---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/02/08: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:24 AM - Re: Coolant Temps. (G-IANI) 2. 01:35 AM - mod 59 (Herve) 3. 05:08 AM - Re: mod 59 (craig bastin) 4. 05:43 AM - Re: Coolant Temps. (Karl Heindl) 5. 06:56 AM - Re: Coolant Temps. (ALAN YERLY) 6. 09:35 AM - Thanks for all the replies Re:- Mod 66 Reposition of door Gas struts. (Robert C Harrison) 7. 12:47 PM - Re: Coolant Temps. (Karl Heindl) 8. 02:13 PM - Re: Coolant Temps. (ALAN YERLY) 9. 02:35 PM - Re: Coolant Temps. (Gilles Thesee) 10. 03:19 PM - Re: Coolant Temps. (Karl Heindl) 11. 04:40 PM - Re: Coolant Temps. (Graham Singleton) 12. 05:41 PM - A question on composits (Rman) 13. 06:26 PM - Re: A question on composits (Paul McAllister) 14. 06:46 PM - Re: Coolant Temps. (Karl Heindl) 15. 07:17 PM - Re: Coolant Temps. (Michael Grass) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:39 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Are you sure that this behaviour is new? I would normally expect the ground temp to be higher due to the limited airflow but the oil has not had time to warm up fully. Climbing temps would be higher due to the engine working hard and thus raising the head temperatures and so the coolant. Although not relevant to you problem are you going to change to the 1.2 bar cap. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl Sent: 01 July 2008 22:07 Subject: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. After changing all coolant hoses and coolant 50/50 I am now getting much higher coolant temperatures while taxiing and climbing, typically 25 C above the oil temperature. In the cruise the temperatures are all within 2 degrees of each other. I don't think I had this problem before. The radiator sits in front of the oil cooler. What could be the problem ? The pressure cap is .9 bar. Any suggestions ? Karl
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:25 AM PST US From: Herve Subject: Europa-List: mod 59 Hello I am trying to do mod 59 (nose wheel shimmy damper) and I am a little confuse as to what is what and goes where.Has anyone got some pictures to explain? G.CHET europa xs turbo Herve ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:56 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mod 59 Yes i have done it. It is quite simple undo the nut from the top of the shaft that holds the nose wheel fork remove the fork and all the washers, spacers etc, THE PIN, and in the kit you will find the small steel ring about 1.5mm thick that will slide onto the shaft of the nose wheel fork, slide the whole thing back into gear leg without anything else on there, just the small ring from the kit then put the big ring from the kit on top of the gear leg and a couple of washers on top of the ring then a half inch nut, there SHOULD be a gap under the washers. tighten up the nut until the flat plates on the top of the nose wheel and the bottom of the gear leg touch. This should have the small steel ring inside the bottom of the gear leg. Then remove the nut and washers, remove the nose wheel and the two steel rings (which you no longer need), At this point the inner sleve may be sticking up out the top of the gear leg, if so, cut/file it off till it's nice and flush. put the whole thing back together but this time put the rubber o-ring on top of the shimmy plate, so when you slide the nose wheel back into the leg it will be inside the bottom of the gear leg (where the small steel ring was) then put the washers (new bigger ones from the kit) plus 4 of the old ones on the top with your Castelated Nut (the one with the slots cut in it) on and re-set the tension as per the manual Just so you know, My gear leg already had space for the o-ring in the bottom, so maybe you can just fit the o-ring. hope this helps you, sorry i dont have any pictures, I did it as part of the build and it took about 30 seconds regards craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Herve Sent: Wednesday, 2 July 2008 6:32 PM Subject: Europa-List: mod 59 Hello I am trying to do mod 59 (nose wheel shimmy damper) and I am a little confuse as to what is what and goes where.Has anyone got some pictures to explain? G.CHET europa xs turbo Herve Checked by AVG. 7:23 PM Checked by AVG. 7:23 PM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:13 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Ian=2C I am not 100% sure as I hadn't flown for a long time. But on a hot day in t he climb my warning light used to come on because of hot OIL. The coolant radiator gets most of the incoming air =2C and the oil cooler gets pre-heated air. What was the reason again for changing to the 1.2 bar cap ? What temperature differentials for coolant/oil are you getting ? Karl
