---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/28/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - Re: Rotax carb heaters (G-IANI) 2. 01:20 AM - Re: Rotax carb heaters (Peter Jeffers) 3. 01:52 AM - monowheel centre console bulkhead (Rowland Carson) 4. 01:52 AM - mono brake mounting (Rowland Carson) 5. 03:51 AM - For European/U K members .....attention. (Robert C Harrison) 6. 10:57 AM - Fuel pipes (Frank Mycroft) 7. 12:07 PM - Re: Fuel pipes (Jerry Rehn) 8. 12:11 PM - Re: Rotax carb heaters (ploucandco) 9. 01:18 PM - Re: Fuel pipes (Carl Pattinson) 10. 07:02 PM - Re: mono brake mounting (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com) 11. 07:20 PM - Re: monowheel centre console bulkhead (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:36 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Ron In 250 hour flown in the UK never any sign of carb ice and we have flown all winter. So, as I have read elsewhere, no need for carb heaters. Same experience with G-IRON. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 914, 250 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:08 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Hi all, Running a 912 (Classic Europa) for 1250 hrs in the often cold moist air of the UK with no carb heater has resulted in a reasonably regular indication of carb icing. The thing to be aware of is that with the Rotax 900 series engines carb icing manifests itself rather differently from your Continentals and Lycomings. In the case of Rotax it shows itself as the occasional cough or what seems like misfire as each carb in turn ingests bits of ice shed from the throat. When it happens (and nowadays I have become quite good at predicting it)the solution is to warm the core temp of the engine by making it work hard for two or three minutes. IE open the throttle to climb power. Depending on the severity of the icing will determine how long it is before getting a recurrence. I have found that even in moderate icing conditions a period of at least 20 mins elapses before a need to re warm the engine. Now to the Rotax carb heater which uses coolant water to warm the carb throat. Inevitably this will only work effectively if the coolant temp is kept high enough. Quite often I have flown Rotax engined A/C where the coolant temp in cruise drops to 55 or 60 degrees C. In icing conditions, even with a carb heater installed and low coolant temps I have still encountered carb icing on a number of occasions. So to sum up avoidance of carb icing, with or without a heater, it is essential to keep your coolant (and Oil) temps minimums up around the 90 degree area. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 28 June 2008 08:27 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Ron In 250 hour flown in the UK never any sign of carb ice and we have flown all winter. So, as I have read elsewhere, no need for carb heaters. Same experience with G-IRON. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 914, 250 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com Checked by AVG. 11:20 AM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:00 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: monowheel centre console bulkhead I've just cut out the monowheel centre console bulkhead shape from 3mm ply. [Incidentally I wish I'd left the flap lever cutout intact until later - the flange layup would be much easier with that present.] {And another thing - I wanted to print a spare copy of the template so as to leave my build manual intact, but I can't find that page (11-7) in any of the PDF copies. Eventually I scanned it and printed a sacrificial copy from that - but does anyone know where the template might be found in the PDF manuals?} Anyway (before this gets too much like a Ronnie Corbet big chair joke), what I really wanted to ask is about the installation of the bulkhead, which acts as a "mudguard". I am looking at the installation instructions and I can't see any reference to coating the ply with resin, nor putting a layer of BID on the "outside" of it (as is done with the inboard thigh support ribs which also face the outside world). Anyone see any reason why I shouldn't put a layer of BID on the "weather" side of that bulkhead? I certainly don't want to leave a raw piece of ply open to everything the wheel will throw up. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://home.clara.net/rowil/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:00 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: mono brake mounting The manual shows a measurement for positioning the monowheel brake master cylinder which looks as though it might be made parallel to the top corenr of the tunnel moulding. However, that would put one of the mounting holes in a brown foam area which would obviously crush when the mounting fastener was tightened. However, measuring horizontally with the fuselage lying on the ground (instead of slantwise along the top corner of the tunnel) puts both holes in a plain resin area, which I feel confident is the correct location. However, (since I can't rely on the picture on the manual) I'm wondering about the angle at which the master cylinder is mounted. Should it be parallel to the tunnel top, or should it be as near to horizontal as possible (with the fuselage level), or should it be horizontal in the tail-down attitude (to make bleeding easier)? Any suggestions? regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://home.clara.net/rowil/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:02 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: For European/U K members .....attention. Hi! ALL It is Wickenby (EGNW) WINGS and WHEELS Event and Fly In this weekend ... Saturday 28th and Sunday 29th June. If you can please help a worthy cause and swell the numbers with a Fly In . Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:11 AM PST US From: "Frank Mycroft" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel pipes G-BWYD has fuel pipes which are rubber with a cotton and then a stainless braid covering. They look great, as though they would last for ever - but they don't! One of mine sprung a leak after I moved it a bit and when I removed the stainless and then the cotton braids I found that it was perished and split circumferentially in the place where it was leaking. The pipes are obviously resistant to outside abrasion, but you can't see what's happening inside and they plainly have a limited life, at least inside the engine compartment. Mine had been in place for 11 years. What pipes do people recommend? Alloy pipes are great if installed during the build, but not so easy for a retrofit. I have Aeroquip 303 from the tank to the electric pump, but the stuff with the stainless braid from then on when the chances of outside abrasion are greater. LAS don't seem to supply the stainless braid stuff. How do people protect the Aeroquip pipe where it could suffer from outside abrasion. Frank ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:09 PM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel pipes Frank Many of us are using auto grade fuel injection hose. It's tough and heavier and designed for auto gas and deals