---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/22/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:04 AM - DOTH anyone?? (Bryan Allsop) 2. 04:01 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk) 3. 04:48 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (craig bastin) 4. 07:19 AM - DOTH anyone? (Bryan Allsop) 5. 07:46 AM - Re: {SPAM 05.3} DOTH anyone?? (Richard Iddon) 6. 08:15 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk) 7. 09:39 AM - Re: Unlatched outrigger (Fred Klein) 8. 09:40 AM - Re: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo (danbish) 9. 11:59 AM - DOTH anyone?? FENLAND (Bryan Allsop) 10. 03:05 PM - Wing root fairing (Fred Klein) 11. 03:18 PM - Re: Wing root fairing (Jeff B) 12. 05:36 PM - Re: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Robert Borger) 13. 06:28 PM - Europa wing root fairings (Fred Klein) 14. 06:36 PM - Re: Wing Root Fairings (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:38 AM PST US From: Bryan Allsop Subject: Europa-List: DOTH anyone?? It seems like a long time since the weather presented us with a shot at a D OTH. Does anyone fancy making a suggestion for tomorrow (Wednesday)? Bryan. _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mess enger2_072008 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:29 AM PST US From: "nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger There are probably at least two or more positions where the microswitch can be placed to sense the down and latched position. Which you choose is up to you. I found that by attaching it directly to the OR4 no extra mounting plate was required. It was a relatively simple matter to route the wiring so that the movement of the OR4 was not an issue. To keep the wiring compact I used 20 gauge single coaxial aircraft quality wire. I guess that my intermittent earth connection problem is at the plug- socket connection at the back of the panel. I might reroute the earth connection direct to the battery to overcome this. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan Sent: 21 July 2008 22:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger Regarding micro switches, it should only close when the outrigger is 'down and locked' and not simply when it is 'down'. I haven't seen any discussion of the best location for the microswitch, but my belief is that it should be on the OR7B step, with the switch tab facing OR5 arm. I have not installed it yet, but attached is a couple of diagrams of what I am planning to do. Please let me know your thoughts. __________________________________________________________ Free games for all the family - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:17 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger Just a thought here, but has anyone considered using a 3 or 5 mWatt laser diode and a CCD (with appropriate circuit) in place of the micro switches, I realise micro switches are cheaper, but with a setup that has no moving parts, therefor less likely to go out of calibration, it could be a better long term option, with the laser firing through a pin hole in some portion of the outrigger only when in the fully locked position Just a thought Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2008 8:36 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger There are probably at least two or more positions where the microswitch can be placed to sense the down and latched position. Which you choose is up to you. I found that by attaching it directly to the OR4 no extra mounting plate was required. It was a relatively simple matter to route the wiring so that the movement of the OR4 was not an issue. To keep the wiring compact I used 20 gauge single coaxial aircraft quality wire. I guess that my intermittent earth connection problem is at the plug- socket connection at the back of the panel. I might reroute the earth connection direct to the battery to overcome this. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan Sent: 21 July 2008 22:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger Regarding micro switches, it should only close when the outrigger is 'down and locked' and not simply when it is 'down'. I haven't seen any discussion of the best location for the microswitch, but my belief is that it should be on the OR7B step, with the switch tab facing OR5 arm. I have not installed it yet, but attached is a couple of diagrams of what I am planning to do. Please let me know your thoughts. __________________________________________________________ Free games for all the family - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play __________________________________________________________ Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:09 AM PST US From: Bryan Allsop Subject: Europa-List: DOTH anyone? I have had a response from Ray Wren. He has made the following contribution :- "the AT3 is not quite asnippy as the Europa so anywhere within 125 + nm fro m Fairoaks is veryacceptable." Any thoughts? Bryan _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live for mobile=2C your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mobile_ 072008 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:06 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: {SPAM 05.3} Europa-List: DOTH anyone?? Great idea Bryan. I don't have any magazines at present for free landings but am open to suggestions. Let me know where you fancy. Richard Iddon G-RIXS Finally back in the air!! It seems like a long time since the weather presented us with a shot at a DOTH. Does anyone fancy making a suggestion for tomorrow (Wednesday)? Bryan. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7/22/2008 6:00 AM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:53 AM PST US From: "nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger >- Is there a size or rating for the type of microswitch referred to?