---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/06/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:26 AM - FW: William & Paul's memorial fly-in (David.Corbett) 2. 01:03 AM - Re: Tailplane torque tube troubles (Robert C Harrison) 3. 07:34 AM - Re: Switch for Hobbs. (nigel charles) 4. 10:49 AM - Re: Tailplane torque tube troubles (Rob Housman) 5. 11:47 AM - Setting the wing incidence (William Daniell) 6. 12:00 PM - Re: Tailplane torque tube troubles (Robert Hatton) 7. 02:00 PM - Re: William and Paul's fly-in, Shobdon, 5 May 2008 (Paddy Clarke) 8. 03:33 PM - Refueling (Rotax) (Raimo Toivio) 9. 03:40 PM - Re: Setting the wing incidence (Robert C Harrison) 10. 04:07 PM - Loctiteing tailplanes torque tube (Raimo Toivio) 11. 04:55 PM - Re: Setting the wing incidence (Kingsley Hurst) 12. 04:56 PM - Re: Refueling (Rotax) (craig bastin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:59 AM PST US From: "David.Corbett" Subject: Europa-List: FW: William & Paul's memorial fly-in I received this from Laura. David ---------------- From: Laura Farmer [mailto:welshlaura@gmail.com] Sent: 05 May 2008 19:26 Subject: William & Paul's memorial fly-in Dear David, Please excuse me for being brief, my emotions are still a little raw, but I just wanted, on behalf of Paul's family, to thank you, Bryan and Paddy sincerely for today. Thanks to everyone who organised and contributed, all the staff at Shobdon, and everyone who made the effort despite the inclement weather, to attend today. We wouldn't have missed it for the world, and I know Paul for one was there too with a birds eye view over all those lovely Europas ! Warm Regards, Laura Farmer. PS Please feel free to forward this to anyone relevant, I have forgotten for now how to contribute to the Europa List. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:28 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Hi! Rick My Europa G-PTAG had flaking nickel plate on the Torque tube from day one. Now 600 hours and no problems but you are advised to only use very light oil when fitting the tail planes. (Grease being very viscous tightens the assembly.) However it is therefore still possible, should water get ingressed that rust could eventually be a problem on long term fitted parts...mine has been derigged almost every time it flies. Regards Bob H -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: 06 May 2008 02:18 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Thanks Rob, Yes, I know not to use it, but now what do I do. ?Get a new part from England or have this one replated? Still waiting for John to get back to me. Rob Housman wrote: My business is plating, including nickel plating. When electrodeposited nickel does not adhere to the substrate it is indicative of inadequate cleaning and activation of the substrate. DO NOT install any parts that have the plated metal peeling because the problem will only get worse as more material peels. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:41 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Rick loose plating might give you trouble with tailplane removal, the fit in the tailplane bushes is quite tight. Get it replaced or replated, that should not happen Graham Rick Stockton wrote: > I installed the tail plane torque tube a couple of days ago and strayed > it with AFS-50 then wiped it down with MEK. I noticed that the plating > is flaking off on one side. I sent an E-mail to John asking him what he > thinks I need to do. > > Are there any ideals? Have it replated, buy a new one? > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:22 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Switch for Hobbs. Attached is the circuit I used. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble Sent: 05 May 2008 17:17 Subject: Europa-List: Switch for Hobbs. What are chaps using to switch their hobbs timer on with engine start? Is there an alternative to the n/o oil pressure switch? - perhaps sensing alternator output. Thanks Mike Gamble ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:51 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Actually my point about not using it was to alert the others monitoring the list that no matter how slight a defect such as you have seen, not to use any part with plating that is peeling. I would not recommend re-plating. Although it is possible to remove the nickel, for example by immersing the part in nitric acid, possible (likely?) damage to the substrate would make the part less than airworthy in my opinion. The steel tube is so cheap that it would not be economical to spend the time to repair it - replacement is the likely answer you'll get from the factory. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Thanks Rob, Yes, I know not to use it, but now what do I do. ?Get a new part from England or have this one replated? Still waiting for John to get back to me. Rob Housman wrote: My business is plating, including nickel plating. When electrodeposited nickel does not adhere to the substrate it is indicative of inadequate cleaning and activation of the substrate. DO NOT install any parts that have the plated metal peeling because the problem will only get worse as more material peels. