Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:46 AM - AOA probe design (William Harrison)
2. 02:17 AM - Wheel rub (p-a.austin)
3. 02:53 AM - Re: Wheel rub (Robert C Harrison)
4. 03:39 AM - AAIB report G-HOFC (David.Corbett)
5. 04:39 AM - Re: AOA probe design (Rowland Carson)
6. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: AW: Switch for Hobbs. (Rowland Carson)
7. 06:56 AM - Re: AOA probe design (William Harrison)
8. 07:11 AM - Re: Fuel Sight Gague Tubing (david miller)
9. 10:06 AM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
10. 10:19 AM - Re: AW: Switch for Hobbs. (rampil)
11. 10:47 AM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (Karl Heindl)
12. 10:57 AM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (David Watts)
13. 11:02 AM - For Sale - Skyforce Skymap IIIC - NEW - Latest Database (Matt Dralle)
14. 11:20 AM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (rampil)
15. 12:32 PM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
16. 01:37 PM - Re: AOA probe design ()
17. 02:26 PM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (David Joyce)
18. 02:59 PM - For Sale - RMI uEncoder - NEW - Assembled (Matt Dralle)
19. 03:40 PM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
20. 03:47 PM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (Trevpond@aol.com)
21. 03:59 PM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (Trevpond@aol.com)
22. 11:03 PM - Re: AAIB report G-HOFC (William Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | AOA probe design |
Folks,
I am looking for a sensible AOA probe to feed my Dynon D100. The
Dynon probe is ghastly - very big and heavy so I won't use that.
I can't see what's wrong with a small, light weight probe based on
the same principle, ie an angled face with a hole in it. Has anyone
else designed their own and if so how well did it work?
Anyone know of a good off the shelf probe suitable for the Dynon?
Many thanks
Willie Harrison
G-BZNY - a plane about to be reborn after an 700 hour rebuild....
Message 2
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Replaced the wheel barrow tyre with an Airtrak prior to first flight, there
was clearance between the tyre sidewall and forks then, albeit small, now
find after 7 hours and 24 cycles the tyre is now lightly rubbing against the
forks.
This subject, from memory has been raised on here before, cannot fully
remember the fix, would someone be kind enough to reiterate their proven
procedure.
Regards
Peter
#198
Message 3
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Hi! Peter
Sounds like a slightly bigger spacer washer is needed.?
Regards
Bob Harrison.G_PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of p-a.austin
Sent: 09 May 2008 10:13
Subject: Europa-List: Wheel rub
Replaced the wheel barrow tyre with an Airtrak prior to first flight,
there
was clearance between the tyre sidewall and forks then, albeit small,
now
find after 7 hours and 24 cycles the tyre is now lightly rubbing against
the
forks.
This subject, from memory has been raised on here before, cannot fully
remember the fix, would someone be kind enough to reiterate their proven
procedure.
Regards
Peter
#198
Message 4
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| Subject: | AAIB report G-HOFC |
The report into the accident to G-HOFC was published by AAIB yesterday. Go
to:
www.aaib.dft.gov.uk <http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/> and look in the May
2008 Bulletin link.
David
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AOA probe design |
At 2008-05-09 08:42 +0100 William Harrison wrote:
>I am looking for a sensible AOA probe to feed my Dynon D100. The
>Dynon probe is ghastly - very big and heavy so I won't use that.
>
>I can't see what's wrong with a small, light weight probe based on
>the same principle, ie an angled face with a hole in it. Has anyone
>else designed their own and if so how well did it work?
>
>Anyone know of a good off the shelf probe suitable for the Dynon
I don't know of an off-the shelf probe, but I wonder if something
like the attached PDF would do the trick. Any half-competent machine
shop should be able to produce a similar item, even scaled down a bit
if thought desirable.
I found the file in my "AOA" folder and I'm afraid I don't know where
I got it, although the "airsoob" part of the filename is probably a
clue.
regards
Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AW: Switch for Hobbs. |
At 2008-05-07 16:12 -0700 rampil wrote:
>The simplest device requiring no connections at all is the vibration-
>sensitive timer made by ENM
Ira - sounds great ... then I realised that there is no way to turn
it off, and so it will probably record road time in the trailer for
me as well as air time!
regards
Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AOA probe design |
Many thanks, Roland, that's very helpful.
