Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:05 AM - Overheating 914 (David Joyce)
2. 02:53 AM - Re: resin pump (vicflett@tiscali.co.uk)
3. 03:54 AM - Pneumatic Installation (UVTReith)
4. 04:46 AM - Re: Overheating 914 (Ivor Phillips)
5. 09:19 AM - Re: Pneumatic Installation ()
6. 10:37 AM - Re: Pneumatic Installation (David Joyce)
7. 10:51 AM - Airplane building tips instructional videos ()
8. 01:19 PM - Re: Pneumatic Installation (josok)
9. 03:00 PM - Re: Pneumatic Installation (rparigoris)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
A few months back, someone (whose identity unfortunately I can't remember)
had problems with a 914 overheating. As mine now seems to be doing the same
thing I would be grateful to hear from him, particularly if a solution was
found!
Regards, David Joyce
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Carl,
the contamination is small dark particles and reddish colour which
could be corrosion inside the mechanism.
thanks
Vic
>----Original Message----
>From: carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk
>Date: 24/07/2008 21:33
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subj: Re: Europa-List: resin pump
>
freeserve.co.uk>
>
>My guess is that Acetone would do the job.
>
>It should be possible to dismantle the pump mechanism. If it is
anything
>like mine it is just a piston, spring and ball bearing valve.
>
>But pumping/ recycling solvent through the system should remove most
of the
>krud.
>
>BTW, in what way is the hardener vessel contaminating the hardener?
>
>Carl Pattinson
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <vicflett@tiscali.co.uk>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:34 PM
>Subject: Europa-List: resin pump
>
>
>> <vicflett@tiscali.co.uk>
>>
>> Hi eveyone,
>>
>> just starting out on the build and have a question.
>>
>> i purchased a second hand resin pump and when i used it i noticed
that
>> the hardener vessel is contaminating the hardener.
>> can anyone suggest the best way to clean out the mechanism?
>> thanks
>> Vic
>>
>>>----Original Message----
>>>From: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>Date: 24/07/2008 7:56
>>>To: "Europa-List Digest List"<europa-list-digest@matronics.com>
>>>Subj: Europa-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 07/23/08
>>>
>>>*
>>>
>>> =================================================
>>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>>> =================================================
>>>
>>>Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of
>> the
>>>two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
>> formatted
>>>in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>> Indexes
>>>and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
>> version
>>>of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
>> editor
>>>such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>>
>>>HTML Version:
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
>> Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-07-23&Archive=Europa
>>>
>>>Text Version:
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
>> Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-07-23&Archive=Europa
>>>
>>>
>>> ===============================================
>>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>>> ===============================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Europa-List Digest Archive
>>> ---
>>> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/23/08: 4
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>Today's Message Index:
>>>----------------------
>>>
>>> 1. 03:50 AM - Re: Wing Root Fairings (rlborger)
>>> 2. 01:11 PM - Increased oil pressure (Bryan Allsop)
>>> 3. 01:40 PM - Re: Increased oil pressure (Ivor Phillips)
>>> 4. 11:34 PM - Re: Europa kit for sale (Lisbet og Gert
Dalgaard)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>Time: 03:50:09 AM PST US
>>>From: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Root Fairings
>>>
>>>Fred,
>>>
>>>The wonders of e-mail! Send your voice to the world, whether you
>> want
>>>to or not. No apologies necessary.
>>>
>>>No matter. I like your fairings and you can consider me a
>> potential
>>>customer for a set even if they didn't add a single knot of TAS. I
>>>just like the looks. But if they add knots and provide some stall
>>>buffet, so much the better.
>>>
>>>Do not archive...
>>>
>>>Good building and great flying,
>>>Bob Borger
>>>Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
>>>http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
>>>(99.9% done) Waiting on some small parts from ACS and B&C so I can
>>>correct the wiring of the starting circuit.
>>>3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>>>Corinth, TX 76208
>>>Home: 940-497-2123
>>>Cel: 817-992-1117
>>>
>>>On Jul 22, 2008, at 8:33 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008, at 17:28 US/Pacific, Robert Borger
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Very cool! You will need to make a production mold for those.
>>>>> There's going to be a serious demand for them!