From: g-iani@ntlworld.comTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Europa-L ist: Coolant Temps.Date: Wed=2C 2 Jul 2008 09:20:48 +0100 Are you sure that this behaviour is new? I would normally expect the groun d temp to be higher due to the limited airflow but the oil has not had time to warm up fully. Climbing temps would be higher due to the engine workin g hard and thus raising the head temperatures and so the coolant. Although not relevant to you problem are you going to change to the 1.2 bar cap. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear=2C 200 hoursEuropa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)e-m ail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl HeindlSent: 01 July 2008 22:07To: europ a-list@matronics.comSubject: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. After changing all coolant hoses and coolant 50/50 I am now getting much h igher coolant temperatures while taxiing and climbing=2C typically 25 C abo ve the oil temperature. In the cruise the temperatures are all within 2 deg rees of each other. I don't think I had this problem before. The radiator s its in front of the oil cooler. What could be the problem ? The pressure ca p is .9 bar.Any suggestions ?Karl
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:57 AM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Karl, Sounds to me like the duct sealing may have been compromised. Another culprit can be the hose running from the top expansion tank to the radiator. Sometimes that bend gets pinched a little. I don't know what engine you have, but my experience here in Florida with the XS cowl and Rotax engines follows: 1. Lower the oil cooler as far down as you can get it. Typically 1.5 inches is easily attained. That lowers oil temps nearly 15 degrees. 2. Make sure the cowl seal rubber is doing its job to include around the top front of the duct. Any high pressure air getting from the lower duct into the cowl cuts cooling. The engine is partially air cooled also. 3. Seal the gaps on the side and below the oil cooler. The duct works best when entering air stacks up and slows down in front of the coolers so as to get efficient heat transfer. I bend a piece of stainless which I attach to the oil cooler bottom and bend it to make a nice tight seal underneath also. When taxiing, that really makes a difference. I also continue the seal back to the cowl exit. Other techniques: 4. For info only, I run 70/30 Dexcool which doesn't boil until 276F vs. 265F for 50/50. 5. Taxi with coarse pitch to get more air in the duct. If you have a mono, I do a number of other mods too numerous to email about. Bud Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. After changing all coolant hoses and coolant 50/50 I am now getting much higher coolant temperatures while taxiing and climbing, typically 25 C above the oil temperature. In the cruise the temperatures are all within 2 degrees of each other. I don't think I had this problem before. The radiator sits in front of the oil cooler. What could be the problem ? The pressure cap is .9 bar. Any suggestions ? Karl
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:35 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Thanks for all the replies re:- Mod 66 Reposition of door Gas struts. Hi! What a great forum we have. Thanks to all associated with the many replies to my request for guidance as to what now appears to be Mod. 66. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:14 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Hi Bud=2C Thanks for your recommendations. I am only concerned because I don't recall a coolant problem from previous years. I did make anumber of changes to the way the air flows over the engine (Iha ve a trigear 912S)=2C but they should all help with the cooling and reduction of drag: 1) I cut back the aluminum duct tail end to the radiator and this is the ma in air outlet to the bottom of the fuselage. 2) I sealed the gills. 3) I taped over the main stbd Naca duct. 4) I closed the outboard 60% of the two round inlets. I don't see the point of cooling the exhaust pipes. 5) I closed the gap between the round baffle inlet and the baffle. 6) I reduced the height of the main inlet by about 30mm=2C streamlined the interior of the duct=2C and made sure that there are no more gaps either at the front or around the radiators. 7) The radiators are mounted just as you described. 8) The hoses all have a smooth run=2C and the two main ones to the radiato r are silicone and preshaped. In essence=2C I have reduced the cowl openings by 50% and doubled the exit openings. The performance improvement in the cruise is considerable. The temperature under the top cowling is around 15 degrees C above oat. I see your note about coolant mixture=2C and that concurs with a note in the Rotax handbook. I think I will try that and maybe change the pressure cap to 1.2 bar. Karl
