---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/10/08: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:46 AM - Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/09/08 (Tim Ward) 2. 02:51 AM - Re: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (G-IANI) 3. 04:21 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/09/08 (JR Gowing) 4. 04:46 AM - Lightning bonding (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 5. 05:42 AM - Re: Comm Antenna (h&jeuropa) 6. 07:04 AM - Re: Lightning bonding (Fred Klein) 7. 08:23 AM - cockpit module trimming (Rowland Carson) 8. 08:35 AM - Re: Lightning bonding (Carl Pattinson) 9. 08:43 AM - Re: Lightning bonding (Christoph Both) 10. 09:48 AM - Re: Lightning bonding (William Daniell) 11. 10:32 AM - Re: Lightning bonding (Pete Lawless) 12. 11:12 AM - Advisory to Notice of Sale (johnb) 13. 12:23 PM - Re: Lightning bonding (William Daniell) 14. 01:09 PM - Re: Lightning bonding (rampil) 15. 01:20 PM - FW: Glider wings (Karl Heindl) 16. 01:39 PM - Apology and Suggestions? (Paddy Clarke) 17. 01:42 PM - Re: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty (ALAN YERLY) 18. 02:17 PM - Re: Apology and Suggestions? (William Harrison) 19. 02:17 PM - Re: Apology and Suggestions? (Tony Crowe) 20. 02:51 PM - Re: Lightning bonding (Pete Lawless) 21. 03:14 PM - Re: Lightning bonding (David Joyce) 22. 03:28 PM - Re: Lightning bonding (William Daniell) 23. 03:32 PM - Re: FW: Glider wings (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 24. 04:05 PM - Re: FW: Glider wings (Karl Heindl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:50 AM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Europa-List: Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/09/08 First snow landing of a Europa in New Zealand!!! Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, CHRISTCHURCH 8052 NEW ZEALAND Ph :64 03 3515166 Mob: 021 0640221 > > email: > ward.t@xtra.co.nz >> ================================================= >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================= >> >> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-06-09&Archive=Europa >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-06-09&Archive=Europa >> >> >> =============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> =============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Europa-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Mon 06/09/08: 11 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 02:02 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >> (trevpond@aol.com) >> 2. 02:11 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (David Joyce) >> 3. 02:27 AM - Re: there are pilots who have and .... (David Joyce) >> 4. 04:16 AM - DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (Paddy Clarke) >> 5. 04:21 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B >> (josok) >> 6. 05:38 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Robert Borger) >> 7. 06:47 AM - Re: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (trevpond@aol.com) >> 8. 01:48 PM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Raimo Toivio) >> 9. 03:04 PM - rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (Rowland >> Carson) >> 10. 07:44 PM - Re: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (Fred >> Klein) >> 11. 11:34 PM - fuel injected 912 is running great (jason Parker) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 02:02:50 AM PST US >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >> From: trevpond@aol.com >> >> Hi Ian, >> >> Have you changed your coolant reservoir cap since taking out the evans? >> >> regards >> >> >> Trev >> G-LINN >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: G-IANI >> Sent: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:30 >> Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >> >> >> >> >> G-IRON, has a 914 that has suddenly developed a tendency to boil. >> Nothing has been done to the aircraft to precipitate this. >> >> Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out >> (at about 500ft). It will then stop boiling during the flight. On >> landing it will boil again as you come to rest. The boiling is quite >> gentle, not a big explosion of steam. It is filled with water/glycol. >> >> We have been over everything looking for hot spots such as a coolant >> pipe in contact with the exhaust and all is as it should be. The Rads >> have been checked and they are both OK. >> >> Has anyone got any ideas that might help >> >> Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours >> Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) >> e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk >> or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 02:11:29 AM PST US >> From: "David Joyce" >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >> Raimo, Congratulations on your cool response (only 150bpm!) and survival! >> I hate lightning. Always find myself thinking about the UK glider >> whose >> wing actually blew apart. In thinking how to prepare my plane for a trip >> to >> Australia (where close encounters with lightning are almost inevitable) I >> came across the attached in a 2001 CAA paper on lightning protection, >> (the >> earlier pages were all about tin aircraft), which says: >> 4 Gliders. Attention should be given to these aircraft, especially >> those of non metallic structure, and bonding straps should be installed >> between the extremities to conduct any strike away from the flying >> controls. >> A point to remember is that bonding should run as straight as possible >> avoiding loops formed by excess lengths at, for example, transport >> joints, >> since a lightning strike will jump across any sharp loops or bends. >> Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along >> the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow >> wing >> tip to wing tip lightning travel, and probably also a similar strap from >> the >> engine frame along the tunnel to the tail wheel spring. Would weigh >> probably >> less than a kg. What do you think? >> Regards David Joyce, G-XSDJ, Mono XS >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Raimo Toivio" >> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:31 PM >> Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 3 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 02:27:25 AM PST US >> From: "David Joyce" >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... >> >> >> Jos, I have a fair amount of relevant experience in the matter (!), >> particularly in gliding, and I suspect that pilots who are convinced >> they >> have put the gear down will not be persuaded otherwise by a warning horn. >> I >> have known a glider fly a 100km task with the gear down and then >> carefully >> pull it up and land ignoring the gear up warning noise! (Assuming it must >> be >> some malfunction because the pilot knew he had just done the gear) >> Now I would rather rely on a simple check list rigidly applied on >> down wind and finals: PUFF = Prop/Undercarriage/Fuel/ Flap. Undercarriage >> and flap both demand visual confirmation. >> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "josok" >> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:44 PM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... >> >> >>> >>> Thanks to everybody for the condolences and good advice. I would like to >>> help preventing others to fall in the same or similar trap.Looking back, >>> it is interesting to see where and why it went wrong. >>> >>> On the Norwegian CAA site, is it http://www.ipppc.no ? sits a paper >>> called >>> VFR flying in Norway. It contains a list of factors, that tend to break >>> the weakest link in flying security, us pilots. From the list, being >>> tired, weather (too hot for me), unfamiliar airport, and also the first >>> flight show to attend were the stress factors. >>> >>> The first mistake was to not turn the approach chart in track up >>> position. >>> I always use maps and the gps in track up. Flying South, i ended up on >>> the >>> wrong final. Went around and ended up on the right side, but too high >>> and >>> too fast. No problem, gear up, and go around for the second time. >>> Concentrated on the runway, and started to lower the flaps/wheel, heard >>> them noise, because the speed was about 100 knots. Left them half, >>> turned >>> final, did my on final check list, second pump on, constant speed >>> controller on climb, gear down and locked. I remember to be a little >>> confused that the lock was not in the usual position, but i was sure the >>> handle was... UP. I noticed i was still fast, slowed down, stall warner >>> blaring at 55, what i threw away as a mistake, was annoyed that the nose >>> was too high, added a bit of power to soften the bounce :-) That there >>> was >>> no bounce, and a lot of smoke and noise brought me out of the fixation i >>> had had. >>> >>> My conclusion, and maybe only valid for me, is to be more critical >>> BEFORE >>> the flight. I promised myself not ever to accept more then 2 of the "do >>> not fly" list. Since i clearly remember to have seen the gear lever up >>> on >>> the "ready for final check", i do not think that any clever gear up >>> alarm >>> would have convinced me that there was something wrong. Wrong speed, >>> wrong >>> picture, wrong stall horn and: The final error was "up is good" >>> >>> The second promise to myself is from Kjell, that if i feel it is not >>> going >>> as expected. to break out, leave the circuit, take five. Come back >>> later! >>> >>> I have to add that i just landed, it was very bumpy, the wind was >>> gusting, >>> an amphibious Cessna blew a tyre and blocked the runway i was on >>> downwind >>> for, the tower send me to another runway, asked if i could accept 15 >>> knots >>> gusting 25 crosswind, and i had a perfect landing. This one went like, >>> oh >>> not again, you are not getting me :-) >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Jos >>> >>> >>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 04:16:37 AM PST US >> From: Paddy Clarke >> Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >> >> >> Hi Folks, >> The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how >> about a DOTH?. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose >> Andrewsfield. >> Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish, >> Cheers, Paddy >> >> >> Paddy Clarke >> >> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 04:21:24 AM PST US >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B >> From: "josok" >> >> >> In my humble opinion it's a very good idea to create a better path for >> lightning >> outside the wings. 2 things come to mind: The better the conductor, the >> less >> change for heat generation. The tie-bar is not an optimal conductor and >> there >> should be a well connected copper or aluminium bar/wire parallel to it. >> The other >> obvious place to strike are the position lights. Maybe it's a good idea >> to >> run their ground over the outside mesh, and not through a wire inside the >> wing. >> The feed wires are usually longer and thus form a less interesting path >> for >> a strike. I've seen brick walls blown apart because the lightning >> followed >> a path over a wire in that wall. The wire was stripped and still in >> place! >> Something >> for my next winter to-do list. And if ever possible, i will still avoid >> thunderstorms. >> >> Regards, >> >> Jos >> >> >> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 6 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 05:38:11 AM PST US >> From: Robert Borger >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >> Raimo, >> >> Thank goodness you and your passenger were not harmed. Two folks have >> now >> shown >> that it is possible to survive a lightning strike in the Europa. >> >> Gents, that's enough. No further need for continued demonstrations! >> >> I appreciate your candor in the description of the event. We all need to >> learn >> from our collective experiences. >> >> Now take a brief rest with the family while you investigate and repair >> the >> damage. >> Then you'll be ready to get back on that horse and ride again. >> >> Check six, >> Bob Borger >> >> On Sunday, June 08, 2008, at 05:28PM, "Raimo Toivio" >> >> wrote: >>> >>>Hi all >>> >>>My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: >>> >>>I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). >>>Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. >>>Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly >>>between >> them. >>>Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, >>>airspeed 130 >> knots, >>>ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded >>>near MTOW >>>658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite >>>strong lightnings >>>both sides. >>> >>>Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my >>>right >>>hand >> from the power lever. >>>My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. >>>Very heavy raining started immediately. >>>Radio started awful whistling and whining. >>> >>>What the hell was happening we asked each others. >>>Plane was still flying well. >>>We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. >>>Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. >>>I was checking all the equipments I could. >>> >>>During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any more >>>(I have >> those green MAC leds). >>>I tried to trim but nothing happened. >>>CB (Europa suplied) was in position. >>>I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting >>>switch >>>but >> nothing happened. >>>Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim >>>auto-run case. >>> >>>I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he stated >>>that >> if it goes to the other side, >>>it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was >>>this >> morning! >>> >>>So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus >>>like >> several fire trucks, police and >>>ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what happens >>>during >> flaps/gear lowering. >>>You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 >>>knots. >>> >>>During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY >>>heavy >> but still controlable. >>>Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. >>>I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best >>>monowheel >> landing ever >>>(like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). >>> >>>ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and >>>OH-XRT >> was still in one piece. >>> >>>I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work >>>by itself. >>>Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. >>> >>>We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough >>>stbd-side >> stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent >> sticker) >> was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. >>> >>>That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a >>>bottle of >> bier. >>> >>>BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it was >>>150. >>> >>>That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last >>>summer a >> serioush but super lucky >>>forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was working >>>uppsidedown. >>>That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic >>>Airservice. >>> >>>Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. >>> >>>I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. >>>If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and >>>check >>>it >> carefully. >>>I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. >>> >>>Have you there any ideas for me, please? >>> >>>Raimo >>>OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 7 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 06:47:36 AM PST US >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >> From: trevpond@aol.com >> >> Hi Paddy, >> >> Would have loved it but in France at the moment, returning tomorrow >> 5ish.?? >> >> All the best >> >> >> Trev >> G-LINN >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Paddy Clarke >> Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:13 >> Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >> >> >> ? >> Hi Folks,? >> The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how about a >> DOTH?. >> Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose Andrewsfield.? >> Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish,? >> Cheers, Paddy? >> ? >> Paddy Clarke? >> ? >> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM? >> ? >> ? >> ? >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> ________________________________ Message 8 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 01:48:00 PM PST US >> From: "Raimo Toivio" >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >> Paul, >> >> I read your lightning story and all went basically like mine yesterday >> >> "I have a shut off knob on the tunnel for the air box which supplies >> ventilation >> for the cabin and my knee was leaning up against it. I guess there is >> about >> 4 feet of cable, but it was enough to induce a significant voltage to >> electrocute >> me." >> >> That was for me an experience I will never forget. >> >> My Europas damages were anyway childrens play but it is always nice to >> belong to >> the same club as you. >> >> Do they say the strike does not hit the same plane never again, do they >> ??? >> >> Wishes, Raimo >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul McAllister" >> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:58 AM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >>> >>> Hi Ramio, >>> >>> Well I guess you have joined the club. Take a look at >>> http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html, click on the left hand pane >>> under flying experiences and you can read about the damage my aircraft >>> took with my lightning strike. >>> >>> By the way, I bought a lottery ticket straight after my hit but i >>> didn't win anything. I assume that I have used up all of my luck >>> >>> Cheers, Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 9 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 03:04:09 PM PST US >> From: Rowland Carson >> Subject: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module >> >> >> I'm just starting to highlight the trimming lines on the cockpit >> module with a fine felt-tip pen so I can see where to cut. >> >> I'm puzzled by the marks on the starboard side of the centre tunnel, >> at the side of the seat area. My printed manual does not identify any >> individual holes, but the PDF manual from the factory website marks >> it and the corresponding one on port as "rudder pulley access holes". >> The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are >> asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port >> side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the >> starboard side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly >> overlapping. The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is >> not. >> >> Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? >> >> My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about >> the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central >> narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the >> seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, >> and I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the >> centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - >> thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. Perhaps >> the inboard position was marked in error and both correct ones have >> been hatched to better identify them. >> >> Roger at the factory says he thinks it should be the hatched one, but >> does anyone know any better before I start cutting? >> >> regards >> >> Rowland >> -- >> | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ >> | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 10 >> ____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 07:44:31 PM PST US >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module >> From: Fred Klein >> >> >> >> On Monday, Jun 9, 2008, at 15:00 US/Pacific, Rowland Carson wrote: >> >>> The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are >>> asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port >>> side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the starboard >>> side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly overlapping. >>> The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is not. >>> >>> Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? >>> >>> My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about >>> the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central >>> narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the >>> seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, and >>> I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the >>> centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - >>> thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. >> >> Rowland, >> >> Though I can no longer see the hairlines indicating the access hole >> locations, you are correct in reasoning that the holes want to be in >> the same relationship to the seat flanges, NOT in the same >> relationship to the central narrow part of the tunnel which I >> mistakenly used when I made my initial cuts. (Easily remedied w/ a >> small patch and some 5 min. epoxy.) Take the starboard side as a guide >> and duplicate it on the port side and you'll be good to go. >> >> Fred >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 11 >> ____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 11:34:34 PM PST US >> From: jason Parker >> Subject: Europa-List: fuel injected 912 is running great >> >> >> Read about how I fuel injected my Titan Tornado in 3 weeks. Ialso have a >> customer with a Europa who has one of my 914's. He will be ready to fire >> up his engine in a month or two. mine is runningGreat! I'll add some >> videos on UTUBE and a link on my >> site.www.experimentalfuelinjection.com/wst_page4 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:24 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module I remember my tunnel was confusingly marked. I think it was the hatched one. The logic is can you get a spanner on to the pulley nut via the hole. Something to think about is the need to make removable covers for these holes. You do not want you favourite pen falling into the pulley wheels. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:35 AM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/09/08 Tim And looking very lovely in the snow too! JR (Bob) Gowing Kit 327 in Oz Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ward" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: Europa-List: Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/09/08 > First snow landing of a Europa in New Zealand!!! > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street, > Fendalton, > CHRISTCHURCH 8052 > NEW ZEALAND > > Ph :64 03 3515166 > Mob: 021 0640221 >> >> email: >> ward.t@xtra.co.nz > >>> ================================================= >>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >>> ================================================= >>> >>> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the >>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >>> formatted >>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >>> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >>> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >>> >>> HTML Version: >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-06-09&Archive=Europa >>> >>> Text Version: >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-06-09&Archive=Europa >>> >>> >>> =============================================== >>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >>> =============================================== >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Europa-List Digest Archive >>> --- >>> Total Messages Posted Mon 06/09/08: 11 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> Today's Message Index: >>> ---------------------- >>> >>> 1. 02:02 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >>> (trevpond@aol.com) >>> 2. 02:11 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (David Joyce) >>> 3. 02:27 AM - Re: there are pilots who have and .... (David Joyce) >>> 4. 04:16 AM - DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (Paddy Clarke) >>> 5. 04:21 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B >>> (josok) >>> 6. 05:38 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Robert Borger) >>> 7. 06:47 AM - Re: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (trevpond@aol.com) >>> 8. 01:48 PM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Raimo Toivio) >>> 9. 03:04 PM - rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (Rowland >>> Carson) >>> 10. 07:44 PM - Re: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module >>> (Fred >>> Klein) >>> 11. 11:34 PM - fuel injected 912 is running great (jason Parker) >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 1 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 02:02:50 AM PST US >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >>> From: trevpond@aol.com >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> Have you changed your coolant reservoir cap since taking out the evans? >>> >>> regards >>> >>> >>> Trev >>> G-LINN >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: G-IANI >>> Sent: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:30 >>> Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> G-IRON, has a 914 that has suddenly developed a tendency to boil. >>> Nothing has been done to the aircraft to precipitate this. >>> >>> Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out >>> (at about 500ft). It will then stop boiling during the flight. On >>> landing it will boil again as you come to rest. The boiling is quite >>> gentle, not a big explosion of steam. It is filled with water/glycol. >>> >>> We have been over everything looking for hot spots such as a coolant >>> pipe in contact with the exhaust and all is as it should be. The Rads >>> have been checked and they are both OK. >>> >>> Has anyone got any ideas that might help >>> >>> Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours >>> Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) >>> e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk >>> or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 2 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 02:11:29 AM PST US >>> From: "David Joyce" >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby >>> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >>> >>> >>> Raimo, Congratulations on your cool response (only 150bpm!) and >>> survival! >>> I hate lightning. Always find myself thinking about the UK glider >>> whose >>> wing actually blew apart. In thinking how to prepare my plane for a trip >>> to >>> Australia (where close encounters with lightning are almost inevitable) >>> I >>> came across the attached in a 2001 CAA paper on lightning protection, >>> (the >>> earlier pages were all about tin aircraft), which says: >>> 4 Gliders. Attention should be given to these aircraft, especially >>> those of non metallic structure, and bonding straps should be installed >>> between the extremities to conduct any strike away from the flying >>> controls. >>> A point to remember is that bonding should run as straight as possible >>> avoiding loops formed by excess lengths at, for example, transport >>> joints, >>> since a lightning strike will jump across any sharp loops or bends. >>> Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right >>> along >>> the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow >>> wing >>> tip to wing tip lightning travel, and probably also a similar strap from >>> the >>> engine frame along the tunnel to the tail wheel spring. Would weigh >>> probably >>> less than a kg. What do you think? >>> Regards David Joyce, G-XSDJ, Mono XS >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Raimo Toivio" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:31 PM >>> Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby >>> Fly-inn Sweden >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 3 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 02:27:25 AM PST US >>> From: "David Joyce" >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... >>> >>> >>> Jos, I have a fair amount of relevant experience in the matter (!), >>> particularly in gliding, and I suspect that pilots who are convinced >>> they >>> have put the gear down will not be persuaded otherwise by a warning >>> horn. >>> I >>> have known a glider fly a 100km task with the gear down and then >>> carefully >>> pull it up and land ignoring the gear up warning noise! (Assuming it >>> must >>> be >>> some malfunction because the pilot knew he had just done the gear) >>> Now I would rather rely on a simple check list rigidly applied >>> on >>> down wind and finals: PUFF = Prop/Undercarriage/Fuel/ Flap. >>> Undercarriage >>> and flap both demand visual confirmation. >>> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "josok" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:44 PM >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks to everybody for the condolences and good advice. I would like >>>> to >>>> help preventing others to fall in the same or similar trap.Looking >>>> back, >>>> it is interesting to see where and why it went wrong. >>>> >>>> On the Norwegian CAA site, is it http://www.ipppc.no ? sits a paper >>>> called >>>> VFR flying in Norway. It contains a list of factors, that tend to break >>>> the weakest link in flying security, us pilots. From the list, being >>>> tired, weather (too hot for me), unfamiliar airport, and also the first >>>> flight show to attend were the stress factors. >>>> >>>> The first mistake was to not turn the approach chart in track up >>>> position. >>>> I always use maps and the gps in track up. Flying South, i ended up on >>>> the >>>> wrong final. Went around and ended up on the right side, but too high >>>> and >>>> too fast. No problem, gear up, and go around for the second time. >>>> Concentrated on the runway, and started to lower the flaps/wheel, heard >>>> them noise, because the speed was about 100 