer you'll get
from the factory.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:18 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles
Thanks Rob, Yes, I know not to use it, but now what do I do. ?Get a new
part from England or have this one replated? Still waiting for John to get
back to me.
Rob Housman <rob@hyperion-ef.com> wrote:
My business is plating, including nickel plating. When electrodeposited
nickel does not adhere to the substrate it is indicative of inadequate
cleaning and activation of the substrate. DO NOT install any parts that
have the plated metal peeling because the problem will only get worse as
more material peels.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles
Rick
loose plating might give you trouble with tailplane removal, the fit in
the tailplane bushes is quite tight.
Get it replaced or replated, that should not happen
Graham
Rick Stockton wrote:
> I installed the tail plane torque tube a couple of days ago and strayed
> it with AFS-50 then wiped it down with MEK. I noticed that the plating
> is flaking off on one side. I sent an E-mail to John asking him what he
> thinks I need to do.
>
> Are there any ideals? Have it replated, buy a new one?
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob:
Message 5
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Subject: | Setting the wing incidence |
I am embarking upon the wing incidence operation with some trepidation.
I
have armed myself with a digital level.
A couple of perhaps dumb questions
1. The rear lift pin is vertical. If this is correct do you have
to
cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out?
2. One of my front pins won=92t go in all the way ' still has
about 4
threads showing. The other one goes in all the way. How do I get a
grip of
the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to it or
cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver?
Does anyone have any =93gotchas=94 that they can warn me about?
Thanks
Will
Checked by AVG.
04-May-08
12:31
Message 6
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Subject: | Tailplane torque tube troubles |
I am reading these torque tube troubles with a vested interest. I have a
torque tube with some surface rust and my immediate view would be to replace
the torque tube but for the fact of the job that it would entail.
On a previous thread (a year or more ago) I read about the "earlier" torque
tubes for the pre-XS Europas were not a standard dimension. Therefore the
current torque tubes as supplied by the factory for the XS models will not
be an exact fit for what I would like to replace. I believe I will have to
work on the elevators as well as having the difficulty of extracting the
torque tube itself.
Has anyone experienced removing a torque tube in order to replace it and can
offer some advice?
At the moment my LAA inspector is reviewing what we have once I have cleaned
up the torque tube after rubbing down wet with WD-40 with 800 grade
sandpaper. If the tube looks too far gone after this exercise then I will
not have any choice but to replace.
Robert Hatton
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles
Actually my point about not using it was to alert the others monitoring the
list that no matter how slight a defect such as you have seen, not to use
any part with plating that is peeling.
I would not recommend re-plating. Although it is possible to remove the
nickel, for example by immersing the part in nitric acid, possible (likely?)
damage to the substrate would make the part less than airworthy in my
opinion. The steel tube is so cheap that it would not be economical to
spend the time to repair it - replacement is the likely answer you'll get
from the factory.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:18 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles
Thanks Rob, Yes, I know not to use it, but now what do I do. ?Get a new
part from England or have this one replated? Still waiting for John to get
back to me.
Rob Housman <rob@hyperion-ef.com> wrote:
My business is plating, including nickel plating. When electrodeposited
nickel does not adhere to the substrate it is indicative of inadequate
cleaning and activation of the substrate. DO NOT install any parts that
have the plated metal peeling because the problem will only get worse as
more material peels.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles
Rick
loose plating might give you trouble with tailplane removal, the fit in
the tailplane bushes is quite tight.
Get it replaced or replated, that should not happen
Graham
Rick Stockton wrote:
> I installed the tail plane torque tube a couple of days ago and strayed
> it with AFS-50 then wiped it down with MEK. I noticed that the plating
> is flaking off on one side. I sent an E-mail to John asking him what he
> thinks I need to do.
>
> Are there any ideals? Have it replated, buy a new one?
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: William and Paul's fly-in, Shobdon, 5 May 2008 |
Hi All,e
All I can add is that, considering the weather, I thought the event
was a great success. This was entirely down to David Corbett and the
team at Shobden. How David managed to keep his sense of humour
through all the trials and tribulations I'll never know!
All the Best, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 8
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Subject: | Refueling (Rotax) |
All The Europa Refuelers,
I do not like to use 100LL (w Rotax).
That makes my engine (912S) unhappy, really.
So - if possible - I carry Mogas to the airfield.
That is not fun. I really hate it, to refuel it.
Same time, I do love to pump Cessna by 100LL.
More unfun is to refuel Europa by *normal* way because
- a canister is heavy to keep up
- it takes a long time to refuel even 60 litres = 3 cans
- it is unsafe for refueler=B4s health to be near when refueling
- there is a possibility [because of the contact between can and plane]
to flame and burn whole Europa and maybe your *whole life work*
- when almost full, it tends to come some fuel out from breathing tube
I think most of the problems are out w attached equipment. As you see
there is also for extra safety a real Europa fuel filter (they are extra
for me because I use one piece solid ones). In my case the fuel pump is
a cheap one - only 1,5 litres /minute - but so there is a good time to
check the plane! The power is taken from the `Jump Start` as in the pic
OR from my Europas EPS (External Power Source).
It took only 10 minutes to make this idea to live in Today.