From: budyerly@msn.comTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Europa-List : Coolant Temps.Date: Wed=2C 2 Jul 2008 09:53:38 -0400 Karl=2C Sounds to me like the duct sealing may have been compromised. Another culprit can be the hose running from the top expansion tank to the radiator. Sometimes that bend gets pinched a little. I don't know what engine you have=2C but my experience here in Florida with the XS cowl and Rotax engines follows: 1. Lower the oil cooler as far down as you can get it. Typically 1.5 inch es is easily attained. That lowers oil temps nearly 15 degrees. 2. Make sure the cowl seal rubber is doing its job to include around the t op front of the duct. Any high pressure air getting from the lower duct in to the cowl cuts cooling. The engine is partially air cooled also. 3. Seal the gaps on the side and below the oil cooler. The duct works bes t when entering air stacks up and slows down in front of the coolers so as to get efficient heat transfer. I bend a piece of stainless which I attach to the oil cooler bottom and bend it to make a nice tight seal underneath also. When taxiing=2C that really makes a difference. I also continue the seal back to the cowl exit. Other techniques: 4. For info only=2C I run 70/30 Dexcool which doesn't boil until 276F vs. 265F for 50/50. 5. Taxi with coarse pitch to get more air in the duct. If you have a mono=2C I do a number of other mods too numerous to email abo ut. Bud Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl Sent: Tuesday=2C July 01=2C 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. After changing all coolant hoses and coolant 50/50 I am now getting much h igher coolant temperatures while taxiing and climbing=2C typically 25 C abo ve the oil temperature. In the cruise the temperatures are all within 2 deg rees of each other. I don't think I had this problem before. The radiator s its in front of the oil cooler. What could be the problem ? The pressure ca p is .9 bar.Any suggestions ?Karl
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:47 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Careful on the 1.2 bar cap. The reduction in boiling over with the extra pressure is not worth the potential for leaking hoses. Unless you replaced all the spring clamps with worm clamps, I would not do that. As for the inlets, I leave mine the size they are due to ground cooling. It's a trade off. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Hi Bud, Thanks for your recommendations. I am only concerned because I don't recall a coolant problem from previous years. I did make anumber of changes to the way the air flows over the engine (Ihave a trigear 912S), but they should all help with the cooling and reduction of drag: 1) I cut back the aluminum duct tail end to the radiator and this is the main air outlet to the bottom of the fuselage. 2) I sealed the gills. 3) I taped over the main stbd Naca duct. 4) I closed the outboard 60% of the two round inlets. I don't see the point of cooling the exhaust pipes. 5) I closed the gap between the round baffle inlet and the baffle. 6) I reduced the height of the main inlet by about 30mm, streamlined the interior of the duct, and made sure that there are no more gaps either at the front or around the radiators. 7) The radiators are mounted just as you described. 8) The hoses all have a smooth run, and the two main ones to the radiator are silicone and preshaped. In essence, I have reduced the cowl openings by 50% and doubled the exit openings. The performance improvement in the cruise is considerable. The temperature under the top cowling is around 15 degrees C above oat. I see your note about coolant mixture, and that concurs with a note in the Rotax handbook. I think I will try that and maybe change the pressure cap to 1.2 bar. Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: budyerly@msn.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:53:38 -0400 Karl, Sounds to me like the duct sealing may have been compromised. Another culprit can be the hose running from the top expansion tank to the radiator. Sometimes that bend gets pinched a little. I don't know what engine you have, but my experience here in Florida with the XS cowl and Rotax engines follows: 1. Lower the oil cooler as far down as you can get it. Typically 1.5 inches is easily attained. That lowers oil temps nearly 15 degrees. 