knots. Left them half, >>>> turned >>>> final, did my on final check list, second pump on, constant speed >>>> controller on climb, gear down and locked. I remember to be a little >>>> confused that the lock was not in the usual position, but i was sure >>>> the >>>> handle was... UP. I noticed i was still fast, slowed down, stall warner >>>> blaring at 55, what i threw away as a mistake, was annoyed that the >>>> nose >>>> was too high, added a bit of power to soften the bounce :-) That there >>>> was >>>> no bounce, and a lot of smoke and noise brought me out of the fixation >>>> i >>>> had had. >>>> >>>> My conclusion, and maybe only valid for me, is to be more critical >>>> BEFORE >>>> the flight. I promised myself not ever to accept more then 2 of the "do >>>> not fly" list. Since i clearly remember to have seen the gear lever up >>>> on >>>> the "ready for final check", i do not think that any clever gear up >>>> alarm >>>> would have convinced me that there was something wrong. Wrong speed, >>>> wrong >>>> picture, wrong stall horn and: The final error was "up is good" >>>> >>>> The second promise to myself is from Kjell, that if i feel it is not >>>> going >>>> as expected. to break out, leave the circuit, take five. Come back >>>> later! >>>> >>>> I have to add that i just landed, it was very bumpy, the wind was >>>> gusting, >>>> an amphibious Cessna blew a tyre and blocked the runway i was on >>>> downwind >>>> for, the tower send me to another runway, asked if i could accept 15 >>>> knots >>>> gusting 25 crosswind, and i had a perfect landing. This one went like, >>>> oh >>>> not again, you are not getting me :-) >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Jos >>>> >>>> >>>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 4 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 04:16:37 AM PST US >>> From: Paddy Clarke >>> Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >>> >>> >>> Hi Folks, >>> The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how >>> about a DOTH?. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose >>> Andrewsfield. >>> Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish, >>> Cheers, Paddy >>> >>> >>> Paddy Clarke >>> >>> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 5 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 04:21:24 AM PST US >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> B >>> From: "josok" >>> >>> >>> In my humble opinion it's a very good idea to create a better path for >>> lightning >>> outside the wings. 2 things come to mind: The better the conductor, the >>> less >>> change for heat generation. The tie-bar is not an optimal conductor and >>> there >>> should be a well connected copper or aluminium bar/wire parallel to it. >>> The other >>> obvious place to strike are the position lights. Maybe it's a good idea >>> to >>> run their ground over the outside mesh, and not through a wire inside >>> the >>> wing. >>> The feed wires are usually longer and thus form a less interesting path >>> for >>> a strike. I've seen brick walls blown apart because the lightning >>> followed >>> a path over a wire in that wall. The wire was stripped and still in >>> place! >>> Something >>> for my next winter to-do list. And if ever possible, i will still avoid >>> thunderstorms. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Jos >>> >>> >>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 6 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 05:38:11 AM PST US >>> From: Robert Borger >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby >>> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >>> >>> >>> Raimo, >>> >>> Thank goodness you and your passenger were not harmed. Two folks have >>> now >>> shown >>> that it is possible to survive a lightning strike in the Europa. >>> >>> Gents, that's enough. No further need for continued demonstrations! >>> >>> I appreciate your candor in the description of the event. We all need >>> to >>> learn >>> from our collective experiences. >>> >>> Now take a brief rest with the family while you investigate and repair >>> the >>> damage. >>> Then you'll be ready to get back on that horse and ride again. >>> >>> Check six, >>> Bob Borger >>> >>> On Sunday, June 08, 2008, at 05:28PM, "Raimo Toivio" >>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>Hi all >>>> >>>>My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: >>>> >>>>I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). >>>>Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. >>>>Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly >>>>between >>> them. >>>>Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, >>>>airspeed 130 >>> knots, >>>>ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded >>>>near MTOW >>>>658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite >>>>strong lightnings >>>>both sides. >>>> >>>>Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my >>>>right >>>>hand >>> from the power lever. >>>>My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. >>>>Very heavy raining started immediately. >>>>Radio started awful whistling and whining. >>>> >>>>What the hell was happening we asked each others. >>>>Plane was still flying well. >>>>We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. >>>>Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. >>>>I was checking all the equipments I could. >>>> >>>>During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any >>>>more >>>>(I have >>> those green MAC leds). >>>>I tried to trim but nothing happened. >>>>CB (Europa suplied) was in position. >>>>I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting >>>>switch >>>>but >>> nothing happened. >>>>Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim >>>>auto-run case. >>>> >>>>I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he >>>>stated >>>>that >>> if it goes to the other side, >>>>it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was >>>>this >>> morning! >>>> >>>>So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus >>>>like >>> several fire trucks, police and >>>>ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what >>>>happens >>>>during >>> flaps/gear lowering. >>>>You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 >>>>knots. >>>> >>>>During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY >>>>heavy >>> but still controlable. >>>>Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. >>>>I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best >>>>monowheel >>> landing ever >>>>(like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). >>>> >>>>ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and >>>>OH-XRT >>> was still in one piece. >>>> >>>>I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work >>>>by itself. >>>>Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. >>>> >>>>We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough >>>>stbd-side >>> stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent >>> sticker) >>> was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. >>>> >>>>That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a >>>>bottle of >>> bier. >>>> >>>>BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it >>>>was >>>>150. >>>> >>>>That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last >>>>summer a >>> serioush but super lucky >>>>forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was >>>>working >>>>uppsidedown. >>>>That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic >>>>Airservice. >>>> >>>>Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. >>>> >>>>I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. >>>>If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and >>>>check >>>>it >>> carefully. >>>>I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. >>>> >>>>Have you there any ideas for me, please? >>>> >>>>Raimo >>>>OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 7 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 06:47:36 AM PST US >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >>> From: trevpond@aol.com >>> >>> Hi Paddy, >>> >>> Would have loved it but in France at the moment, returning tomorrow >>> 5ish.?? >>> >>> All the best >>> >>> >>> Trev >>> G-LINN >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Paddy Clarke >>> Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:13 >>> Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >>> >>> >>> ? >>> Hi Folks,? >>> The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how about a >>> DOTH?. >>> Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose Andrewsfield.? >>> Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish,? >>> Cheers, Paddy? >>> ? >>> Paddy Clarke? >>> ? >>> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 8 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 01:48:00 PM PST US >>> From: "Raimo Toivio" >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby >>> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >>> >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> I read your lightning story and all went basically like mine yesterday >>> >>> "I have a shut off knob on the tunnel for the air box which supplies >>> ventilation >>> for the cabin and my knee was leaning up against it. I guess there is >>> about >>> 4 feet of cable, but it was enough to induce a significant voltage to >>> electrocute >>> me." >>> >>> That was for me an experience I will never forget. >>> >>> My Europas damages were anyway childrens play but it is always nice to >>> belong to >>> the same club as you. >>> >>> Do they say the strike does not hit the same plane never again, do they >>> ??? >>> >>> Wishes, Raimo >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Paul McAllister" >>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >>> Barkaby >>> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Hi Ramio, >>>> >>>> Well I guess you have joined the club. Take a look at >>>> http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html, click on the left hand pane >>>> under flying experiences and you can read about the damage my aircraft >>>> took with my lightning