Best wishes
Willie
On 9 May 2008, at 12:25, Rowland Carson wrote:
> At 2008-05-09 08:42 +0100 William Harrison wrote:
>
>> I am looking for a sensible AOA probe to feed my Dynon D100. The
>> Dynon probe is ghastly - very big and heavy so I won't use that.
>>
>> I can't see what's wrong with a small, light weight probe based on
>> the same principle, ie an angled face with a hole in it. Has
>> anyone else designed their own and if so how well did it work?
>>
>> Anyone know of a good off the shelf probe suitable for the Dynon
>
> I don't know of an off-the shelf probe, but I wonder if something
> like the attached PDF would do the trick. Any half-competent
> machine shop should be able to produce a similar item, even scaled
> down a bit if thought desirable.
>
> I found the file in my "AOA" folder and I'm afraid I don't know
> where I got it, although the "airsoob" part of the filename is
> probably a clue.
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
> --
> 'w' ...<airsoob_aoa_probe.pdf>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sight Gague Tubing |
Jim & Heather.
I've had no luck with any of the flexible plastic tubing.
As far as possible, I have replaced it with auto fuel injector hose.
Aircraft Spruce list clear PVC pipe, used in Quickie as fuel level
gauge, p/n 03-54100,
however the diameter is larger, and I could not see an easy way of
plumbing it in
without risking a further source of fuel leakage.
Dave
On 8-May-08, at 2:16 PM, h&jeuropa wrote:
>
> During the repair of our Europa, I replaced the fuel system tubing
> and sight gauge tubing which was original. It was getting hard and
> discolored. I used Tygon F4040 tubing which the data sheet says is
> gasoline tolerent.
>
> After doing all that, I had reason to inspect a section of Tygon
> F4040 that serves as the siphon hose in the main fuel tank when the
> Europa Aux fuel tank is fitted. That Tygon was discolored and
> quite hard after being in place for a couple of years. This is
> making me wonder about my use of it elsewhere in the fuel system.
>
> What tubing have others used with success for fuel tank venting and
> fuel sight gauge?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim & Heather
> N241BW
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181965#181965
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
After reading the report I am left not fully understanding which came
first.....thus causing the second.
Did the rear lift/drag pin of the right wing fail, causing enough up and
down movement to overstress the tailplane enough for it to disengage from the
tailplane drive pins, causing significant up and down gyrations to cause the
further and final failure of the right wing?
Or did the tailplane disengaging cause the failure of the right wing rear
lift/drag pin?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300A
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: AW: Switch for Hobbs. |
Rowland,
That could well be a problem.
There actually a loop of wire in the back of the meter which you
cut to activate the timer. You could splice in a switch to detect wings
on, airspeed>60, etc. If trailering is frequent though, I'd look for a
different solution. N224xs lives in a hangar far from my old
earthquake shaken home of KSQL
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182211#182211
Message 11
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| Subject: | AAIB report G-HOFC |
I think the report is very detailed. The failure of the drag pin caused the
whole scenario. The tailplanes had nothing to do with it. But who knows, i
f the tailplanes had remained in place, would a survivable crash landing be
en possible ?
Karl<html><div></div>
From: DuaneFamly@aol.comDate: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:01:12 -0400Subject: Re: Eu
ropa-List: AAIB report G-HOFCTo: europa-list@matronics.com
After reading the report I am left not fully understanding which came first
.....thus causing the second.
Did the rear lift/drag pin of the right wing fail, causing enough up and do
wn movement to overstress the tailplane enough for it to disengage from the
tailplane drive pins, causing significant up and down gyrations to cause t
he further and final failure of the right wing?
Or did the tailplane disengaging cause the failure of the right wing rear l
ift/drag pin?