2. Make sure the cowl seal rubber is doing its job to include around the top front of the duct. Any high pressure air getting from the lower duct into the cowl cuts cooling. The engine is partially air cooled also. 3. Seal the gaps on the side and below the oil cooler. The duct works best when entering air stacks up and slows down in front of the coolers so as to get efficient heat transfer. I bend a piece of stainless which I attach to the oil cooler bottom and bend it to make a nice tight seal underneath also. When taxiing, that really makes a difference. I also continue the seal back to the cowl exit. Other techniques: 4. For info only, I run 70/30 Dexcool which doesn't boil until 276F vs. 265F for 50/50. 5. Taxi with coarse pitch to get more air in the duct. If you have a mono, I do a number of other mods too numerous to email about. Bud Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. After changing all coolant hoses and coolant 50/50 I am now getting much higher coolant temperatures while taxiing and climbing, typically 25 C above the oil temperature. In the cruise the temperatures are all within 2 degrees of each other. I don't think I had this problem before. The radiator sits in front of the oil cooler. What could be the problem ? The pressure cap is .9 bar. Any suggestions ? Karl
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:21 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. ALAN YERLY a crit : > Careful on the 1.2 bar cap. The reduction in boiling over with the > extra pressure is not worth the potential for leaking hoses. Unless > you replaced all the spring clamps with worm clamps, I would not do that. Alan, No problem whatsoever with the hose spring clamps and 1.2 bar cap. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:33 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Thank you. I'll go easy on that. But changing the cap back is easy. I am ch anging all clamps again to narrow stainless worm clamps=2C and I am also ch anging the hoses to the cylinders to a smaller i.d. silicone for a tight fi t (next week). I see on the glycol container that the 50/50 mix boils at 129 C=2C and the 70/30 at 135. So that is a guide for setting my limit on my EIS warning lig ht. Karl
From: budyerly@msn.comTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Europa-List : Coolant Temps.Date: Wed=2C 2 Jul 2008 17:09:48 -0400 Careful on the 1.2 bar cap. The reduction in boiling over with the extra p ressure is not worth the potential for leaking hoses. Unless you replaced all the spring clamps with worm clamps=2C I would not do that. As for the inlets=2C I leave mine the size they are due to ground cooling. It's a trade off. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl Sent: Wednesday=2C July 02=2C 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Hi Bud=2C Thanks for your recommendations. I am only concerned because I do n't recall a coolant problem from previous years.I did make anumber of chan ges to the way the air flows over the engine (Ihave a trigear 912S)=2C but they should all help with the cooling and reduction of drag:1) I cut back t he aluminum duct tail end to the radiator and this is the main air outlet t o the bottom of the fuselage.2) I sealed the gills.3) I taped over the main stbd Naca duct.4) I closed the outboard 60% of the two round inlets. I don 't see the point of cooling the exhaust pipes.5) I closed the gap between t he round baffle inlet and the baffle.6) I reduced the height of the main in let by about 30mm=2C streamlined the interior of the duct=2C and made sure that there are no more gaps either at the front or around the radiator s.7) The radiators are mounted just as you described.8) The hoses all hav e a smooth run=2C and the two main ones to the radiator are silicone and pr eshaped. In essence=2C I have reduced the cowl openings by 50% and doubled the exit openings.The performance improvement in the cruise is considerable . The temperature under the top cowling is around15 degrees C above oat.I s ee your note about coolant mixture=2C and that concurs with a note in the Rotax handbook. I think I will try thatand maybe change the pressure cap to 1.2 bar. Karl
From: budyerly@msn.comTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Europa-List : Coolant Temps.Date: Wed=2C 2 Jul 2008 09:53:38 -0400 Karl=2C Sounds to me like the duct sealing may have been compromised. Another culprit can be the hose running from the top expansion tank to the radiator. Sometimes that bend gets pinched a little. I don't know what engine you have=2C but my experience here in Florida with the XS cowl and Rotax engines follows: 1. Lower the oil cooler as far down as you can get it. Typically 1.5 inch es is easily attained. That lowers oil temps nearly 15 degrees. 