strike. >>>> >>>> By the way, I bought a lottery ticket straight after my hit but i >>>> didn't win anything. I assume that I have used up all of my luck >>>> >>>> Cheers, Paul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 9 >>> _____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 03:04:09 PM PST US >>> From: Rowland Carson >>> Subject: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module >>> >>> >>> I'm just starting to highlight the trimming lines on the cockpit >>> module with a fine felt-tip pen so I can see where to cut. >>> >>> I'm puzzled by the marks on the starboard side of the centre tunnel, >>> at the side of the seat area. My printed manual does not identify any >>> individual holes, but the PDF manual from the factory website marks >>> it and the corresponding one on port as "rudder pulley access holes". >>> The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are >>> asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port >>> side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the >>> starboard side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly >>> overlapping. The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is >>> not. >>> >>> Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? >>> >>> My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about >>> the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central >>> narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the >>> seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, >>> and I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the >>> centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - >>> thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. Perhaps >>> the inboard position was marked in error and both correct ones have >>> been hatched to better identify them. >>> >>> Roger at the factory says he thinks it should be the hatched one, but >>> does anyone know any better before I start cutting? >>> >>> regards >>> >>> Rowland >>> -- >>> | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ >>> | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 10 >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 07:44:31 PM PST US >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module >>> From: Fred Klein >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, Jun 9, 2008, at 15:00 US/Pacific, Rowland Carson wrote: >>> >>>> The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are >>>> asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port >>>> side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the starboard >>>> side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly overlapping. >>>> The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is not. >>>> >>>> Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? >>>> >>>> My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about >>>> the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central >>>> narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the >>>> seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, and >>>> I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the >>>> centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - >>>> thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. >>> >>> Rowland, >>> >>> Though I can no longer see the hairlines indicating the access hole >>> locations, you are correct in reasoning that the holes want to be in >>> the same relationship to the seat flanges, NOT in the same >>> relationship to the central narrow part of the tunnel which I >>> mistakenly used when I made my initial cuts. (Easily remedied w/ a >>> small patch and some 5 min. epoxy.) Take the starboard side as a guide >>> and duplicate it on the port side and you'll be good to go. >>> >>> Fred >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and >>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >>> believed to be clean. >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 11 >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Time: 11:34:34 PM PST US >>> From: jason Parker >>> Subject: Europa-List: fuel injected 912 is running great >>> >>> >>> Read about how I fuel injected my Titan Tornado in 3 weeks. Ialso have a >>> customer with a Europa who has one of my 914's. He will be ready to fire >>> up his engine in a month or two. mine is runningGreat! I'll add some >>> videos on UTUBE and a link on my >>> site.www.experimentalfuelinjection.com/wst_page4 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG. 5:25 PM -- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:36 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel Hi David, FWIW, my wife and I had lightning strike very near us while flying our Ximango last summer on a 500K attempt. We were deep in a drought here and it hadn't rained in 4 months. The lift was fantastic for this area during this time, i.e, greater than 10 knots to going to 10,000'+ agl every day. I had been flying long cross country flights every day for about 3 weeks, including several successful 500k attempts. There had not been even a hint of weather overdevelopment during that time. We were about 300K into the attempt and were approaching a nearby gliderport that was our last turnpoint for the final home run leg to complete the 500K. There was a fairly large storm about 20 miles away, but we were in clear air between puffy, friendly cumulus clouds at about 9000'. We were gliding along engine off at about 80 knots between thermals when a lightning bolt struck right out in front of us out of clear blue sky. I'd always heard that this could happen, but I'd never witnessed it first hand. We saw where it hit the ground and where that was in relation to our turn point. According to the GPS and our observation, the lightning was no more than 1/4th of a mile or so in front of us. The flash and the resulting boom were almost simultaneous. Needless to say it got our attention. I immediately aborted the course in an abrupt 90 degree wingover and proceeded to put as much distance between us and that storm as possible. The rest of the flight was uneventful. Whether or not we triggered the strike is unknown. It didn't hit us and there was no damage to the aircraft. I probably hyper-extended my sphincter muscle, though. After we returned to my strip I began to wonder if the Ximango was bonded. So, I started inspecting. Turns out that Aeromot did bond virtually every metal surface in the aircraft together. They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. I'm considering doing the same to my Europa. I certainly give thunderboomers a much wider berth these days. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Comm Antenna From: "h&jeuropa" I seem to have these problems pretty well solved. Initially tried shielded cables (shield grounded to A/C ground point near inst panel - unconnected at other end) with lots of toroids to the ELT and Magnetometer. Also made the interconnect between the Primary Flight Display and the MFD a shielded cable. Had little or no effect. Then tried just shielded cable (no toroids) to ELT and wrapped the entire ELT in aluminum foil. Foil is connected to the cable shield and ground is as before. That solved the ELT problem. From other forums I learned that there are D Sub filters which have capacitors built in bypassing each connection to the shell of the connector. Acquired Spectrum Control Series 100 filters, 5600 pf (from Newark Electronics) for the Magnetometer and the PFD (main display). At the Magnetometer I connected the cable shield to the D Sub shell since the shell is floating inside the Mag and I needed a return for the filter. Found the PFD filter didn't have any effect but the Mag helped some. Finally wrapped the Mag in aluminum foil which is connected to the shield and that seemed to solve the problems. I think there is so much RF from the com antenna and no shielding because of the composite, that it overwhelms the ELT and Magnetometer. I also found a local ham with an antenna analyzer (MFJ Model 269) and had a look at my com antenna. Found it had very low SWR but the resistance of the antenna changed if I walked near the antenna and the resistance was not constant or nearly so across the 118 to 136 Mhz range. We both suspected the toroid balun just didn't perform properly. So we decided to make a balun from coax as the ham radio books have shown for years. It is very much like the one on the Aero Electric website except the length of the balun section is an electrical half wavelength, so you must take into account the velocity factor of the cable. Using RG400 (vf=.695), the balun section is 16 1/4" long. Took off the toroids and installed the new balun. Had to trim the antenna to get the SWR low near the center of the band, but now the SWR is less than 2:1 across the entire band, the resistance stays constant and walking near the antenna makes no difference. Hope this helps someone else. Jim Butcher Europa N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187108#187108 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding From: Fred Klein On Tuesday, Jun 10, 2008, at 04:43 US/Pacific, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > They used fairly heavy gauge-braided jumpers made from tinned > copper-to tie everything metal-together to prevent arcing. Nice, thoughtful post John...thanks...If you locate a source for this braided jumper material, spread it around...I've known there was a reason I haven't closed my wings yet...Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:37 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: cockpit module trimming Thanks to all those who responded to my rudder pulley access holes query. Now, here's the next one: The manual says trim to the joggle line at the front end of the cockpit module. Mostly that's fine, the tiny line on th einside of the CM follows the edge of the joggle across the rudder pedal support and up the sides of the tunnel. However, along the top of the tunnel there is a discrepancy. The joggle is about 20mm down from the edge as supplied, then the tiny line is about 20mm below that again. If I trim to the line rather than the joggle, there will still be abut 30mm of flange left, and that will be about the same width as up the sides of the tunnel where line & joggle coincide. The drawing appears to show that the flange is about the same width all around the tunnel. Roger at the factory says he thinks (HE THINKS) that the line is where to cut, but I'd welcome a second opinion. (I'd prefer not to have a flange 20mm too narrow!) Anyone remember checking this with the factory while Andy or Neville were still there? regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:02 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Not sure thats a terribly good idea. The lightning will take the path of least resistance and probably travel through the aileron push rods and accross the fuselage (where the control rods pass within an inch of the fuel tank !!!!) If the current is high enough, the alloy pushrods will melt like a piece of fusewire. If you dont believe me, read this. It is a sobering story - The Dunstable glider lightning strike. Not sure if there is an easy solution. ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding From: "Christoph Both" Time to take chutes up again like glider pilots do... Best, Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia Canada -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Not sure thats a terribly good idea. The lightning will take the path of least resistance and probably travel through the aileron push rods and accross the fuselage (where the control rods pass within an inch of the fuel tank !!!!) If the current is high enough, the alloy pushrods will melt like a piece of fusewire. If you dont believe me, read this. It is a sobering story - The Dunstable glider lightning strike. Not sure if there is an easy solution. ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:37 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Displaying my ignorance yet again could somebody explain the principle involved? I am assuming that the lightning needs a conductive path to travel into, through and out the other side of the aircraft. Is this correct? Any gaps will acts as a giant spark plug gap and cause structural damage?? From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 06:44 Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel Hi David, FWIW, my wife and I had lightning strike very near us while flying our Ximango last summer on a 500K attempt. We were deep in a drought here and it hadn't rained in 4 months. The lift was fantastic for this area during this time, i.e, greater than 10 knots to going to 10,000'+ agl every day. I had been flying long cross country flights every day for about 3 weeks, including several successful 500k attempts. There had not been even a hint of weather overdevelopment during that time. We were about 300K into the attempt and were approaching a nearby gliderport that was our last turnpoint for the final home run leg to complete the 500K. There was a fairly large storm about 20 miles away, but we were in clear air between puffy, friendly cumulus clouds at about 9000'. We were gliding along engine off at about 80 knots between thermals when a lightning bolt struck right out in front of us out of clear blue sky. I'd always heard that this could happen, but I'd never witnessed it first hand. We saw where it hit the ground and where that was in relation to our turn point. According to the GPS and our observation, the lightning was no more than 1/4th of a mile or so in front of us. The flash and the resulting boom were almost simultaneous. Needless to say it got our attention. I immediately aborted the course in an abrupt 90 degree wingover and proceeded to put as much distance between us and that storm as possible. The rest of the flight was uneventful. Whether or not we triggered the strike is unknown. It didn't hit us and there was no damage to the aircraft. I probably hyper-extended my sphincter muscle, though. After we returned to my strip I began to wonder if the Ximango was bonded. So, I started inspecting. Turns out that Aeromot did bond virtually every metal surface in the aircraft together. They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. I'm considering doing the same to my Europa. I certainly give thunderboomers a much wider berth these days. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying Checked by AVG. 17:32 Checked by AVG. 17:32 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:30 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding The problem is that the Europa is made of Tupperware so there is no metal skin for the electricity to flow through, hence it is possible for it to flow though the aileron push rods or the elevator push rod and possibly vapourise them in the process. Some glass aeroplanes have a metal or carbon mesh built into the structure to conduct the lightning around the outside. There was a glider over Dunstable a couple of years ago that had a wing literally blown apart by the effect of a lightning strike. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2008 17:45 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Displaying my ignorance yet again could somebody explain the principle involved? I am assuming that the lightning needs a conductive path to travel into, through and out the other side of the aircraft. Is this correct? Any gaps will acts as a giant spark plug gap and cause structural damage?? From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 06:44 Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel Hi David, FWIW, my wife and I had lightning strike very near us while flying our Ximango last summer on a 500K attempt. We were deep in a drought here and it hadn't rained in 4 months. The lift was fantastic for this area during this time, i.e, greater than 10 knots to going to 10,000'+ agl every day. I had been flying long cross country flights every day for about 3 weeks, including several successful 500k attempts. There had not been even a hint of weather overdevelopment during that time. We were about 300K into the attempt and were approaching a nearby gliderport that was our last turnpoint for the final home run leg to complete the 500K. There was a fairly large storm about 20 miles away, but we were in clear air between puffy, friendly cumulus clouds at about 9000'. We were gliding along engine off at about 80 knots between thermals when a lightning bolt struck right out in front of us out of clear blue sky. I'd always heard that this could happen, but I'd never witnessed it first hand. We saw where it hit the ground and where that was in relation to our turn point. According to the GPS and our observation, the lightning was no more than 1/4th of a mile or so in front of us. The flash and the resulting boom were almost simultaneous. Needless to say it got our attention. I immediately aborted the course in an abrupt 90 degree wingover and proceeded to put as much distance between us and that storm as possible. The rest of the flight was uneventful. Whether or not we triggered the strike is unknown. It didn't hit us and there was no damage to the aircraft. I probably hyper-extended my sphincter muscle, though. After we returned to my strip I began to wonder if the Ximango was bonded. So, I started inspecting. Turns out that Aeromot did bond virtually every metal surface in the aircraft together. They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. I'm considering doing the same to my Europa. I certainly give thunderboomers a much wider berth these days. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying Checked by AVG. 08-Jun-08 17:32 Checked by AVG. 08-Jun-08 17:32 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Advisory to Notice of Sale From: "johnb" Hello Europaphiles: Please be advised of two (2) notices of sale in the, "Looking to Sell", section of this message board. In addition to details concerning each opportunity, contact information has been included. I truly appreciate the luxury to post this advisory. Many happy landings . . . "Thank-U", John B. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:49 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Thanks that explaines it. Hope they were wearing a parachute. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:27 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding The problem is that the Europa is made of Tupperware so there is no metal skin for the electricity to flow through, hence it is possible for it to flow though the aileron push rods or the elevator push rod and possibly vapourise them in the process. Some glass aeroplanes have a metal or carbon mesh built into the structure to conduct the lightning around the outside. There was a glider over Dunstable a couple of years ago that had a wing literally blown apart by the effect of a lightning strike. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- Checked by AVG. 17:32 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:38 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lightning bonding From: "rampil" Lightning and composite a/c are just a bit more complicated than the discussion so far suggests: wing mesh is more useful for static dissipation rather than lightning protection. Static dissipation is important to assure your Nav/Comm works in the clouds. The reason it does not work for lightning is that the tiny conductors of a mesh will melt, or vaporize explosively if hundreds to thousands of Amps pass through. You can't put enough metal into a composite a/c to safely conduct a direct lightning strike. Even metal a/c burn through at the points of entry and exit where the current density is highest. The same applies to bonding straps to control surfaces - for conduction of and reduction of microamps of static charge, not lightning protection. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187216#187216 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:06 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Hello glider builders, Can someone give me some input on the two questions below ? The manual give s little or no information on how to fit the ailerons, and there is no one left at the factory who knows anything about the long wings. 1) I am doing a dry-fit of the ailerons, but I notice that the GA02 plate with AN4 bolt etc. is projecting above the top of the aileron (see page 7-6 , diag. 13), and it couldn't possibly fit into the narrow closeout.The only solution is to cut a slot into the top wing skin. What did you do ? Maybe a small fairing on the wing would reduce turbulence in that spot. 2) The ma nual tells us to bond on the outer panel and then fit the ailerons. That do esn't make sense to me, as there is no guarantee that the ailerons will sti ll fit, and then I would have a real problem. The short wings were closed w ith aileron in place and a spacer between aileron and wing skin. I intend t o do it the same way with the glider wings. I can already see that the aile ron is rubbing against the closeout a little at each end and I am removing a small piece of the carbon fiber closeout for clearance. How did you fitth e ailerons ? Best regards, Karl