< Choose size that suits the are where it is going to be placed. Most microswitches ratings are sufficient to power an indicator light. >- Is there a specific microswitch which would be especially suitable for this application, or are we simply talking about a generic, universal type?< Generic universal type will be fine. Some have holes in the body making them easy to attach. >- What size wiring would be suitable?< Any low current wiring (20 or 22 gauge) will be fine. If you use sheathed cable the sheath can be used for the earth contact keeping the overall section of the cable small. >- Would "outrigger warning lights" imply that there would be a red light and a green light, or just the absence of a green light (when the outrigger is not down and locked?< I didn=99t bother with a red light for the outriggers but by using a pair of microswitches for the main gear I have arranged it so that there are 3 greens when the gear is down, one red when unlocked and no lights with the gear up. >Are we talking about LEDs, or some kind of bulb?< Either will be fine but as higher power LED=99s are now available the se make an obvious choice as they use less power and last longer. I have also fitted a lights test button to test all my warning lights but this adds complication because a diode is required for the test feed power for each warning light. >- Any chance of a photo of an installed system?< I am abroad at the moment. The photos if I took them would show a block of 4 labelled rectangular warning lights (3 green, 1 red) on the instrument panel just to the right of the gear lever in the up position and a microswitch mounted to the OR4 positioned so its lever arm is depressed by the OR7B when the outrigger is latched down, >Like I said in my original post, my being electrically-challenged, I plead for information spelled out in crayon,< If it is of help there is a copy of my wiring diagram attached to this email. Ignore the transistor part of the circuit. That is a gear position sense feed for the uEncoder. Nigel __________________________________________________________ Free games for all the family - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Unlatched outrigger From: Fred Klein Nigel, Thank you so much for the detailed information and concise answers to my questions. To the untutored like myself, your circuit diagram is not exactly "in crayon" but I'm sure I can find a local pal to translate for me, and it is afterall, just another opportunity for me to learn something! Cheers, Fred A194 On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008, at 08:12 US/Pacific, nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > >> - Is there a size or rating for the type of microswitch referred to?< > > Choose size that suits the are where it is going to be placed. Most > microswitches ratings are sufficient to power an indicator light. > >> - Is there a specific microswitch which would be especially suitable > for this application, or are we simply talking about a generic, > universal type?< > > Generic universal type will be fine. Some have holes in the body > making them easy to attach. > >> - What size wiring would be suitable?< > > Any low current wiring (20 or 22 gauge) will be fine. If you use > sheathed cable the sheath can be used for the earth contact keeping the > overall section of the cable small. > >> - Would "outrigger warning lights" imply that there would be a red > light and a green light, or just the absence of a green light (when the > outrigger is not down and locked?< > > I didnt bother with a red light for the outriggers but by using a > pair of microswitches for the main gear I have arranged it so that > there are 3 greens when the gear is down, one red when unlocked and no > lights with the gear up. > >> Are we talking about LEDs, or some kind of bulb?< > > Either will be fine but as higher power LEDs are now available these > make an obvious choice as they use less power and last longer. I have > also fitted a lights test button to test all my warning lights but this > adds complication because a diode is required for the test feed power > for each warning light. > >> - Any chance of a photo of an installed system?< > > I am abroad at the moment. The photos if I took them would show a > block of 4 labelled rectangular warning lights (3 green, 1 red) on the > instrument panel just to the right of the gear lever in the up position > and a microswitch mounted to the OR4 positioned so its lever arm is > depressed by the OR7B when the outrigger is latched down, > >> Like I said in my original post, my being electrically-challenged, I > plead for information spelled out in crayon,< > > If it is of help there is a copy of my wiring diagram attached to this > email. Ignore the transistor part of the circuit. That is a gear > position sense feed for the uEncoder. > > Nigel > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Free games for all the family - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play > __________________________________________________________ > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo From: "danbish" Hi Fred, Nice work on the fairings. What would a set cost? Dan Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:17 AM PST US From: Bryan Allsop Subject: Europa-List: DOTH anyone?? FENLAND Nice to see you back Richard. In the absence of any other suggestions=2C and with nothing in the July mag azines worth visiting=2C I am proposing a trip to Fenland. They have a nice clubhouse=2C and it is a reasonable distance for most. Usu al mid-day ETA. Bryan From: riddon@sent.comTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: {SPAM 05.3} Europa-List: DOTH anyone??Date: Tue=2C 22 Jul 2008 15:43:11 +0100 Great idea Bryan. I don=92t have any magazines at present for free landing s but am open to suggestions. Let me know where you fancy. Richard Iddon G-RIXS Finally back in the air!! It seems like a long time since the weather presented us with a shot at a D OTH. Does anyone fancy making a suggestion for tomorrow (Wednesday)? Bryan. 