with alcohol unlike milspec airplane hose. They are very resistant to abrasion. It's a good practice to replace all the rubber at least every 6 years. I think Europa has even a shorter time frame. Nice part is you can purchase it at most auto supply houses. Jerry _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Mycroft Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel pipes G-BWYD has fuel pipes which are rubber with a cotton and then a stainless braid covering. They look great, as though they would last for ever - but they don't! One of mine sprung a leak after I moved it a bit and when I removed the stainless and then the cotton braids I found that it was perished and split circumferentially in the place where it was leaking. The pipes are obviously resistant to outside abrasion, but you can't see what's happening inside and they plainly have a limited life, at least inside the engine compartment. Mine had been in place for 11 years. What pipes do people recommend? Alloy pipes are great if installed during the build, but not so easy for a retrofit. I have Aeroquip 303 from the tank to the electric pump, but the stuff with the stainless braid from then on when the chances of outside abrasion are greater. LAS don't seem to supply the stainless braid stuff. How do people protect the Aeroquip pipe where it could suffer from outside abrasion. Frank ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:06 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax carb heaters From: "ploucandco" Hi Ron, Ian, Concerning the 914, the following documents section 18 is interesting: http://www.rotax-owner.com/support/UNDERSTANDING%20THE%20914%20ROTAX.pdf All depends if you have an intercooler or not. Jacques. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190261#190261 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:14 PM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel pipes Funny you should say that. I have today replaced all my braided hose for the newer stuff from the factory Which dosent have the protective sheath), because my inspector pretty much said the same about the old style Europa hose as you have - ie: looks great but not fit for purpose. Cant say I noticed anything wrong with the old stuff (5yrs old), but clearly it dosent age well. Dont really see the need for metal braided covering if the hoses are secured properly. Even braid will wear if not secured properly. I think its fair to say that aircraft quality hose probably wont do the job if you are usiing mogas as it appears to be more aggressive towards unsuitable hose. Probably best to use racing spec stuff as racing fuels can contain a lot of alcohol/ethanol - presumably the hose can cope with that. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Mycroft To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:54 PM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel pipes G-BWYD has fuel pipes which are rubber with a cotton and then a stainless braid covering. They look great, as though they would last for ever - but they don't! One of mine sprung a leak after I moved it a bit and when I removed the stainless and then the cotton braids I found that it was perished and split circumferentially in the place where it was leaking. The pipes are obviously resistant to outside abrasion, but you can't see what's happening inside and they plainly have a limited life, at least inside the engine compartment. Mine had been in place for 11 years. What pipes do people recommend? Alloy pipes are great if installed during the build, but not so easy for a retrofit. I have Aeroquip 303 from the tank to the electric pump, but the stuff with the stainless braid from then on when the chances of outside abrasion are greater. LAS don't seem to supply the stainless braid stuff. How do people protect the Aeroquip pipe where it could suffer from outside abrasion. Frank ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:54 PM PST US From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono brake mounting Rowland There is a metal insert in the tunnel wall (the area you call the "plain resin area"). The mounting holes need to go in this area, parallel to the top of the tunnel as shown in the illustration. John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 28/06/2008 09:52:40 GMT Standard Time, rowlandcarson@googlemail.com writes: The manual shows a measurement for positioning the monowheel brake master cylinder which looks as though it might be made parallel to the top corenr of the tunnel moulding. However, that would put one of the mounting holes in a brown foam area which would obviously crush when the mounting fastener was tightened. However, measuring horizontally with the fuselage lying on the ground (instead of slantwise along the top corner of the tunnel) puts both holes in a plain resin area, which I feel confident is the correct location. However, (since I can't rely on the picture on the manual) I'm wondering about the angle at which the master cylinder is mounted. Should it be parallel to the tunnel top, or should it be as near to horizontal as possible (with the fuselage level), or should it be horizontal in the tail-down attitude (to make bleeding easier)? Any suggestions? regards Rowland ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:35 PM PST US From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: monowheel centre console bulkhead Rowland As you work your way through the manual you will find that it gets less and less detailed, because it is assumed that having been told once, we can now work out for ourselves what would be good practice. The "mudguard" will have to cope not just with mud, but also with stones and other debris thrown up by the main wheel. Adding a ply of "bid" will protect it. John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 28/06/2008 09:52:42 GMT Standard Time, rowlandcarson@googlemail.com writes: --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson I've just cut out the monowheel centre console bulkhead shape from 3mm ply. [Incidentally I wish I'd left the flap lever cutout intact until later - the flange layup would be much easier with that present.] {And another thing - I wanted to print a spare copy of the template so as to leave my build manual intact, but I can't find that page (11-7) in any of the PDF copies. Eventually I scanned it and printed a sacrificial copy from that - but does anyone know where the template might be found in the PDF manuals?} Anyway (before this gets too much like a Ronnie Corbet big chair joke), what I really wanted to ask is about the installation of the bulkhead, which acts as a "mudguard". I am looking at the installation instructions and I can't see any reference to coating the ply with resin, nor putting a layer of BID on the "outside" of it (as is done with the inboard thigh support ribs which also face the outside world). Anyone see any reason why I shouldn't put a layer of BID on the "weather" side of that bulkhead? I certainly don't want to leave a raw piece of ply open to everything the wheel will throw up. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://home.clara.net/rowil/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.