2. Make sure the cowl seal rubber is doing its job to include around the t op front of the duct. Any high pressure air getting from the lower duct in to the cowl cuts cooling. The engine is partially air cooled also. 3. Seal the gaps on the side and below the oil cooler. The duct works bes t when entering air stacks up and slows down in front of the coolers so as to get efficient heat transfer. I bend a piece of stainless which I attach to the oil cooler bottom and bend it to make a nice tight seal underneath also. When taxiing=2C that really makes a difference. I also continue the seal back to the cowl exit. Other techniques: 4. For info only=2C I run 70/30 Dexcool which doesn't boil until 276F vs. 265F for 50/50. 5. Taxi with coarse pitch to get more air in the duct. If you have a mono=2C I do a number of other mods too numerous to email abo ut. Bud Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl Sent: Tuesday=2C July 01=2C 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. After changing all coolant hoses and coolant 50/50 I am now getting much h igher coolant temperatures while taxiing and climbing=2C typically 25 C abo ve the oil temperature. In the cruise the temperatures are all within 2 deg rees of each other. I don't think I had this problem before. The radiator s its in front of the oil cooler. What could be the problem ? The pressure ca p is .9 bar.Any suggestions ?Karl
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:57 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Problem with worm clamps is that when the hose gets hot, around 150C, which it can do with radiant heat, the hose softens and under pressure will pull out from under a worm clip. I suspect that is why Rotax changed to spring clamps after my accident. The accident was caused by a hose pulling out and filling the cowling with vapour. Unfortunately the engine didn't stop and make the correct decision for me, (accept a controlled crash) Graham ALAN YERLY wrote: > Careful on the 1.2 bar cap. The reduction in boiling over with the > extra pressure is not worth the potential for leaking hoses. Unless > you replaced all the spring clamps with worm clamps, I would not do > that. > > As for the inlets, I leave mine the size they are due to ground > cooling. It's a trade off. > > Bud > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:52 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Europa-List: A question on composits Fellow Europaphiles, As some of you know, after seeing a modified Europa cowl at Sun'n'fun, I decided to take on the job of redesigning my cowl, to see what I could gain. I've successfully made a mold from my current cowl, and want to make a new cowl. One that I can cut up and modify. My question is, what is the best cloth and resin to use to build the cowl? Any ideas on what is used in the stock Europa cowl and how many layers of cloth are used? I considering having a new exhaust system designed and built to save space and weight. I will probably be moving the coolers to accommodate the new exhaust. I've just got this nagging idea, in my head that a well designed cowl will improve cooling, air speed, weight and appearance. Am I wrong?: :) Jeff - Baby Blue - Looking at getting a nose job... ;) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:54 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: A question on composits Hi Jeff, Would you happen to have any photographs of the cowl design that your trying to build ? Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:36 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Graham=2C You have a point there=2C but don't all Europa Rotaxes have worm clamps for the thick hoses from the radiator=2C plus a few more when the Skydrive kit is installed ? Karl
> Date: Thu=2C 3 Jul 2008 00:38:23 +0100> From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re Singleton > > Problem with worm clamps is t hat when the hose gets hot=2C around 150C=2C > which it can do with radiant heat=2C the hose softens and under pressure > will pull out from under a w orm clip. I suspect that is why Rotax > changed to spring clamps after my a ccident.> The accident was caused by a hose pulling out and filling the cow ling > with vapour. Unfortunately the engine didn't stop and make the corre ct > decision for me=2C (accept a controlled crash)> Graham> > > ALAN YERLY wrote:> > Careful on the 1.2 bar cap. The reduction in boiling over with t he > > extra pressure is not worth the potential for leaking hoses. Unless > > you replaced all the spring clamps with worm clamps=2C I would not do > > that. > > > > As for the inlets=2C I leave mine the size they are due to > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:53 PM PST US From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Karl, Have a look at this link. http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=1020 It explains very much