---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/19/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:48 AM - Re: Fuel tank dimensions (craig bastin) 2. 02:35 AM - Re: Fuel tank dimensions (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 3. 08:36 AM - graham singleton mod (danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk) 4. 04:10 PM - Re: graham singleton mod (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:35 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions I am doing the same as you suggest Svein, and have allowed for it when building the CM and the fuel system. Now that the top of the fusealage is bonded on, the top of the seats is coming off and i am lifting it up 110mm, one reason is to fix the seat belt issue, the other is to allow for a second tank sitting on top of the main tank, total volume is 28 litres, giving almost 100litres total, it fills from the return line on the engine and is set up to be an independant reserve tank, so any fuel in there has already been filtered by the main gascolator. and is then run through a second gascolator between the reserve tank and the fuel selector. When the reserve tank is full it overflows back into the main tank. Tank is 1.5mm alloy wrapped in glass using vinyl ester resin, which is what the glasair's are made from and they run wet wings with no lining (according to a builder I visited) craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Thursday, 19 June 2008 4:23 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Steve, Thank you very much for measuring the dimensions I asked for, plus some in addition. Can you explain where you measured the "inside saddle back" and "inside saddle front"? Regarding the square box section extending into the baggage bay just over the hump in the middle: I am afraid that this would reduce the transverse strength of the cockpit module (CM) too much. Admittedly, much of the forces from the wings' lift and drag are equalized between them by the cross bar just aft of the CM, but I will not take any risk here. Cutting off the CM top and refitting it (at same level or higher) will not compromise the aircrafts structural strength. My plan - if I go ahead with it - would be to lift the top at least 4 inches (probably more) to maximize the volume, and make the head rests so that the shoulder belts will go back from my shoulders at an up angle of 35 degrees (ref. previous discussions the spine compression and European VLA seat belt rules). Best regards, Svein Checked by AVG. 9:08 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:10 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Craig, That is a very interesting solution, if I understand you correctly: - You have the original Europa tank inside the CM - You cut the head rests off - On top of the CM you then place the independant reserve tank - On top of this (probably bonded to the CM) comes low head rests, height adjusted for good angle of the shoulder belts - The independant top tank feeds the engine (via suction side of electric fuel pump), so that if you should experience a crack in the original tank you still have 28 litres of fuel - Topping off the independant tank by the fuel return is ingenious - you then avoid dumping unused fuel at the rate of about 9 litres per hour (that's how much goes through the return line even with the very narrow orifice in the line) through a cracked original tank Questions: - How will you fill up the top tank before flight - through the standard filler neck somehow, or through a filler opening on its top? - Wrapping of the alloy tank by vinyl ester resin: I assume this is how you will build the extension of the seat back and the CM back/sides and the new top, plus the new headrests. Will you wrap it closely to the alloy tank to add strength, and make this new "box" tight so that you have an extra barrier in case the alloy tank should spring a leak somehow (I assume so, since you will use vinyl ester which should stand up well agains gasoline)? - How does vinyl ester bond to the epoxy used in the original CM structure (I am totally ignorant on this, so I am not implying any doubt)? - Have you done the design of the alloy tank and its fuel in/out connections yet, and figured out how to make the new headrests, etc.? I think your solution is much better than tearing out a working original tank before it cracks (if it ever does), and would be a nice winter project (when are we ever declaring our airplanes "completed"?!). Best regards, Svein ----- Original Message ----- From: craig bastin To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions I am doing the same as you suggest Svein, and have allowed for it when building the CM and the fuel system. Now that the top of the fusealage is bonded on, the top of the seats is coming off and i am lifting it up 110mm, one reason is to fix the seat belt issue, the other is to allow for a second tank sitting on top of the main tank, total volume is 28 litres, giving almost 100litres total, it fills from the return line on the engine and is set up to be an independant reserve tank, so any fuel in there has already been filtered by the main gascolator. and is then run through a second gascolator between the reserve tank and the fuel selector. When the reserve tank is full it overflows back into the main tank. Tank is 1.5mm alloy wrapped in glass using vinyl ester resin, which is what the glasair's are made from and they run wet wings with no lining (according to a builder I visited) craig ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:47 AM PST US From: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" Subject: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Hi All, Does any know the mod number of Graham Singleton's firewall mod? I'm just finishing the paper work for the final inspection. I don't know about you guys, but I'm finding this the hardest part of the build. :-( Danny G-c.e.r.i ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:16 PM PST US From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Hi Danny Good question. I too have Graham Singleton's firewall mod and was just about to check with the LAA what the mod number is. The LAA website shows mod 10024 "Removable composite firewall" as a mod approved "all of type" (Europa Classic only). Presumably this is Graham Singleton's mod. However, Graham in his build instructions quotes a different mod number (mod 11123, as approved by the PFA for Europa Classic G-KWIP). I have the XS version of Graham's mod and hopefully the LAA will approve this without any further paperwork on the back of mods 10024 and 11123. If another XS builder has already sorted this out with the LAA perhaps they could respond? John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 19/06/2008 16:37:38 GMT Standard Time, danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk writes: --> Europa-List message posted by: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" Hi All, Does any know the mod number of Graham Singleton's firewall mod? I'm just finishing the paper work for the final inspection. I don't know about you guys, but I'm finding this the hardest part of the build. :-( Danny G-c.e.r.i ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.