---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/11/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:26 AM - Removing PVA release agent (Andrew Sarangan) 2. 10:59 AM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (David Joyce) 3. 11:36 AM - Re: Removing PVA release agent () 4. 02:05 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (david miller) 5. 02:29 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (Andrew Sarangan) 6. 03:35 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (Graham Singleton) 7. 03:57 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (craig bastin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:29 AM PST US From: "Andrew Sarangan" Subject: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order. Does anyone have some advice on this? Thanks! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:51 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent Andrew, My advice is to take it seriously and wash very thoroughly and then wash again. I think the release agent is just a water soluble thing which will be there in small quantities and not necessarily visible. My reason for saying this is that release agents contain a chemical known to be good at enhancing or provoking the production of allergic reactions. I was a bit casual about the washing as it looked reasonably clean, but I developed a serious allergy, giving asthma and most unpleasant lung and nose symptoms whilst dry sanding the wing and fuselage smooth surfaces to prepare for gel coating, which like paint needs a matt surface without any trace of shine, (and it is potentially lethal, since repeated exposure once sensitive can give anaphylactic reactions) I am not sensitive to ordinary fibreglass or filler dust but only the dust from those moulded surfaces which have been coated with releasing agent. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Sarangan" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:23 PM Subject: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent > > I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module > has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more > like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA > release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of > washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order. > Does anyone have some advice on this? > Thanks! > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent From: Hi Andrew "I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module > has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more > like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA > release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of > washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order. > Does anyone have some advice on this?" Use the hottest water you can tolerate, we used just plain green Palmolive dish washing soap (great hand cleaner)and scotchbright pad. Once water sheets rather than beads up you can switch to plain water and scotchbright. You need to rinse off all the soap which is no trivial job. Just keep rinsing, you could use green scouring pads (for sinks) as well. When you think you got it all off, use some hot water "when" you see bubbles forming, keep at it. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:36 PM PST US From: david miller Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent Andrew, My spars were coated with something, I presume it was a release agent, nothing would stick to it. I tried detergent and water, and tri sodium phospate, neither of which did much. Sanding just worked the contaminant into the spars. Eventually I tried Comet kitchen cleaner, and the foaming/scouring action plus lots of water cleaned them well. After this a friend from the auto industry gave me a bottle of "Polycracker" prep wash. Sprayed on wiped off and rinsed, the stuff was brilliant at removing whatever was on the spars. Dave On 11-Jul-08, at 12:23 PM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > > > I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module > has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more > like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA > release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of > washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order. > Does anyone have some advice on this? > Thanks! > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:05 PM PST US From: "Andrew Sarangan" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent Now you are getting me worried. I did not wash my XS wing spar before applying the reinforcement plies, nor did the manual mention it. I simply scuff sanded it. But I did not notice any adhesion problems. Anyone else notice this? On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:06 PM, david miller wrote: > > Andrew, > > My spars were coated with something, I presume it was a release agent, > nothing would stick to it. > I tried detergent and water, and tri sodium phospate, neither of which did > much. > Sanding just worked the contaminant into the spars. > Eventually I tried Comet kitchen cleaner, and the foaming/scouring action > plus lots of water > cleaned them well. > After this a friend from the auto industry gave me a bottle of "Polycracker" > prep wash. > Sprayed on wiped off and rinsed, the stuff was brilliant at removing > whatever was on the spars. > > Dave > > On 11-Jul-08, at 12:23 PM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > >> >> I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module >> has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more >> like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA >> release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of >> washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order. >> Does anyone have some advice on this? >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:41 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent Andrew PVA release, (poly vinyl alcohol) is water soluble. It will be like a film and tend to peel off. Wet it and it will soften and feel greasy/sticky. I am not aware that the factory used it, too much trouble, it is slow to dry when applied. Graham > > Now you are getting me worried. I did not wash my XS wing spar before > applying the reinforcement plies, nor did the manual mention it. I > simply scuff sanded it. But I did not notice any adhesion problems. > Anyone else notice this? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:39 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent Having used PVA for other glassing work, I havn't noticed any sign of it on my kit. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent Andrew PVA release, (poly vinyl alcohol) is water soluble. It will be like a film and tend to peel off. Wet it and it will soften and feel greasy/sticky. I am not aware that the factory used it, too much trouble, it is slow to dry when applied. Graham > > Now you are getting me worried. I did not wash my XS wing spar before > applying the reinforcement plies, nor did the manual mention it. I > simply scuff sanded it. But I did not notice any adhesion problems. > Anyone else notice this? 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