Mike Duane A207ARedding, CaliforniaXS Conventional GearJabiru 3300ASensenic
h R64Z NGround Adjustable Prop
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at
AOL Food.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
Mike,
I know that for some time now the AAIB and the PFA/LAA have been looking
at the failure of the right hand wing rear drag pin being the cause of
the accident and you can certainly read that into the report, but I
agree that it does take some reading to figure it all out.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
----- Original Message -----
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAIB report G-HOFC
After reading the report I am left not fully understanding which came
first.....thus causing the second.
Did the rear lift/drag pin of the right wing fail, causing enough up
and down movement to overstress the tailplane enough for it to disengage
from the tailplane drive pins, causing significant up and down gyrations
to cause the further and final failure of the right wing?
Or did the tailplane disengaging cause the failure of the right wing
rear lift/drag pin?
Mike Duane A207A
Message 13
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| Subject: | For Sale - Skyforce Skymap IIIC - NEW - Latest Database |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new-in-box Skyforce Skymap IIIC full color GPS moving map with Topo.
The database and firmware were just upgraded 05/2008. Includes a Panel
Mounting bracket, GPS Antenna, cigarette lighter adapter, carrying case, and all
manuals. Brand new, never used. No scratches. The pictures below are of
the actual unit. The LCD color display on the IIIC is extremely nice and very
bright. Gives altitude readout. RS232 output.
I have over $2500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200 plus
shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle@matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - Skyforce Skymap IIIC w/ GPS and Americas Database. . .$2367.00 . .$2367.00
1ea - Panel Mount. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$98.00 . . .$98.00
1ea - Firmware and Database Update 5/8/2008. . . . . . . . . .$50.00 . . .$50.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2515.00
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
Karl,
I don't see how failure of the drag pin leading to flap flutter and
dissolution of the wing would have been survivable in case.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182241#182241
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
Chicken or egg?
I think that was the underlyng conclusion (i.e. they don't know)
although the BBC has interpreted in its news 'report' that it was the
wing pin failure that caused the aeroplane to crash; which in a way is
true, but possibly an oversimplification.
The AAIB report has the flavour of having been poorly drafted, then
amended a number of times by a number of other people. Either way, the
report uses the would "if" a lot of times and the word "would" where one
would expect "could". But otherwise it would read even more
speculatively.
DuncanMcF
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAIB report G-HOFC
After reading the report I am left not fully understanding which came
first.....thus causing the second.
Did the rear lift/drag pin of the right wing fail, causing enough up
and down movement to overstress the tailplane enough for it to disengage
from the tailplane drive pins, causing significant up and down gyrations
to cause the further and final failure of the right wing?
Or did the tailplane disengaging cause the failure of the right wing
rear lift/drag pin?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300A
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: AOA probe design |
Have a look at my Homegrown AOA at:
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=Begin-06-2003&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
under:
Homegrown AOA.
Ron Parigoris
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
Duncan, I disagree. I think the report reads as a very well thought out
account of detailed detective work, and that the conclusion that the wing
lift pin failure was the primary cause is entirely convincing. I would
rather have believed that the tail was the primary problem, but the lack of
metallurgical or other evidence of tailplane flutter, together with the
findings of the opened up holes in the outer alloy plates securing the Right
lift/drag pin, is enough to convince me.
Having said that I don't feel that a prolonged discussion of the
minutiae of the report will be a great help to William and Paul's relatives.
Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAIB report G-HOFC
Chicken or egg?
I think that was the underlyng conclusion (i.e. they don't know) although
the BBC has interpreted in its news 'report' that it was the wing pin
failure that caused the aeroplane to crash; which in a way is true, but
possibly an oversimplification.
The AAIB report has the flavour of having been poorly drafted, then amended
a number of times by a number of other people. Either way, the report uses
the would "if" a lot of times and the word "would" where one would expect
"could". But otherwise it would read even more speculatively.
DuncanMcF
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAIB report G-HOFC
After reading the report I am left not fully understanding which came
first.....thus causing the second.
Did the rear lift/drag pin of the right wing fail, causing enough up and
down movement to overstress the tailplane enough for it to disengage from
the tailplane drive pins, causing significant up and down gyrations to cause
the further and final failure of the right wing?
