Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (Jhleuropa@aol.com)
2. 08:57 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger ()
3. 09:48 AM - Unlatched outrigger (Fred Klein)
4. 11:08 AM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (Andrew Sarangan)
5. 02:42 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent ()
6. 04:14 PM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (JR Gowing)
7. 06:04 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (Andrew Sarangan)
8. 06:14 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (Keith Hickling)
9. 06:48 PM - Re: Removing PVA release agent (craig bastin)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Unlatched outrigger |
My Europa monowheel has been flying since 99 and initially I had three
incidents of an outrigger failing to latch which in the first two incidents,
resulted in minor scuffing damage to the outrigger leg. On the third occasion,
I
managed to recover early in the event by applying maximum aileron.
Thorough inspection,cleaning, relubrication and testing with A/C jacked up,
failed to reveal any reason or reoccurrence.
Since then, I always plan to deploy the gear around 70Kts in one swift and
positive movement, with a bit of a thump no less, and have not had a problem
since. A bit basic but it seems to work.
Hope this info is of some help.
John Lace.
G-OJHL 350 hours
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Unlatched outrigger |
My take on the outrigger latching system of a monowheel europa is that it
uses technology that is closer to a mechanical adding machine/typewriter
than airplane retractable undercarriage.
My Dad was a technician for both adding machines/typewriters and myself
being exposed to such in great detail even before kindergarten has
somewhat rubbed off onto me.
It's been a few years since I fooled with my outrigger assembly, but here
are some observations:
*When fooling with fit of OR4 latch, you are trying to find a compromise
with just enough clearance to not bind latch edge, because the more
clearance you leave the higher the factor of (wigulation) in gear leg when
retracted. I on purpose filed just enough to get latch in place with a
smooth action. Anything less than steady and smooth would not latch. I
fooled with it and found that change in temperature or if wing was in sun
on trailer would not allow a latch at all no matter what I did. I forget
now what was the worst case, but I filed just a little at a time till it
would just latch with a not so smooth actuation and filed a few thousands
more
*When things wear, begin to score and lube goes away or temperatures reach
extremes for me that can still be a different story compared to my new
build. I feel a lot more comfortable having micro switches telling me that
both OR4s are latched, If for some reason they do not latch, you have a
very good chance of being able to do a few actuation's and getting a
latch. If you just can not get a latch, then land with wind favoring push
on the latched outrigger.
When I do conditional or 100 hour, will swing gear and force "worst case"
and return to service only after I am satisfied with action.
All said will still try to load outriggers as little as possable, as per
preaching of John Hurst.
Ron Parigoris
Message 3
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Subject: | Unlatched outrigger |
After first assembling the outrigger along w/ the Club mod, when I
deployed the flaps (and outrigger) for the first time and heard that
resounding "THOWONGK", I truly marveled at the precision and complexity
of the mechanism, particularly the way the flap deploys an additional 2
degrees to ensure lock-down of the outrigger wheel.
But as I read of the operational issues (airspeed at deployment, wear
and tear, lubrication, effects of temperature, etc.), I've had an
increasing appreciation for the value of the microswitch-warning lights
which some builders have installed.
I gotta admit that I am challenged by all things electrical, so I would
humbly ask that someone...someone who can handle wiring diagrams,
warning lights, microswitches, and a digital camera (while skipping
rope and chewing gum at the same time)...please, put together an
illustrated tutorial (in crayon) showing just how this is done.
Fred
A-194
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Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Removing PVA release agent |
Ron
I used Palmolive dish soap and hot water. Made me sweat like a pig in
the 90-deg weather:-) I could only see small shreds of transparent
plastic wrap stuck to various surfaces. I am assuming this is the PVA
agent that has dried to form a thin film. I can peel off small chunks,
but I can't tell how much of the entire surface is covered with this
film. Most importantly, I tried soaking one of these pieces in hot
water and soap and it showed no tendency to dissolve even after an
hour. So obviously I am looking at the wrong stuff, or this is a lot
harder to remove than I had assumed.
Any thoughts?
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 2:33 PM, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew
>
> "I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module
>> has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more
>> like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA
>> release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of
>> washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order.
>> Does anyone have some advice on this?"
