Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - DOTH anyone?? (Bryan Allsop)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk)
3. 04:48 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (craig bastin)
4. 07:19 AM - DOTH anyone? (Bryan Allsop)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: {SPAM 05.3} DOTH anyone?? (Richard Iddon)
6. 08:15 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (Fred Klein)
8. 09:40 AM - Re: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo (danbish)
9. 11:59 AM - DOTH anyone?? FENLAND (Bryan Allsop)
10. 03:05 PM - Wing root fairing (Fred Klein)
11. 03:18 PM - Re: Wing root fairing (Jeff B)
12. 05:36 PM - Re: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Robert Borger)
13. 06:28 PM - Europa wing root fairings (Fred Klein)
14. 06:36 PM - Re: Wing Root Fairings (Fred Klein)
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It seems like a long time since the weather presented us with a shot at a D
OTH. Does anyone fancy making a suggestion for tomorrow (Wednesday)?
Bryan.
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Subject: | Unlatched outrigger |
There are probably at least two or more positions where the microswitch
can be placed to sense the down and latched position. Which you choose
is up to you. I found that by attaching it directly to the OR4 no extra
mounting plate was required. It was a relatively simple matter to route
the wiring so that the movement of the OR4 was not an issue. To keep
the wiring compact I used 20 gauge single coaxial aircraft quality
wire.
I guess that my intermittent earth connection problem is at the plug-
socket connection at the back of the panel. I might reroute the earth
connection direct to the battery to overcome this.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: 21 July 2008 22:50
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger
Regarding micro switches, it should only close when the outrigger is
'down and locked' and not simply when it is 'down'. I haven't seen
any discussion of the best location for the microswitch, but my belief
is that it should be on the OR7B step, with the switch tab facing OR5
arm. I have not installed it yet, but attached is a couple of diagrams
of what I am planning to do. Please let me know your thoughts.
__________________________________________________________
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Subject: | Unlatched outrigger |
Just a thought here, but has anyone considered using a 3 or 5 mWatt laser diode
and a CCD (with appropriate circuit) in place of the micro switches, I realise
micro switches are cheaper, but with a setup that has no moving parts, therefor
less likely to go out of calibration, it could be a better long term option, with
the laser
firing through a pin hole in some portion of the outrigger only when in the fully
locked
position
Just a thought
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk
Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2008 8:36 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger
There are probably at least two or more positions where the microswitch
can be placed to sense the down and latched position. Which you choose
is up to you. I found that by attaching it directly to the OR4 no extra
mounting plate was required. It was a relatively simple matter to route
the wiring so that the movement of the OR4 was not an issue. To keep
the wiring compact I used 20 gauge single coaxial aircraft quality
wire.
I guess that my intermittent earth connection problem is at the plug-
socket connection at the back of the panel. I might reroute the earth
connection direct to the battery to overcome this.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: 21 July 2008 22:50
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger
Regarding micro switches, it should only close when the outrigger is
'down and locked' and not simply when it is 'down'. I haven't seen
any discussion of the best location for the microswitch, but my belief
is that it should be on the OR7B step, with the switch tab facing OR5
arm. I have not installed it yet, but attached is a couple of diagrams
of what I am planning to do. Please let me know your thoughts.
__________________________________________________________
Free games for all the family - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play
__________________________________________________________
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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I have had a response from Ray Wren. He has made the following contribution
:-
"the AT3 is not quite asnippy as the Europa so anywhere within 125 + nm fro
m Fairoaks is veryacceptable." Any thoughts? Bryan
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Great idea Bryan. I don't have any magazines at present for free
landings but am open to suggestions. Let me know where you fancy.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Finally back in the air!!
It seems like a long time since the weather presented us with a shot at
a DOTH. Does anyone fancy making a suggestion for tomorrow (Wednesday)?
Bryan.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
7/22/2008 6:00 AM
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Subject: | Unlatched outrigger |
>- Is there a size or rating for the type of microswitch referred to?<
Choose size that suits the are where it is going to be placed. Most
microswitches ratings are sufficient to power an indicator light.
>- Is there a specific microswitch which would be especially suitable
for this application, or are we simply talking about a generic,
universal type?<
Generic universal type will be fine. Some have holes in the body
making them easy to attach.
