---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/09/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:02 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling (trevpond@aol.com) 2. 02:11 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (David Joyce) 3. 02:27 AM - Re: there are pilots who have and .... (David Joyce) 4. 04:16 AM - DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (Paddy Clarke) 5. 04:21 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B (josok) 6. 05:38 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Robert Borger) 7. 06:47 AM - Re: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (trevpond@aol.com) 8. 01:48 PM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Raimo Toivio) 9. 03:04 PM - rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (Rowland Carson) 10. 07:44 PM - Re: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (Fred Klein) 11. 11:34 PM - fuel injected 912 is running great (jason Parker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling From: trevpond@aol.com Hi Ian, Have you changed your coolant reservoir cap since taking out the evans? regards Trev G-LINN -----Original Message----- From: G-IANI Sent: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:30 Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling G-IRON, has a 914 that has suddenly developed a tendency to boil. Nothing has been done to the aircraft to precipitate this. Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out (at about 500ft). It will then stop boiling during the flight. On landing it will boil again as you come to rest. The boiling is quite gentle, not a big explosion of steam. It is filled with water/glycol. We have been over everything looking for hot spots such as a coolant pipe in contact with the exhaust and all is as it should be. The Rads have been checked and they are both OK. Has anyone got any ideas that might help Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:29 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). Raimo, Congratulations on your cool response (only 150bpm!) and survival! I hate lightning. Always find myself thinking about the UK glider whose wing actually blew apart. In thinking how to prepare my plane for a trip to Australia (where close encounters with lightning are almost inevitable) I came across the attached in a 2001 CAA paper on lightning protection, (the earlier pages were all about tin aircraft), which says: 4 Gliders. Attention should be given to these aircraft, especially those of non metallic structure, and bonding straps should be installed between the extremities to conduct any strike away from the flying controls. A point to remember is that bonding should run as straight as possible avoiding loops formed by excess lengths at, for example, transport joints, since a lightning strike will jump across any sharp loops or bends. Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel, and probably also a similar strap from the engine frame along the tunnel to the tail wheel spring. Would weigh probably less than a kg. What do you think? Regards David Joyce, G-XSDJ, Mono XS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:25 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Jos, I have a fair amount of relevant experience in the matter (!), particularly in gliding, and I suspect that pilots who are convinced they have put the gear down will not be persuaded otherwise by a warning horn. I have known a glider fly a 100km task with the gear down and then carefully pull it up and land ignoring the gear up warning noise! (Assuming it must be some malfunction because the pilot knew he had just done the gear) Now I would rather rely on a simple check list rigidly applied on down wind and finals: PUFF = Prop/Undercarriage/Fuel/ Flap. Undercarriage and flap both demand visual confirmation. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "josok" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... > > Thanks to everybody for the condolences and good advice. I would like to > help preventing others to fall in the same or similar trap.Looking back, > it is interesting to see where and why it went wrong. > > On the Norwegian CAA site, is it http://www.ipppc.no ? sits a paper called > VFR flying in Norway. It contains a list of factors, that tend to break > the weakest link in flying security, us pilots. From the list, being > tired, weather (too hot for me), unfamiliar airport, and also the first > flight show to attend were the stress factors. > > The first mistake was to not turn the approach chart in track up position. > I always use maps and the gps in track up. Flying South, i ended up on the > wrong final. Went around and ended up on the right side, but too high and > too fast. No problem, gear up, and go around for the second time. > Concentrated on the runway, and started to lower the flaps/wheel, heard > them noise, because the speed was about 100 knots. Left them half, turned > final, did my on final check list, second pump on, constant speed > controller on climb, gear down and locked. I remember to be a little > confused that the lock was not in the usual position, but i was sure the > handle was... UP. I noticed i was still fast, slowed down, stall warner > blaring at 55, what i threw away as a mistake, was annoyed that the nose > was too high, added a bit of power to soften the bounce :-) That there was > no bounce, and a lot of smoke and noise brought me out of the fixation i > had had. > > My conclusion, and maybe only valid for me, is to be more critical BEFORE > the flight. I promised myself not ever to accept more then 2 of the "do > not fly" list. Since i clearly remember to have seen the gear lever up on > the "ready for final check", i do not think that any clever gear up alarm > would have convinced me that there was something wrong. Wrong speed, wrong > picture, wrong stall horn and: The final error was "up is good" > > The second promise to myself is from Kjell, that if i feel it is not going > as expected. to break out, leave the circuit, take five. Come back later! > > I have to add that i just landed, it was very bumpy, the wind was gusting, > an amphibious Cessna blew a tyre and blocked the runway i was on downwind > for, the tower send me to another runway, asked if i could accept 15 knots > gusting 25 crosswind, and i had a perfect landing. This one went like, oh > not again, you are not getting me :-) > > Regards > > Jos > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:37 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield Hi Folks, The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how about a DOTH?. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose Andrewsfield. Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish, Cheers, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B From: "josok" In my humble opinion it's a very good idea to create a better path for lightning outside the wings. 