---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/13/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:54 AM - Re: Reenforcement of baggage bays (craig bastin) 2. 06:50 AM - Re: Reenforcement of baggage bays (Rick Stockton) 3. 12:24 PM - Re: Reenforcement of baggage bays (Rowland Carson) 4. 01:14 PM - Re: Reenforcement of baggage bays (D Wysong) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:13 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Reenforcement of baggage bays I did Mine by doing the cloth wet out on plastic sheet and then transfered it to the tubs, cutting and trimming to get a good fit, one face at a time, and then the bottom last, with about a 50mm overlap I did the ply wood the same way and then carefully stuffed it all with plastic shopping bags to keep some pressure on the layups in the really tight corners the bags dont stick and can be easily removed after care, this gave me a nice finish that almost looks like its been vaccum bagged -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2008 6:00 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Reenforcement of baggage bays I just started chapter 29 for the tri gear. On page 29-2 Issue 3. It states to lay up two plies of "bid" at 45 degrees over the entire are up to the top level of the central tunnel. I just did one ply and it was the most difficult lay up so far. There are no measuremnts given and the cloth folds onto its self while I tried to do the lay up. It seems the there should be a better way of doing this lay-up. Has somebody come up with a good method? I looked at all the pictures, but they only show the finished product. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:10 AM PST US From: Rick Stockton Subject: RE: Europa-List: Reenforcement of baggage bays Thanks, Graig, but I was writing about the very first lay up. The bid in the box. I did one by trying to lay it up with one big sheet of bid. Because the bid is a flat sheet it took some doing to get it in the form of the box. I had to cut the four corners. I then lay out the two sheet on a wax paper design. I then put this into the other baggage compartment. It quickly became a big mess. I know I have some air bubbles, but I could not work them out. I'm thinking that I need to cut the bid into three pieces. One long piece from the tunnel to the fuselage side then the front piece and back piece. craig bastin wrote: I did Mine by doing the cloth wet out on plastic sheet and then transfered it to the tubs, cutting and trimming to get a good fit, one face at a time, and then the bottom last, with about a 50mm overlap I did the ply wood the same way and then carefully stuffed it all with plastic shopping bags to keep some pressure on the layups in the really tight corners the bags dont stick and can be easily removed after care, this gave me a nice finish that almost looks like its been vaccum bagged -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2008 6:00 AM Subject: Europa-List: Reenforcement of baggage bays I just started chapter 29 for the tri gear. On page 29-2 Issue 3. It states to lay up two plies of "bid" at 45 degrees over the entire are up to the top level of the central tunnel. I just did one ply and it was the most difficult lay up so far. There are no measuremnts given and the cloth folds onto its self while I tried to do the lay up. It seems the there should be a better way of doing this lay-up. Has somebody come up with a good method? I looked at all the pictures, but they only show the finished product. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:08 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: RE: Europa-List: Reenforcement of baggage bays At 2008-07-13 06:45 -0700 Rick Stockton wrote: >I'm thinking that I need to cut the bid into three pieces Rick - as a monowheel builder I'm not familiar with this tri-gear part of the build. However, alarm bells start to ring when I think about cutting a re-inforcing item into pieces. Graham Singleton or others with wider knowledge will correct me, but I'm sure you need to consider the potential weakness introduced by cutting the glass before layup. It may be possible to recover the lost strength by edge overlaps of the glass plies, but I'm not qualified to say where or how much. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1030 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:56 PM PST US From: "D Wysong" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Reenforcement of baggage bays > I just did one ply and it was the most difficult lay up so far. There are no > measuremnts given and the cloth folds onto its self while I tried to do the lay > up. > > It seems the there should be a better way of doing this lay-up. Has somebody > come up with a good method? I looked at all the pictures, but they only show > the finished product. Hello Rick, A trick I use on hard-to-reach spots (LongEZ /canard builder) is to make "poor man's prepreg" with the BID. It might work well for you. First, make a pattern for the layup using a piece of drop cloth plastic. I use 2 mil plastic for my patterns but have seen folks use 4 mil. You can cram the plastic sheet into nooks/crannies and then mark any creases with a Sharpie. Trim the excess with a pair of scissors and you end up with a "paperdoll" pattern for your BID cloth. Next, rough cut the BID cloth about 2" oversize relative to your "paperdoll" pattern. Also, cut two more pieces of drop cloth plastic a tad bit bigger than the BID. Write "OUT" with your Sharpie marker one one of the big plastic sheets and trace the "paperdoll" onto it. Place this piece face-down (i.e. - with the "OUT" facing out) and lay your first BID ply on top at a 45 relative to the pattern. Wet out the first BID ply thoroughly and follow it with the second BID ply. Once your plies are wet, put the other sheet of plastic onto the top of the pile, making a sandwich of wet BID between two sheets of drop cloth. Use a squeegee (or Bondo spreader, thick postcard, tongue depressor, rolling pin, etc.) to gently chase any air or excess epoxy to the edges. Don't pull too much resin out but do your best to get rid of any air bubbles. Using a hair dryer to gently warm the resin will get it to flow better in cool weather. Once you finish chasing air bubbles out, turn the whole sandwich over so you can see your "OUT" plus the "paperdoll" pattern outline. Trim the BID sandwich along the pattern lines with scissors, turn the sandwich over again ("OUT" side down), and peel the top sheet of plastic off of the sandwich. Transfer the whole stack (BID, BID, "OUT" plastic) into the tunnel and position/stipple/squeegee the layup in place. The plastic will help keep the BID from folding back onto itself AND will keep you from getting covered in epoxy. Once the BID is where you want it, peel the "OUT" plastic off and stipple any stubborn spots. Add peel ply to the edges if you want. Good luck! 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