>- What size wiring would be suitable?<
Any low current wiring (20 or 22 gauge) will be fine. If you use
sheathed cable the sheath can be used for the earth contact keeping the
overall section of the cable small.
>- Would "outrigger warning lights" imply that there would be a red
light and a green light, or just the absence of a green light (when the
outrigger is not down and locked?<
I didn=99t bother with a red light for the outriggers but by using a
pair of microswitches for the main gear I have arranged it so that
there are 3 greens when the gear is down, one red when unlocked and no
lights with the gear up.
>Are we talking about LEDs, or some kind of bulb?<
Either will be fine but as higher power LED=99s are now available the
se
make an obvious choice as they use less power and last longer. I have
also fitted a lights test button to test all my warning lights but this
adds complication because a diode is required for the test feed power
for each warning light.
>- Any chance of a photo of an installed system?<
I am abroad at the moment. The photos if I took them would show a
block of 4 labelled rectangular warning lights (3 green, 1 red) on the
instrument panel just to the right of the gear lever in the up position
and a microswitch mounted to the OR4 positioned so its lever arm is
depressed by the OR7B when the outrigger is latched down,
>Like I said in my original post, my being electrically-challenged, I
plead for information spelled out in crayon,<
If it is of help there is a copy of my wiring diagram attached to this
email. Ignore the transistor part of the circuit. That is a gear
position sense feed for the uEncoder.
Nigel
__________________________________________________________
Free games for all the family - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play
__________________________________________________________
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Subject: | Re: Unlatched outrigger |
Nigel,
Thank you so much for the detailed information and concise answers to
my questions. To the untutored like myself, your circuit diagram is not
exactly "in crayon" but I'm sure I can find a local pal to translate
for me, and it is afterall, just another opportunity for me to learn
something!
Cheers,
Fred
A194
On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008, at 08:12 US/Pacific, nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk
wrote:
>
>> - Is there a size or rating for the type of microswitch referred to?<
>
> Choose size that suits the are where it is going to be placed. Most
> microswitches ratings are sufficient to power an indicator light.
>
>> - Is there a specific microswitch which would be especially suitable
> for this application, or are we simply talking about a generic,
> universal type?<
>
> Generic universal type will be fine. Some have holes in the body
> making them easy to attach.
>
>> - What size wiring would be suitable?<
>
> Any low current wiring (20 or 22 gauge) will be fine. If you use
> sheathed cable the sheath can be used for the earth contact keeping the
> overall section of the cable small.
>
>> - Would "outrigger warning lights" imply that there would be a red
> light and a green light, or just the absence of a green light (when the
> outrigger is not down and locked?<
>
> I didnt bother with a red light for the outriggers but by using a
> pair of microswitches for the main gear I have arranged it so that
> there are 3 greens when the gear is down, one red when unlocked and no
> lights with the gear up.
>
>> Are we talking about LEDs, or some kind of bulb?<
>
> Either will be fine but as higher power LEDs are now available these
> make an obvious choice as they use less power and last longer. I have
> also fitted a lights test button to test all my warning lights but this
> adds complication because a diode is required for the test feed power
> for each warning light.
>
>> - Any chance of a photo of an installed system?<
>
> I am abroad at the moment. The photos if I took them would show a
> block of 4 labelled rectangular warning lights (3 green, 1 red) on the
> instrument panel just to the right of the gear lever in the up position
> and a microswitch mounted to the OR4 positioned so its lever arm is
> depressed by the OR7B when the outrigger is latched down,
>
>> Like I said in my original post, my being electrically-challenged, I
> plead for information spelled out in crayon,<
>
> If it is of help there is a copy of my wiring diagram attached to this
> email. Ignore the transistor part of the circuit. That is a gear
> position sense feed for the uEncoder.
>
> Nigel
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Free games for all the family - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play
> __________________________________________________________
> <Gear wrng.jpg>
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Subject: | Re: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo |
Hi Fred,
Nice work on the fairings. What would a set cost?
Dan
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 9
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Subject: | DOTH anyone?? FENLAND |
Nice to see you back Richard.
In the absence of any other suggestions=2C and with nothing in the July mag
azines worth visiting=2C I am proposing a trip to Fenland.
They have a nice clubhouse=2C and it is a reasonable distance for most. Usu
al mid-day ETA.