2 things come to mind: The better the conductor, the less change for heat generation. The tie-bar is not an optimal conductor and there should be a well connected copper or aluminium bar/wire parallel to it. The other obvious place to strike are the position lights. Maybe it's a good idea to run their ground over the outside mesh, and not through a wire inside the wing. The feed wires are usually longer and thus form a less interesting path for a strike. I've seen brick walls blown apart because the lightning followed a path over a wire in that wall. The wire was stripped and still in place! Something for my next winter to-do list. And if ever possible, i will still avoid thunderstorms. Regards, Jos Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:11 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). Raimo, Thank goodness you and your passenger were not harmed. Two folks have now shown that it is possible to survive a lightning strike in the Europa. Gents, that's enough. No further need for continued demonstrations! I appreciate your candor in the description of the event. We all need to learn from our collective experiences. Now take a brief rest with the family while you investigate and repair the damage. Then you'll be ready to get back on that horse and ride again. Check six, Bob Borger On Sunday, June 08, 2008, at 05:28PM, "Raimo Toivio" wrote: > >Hi all > >My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: > >I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). >Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. >Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly between them. >Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, airspeed 130 knots, >ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded near MTOW >658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite strong lightnings >both sides. > >Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my right hand from the power lever. >My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. >Very heavy raining started immediately. >Radio started awful whistling and whining. > >What the hell was happening we asked each others. >Plane was still flying well. >We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. >Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. >I was checking all the equipments I could. > >During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any more (I have those green MAC leds). >I tried to trim but nothing happened. >CB (Europa suplied) was in position. >I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting switch but nothing happened. >Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim auto-run case. > >I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he stated that if it goes to the other side, >it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was this morning! > >So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus like several fire trucks, police and >ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what happens during flaps/gear lowering. >You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 knots. > >During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY heavy but still controlable. >Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. >I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best monowheel landing ever >(like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). > >ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and OH-XRT was still in one piece. > >I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work by itself. >Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. > >We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough stbd-side stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent sticker) was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. > >That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a bottle of bier. > >BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it was 150. > >That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last summer a serioush but super lucky >forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was working uppsidedown. >That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic Airservice. > >Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. > >I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. >If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and check it carefully. >I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. > >Have you there any ideas for me, please? > >Raimo >OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield From: trevpond@aol.com Hi Paddy, Would have loved it but in France at the moment, returning tomorrow 5ish.?? All the best Trev G-LINN -----Original Message----- From: Paddy Clarke Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:13 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield ? Hi Folks,? The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how about a DOTH?. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose Andrewsfield.? Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish,? Cheers, Paddy? ? Paddy Clarke? ? Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:00 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). Paul, I read your lightning story and all went basically like mine yesterday "I have a shut off knob on the tunnel for the air box which supplies ventilation for the cabin and my knee was leaning up against it. I guess there is about 4 feet of cable, but it was enough to induce a significant voltage to electrocute me." That was for me an experience I will never forget. My Europas damages were anyway childrens play but it is always nice to belong to the same club as you. Do they say the strike does not hit the same plane never again, do they ??? Wishes, Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). > > Hi Ramio, > > Well I guess you have joined the club. Take a look at > http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html, click on the left hand pane > under flying experiences and you can read about the damage my aircraft > took with my lightning strike. > > By the way, I bought a lottery ticket straight after my hit but i > didn't win anything. I assume that I have used up all of my luck > > Cheers, Paul > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:09 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module I'm just starting to highlight the trimming lines on the cockpit module with a fine felt-tip pen so I can see where to cut. I'm puzzled by the marks on the starboard side of the centre tunnel, at the side of the seat area. My printed manual does not identify any individual holes, but the PDF manual from the factory website marks it and the corresponding one on port as "rudder pulley access holes". The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the starboard side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly overlapping. The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is not. Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, and I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. Perhaps the inboard position was marked in error and both correct ones have been hatched to better identify them. Roger at the factory says he thinks it should be the hatched one, but does anyone know any better before I start cutting? regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module From: Fred Klein On Monday, Jun 9, 2008, at 15:00 US/Pacific, Rowland Carson wrote: > The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are > asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port > side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the starboard > side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly overlapping. > The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is not. > > Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? > > My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about > the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central > narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the > seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, and > I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the > centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - > thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. Rowland, Though I can no longer see the hairlines indicating the access hole locations, you are correct in reasoning that the holes want to be in the same relationship to the seat flanges, NOT in the same relationship to the central narrow part of the tunnel which I mistakenly used when I made my initial cuts. (Easily remedied w/ a small patch and some 5 min. epoxy.) Take the starboard side as a guide and duplicate it on the port side and you'll be good to go. Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:34 PM PST US From: jason Parker Subject: Europa-List: fuel injected 912 is running great Read about how I fuel injected my Titan Tornado in 3 weeks. Ialso have a customer with a Europa who has one of my 914's. He will be ready to fire up his engine in a month or two. mine is runningGreat! I'll add some videos on UTUBE and a link on my site.www.experimentalfuelinjection.com/wst_page4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.