>>>>>
>>>>> Good building and great flying,
>>>>> Bob Borger
>>>>
>>>> Geezus Bob...I just responded to your email BUT instead of
>> sending
>>>> it direct to you in went out to the forum...it was not my
>> intention
>>>> to blab about potential performance enhancement nor to quote
>> Justin
>>>> Kennedy to the whole world!
>>>>
>>>> My most sincere apologies for my carelessness,
>>>>
>>>> Fred
>>>
>>>________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>Time: 01:11:19 PM PST US
>>>From: Bryan Allsop <bryanallsop@hotmail.com>
>>>Subject: Europa-List: Increased oil pressure
>>>
>>>
>>>My 912s Rotax has performed very reliably for over 400 hours=2C but
I
>> am be
>>>ginning to notice that the oil pressure is rising.
>>>
>>>The pressure normally sits at 4 bar=2C but it is now rising to 6
bar
>> in fli
>>>ght=2C and drops back on idling.
>>>
>>>Is this common=2C or is indicative of an impending problem?
>>>
>>>Bryan
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
>>>http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?
>> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_
>>>family_safety_072008
>>>
>>>________________________________ Message 3
>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>Time: 01:40:34 PM PST US
>>>From: "Ivor Phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
>>>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Increased oil pressure
>>>
>>>I would check the connector on the oil pressure switch first, a Bad
>>>connection will show as a apparent rise in pressure, Rotax do
>>>recommend having the sensor remotely fitted using a flexible pipe
to
>>>reduce vibration,
>>>Are you using the latest type with brass collar, which supposedly
>> helped
>>>to damp down the vibration and extend the sensors life
>>>Regards
>>>Ivor
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
>>>Allsop
>>>Sent: 23 July 2008 21:08
>>>Subject: Europa-List: Increased oil pressure
>>>
>>>My 912s Rotax has performed very reliably for over 400 hours, but I
>> am
>>>beginning to notice that the oil pressure is rising.
>>>
>>>The pressure normally sits at 4 bar, but it is now rising to 6 bar
in
>>>flight, and drops back on idling.
>>>
>>>Is this common, or is indicative of an impending problem?
>>>
>>>Bryan
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>>Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help
>>>protect your kids.
>>><http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?
>> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_W
>>>L_family_safety_072008>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________ Message 4
>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>Time: 11:34:54 PM PST US
>>>From: Lisbet og Gert Dalgaard <lgds@post6.tele.dk>
>>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa kit for sale
>>>
>>>Hi John
>>>Thank you very much for your offer, but right now I an looking for
>> a
>>>finished Europa.
>>>I will though keep your mail if things change.
>>>Regards Gert
>>>
>>>
>>>Den 21/07/2008 kl. 16.42 skrev John and Amy Eckel:
>>>
>>>> This is here a second time because I hit send prematurely.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My Europa XS tri-gear is for sale. The kit is about half
>> finished
>>>> and includes the 912 FWF kit.
>>>> I am asking $32K USD, but I am willing to negotiate.
>>>>
>>>> I will be at Oshkosh all week. If you are going to be there and
>>>> would like to talk email me and we can
>>>> exchange cell phone numbers.
>>>>
>>>> The kit is advertized in Trade-a-Plane.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> John Eckel, A230
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________
>>
>> Fight the credit crunch; get paid to recycle -
>> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/recycle
>> _______________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
Fight the credit crunch; get paid to recycle - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/recycle
_______________________________________________________________
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Pneumatic Installation |
Dear David, dear Ron,
First of all many thanks for your advices and input.
So my point was to use the Europa static tube on the pitot/static device as
AOA signal for the Dynon.
Ron, are you sure that the position of the Europa device is too far back?
Hundreds of Europas are flying with this system very successfully.
As my plane is completely ready, it makes no sense to cut another hole into
the wings. For the Dynon I will now open and clean the static tube, get a
sleeve over that and will extend with a 45 bended tube to a (better?)
position. Flight tests later will show the best lengths.
Best Regard,
Bruno
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von rparigoris
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Juli 2008 00:03
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: Re: AW: Pneumatic Installation
Hi Bruno
If you bend down static port after you remove bullet so it is at a 45 degree
down angle there is a chance you may get some usable AOA information when at
Factory position. As mentioned in my album it is too far aft for optimal
performance because the true airflow will have become distorted because too
much wing is upwind (in other words airflow will begin to follow the bottom
of the wing).