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:16 PM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? Hi Folks, Firstly an apology to all those good souls who made the DOTH to Andrewsfield today, that I didn't. The reason I didn't was that my engine decided to misbehave on takeoff. Run-up was normal and I got my normal max RPM on power application, but after approx 50m the RPM dropped to 5400. I abandoned T/O suspecting the prop controller - 5400 is the Airmaster climb power setting. However having exercised the controller, I did another power run and the engine was definitely unhappy. It was very rough above 4000 RPM and couldn't reach the normal max and the EGT reading was right up. Trying the separate ignition circuits certainly made it run rougher, but neither side much worse than the other. I taxied back suspecting a plug lead off - I've had that before- but on removing the cowlings all leads were in place. I then took out all the plugs, they looked pristine and all identical. I took off the carb bowls and gascolator - absolutely no sign of anything other than clean, clear fuel. I put it all back together and it ran perfectly, giving max RPM with stable fuel flow and moderate EGT for a good 2 mins. I decided to bite the bullet and do a couple of short flights, again no problems. One thing that springs to mind is fuel vaporization, but it was the first flight of the day and not particularly warm. I am using mogas and the aircraft had been fully fueled but left in a covered hangar - recent daytime temperatures up to 24 deg C, nighttime probably no lower than 15. However I have done approx 750 hrs, many times in much higher temperatures, (though it has to be said that the highest temperatures would have been on the continent using Avgas), and I have never had this problem before. The aircraft was standing out in full sun on a warm day before my 2 short flights, but here was no hint of a reoccurrence. Has anyone had anything similar, or got any suggestions? All the best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:50 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty Craig, All my epoxy is freshly made. Huntsman will not make a shipment unless it is all fresh. From the manufacturer supplied product data sheets, Araldite 420 is three years using the unopened containers supplied. Epibond, which is in metal cans, has only been tested to one year for storage and that is what the data sheet says from Huntsman. Maybe your containers are different down under. Yes the metal cans lasts longer just like the Araldite, but I have to go by the product data sheet supplied. It is the container of the hardener that makes the difference from what I see. Once opened, it is hard to get a good seal on the cans. I transfer my hardener to a small neck glass bottle with a tight metal cap and have no problems. It doesn't even get a scum layer. The resin is never a problem. I am working with Europa about a substitute of Hysol 9309.3NA. Don't look for a huge price difference though. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: craig bastin To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty I dont know about your expiry times Bud, Are you sure they are sending you new batches. Like you I am forced to buy the six quart cases and the last one I got, new from the australian distributor in september 07 and it is quoting an expiry of june 2010 price was much the same $1280 a case of 6 craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: Saturday, 24 May 2008 4:14 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty Roger, and other Europa Builders in need of Redux also known as Araldite 420 or Epibond 420 A/B. I order Redux in cases direct through my long time distributor TAPE. As there is no other acceptable substitute for Redux, for the Europa and as a result I am still buying it in bulk and shipping it. I have looked for substitutes, and many epoxies are as strong, but none as ductile or willing to be used in aircraft. I have been informed by my US distributor of Epibond 420 A/B (Redux) that the manufacturer, Huntsman Products in California, has restructured their pricing and packaging. I have been in contact with my distributor and Huntsman over the last four months trying to resolve the issue. Gladly, Huntsman has at least changed their policy and have agreed to distribute Epibond 420 in 6 quart cases again. Unfortunately, Huntsman has nearly doubled the price per case with no significant bulk discounts available for multiple cases. I've researched importing fresh Redux from overseas and it is slightly more costly due to the weak dollar and high shipping/hazardous fees. If I order soon, and I can still combine with other distributors I can get 6 quarts for about $280 a quart plus shipping to you (typically $20). Yes, I know that is $120 more than last year. Airbus is the primary user so if anyone knows someone at Airbus that can steal you some and smuggle it into the states, we are stuck with some pretty ugly prices. Delivery is 30-45 days to me so it will all be a fresh batch. Shelf life is a year opened or unopened but usually good for at least two if unopened. I have tentative orders for 2-3 quarts so far. I need three others. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations Europa Distributor Cell 813-244-8354 ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Lowe To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 12:09 PM Subject: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty > Everyone, Has anyone been able to source Araldite 420 and Araldite 2102 (rapid epoxy) in the US or Canada? If you have, can you forward me their contact information. The stuff from my partially completed kit that I have purchased has expired. The stuff I believe is classified as hazardous material for shipping and I'm in Canada so I'll need to find out if the vendor can ship it here too. OR Is there an "approved" alternative that can be used that is readily available in US or Canada? Thanks, Roger Lowe A252 Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron=================== === bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:29 PM PST US From: William Harrison Subject: Re: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? Paddy I wonder if that is a sticking valve? It would be evident from a low compression on one of the cyls. Willie G-BZNY - got its Permit back yesterday... On 10 Jun 2008, at 21:36, Paddy Clarke wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > Firstly an apology to all those good souls who made the DOTH to > Andrewsfield today, that I didn't. > The reason I didn't was that my engine decided to misbehave on > takeoff. Run-up was normal and I got my normal max RPM on power > application, but after approx 50m the RPM dropped to 5400. I > abandoned T/O suspecting the prop controller - 5400 is the > Airmaster climb power setting. However having exercised the > controller, I did another power run and the engine was definitely > unhappy. It was very rough above 4000 RPM and couldn't reach the > normal max and the EGT reading was right up. Trying the separate > ignition circuits certainly made it run rougher, but neither side > much worse than the other. > I taxied back suspecting a plug lead off - I've had that before- > but on removing the cowlings all leads were in place. I then took > out all the plugs, they looked pristine and all identical. I took > off the carb bowls and gascolator - absolutely no sign of anything > other than clean, clear fuel. > I put it all back together and it ran perfectly, giving max RPM > with stable fuel flow and moderate EGT for a good 2 mins. > I decided to bite the bullet and do a couple of short flights, > again no problems. > One thing that springs to mind is fuel vaporization, but it was the > first flight of the day and not particularly warm. I am using mogas > and the aircraft had been fully fueled but left in a covered hangar > - recent daytime temperatures up to 24 deg C, nighttime probably no > lower than 15. However I have done approx 750 hrs, many times in > much higher temperatures, (though it has to be said that the > highest temperatures would have been on the continent using Avgas), > and I have never had this problem before. The aircraft was standing > out in full sun on a warm day before my 2 short flights, but here > was no hint of a reoccurrence. > Has anyone had anything similar, or got any suggestions? > All the best, Paddy > > > Paddy Clarke > > Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:49 PM PST US From: "Tony Crowe" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? It could have been carb ice Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paddy Clarke" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? > > Hi Folks, > Firstly an apology to all those good souls who made the DOTH to > Andrewsfield today, that I didn't. > The reason I didn't was that my engine decided to misbehave on > takeoff. Run-up was normal and I got my normal max RPM on power > application, but after approx 50m the RPM dropped to 5400. I > abandoned T/O suspecting the prop controller - 5400 is the Airmaster > climb power setting. However having exercised the controller, I did > another power run and the engine was definitely unhappy. It was very > rough above 4000 RPM and couldn't reach the normal max and the EGT > reading was right up. Trying the separate ignition circuits certainly > made it run rougher, but neither side much worse than the other. > I taxied back suspecting a plug lead off - I've had that before- but > on removing the cowlings all leads were in place. I then took out all > the plugs, they looked pristine and all identical. I took off the > carb bowls and gascolator - absolutely no sign of anything other than > clean, clear fuel. > I put it all back together and it ran perfectly, giving max RPM with > stable fuel flow and moderate EGT for a good 2 mins. > I decided to bite the bullet and do a couple of short flights, again > no problems. > One thing that springs to mind is fuel vaporization, but it was the > first flight of the day and not particularly warm. I am using mogas > and the aircraft had been fully fueled but left in a covered hangar - > recent daytime temperatures up to 24 deg C, nighttime probably no > lower than 15. However I have done approx 750 hrs, many times in much > higher temperatures, (though it has to be said that the highest > temperatures would have been on the continent using Avgas), and I > have never had this problem before. The aircraft was standing out in > full sun on a warm day before my 2 short flights, but here was no > hint of a reoccurrence. > Has anyone had anything similar, or got any suggestions? > All the best, Paddy > > > Paddy Clarke > > Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:16 PM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding They were and both lived to tell the tale. The lad in the back seat got burns to his neck. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2008 20:20 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Thanks that explaines it. Hope they were wearing a parachute. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:27 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding The problem is that the Europa is made of Tupperware so there is no metal skin for the electricity to flow through, hence it is possible for it to flow though the aileron push rods or the elevator push rod and possibly vapourise them in the process. Some glass aeroplanes have a metal or carbon mesh built into the structure to conduct the lightning around the outside. There was a glider over Dunstable a couple of years ago that had a wing literally blown apart by the effect of a lightning strike. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- Checked by AVG. 08-Jun-08 17:32 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:02 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Fred & al, As I see it the problem with bonding aileron push rods is that they don't go to the end of the wings.Ideally I think you need a conductor that extends to the wing tips and also possibly one that is not inside the wing cavity. In the quoted glider incident (which happened in 1999 at Northall, just North of London, CAA occurrence no. 199902166) the heat generated by the lightning arcing through the wing surface to the control runs was thought to be enough to massively expand the contained air and blow the wing skins off. There is a caveat however to basing too much on that incident as investigation showed that the power of that particular lightning bolt was exceptional, in fact seven times higher than the power that certified aircraft are designed to withstand. Nevertheless I like the notion of a conductor that isn't connected to the bit I am holding, and feel there is a good chance of the aluminium mesh in the close out approach conducting lesser bolts straight through without giving me or my avionics a nasty shock! As an amusing postscript to the glider story the passenger in the 2 seat glider was having a trial flight. As he hadn't had his money's worth the club offered him a free repeat, but he is said to have declined! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding On Tuesday, Jun 10, 2008, at 04:43 US/Pacific, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned > copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. Nice, thoughtful post John...thanks...If you locate a source for this braided jumper material, spread it around...I've known there was a reason I haven't closed my wings yet...Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:52 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding So they managed to jump? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 17:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Fred & al, As I see it the problem with bonding aileron push rods is that they don't go to the end of the wings.Ideally I think you need a conductor that extends to the wing tips and also possibly one that is not inside the wing cavity. In the quoted glider incident (which happened in 1999 at Northall, just North of London, CAA occurrence no. 199902166) the heat generated by the lightning arcing through the wing surface to the control runs was thought to be enough to massively expand the contained air and blow the wing skins off. There is a caveat however to basing too much on that incident as investigation showed that the power of that particular lightning bolt was exceptional, in fact seven times higher than the power that certified aircraft are designed to withstand. Nevertheless I like the notion of a conductor that isn't connected to the bit I am holding, and feel there is a good chance of the aluminium mesh in the close out approach conducting lesser bolts straight through without giving me or my avionics a nasty shock! As an amusing postscript to the glider story the passenger in the 2 seat glider was having a trial flight. As he hadn't had his money's worth the club offered him a free repeat, but he is said to have declined! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Checked by AVG. 17:32 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Karl, 1) You are correct in saying the aileron push rod and rod end will need a slot in the top of the skin and a small fairing on top to make it clean. We fabricated a soft aluminum piece and bonded it in place with silicon caulk (RTV). 2) The ailerons do not fit the closeouts very well. As I recall, we needed to grind away a good portion of the rear of the closeout, and ended up with the ailerons a little higher than the top of the closeout and just live with it. regards, Terry Seaver ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Hello glider builders, Can someone give me some input on the two questions below ? The manual gives little or no information on how to fit the ailerons, and there is no one left at the factory who knows anything about the long wings. 1) I am doing a dry-fit of the ailerons, but I notice that the GA02 plate with AN4 bolt etc. is projecting above the top of the aileron (see page 7-6, diag. 13), and it couldn't possibly fit into the narrow closeout. The only solution is to cut a slot into the top wing skin. What did you do ? Maybe a small fairing on the wing would reduce turbulence in that spot. 2) The manual tells us to bond on the outer panel and then fit the ailerons. That doesn't make sense to me, as there is no guarantee that the ailerons will still fit, and then I would have a real problem. The short wings were closed with aileron in place and a spacer between aileron and wing skin. I intend to do it the same way with the glider wings. I can already see that the aileron is rubbing against the closeout a little at each end and I am removing a small piece of the carbon fiber closeout for clearance. How did you fit the ailerons ? Best regards, Karl
________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:45 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Hi Terry, Thank you for that confirmation. On question 2, did you do the final bondin g with the aileron in place ? In theory, that should have given a good fit. regards, Karl
Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Glider wingsDate: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:29:19 - 0700From: terrys@cisco.comTo: europa-list@matronics.com Hi Karl, 1) You are correct in saying the aileron push rod and rod end will need a s lot in the top of the skin and a small fairing on top to make it clean. We fabricated a soft aluminum piece and bonded it in place with silicon caulk (RTV). 2) The ailerons do not fit the closeouts very well. As I recall, we needed to grind away a good portion of the rear of the closeout, and ended up wit h the ailerons a little higher than the top of the closeout and just live w ith it. regards, Terry Seaver From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl HeindlSent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:17 PMTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Hello glider builders, Can someone give me some input on the two questions below ? The manual gives little or no information on how to fit the aileron s, and there is no one left at the factory who knows anything about the lon g wings. 1) I am doing a dry-fit of the ailerons, but I notice that the GA02 plate with AN4 bolt etc. is projecting above the top of the aileron (see page 7-6 , diag. 13), and it couldn't possibly fit into the narrow closeout.The only solution is to cut a slot into the top wing skin. What did you do ? Maybe a small fairing on the wing would reduce turbulence in that spot. 2) The ma nual tells us to bond on the outer panel and then fit the ailerons. That do esn't make sense to me, as there is no guarantee that the ailerons will sti ll fit, and then I would have a real problem. The short wings were closed w ith aileron in place and a spacer between aileron and wing skin. I intend t o do it the same way with the glider wings. I can already see that the aile ron is rubbing against the closeout a little at each end and I am removing a small piece of the carbon fiber closeout for clearance. How did you fitth e ailerons ? Best regards, Karl
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