7/22/2008 6:00 AM _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ family_safety_072008 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:34 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Wing root fairing From: Fred Klein All, I've posted a new photoshare and narrative on my new wing root fairing at: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fklein@orcasonline.com.07.21.2008 The design is an elaboration on the work done by Justin Kennedy (G-ZTED) and though I can make no claims at this time for improved performance, Justin plans a series of flight tests for the Club which are intended to authenticate his favorable experiences. Here are a couple of snaps...sorry...just couldn't resist the photo of the Spitfire, Cheers, Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:11 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing root fairing Fred, Be sure to make molds. I want to borrow them... :) Jeff - Baby Blue Fred Klein wrote: > All, > > I've posted a new photoshare and narrative on my new wing root fairing at: > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fklein@orcasonline.com.07.21.2008 > > The design is an elaboration on the work done by Justin Kennedy (G-ZTED) > and though I can make no claims at this time for improved performance, > Justin plans a series of flight tests for the Club which are intended to > authenticate his favorable experiences. > > Here are a couple of snaps...sorry...just couldn't resist the photo of > the Spitfire, > > Cheers, > > Fred > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:40 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa : [ Fred Klein ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! Fred, Very cool! You will need to make a production mold for those. There's going to be a serious demand for them! Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (99% done) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, baggage bay in. Fuel system complete. Rotax and Airmaster installed. Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done. Completed the instrument panel install. Europa interior kit being installed. Installed windows. 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing all done. Mostly finishing up odds and ends these days. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jul 22, 2008, at 0:00, Email List PhotoShares wrote: > > > > A new Email List Photo Share is available: > > Poster: Fred Klein > > Lists: Europa-List > > Subject: Europa Wing Root Fillet/Fairing > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fklein@orcasonline.com.07.21.2008 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > o Main Photo Share Index > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > o Submitting a Photo Share > > If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please > include the > following information along with your email message and files: > > 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: > 2) Your Full Name: > 3) Your Email Address: > 4) One line Subject description: > 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: > 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: > > Email the information above and your files and photos to: > > pictures@matronics.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:32 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europa wing root fairings From: Fred Klein > Very cool! You will need to make a production mold for those. > There's going to be a serious demand for them! Hey Bob, Thanks...yes, cool is good!. But I believe they will function somewhat better than Justin Kennedy's who claims enhanced performance...he sez he "delays the wall of drag most Europas hit at 130 kts. until 150 kts". Justin also notes, "Absolute cracking result. I predict you will be one of the fastest Europas. Not only that but in a shallow cruise decent you should reach Vne very, if not too, easily. Where and how to make the join is a tricky one. I sent you pictures of how we did it but it is quite arbitrary. We left a small amount of the under fairing attached to the flap which, as it curled down, served to stop the air spilling off the end of the flap in ground effect situations. The jury is still out on whether this is desirable or not. "When ours was test flown by Andy Draper at the factory we did not need the stall strips on the leading edge as a satisfactory buffet was experienced without them. Andy put this down to the wing roots so that is something to look out for. I hate these little plastic stall strips on the leading edge and was v. happy that we did not need them." (That may be an issue particular to the Classic) I'd love to see a set put on someone's plane which has recorded flight test #s just to see what they do. As for my mold, a local guy who used to do FG work at Boeing looked over my shoulder and recommended 4 layers bid tooling cloth which is 8/9 oz. w/ a pretty tight weave...he's made many production molds from FG, but we'll see. You have GOT to be nearing First Flight!...I do envy you! Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Root Fairings From: Fred Klein On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008, at 17:28 US/Pacific, Robert Borger wrote: > Very cool! You will need to make a production mold for those. > There's going to be a serious demand for them! > > Good building and great flying, > Bob Borger Geezus Bob...I just responded to your email BUT instead of sending it direct to you in went out to the forum...it was not my intention to blab about potential performance enhancement nor to quote Justin Kennedy to the whole world! My most sincere apologies for my carelessness, Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.