why a worm clamp is the worst choice for hoses which experience big temperature changes. Spring clamps are in my opinion the best readily available choice but must be carefully selected for the right clamping size. The polymeric type mentioned in this article might be a great system but I am not sure if easily available and if we could easily apply them in our application so the spring type will get my first vote. Michael Grass A266 TriGear Detroit ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: 2008-07-02 18:16 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Thank you. I'll go easy on that. But changing the cap back is easy. I am changing all clamps again to narrow stainless worm clamps, and I am also changing the hoses to the cylinders to a smaller i.d. silicone for a tight fit (next week). I see on the glycol container that the 50/50 mix boils at 129 C, and the 70/30 at 135. So that is a guide for setting my limit on my EIS warning light. Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: budyerly@msn.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:09:48 -0400 Careful on the 1.2 bar cap. The reduction in boiling over with the extra pressure is not worth the potential for leaking hoses. Unless you replaced all the spring clamps with worm clamps, I would not do that. As for the inlets, I leave mine the size they are due to ground cooling. It's a trade off. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Hi Bud, Thanks for your recommendations. I am only concerned because I don't recall a coolant problem from previous years. I did make anumber of changes to the way the air flows over the engine (Ihave a trigear 912S), but they should all help with the cooling and reduction of drag: 1) I cut back the aluminum duct tail end to the radiator and this is the main air outlet to the bottom of the fuselage. 2) I sealed the gills. 3) I taped over the main stbd Naca duct. 4) I closed the outboard 60% of the two round inlets. I don't see the point of cooling the exhaust pipes. 5) I closed the gap between the round baffle inlet and the baffle. 6) I reduced the height of the main inlet by about 30mm, streamlined the interior of the duct, and made sure that there are no more gaps either at the front or around the radiators. 7) The radiators are mounted just as you described. 8) The hoses all have a smooth run, and the two main ones to the radiator are silicone and preshaped. In essence, I have reduced the cowl openings by 50% and doubled the exit openings. The performance improvement in the cruise is considerable. The temperature under the top cowling is around 15 degrees C above oat. I see your note about coolant mixture, and that concurs with a note in the Rotax handbook. I think I will try that and maybe change the pressure cap to 1.2 bar. Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: budyerly@msn.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:53:38 -0400 Karl, Sounds to me like the duct sealing may have been compromised. Another culprit can be the hose running from the top expansion tank to the radiator. Sometimes that bend gets pinched a little. I don't know what engine you have, but my experience here in Florida with the XS cowl and Rotax engines follows: 1. Lower the oil cooler as far down as you can get it. Typically 1.5 inches is easily attained. That lowers oil temps nearly 15 degrees. 2. Make sure the cowl seal rubber is doing its job to include around the top front of the duct. Any high pressure air getting from the lower duct into the cowl cuts cooling. The engine is partially air cooled also. 3. Seal the gaps on the side and below the oil cooler. The duct works best when entering air stacks up and slows down in front of the coolers so as to get efficient heat transfer. I bend a piece of stainless which I attach to the oil cooler bottom and bend it to make a nice tight seal underneath also. When taxiing, that really makes a difference. I also continue the seal back to the cowl exit. Other techniques: 4. For info only, I run 70/30 Dexcool which doesn't boil until 276F vs. 265F for 50/50. 5. Taxi with coarse pitch to get more air in the duct. If you have a mono, I do a number of other mods too numerous to email about. Bud Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Coolant Temps. After changing all coolant hoses and coolant 50/50 I am now getting much higher coolant temperatures while taxiing and climbing, typically 25 C above the oil temperature. In the cruise the temperatures are all within 2 degrees of each other. I don't think I had this problem before. The radiator sits in front of the oil cooler. What could be the problem ? The pressure cap is .9 bar. Any suggestions ? Karl
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