Or did the tailplane disengaging cause the failure of the right wing rear
lift/drag pin?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300A
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at
AOL Food.
Message 18
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| Subject: | For Sale - RMI uEncoder - NEW - Assembled |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uEncoder. The uEncoder just
had all of the latest hardware and software updates factory installed including
the new high contrast LCD display supporting Fahrenheit temp readings AND
the new LED fiberoptic backlight. The uEncoder displays airspeed, altitude, fpm,
OAT, and outputs Mode C data for most transponders.
The uEncoder is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material
and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table
below lists all of the items included.
I have nearly $1500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $1100
plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle@matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - RMI microENCODER ASSEMBLED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1179.00 . $1179.00
1ea - RMI Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp, US Miles),
. . . . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware . . . . . $ 315.00 . $ 315.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1494.00
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
David,
<<...prolonged discussion of the
> minutiae of the report will be a great help to William and Paul's
> relatives.
...>>
I agree with that.
Rgds.,
Duncan.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAIB report G-HOFC
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Duncan, I disagree. I think the report reads as a very well thought out
> account of detailed detective work, and that the conclusion that the wing
> lift pin failure was the primary cause is entirely convincing. I would
> rather have believed that the tail was the primary problem, but the lack
> of metallurgical or other evidence of tailplane flutter, together with the
> findings of the opened up holes in the outer alloy plates securing the
> Right lift/drag pin, is enough to convince me.
> Having said that I don't feel that a prolonged discussion of the
> minutiae of the report will be a great help to William and Paul's
> relatives.
> Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAIB report G-HOFC
>
>
> Chicken or egg?
> I think that was the underlyng conclusion (i.e. they don't know) although
> the BBC has interpreted in its news 'report' that it was the wing pin
> failure that caused the aeroplane to crash; which in a way is true, but
> possibly an oversimplification.
>
> The AAIB report has the flavour of having been poorly drafted, then
> amended a number of times by a number of other people. Either way, the
> report uses the would "if" a lot of times and the word "would" where one
> would expect "could". But otherwise it would read even more speculatively.
>
> DuncanMcF
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAIB report G-HOFC
>
>
> After reading the report I am left not fully understanding which came
> first.....thus causing the second.
>
> Did the rear lift/drag pin of the right wing fail, causing enough up and
> down movement to overstress the tailplane enough for it to disengage from
> the tailplane drive pins, causing significant up and down gyrations to
> cause the further and final failure of the right wing?
>
> Or did the tailplane disengaging cause the failure of the right wing rear
> lift/drag pin?
>
>
> Mike Duane A207A
> Redding, California
> XS Conventional Gear
> Jabiru 3300A
> Sensenich R64Z N
> Ground Adjustable Prop
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites
> at AOL Food.
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
I don't believe that the experts, the AAIB, publish these reports lightly -
and I certainly don't think that their findings should be queried on this site
by a lot of people who think they know better..
If you want to talk about it do it verbally, but out of respect for William
and Paul's relatives, leave it out of print.
Trev Pond
G-LINN
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: AAIB report G-HOFC |
I visited the AAIB a few weeks ago and by chance got to speak to the
lead inspector on G-HOFC. He was very clear that it was the wing drag/
lift pin which initiated the break up and they had abandoned their
earlier hypothesis that the tail failed first..
Also, I'd have to add how utterly sobering it was to look at the
wreckage - if you set out to cut a Europa into so many pieces with a
chainsaw it would be a day's work.
Willie
On 9 May 2008, at 18:01, DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote:
> After reading the report I am left not fully understanding which
> came first.....thus causing the second.
>
> Did the rear lift/drag pin of the right wing fail, causing enough
> up and down movement to overstress the tailplane enough for it to
> disengage from the tailplane drive pins, causing significant up and
> down gyrations to cause the further and final failure of the right
> wing?
>
> Or did the tailplane disengaging cause the failure of the right
> wing rear lift/drag pin?
>
>
> Mike Duane A207A
> Redding, California
> XS Conventional Gear
> Jabiru 3300A
> Sensenich R64Z N
> Ground Adjustable Prop
>
>
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
> favorites at AOL Food.
>
>
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