If it is unacceptable you can move both the static and AOA (old pitot) to
position shown in my album. BTW that position was carefully chosen and
allows for pitot/ AOA tubes to somewhat be protected when wing is on Factory
trailer.
Ron P.
BTW be very careful grabbing the tube for bending, you can easily crush it.
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
David I believe it was Ian Rickard asking about G-IRON,
Regards
Ivor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Sent: 25 July 2008 10:02
Subject: Europa-List: Overheating 914
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
A few months back, someone (whose identity unfortunately I can't
remember)
had problems with a 914 overheating. As mine now seems to be doing the
same
thing I would be grateful to hear from him, particularly if a solution
was
found!
Regards, David Joyce
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Installation |
Hi Bruno
"Ron, are you sure that the position of the Europa device is too far back?
> Hundreds of Europas are flying with this system very successfully."
I know of no Europa that is flying successfully with a AOA probe in the
factory position. True there are many Europas flying with pitot and static
in the factory position, but AOA is a different beast.
If you read the Dynon install manual for the AOA it tells you the position
they want you to install it. They are also advocates to only use their
offered outrageous probe.
I am not certain that the AOA will not work in the factory position. I
plan on trying mine first in the factory position where I know at least I
have at least a pretty good chance of an accurate airspeed indication.
Off topic a bit but to tune a factory static port, an O ring can be
installed, I think neutral is ~ 1" aft of cross drilled holes, more
forward increases pressure, more aft decreases pressure (I may be a bit
off on neutral point??)
Back to AOA, I would suggest you try yours in the Factory position and
please let me know how well it works. My gut feeling is there is a chance
it may give some useful AoA information, but not complete.
For me if Factory position gives unacceptable AOA info, after I learn how
to fly with semi accurate airspeed info I will move it along with my pitot
and static to my new more forward position and deal with getting pitot and
static happy again. I am not thrilled to fly a new plane I am unfamiliar
with with airspeed and static that may be a lot more whacked than if it
were in Factory position.
You see the Dynon learns your airplane when you go into their learn mode.
For AOA it is a pretty simple concept, the more direct the air flows into
the AOA probe, the greater the pressure. Best location is 3 or more feet
in front of the lead edge of the wing where it is in free undisturbed air.
Dynons location they depict for location has it close to lead edge on
bottom where air has yet to be very disturbed at high AOAs. On the Europa
factory position it is aft of the spar, at very high angle of attacks
there will be more pressure compared to free air in front of lead edge and
not only that the air will become deflected and begin to follow the bottom
of the wing to make AOA not as accurate as out front.
Bud likes the idea of installing a very long removable AOA so it remains
in tact on ground and gives accurate info in the air.
Sometimes no matter how smart you are, your prediction that something will
not work can be wrong. I for one am willing to give the factory position
for AOA a try knowing full well that at best it may only spew out some
useful information, not work totally accurate. If that is the case then I
thought it a worthy cause to plan for it not working when the tops of my
wings are still off.
Yes it can be moved more forward with top of wings on, just much more of a
job.
Please let us know your results.
Ron P.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Installation |
Bruno, I am with you on the pitot/static as fitted to the XS. It has served
me well and gives speeds that correlate completely with GPS speeds, and
actual time over a course, and with stall speeds. On top of that the
aerodynamics and the flight testing and development were the work of Don
Dykin, who is as smart as they come in the aerodynamics world (if you hadn't
heard before he was the Chief Aerodynamicist at British Aerospace and
responsible for the design of the wings of the Airbus series).
Regards, David
----- Original Message -----
From: "UVTReith" <uvtreith@t-online.de>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Pneumatic Installation
Dear David, dear Ron,
First of all many thanks for your advices and input.
So my point was to use the Europa static tube on the pitot/static device as
AOA signal for the Dynon.
Ron, are you sure that the position of the Europa device is too far back?
Hundreds of Europas are flying with this system very successfully.
As my plane is completely ready, it makes no sense to cut another hole into
the wings. For the Dynon I will now open and clean the static tube, get a
sleeve over that and will extend with a 45 bended tube to a (better?)
position. Flight tests later will show the best lengths.