Bryan
From: riddon@sent.comTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: {SPAM 05.3}
Europa-List: DOTH anyone??Date: Tue=2C 22 Jul 2008 15:43:11 +0100
Great idea Bryan. I don=92t have any magazines at present for free landing
s but am open to suggestions. Let me know where you fancy.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Finally back in the air!!
It seems like a long time since the weather presented us with a shot at a D
OTH. Does anyone fancy making a suggestion for tomorrow (Wednesday)? Bryan.
7/22/2008 6:00 AM
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Subject: | Wing root fairing |
All,
I've posted a new photoshare and narrative on my new wing root fairing
at:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fklein@orcasonline.com.07.21.2008
The design is an elaboration on the work done by Justin Kennedy
(G-ZTED) and though I can make no claims at this time for improved
performance, Justin plans a series of flight tests for the Club which
are intended to authenticate his favorable experiences.
Here are a couple of snaps...sorry...just couldn't resist the photo of
the Spitfire,
Cheers,
Fred
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Subject: | Re: Wing root fairing |
Fred,
Be sure to make molds. I want to borrow them... :)
Jeff - Baby Blue
Fred Klein wrote:
> All,
>
> I've posted a new photoshare and narrative on my new wing root fairing at:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fklein@orcasonline.com.07.21.2008
>
> The design is an elaboration on the work done by Justin Kennedy (G-ZTED)
> and though I can make no claims at this time for improved performance,
> Justin plans a series of flight tests for the Club which are intended to
> authenticate his favorable experiences.
>
> Here are a couple of snaps...sorry...just couldn't resist the photo of
> the Spitfire,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo Share |
Available!
Fred,
Very cool! You will need to make a production mold for those.
There's going to be a serious demand for them!
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(99% done) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed,
pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with
Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins
in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, baggage bay in.
Fuel system complete. Rotax and Airmaster installed. Mods 62, 66, 70
& 72 done. Completed the instrument panel install. Europa interior
kit being installed. Installed windows. 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30
Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing all
done. Mostly finishing up odds and ends these days.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jul 22, 2008, at 0:00, Email List PhotoShares wrote:
> >
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
> Lists: Europa-List
>
> Subject: Europa Wing Root Fillet/Fairing
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fklein@orcasonline.com.07.21.2008
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please
> include the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Subject: | Europa wing root fairings |
> Very cool! You will need to make a production mold for those.
> There's going to be a serious demand for them!
Hey Bob,
Thanks...yes, cool is good!. But I believe they will function somewhat
better than Justin Kennedy's who claims enhanced performance...he sez
he "delays the wall of drag most Europas hit at 130 kts. until 150
kts". Justin also notes,
"Absolute cracking result. I predict you will be one of the fastest
Europas. Not only that but in a shallow cruise decent you should reach
Vne very, if not too, easily. Where and how to make the join is a tricky
one. I sent you pictures of how we did it but it is quite arbitrary. We
left a small amount of the under fairing attached to the flap which, as
it curled down, served to stop the air spilling off the end of the flap
in ground effect situations. The jury is still out on whether this is
desirable or not.
"When ours was test flown by Andy Draper at the factory we did not need
the stall strips on the leading edge as a satisfactory buffet was
experienced without them. Andy put this down to the wing roots so that
is something to look out for. I hate these little plastic stall strips
on the leading edge and was v. happy that we did not need them." (That
may be an issue particular to the Classic)
I'd love to see a set put on someone's plane which has recorded flight
test #s just to see what they do.
As for my mold, a local guy who used to do FG work at Boeing looked
over my shoulder and recommended 4 layers bid tooling cloth which is
8/9 oz. w/ a pretty tight weave...he's made many production molds from
FG, but we'll see.
You have GOT to be nearing First Flight!...I do envy you!
Fred
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Subject: | Re: Wing Root Fairings |
On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008, at 17:28 US/Pacific, Robert Borger wrote:
> Very cool! You will need to make a production mold for those.
> There's going to be a serious demand for them!
>
> Good building and great flying,
> Bob Borger
Geezus Bob...I just responded to your email BUT instead of sending it
direct to you in went out to the forum...it was not my intention to
blab about potential performance enhancement nor to quote Justin
Kennedy to the whole world!
My most sincere apologies for my carelessness,
Fred
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