Raimo
OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417
The Experimental of The Year 2007
37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450
raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
www.rwm.fi
http://mmniemi.aviation.fi/jami_07/europa/
Message 9
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Subject: | Setting the wing incidence |
Hi! William
Please don't consider me an authority but in the absence of any one else
replying ....!
I'm bemused by question 1?
Do you mean the rear lift pin locking pip pin is vertical?
If so, you get it out by pulling it vertically upwards and you will need
to cut a hole eventually through the wing to fuselage fillet fairings so
at this stage you will need to relieve it's clearance through the
inboard upper surface of the wing closeout which when the fairings have
been fitted you may well need to open out . The pip pin travels
vertically or parallel to the rib. The lift pin is "normal" to the root
closeout rib.
2. Have you used a no 3 plug thread tap all the way into the hole ?
because it sounds to me the threads aren't tapped deep enough? Otherwise
try freezing the pin it may shrink it a "nats".
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Sent: 06 May 2008 19:44
Subject: Europa-List: Setting the wing incidence
I am embarking upon the wing incidence operation with some trepidation.
I have armed myself with a digital level.
A couple of perhaps dumb questions
1. The rear lift pin is vertical. If this is correct do you have
to cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out?
2. One of my front pins won't go in all the way - still has about
4 threads showing. The other one goes in all the way. How do I get a
grip of the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to
it or cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver?
Does anyone have any "gotchas" that they can warn me about?
Thanks
Will
Checked by AVG.
04-May-08 12:31
Message 10
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Subject: | Loctiteing tailplanes torque tube |
This pic you must see!
I loctited [603] today my Europa=B4s tail planes torque tubes to be one
solid tube.
I used a great Belgium made patent by Mr. Dirk van Oyen to do it.
All went well - it was nice to see Loctite 603 coming through!
I have to pack IT because *some* people think it must be a kind kinky
stuf.
Hard to prove this equipment is just and only to make Europa=B4s more
safer to fly.
Raimo
OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417
The Experimental of The Year 2007
37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450
raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
www.rwm.fi
http://mmniemi.aviation.fi/jami_07/europa/
Message 11
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Subject: | Setting the wing incidence |
Will,
> 1. The rear lift pin is vertical. If this is correct do you
have to cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out?
I think your wording here may be a little confusing. The actual lift
pin is horizontal (actually parallel to the main wing pins when viewed
horizontally) and the hole through it which accommodates the Pip Pin
locking pin is vertical. To enable insertion and removal of the Pip
Pin, a hole needs to be cut through the upper wing surface/fairing.
> 2. One of my front pins won't go in all the way - still has
about 4 threads showing. The other one goes in all the way. How do I
get a grip of the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole
grips to it or cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver?
In my opinion, if the threads on the pins and in the holes are clean and
dry, you should be able to screw the pins in fully by hand.
This is what I would try:-
*
Swap the pins from one wing to the other to determine if it is
the pin or hole at fault.
*
If the pin screws fully into the other wing, then it is the
hole at fault so ensure the tap will easily screw fully into the hole
and that the thread in the hole contains no debris from the tapping
operation.
* The pin may have been dropped or something may have dropped on
it and damaged the thread. If so, in the absence of having the proper
die to restore the thread, drill and tap a hole through a 1/4" piece of
flat steel. Using a vice with "soft jaws"*, clamp the pin tightly in
the vice and screw the 1/4" piece of steel down over the thread. This
will allow you enough leverage to overcome a slight deformation of the
thread on the pin and will hopefully restore the thread to enable it to
be screwed back easily into the wing.
* "Soft Jaws" eg, two pieces of 1.5" X 1.5" aluminium angle placed into
the jaws of the vice to prevent damage to the part being held.
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
Message 12
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Subject: | Refueling (Rotax) |
firstly, great idea, Just one thing with your setup, IMHO you really should
have a
static "earth" strap to ground the aircraft to the fuel source, so there is
no
potential voltage difference, and thus eliminate the chance of sparks
creating
an ignition source, the same as you see when a fuel truck refuels you.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2008 8:41 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Refueling (Rotax)
All The Europa Refuelers,
I do not like to use 100LL (w Rotax).
That makes my engine (912S) unhappy, really.
So - if possible - I carry Mogas to the airfield.
That is not fun. I really hate it, to refuel it.
Same time, I do love to pump Cessna by 100LL.
More unfun is to refuel Europa by *normal* way because
- a canister is heavy to keep up
- it takes a long time to refuel even 60 litres = 3 cans
- it is unsafe for refuelers health to be near when refueling
- there is a possibility [because of the contact between can and plane] to
flame and burn whole Europa and maybe your *whole life work*
- when almost full, it tends to come some fuel out from breathing tube
I think most of the problems are out w attached equipment. As you see there
is also for extra safety a real Europa fuel filter (they are extra for me
because I use one piece solid ones). In my case the fuel pump is a cheap
one - only 1,5 litres /minute - but so there is a good time to check the
plane! The power is taken from the `Jump Start` as in the pic OR from my
Europas EPS (External Power Source).
It took only 10 minutes to make this idea to live in Today.
Raimo
OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417
The Experimental of The Year 2007
37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450
raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
www.rwm.fi
http://mmniemi.aviation.fi/jami_07/europa/
Checked by AVG.
12:31 PM
Checked by AVG.
5:17 PM
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