>
> Use the hottest water you can tolerate, we used just plain green Palmolive
> dish washing soap (great hand cleaner)and scotchbright pad. Once water
> sheets rather than beads up you can switch to plain water and
> scotchbright. You need to rinse off all the soap which is no trivial job.
> Just keep rinsing, you could use green scouring pads (for sinks) as well.
> When you think you got it all off, use some hot water "when" you see
> bubbles forming, keep at it.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Removing PVA release agent |
Hi Andrew
"I could only see small shreds of transparent
> plastic wrap stuck to various surfaces."
I am not sure of the exact designation of the release compound europa
uses, but it is in fact water soluble. Using scotch bright with Palmolive
takes it off OK. What you are describing does not sound like a release
agent. My kit was covered with tan packaging tape. Boy what a pain to get
off. It was definite not 3M 375 tape (my favorite packaging tape used
extensive in model building), but most likely some cheap stuff that got
stuck better than many of my layups! I am wondering if what you see is
very thin clear packaging tape?? Or shrink wrap pulled very tight on
remains of packaging tape?
www.mcmaster.com search:
Ultra-Sharp Razor blades
Buy a hundred Ultra-Sharp Carbon Steel Blades. Try some mineral spirits
and razor blades (and finger nails), it may be tape?? Can also try some
Isopropyl Alcohol. See if you can disolve with other than watere. Use
scotch-bright with a solvent that seems to work. Be very careful with
acetone and blue foam.
Shaving with very sharp razor blade and solvent sounds like a good plan
without seeing first hand??
Curious what your resolve will be.
Ron P.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Unlatched outrigger |
I strongly support Fred Klein's plea for such a tutorial!
JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Klein
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 2:45 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger
After first assembling the outrigger along w/ the Club mod, when I deploy
ed the flaps (and outrigger) for the first time and heard that resounding =22
THOWONGK=22, I truly marveled at the precision and complexity of the mechanis
m, particularly the way the flap deploys an additional 2 degrees to ensure
lock-down of the outrigger wheel.
But as I read of the operational issues (airspeed at deployment, wear and
tear, lubrication, effects of temperature, etc.), I've had an increasing a
ppreciation for the value of the microswitch-warning lights which some buil
ders have installed.
I gotta admit that I am challenged by all things electrical, so I would h
umbly ask that someone...someone who can handle wiring diagrams, warning li
ghts, microswitches, and a digital camera (while skipping rope and chewing
gum at the same time)...please, put together an illustrated tutorial (in cr
ayon) showing just how this is done.
Fred
A-194
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Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Removing PVA release agent |
Here is a link to some photos. It is in corners and crevices, so I
doubt it is packing tape. It does not dissolve in water at all. I
waited several hours. It really looks like cling wrap, or some type
of peel ply, but no one has mentioned its existence in the moldings.
It tears easily and only comes off in small bits, so it is hard to
guess how much of the surface is covered by this stuff. I will try
your suggestions on using a sharp blade and IPA. Let me know if you
see anything in the photos.
http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/europa/fuse/ch11.html
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 5:39 PM, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew
>
> "I could only see small shreds of transparent
>> plastic wrap stuck to various surfaces."
>
> I am not sure of the exact designation of the release compound europa
> uses, but it is in fact water soluble. Using scotch bright with Palmolive
> takes it off OK. What you are describing does not sound like a release
> agent. My kit was covered with tan packaging tape. Boy what a pain to get
> off. It was definite not 3M 375 tape (my favorite packaging tape used
> extensive in model building), but most likely some cheap stuff that got
> stuck better than many of my layups! I am wondering if what you see is
> very thin clear packaging tape?? Or shrink wrap pulled very tight on
> remains of packaging tape?
>
> www.mcmaster.com search:
> Ultra-Sharp Razor blades
>
> Buy a hundred Ultra-Sharp Carbon Steel Blades. Try some mineral spirits
> and razor blades (and finger nails), it may be tape?? Can also try some
> Isopropyl Alcohol. See if you can disolve with other than watere. Use
> scotch-bright with a solvent that seems to work. Be very careful with
> acetone and blue foam.
>
> Shaving with very sharp razor blade and solvent sounds like a good plan
> without seeing first hand??
>
> Curious what your resolve will be.
>
> Ron P.