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:41 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Rick loose plating might give you trouble with tailplane removal, the fit in the tailplane bushes is quite tight. Get it replaced or replated, that should not happen Graham Rick Stockton wrote: > I installed the tail plane torque tube a couple of days ago and strayed > it with AFS-50 then wiped it down with MEK. I noticed that the plating > is flaking off on one side. I sent an E-mail to John asking him what he > thinks I need to do. > > Are there any ideals? Have it replated, buy a new one? > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:10 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: Europa-List: Setting the wing incidence I am embarking upon the wing incidence operation with some trepidation. I have armed myself with a digital level. A couple of perhaps dumb questions 1. The rear lift pin is vertical. If this is correct do you have to cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out? 2. One of my front pins won=92t go in all the way ' still has about 4 threads showing. The other one goes in all the way. How do I get a grip of the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to it or cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver? Does anyone have any =93gotchas=94 that they can warn me about? Thanks Will Checked by AVG. 04-May-08 12:31 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:06 PM PST US From: "Robert Hatton" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles I am reading these torque tube troubles with a vested interest. I have a torque tube with some surface rust and my immediate view would be to replace the torque tube but for the fact of the job that it would entail. On a previous thread (a year or more ago) I read about the "earlier" torque tubes for the pre-XS Europas were not a standard dimension. Therefore the current torque tubes as supplied by the factory for the XS models will not be an exact fit for what I would like to replace. I believe I will have to work on the elevators as well as having the difficulty of extracting the torque tube itself. Has anyone experienced removing a torque tube in order to replace it and can offer some advice? At the moment my LAA inspector is reviewing what we have once I have cleaned up the torque tube after rubbing down wet with WD-40 with 800 grade sandpaper. If the tube looks too far gone after this exercise then I will not have any choice but to replace. Robert Hatton From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Actually my point about not using it was to alert the others monitoring the list that no matter how slight a defect such as you have seen, not to use any part with plating that is peeling. I would not recommend re-plating. Although it is possible to remove the nickel, for example by immersing the part in nitric acid, possible (likely?) damage to the substrate would make the part less than airworthy in my opinion. The steel tube is so cheap that it would not be economical to spend the time to repair it - replacement is the likely answer you'll get from the factory. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Thanks Rob, Yes, I know not to use it, but now what do I do. ?Get a new part from England or have this one replated? Still waiting for John to get back to me. Rob Housman wrote: My business is plating, including nickel plating. When electrodeposited nickel does not adhere to the substrate it is indicative of inadequate cleaning and activation of the substrate. DO NOT install any parts that have the plated metal peeling because the problem will only get worse as more material peels. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:41 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane torque tube troubles Rick loose plating might give you trouble with tailplane removal, the fit in the tailplane bushes is quite tight. Get it replaced or replated, that should not happen Graham Rick Stockton wrote: > I installed the tail plane torque tube a couple of days ago and strayed > it with AFS-50 then wiped it down with MEK. I noticed that the plating > is flaking off on one side. I sent an E-mail to John asking him what he > thinks I need to do. > > Are there any ideals? Have it replated, buy a new one? > > * > > > * -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:40 PM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Re: Europa-List: William and Paul's fly-in, Shobdon, 5 May 2008 Hi All,e All I can add is that, considering the weather, I thought the event was a great success. This was entirely down to David Corbett and the team at Shobden. How David managed to keep his sense of humour through all the trials and tribulations I'll never know! All the Best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:17 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: Refueling (Rotax) All The Europa Refuelers, I do not like to use 100LL (w Rotax). That makes my engine (912S) unhappy, really. So - if possible - I carry Mogas to the airfield. That is not fun. I really hate it, to refuel it. Same time, I do love to pump Cessna by 100LL. More unfun is to refuel Europa by *normal* way because - a canister is heavy to keep up - it takes a long time to refuel even 60 litres = 3 cans - it is unsafe for refueler=B4s health to be near when refueling - there is a possibility [because of the contact between can and plane] to flame and burn whole Europa and maybe your *whole life work* - when almost full, it tends to come some fuel out from breathing tube I think most of the problems are out w attached equipment. As you see there is also for extra safety a real Europa fuel filter (they are extra for me because I use one piece solid ones). In my case the fuel pump is a cheap one - only 1,5 litres /minute - but so there is a good time to check the plane! The power is taken from the `Jump Start` as in the pic OR from my Europas EPS (External Power Source). It took only 10 minutes to make this idea to live in Today. Raimo OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417 The Experimental of The Year 2007 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi http://mmniemi.aviation.fi/jami_07/europa/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:56 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting the wing incidence Hi! William Please don't consider me an authority but in the absence of any one else replying ....! I'm bemused by question 1? Do you mean the rear lift pin locking pip pin is vertical? If so, you get it out by pulling it vertically upwards and you will need to cut a hole eventually through the wing to fuselage fillet fairings so at this stage you will need to relieve it's clearance through the inboard upper surface of the wing closeout which when the fairings have been fitted you may well need to open out . The pip pin travels vertically or parallel to the rib. The lift pin is "normal" to the root closeout rib. 2. Have you used a no 3 plug thread tap all the way into the hole ? because it sounds to me the threads aren't tapped deep enough? Otherwise try freezing the pin it may shrink it a "nats". Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 06 May 2008 19:44 Subject: Europa-List: Setting the wing incidence I am embarking upon the wing incidence operation with some trepidation. I have armed myself with a digital level. A couple of perhaps dumb questions 1. The rear lift pin is vertical. If this is correct do you have to cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out? 2. One of my front pins won't go in all the way - still has about 4 threads showing. The other one goes in all the way. How do I get a grip of the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to it or cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver? Does anyone have any "gotchas" that they can warn me about? Thanks Will Checked by AVG. 04-May-08 12:31 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:58 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: Loctiteing tailplanes torque tube This pic you must see! I loctited [603] today my Europa=B4s tail planes torque tubes to be one solid tube. I used a great Belgium made patent by Mr. Dirk van Oyen to do it. All went well - it was nice to see Loctite 603 coming through! I have to pack IT because *some* people think it must be a kind kinky stuf. Hard to prove this equipment is just and only to make Europa=B4s more safer to fly. Raimo OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417 The Experimental of The Year 2007 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi http://mmniemi.aviation.fi/jami_07/europa/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:04 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting the wing incidence Will, > 1. The rear lift pin is vertical. If this is correct do you have to cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out? I think your wording here may be a little confusing. The actual lift pin is horizontal (actually parallel to the main wing pins when viewed horizontally) and the hole through it which accommodates the Pip Pin locking pin is vertical. To enable insertion and removal of the Pip Pin, a hole needs to be cut through the upper wing surface/fairing. > 2. One of my front pins won't go in all the way - still has about 4 threads showing. The other one goes in all the way. How do I get a grip of the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to it or cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver? In my opinion, if the threads on the pins and in the holes are clean and dry, you should be able to screw the pins in fully by hand. This is what I would try:- * Swap the pins from one wing to the other to determine if it is the pin or hole at fault. * If the pin screws fully into the other wing, then it is the hole at fault so ensure the tap will easily screw fully into the hole and that the thread in the hole contains no debris from the tapping operation. * The pin may have been dropped or something may have dropped on it and damaged the thread. If so, in the absence of having the proper die to restore the thread, drill and tap a hole through a 1/4" piece of flat steel. Using a vice with "soft jaws"*, clamp the pin tightly in the vice and screw the 1/4" piece of steel down over the thread. This will allow you enough leverage to overcome a slight deformation of the thread on the pin and will hopefully restore the thread to enable it to be screwed back easily into the wing. * "Soft Jaws" eg, two pieces of 1.5" X 1.5" aluminium angle placed into the jaws of the vice to prevent damage to the part being held. Cheers Kingsley in Oz ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:59 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Refueling (Rotax) firstly, great idea, Just one thing with your setup, IMHO you really should have a static "earth" strap to ground the aircraft to the fuel source, so there is no potential voltage difference, and thus eliminate the chance of sparks creating an ignition source, the same as you see when a fuel truck refuels you. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2008 8:41 AM Subject: Europa-List: Refueling (Rotax) All The Europa Refuelers, I do not like to use 100LL (w Rotax). That makes my engine (912S) unhappy, really. So - if possible - I carry Mogas to the airfield. That is not fun. I really hate it, to refuel it. Same time, I do love to pump Cessna by 100LL. More unfun is to refuel Europa by *normal* way because - a canister is heavy to keep up - it takes a long time to refuel even 60 litres = 3 cans - it is unsafe for refuelers health to be near when refueling - there is a possibility [because of the contact between can and plane] to flame and burn whole Europa and maybe your *whole life work* - when almost full, it tends to come some fuel out from breathing tube I think most of the problems are out w attached equipment. As you see there is also for extra safety a real Europa fuel filter (they are extra for me because I use one piece solid ones). In my case the fuel pump is a cheap one - only 1,5 litres /minute - but so there is a good time to check the plane! The power is taken from the `Jump Start` as in the pic OR from my Europas EPS (External Power Source). It took only 10 minutes to make this idea to live in Today. Raimo OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417 The Experimental of The Year 2007 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi http://mmniemi.aviation.fi/jami_07/europa/ Checked by AVG. 12:31 PM Checked by AVG. 5:17 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.