Best Regard,
Bruno
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von rparigoris
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Juli 2008 00:03
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: Re: AW: Pneumatic Installation
Hi Bruno
If you bend down static port after you remove bullet so it is at a 45 degree
down angle there is a chance you may get some usable AOA information when at
Factory position. As mentioned in my album it is too far aft for optimal
performance because the true airflow will have become distorted because too
much wing is upwind (in other words airflow will begin to follow the bottom
of the wing).
If it is unacceptable you can move both the static and AOA (old pitot) to
position shown in my album. BTW that position was carefully chosen and
allows for pitot/ AOA tubes to somewhat be protected when wing is on Factory
trailer.
Ron P.
BTW be very careful grabbing the tube for bending, you can easily crush it.
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Airplane building tips instructional videos |
For those of you who are not EAA members, or don't get E-Mail from them,
they have a instructional video section on airplane building. They have
been adding to often.
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html?videoId=1674033145
There are 4 tabs, General, Sheet Metal, Tube and Fabric, and Wood. Make
sure you scroll down using the arrows on the right side to see entire
selection.
Ron Parigoris
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Installation |
Just to add: The Dynon 180 on my XS has the static and pitot connected in parallel
with analog backup instruments. I tried to use the stall warner input as AoA
input for the Dynon and can report that it doesn't work. The AA system in the
Dyson expects more pressure at higher angle of attacks, and of course the stall
warner tube produces a lower pressure at higher angle of attacks. I agree
with the opinion that the Dynon AoA tube is awfully big and heavy. Must look
great on a 747. There is a good chance the tube bending system will work.
A second thought is that i am not really interested in AoA, because especially
in the Europa, the AoA varies greatly between flyable speeds between 50 and 150
knots. It's the stall that i am interested in, and that has little to do with
the Angle of Attack. But please correct me if this makes no sense!
Regards
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Installation |
Hi Josok
"It's the stall that i am interested in, and that has little to do with the Angle
of Attack. But please correct me if this makes no sense!"
I am sure you understand the point it is that you are trying to make, but AOA has
everything to do with the stall, so please elaborate as statement above makes
no sense to me.
I think perhaps point it is you are trying to make is Airspeed has little to do
with stall??
Dynon AOA will show you surplus of lift that is available before stall will occur
at a given weight, and airspeed and angle of attack.
If all things are equal:
A low all up weight will be flying at less AOA than heavily loaded thus more surplus
lift on lower weight
Holding altitude with steeper bank angle will rapidly eat into your excess lift
available
The greater the airspeed the more excess lift you will have available
In other words you can't use your airspeed to determine very easily when you will
stall, AOA can easily tell you when you will stall.
I fly the same 48" flying wing model between all up weight of 8oz in pure glider
form, to a 3/4 horse power 100mph plus 80oz monster. It is the same wing and
the same airfoil. Guess what, they stall at the same AOA! True straight and level
the 8 oz glider may stall at 4MPH, and the 80 oz monster in a 75 degree bank
angle holding altitude may stall at 50 mph, but it is the same angle of attack
that both will stall. Thus even if I had airspeed available, unless I did
complex calculations I would not know when stall would happen. All that said
if you fly plane with bottom of wing at less than about a 18 degree angle of
attack as compared to the horizon I will not stall.
Dynon AOA that is fully functional will tell you no matter what your airspeed is,
what your all up weight is, what your bank angle is when you are getting close
to stalling. I know I can fly a plane without such information, butAOA can
be a useful tool.
Go ahead and overshoot base to final turn in a fully loaded Europa at a high density
altitude with most aft allowable CG, and bank and crank low to the ground
with increasing tailwind the lower you go (bad since your ground speed will
be increasing and will increase your overshoot), get that plane to a 60 degree
bank, just keep plenty of surplus lift being shown on the AOA and you are good
to keep that wing flying. If you have plenty of surplus lift you could even
be flying sloppy and skidding and you will not snap upside down. That may mean
dropping the nose a lot lower than you are used to and having a much higher groundspeed
than you are used to, but that's OK because you will not stall where
you don't have time to recover, just drop nose and add power and increase groundspeed
till AOA is happy. If flying at a safe AOA will not work and allow a
landing just go around.
Lower powered jets some private owners fly use AOA extensively.
Ron Parigoris
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|