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Removing PVA release agent |
Andrew,
I think what you are describing is plastic film remaining from the moulding
process (? part of vacuum bagging process). As I mentioned, Andy told me
there is no release agent on the non-moulded surfaces - ie on the underside
of the cockpit module. All I found was excess epoxy ridges and small pieces
of plastic film that was adherent in parts.
If that's what it is, and you are talking about the underside of the CM that
bonds to the fuselage, by the time you have sanded the bonding surfaces to
remove the epoxy ridges, leaving a fairly flat surface, you should find that
virtually all the plastic remnants are removed.
Keith Hickling.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Sarangan" <asarangan@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent
>
> Ron
>
> I used Palmolive dish soap and hot water. Made me sweat like a pig in
> the 90-deg weather:-) I could only see small shreds of transparent
> plastic wrap stuck to various surfaces. I am assuming this is the PVA
> agent that has dried to form a thin film. I can peel off small chunks,
> but I can't tell how much of the entire surface is covered with this
> film. Most importantly, I tried soaking one of these pieces in hot
> water and soap and it showed no tendency to dissolve even after an
> hour. So obviously I am looking at the wrong stuff, or this is a lot
> harder to remove than I had assumed.
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 2:33 PM, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrew
>>
>> "I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module
>>> has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more
>>> like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA
>>> release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of
>>> washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order.
>>> Does anyone have some advice on this?"
>>
>> Use the hottest water you can tolerate, we used just plain green
>> Palmolive
>> dish washing soap (great hand cleaner)and scotchbright pad. Once water
>> sheets rather than beads up you can switch to plain water and
>> scotchbright. You need to rinse off all the soap which is no trivial job.
>> Just keep rinsing, you could use green scouring pads (for sinks) as well.
>> When you think you got it all off, use some hot water "when" you see
>> bubbles forming, keep at it.
>>
>> Ron Parigoris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Removing PVA release agent |
FWIW some of my mouldings had a plastic film simmilar to what andrew
described, but mine
was orange in colour and so easy to spot, and embedded in the resin in a few
spots, normally around complex
corners etc, i just sanded the offending bits out as i went, as you suggest
keith i believe it is a part of the
bagging process and small pieces are getting trapped in the resin
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Keith
Hickling
Sent: Sunday, 20 July 2008 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent
<keithhickling@clear.net.nz>
Andrew,
I think what you are describing is plastic film remaining from the moulding
process (? part of vacuum bagging process). As I mentioned, Andy told me
there is no release agent on the non-moulded surfaces - ie on the underside
of the cockpit module. All I found was excess epoxy ridges and small pieces
of plastic film that was adherent in parts.
If that's what it is, and you are talking about the underside of the CM that
bonds to the fuselage, by the time you have sanded the bonding surfaces to
remove the epoxy ridges, leaving a fairly flat surface, you should find that
virtually all the plastic remnants are removed.
Keith Hickling.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Sarangan" <asarangan@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Removing PVA release agent
>
> Ron
>
> I used Palmolive dish soap and hot water. Made me sweat like a pig in
> the 90-deg weather:-) I could only see small shreds of transparent
> plastic wrap stuck to various surfaces. I am assuming this is the PVA
> agent that has dried to form a thin film. I can peel off small chunks,
> but I can't tell how much of the entire surface is covered with this
> film. Most importantly, I tried soaking one of these pieces in hot
> water and soap and it showed no tendency to dissolve even after an
> hour. So obviously I am looking at the wrong stuff, or this is a lot
> harder to remove than I had assumed.
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 2:33 PM, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrew
>>
>> "I am not sure what the PVA release agent looks like. My cockpit module
>>> has very thick glossy stuff all over the the underside. It looks more
>>> like excessive epoxy. But I am concerned if this might be the PVA
>>> release agent. If so, it's not going to come off with any amount of
>>> washing in soap and water. Some heavy duty sanding would be in order.
>>> Does anyone have some advice on this?"
>>
>> Use the hottest water you can tolerate, we used just plain green
>> Palmolive
>> dish washing soap (great hand cleaner)and scotchbright pad. Once water
>> sheets rather than beads up you can switch to plain water and
>> scotchbright. You need to rinse off all the soap which is no trivial job.
>> Just keep rinsing, you could use green scouring pads (for sinks) as well.
>> When you think you got it all off, use some hot water "when" you see
>> bubbles forming, keep at it.
>>
>> Ron Parigoris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
2:01 PM
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