Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:48 AM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (Christoph Both)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (Paul McAllister)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (John & Paddy Wigney)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: No Slipper Clutch? (Jeff B)
5. 07:48 AM - No Slipper Clutch? (Justin Kennedy)
6. 08:53 AM - Re: Ethanol and sight tubes. (ALAN YERLY)
7. 09:40 AM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (Terry Seaver (terrys))
8. 11:13 AM - Mode S transponders (nigel charles)
9. 12:04 PM - Re: Maximum flap extension? (zwakie)
10. 12:13 PM - Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (zwakie)
11. 12:53 PM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (Gilles Thesee)
12. 01:18 PM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
13. 01:21 PM - Re: Mode S transponders (Paul McAllister)
14. 01:35 PM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (TIMOTHY PHILIP WARD)
15. 01:35 PM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (Gilles Thesee)
16. 01:56 PM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
17. 02:04 PM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (tony.bale@virgin.net)
18. 02:21 PM - Re: Mode S transponders (Hans Siedsma)
19. 02:44 PM - Re: Mode S transponders (Rowland Carson)
20. 05:14 PM - Re: Mode S transponders (Christoph Both)
21. 05:20 PM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (Tim Ward)
22. 06:21 PM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (europaman)
23. 06:53 PM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (Paul Boulet)
24. 06:56 PM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (Troy Maynor)
25. 10:59 PM - Re: Mode S transponders (nigel charles)
Message 1
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| Subject: | No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi,
Not yet running 912S. The only way to use the old engine mount is to
exchange the heavy duty starter for the normal one. Fact is even with
that there are only a few millimetres tolerance left before even the
normal starter would contact the engine mount frame.
The problem is the very high prop momentum with the standard 3 blade
prop which the starter needs to initially overcome, on top of higher
compression of the 912S. With this in mind I am mounting a 2 blade
Woodcomp 3000 Scimitar which is much lighter. It weights only 8kg
complete with spinner compared to 12kg for the 3 blade or even more with
the Airmaster which will require you to move the battery to the back,
with all associated extra weight penalties...
I will see how this all works out but I am confident this is a great
combination.
Christoph Both
#223 Conversion TRI gear
Wolfville, Nova Scotia
Canada
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Troy Maynor
Sent: Thu 8/21/2008 11:33 PM
Subject: Europa-List: No Slipper Clutch?
Hi All,
Just a question to all for a start : How many are running the 912S
without
the heavy duty starter but with the slipper clutch?
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Seats, engine install underway, some wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi All,
If you are considering using a 912S without the heavy duty clutch then
another approach would be to consider using the "SoftStart" module
which alters the timing for the starting phase.
Take a look at:
http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=735
Regards, Paul
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi Troy,
I have the original starter and it has never given me any trouble in
getting a reliable start. I have no idea if I have the slipper clutch -
this has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Does anyone know how I
determine this?
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Subject: Europa-List: No Slipper Clutch?
Hi All,
Just a question to all for a start : How many are running the 912S without the
heavy duty starter but with the slipper clutch?
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Seats, engine install underway, some wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: No Slipper Clutch? |
John,
Burried in your service manual, there is a check for the slipper clutch.
It involves locking the crankshaft and moving the prop back and forth.
If your prop moves several degrees, you have a slipper clutch...
Jeff
John & Paddy Wigney wrote:
> <johnwigney@alltel.net>
>
> Hi Troy,
>
> I have the original starter and it has never given me any trouble in
> getting a reliable start. I have no idea if I have the slipper clutch -
> this has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Does anyone know how I
> determine this?
>
> Cheers, John
> N262WF, mono XS, 912S
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE
> From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
> Subject: Europa-List: No Slipper Clutch?
> Hi All,
> Just a question to all for a start : How many are running the 912S
> without the heavy duty starter but with the slipper clutch?
> Troy Maynor
> N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
> Left to finish:
> Seats, engine install underway, some wiring.
> Weaverville, NC USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 8/22/2008 6:48 AM
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi,
Yup, I have a 912S with slipper clutch and small starter. It has never
failed and provides plenty of crank.
However I firmly believe this is because I use an Odyssey PC545 battery
which has an amazing performance.
Justin Kennedy
G-ZTED
Europa Mono Classic
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol and sight tubes. |
Jeff,
You have hit the nail on the head. I'm looking to make a fitting using
tempered glass, but am still a little shy about producing one until
fully tested.
Just like my tow bar, it took three different designs to finally get it
right. I figure the same problem with the protected glass sight tube
idea and the final cowl changes.
So many ideas, and so little time.
See you at Rough River if you don't get drowned out by Fay.
Bud
Custom Flight Creations
www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/>
(813) 653-4989
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff B<mailto:topglock@cox.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ethanol and sight tubes.
<topglock@cox.net<mailto:topglock@cox.net>>
I've used ethanol to help dye certain clear plastics. It definitely
has
a penetrating effect. Looks like a shielded glass may be the way to
go,
for sight gauges...
Jeff
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Sorry I couldn't weigh in on the site lately, too much work and too
> little time.
>
> You can go to my website at customflightcreations.com and select
> accessories to see how I do my sight tubes. They all work very well
> between the seats.
>
> Back to ethanol... I finished a test on a 10% ethanol 92 octane
fuel
> and its effects on our polyurethane tubing, and acrylic plexiglass.
>
> To my surprise, the ethanol fuel really made the polyurethane yellow
> faster. After prolonged exposure, the urethane did not seem to
> deteriorate at all. However, within two hours, the yellowing of the
> tube became pronounced. I frankly looked pretty dark after a week,
but
> it was readable and held up well.
>
> I then tested it with a new rigid acrylic tube, which by the tech
data,
> was supposed to be safe for use with gasoline, and fair with pure
> ethanol. After only two hours, the acrylic began to break down in
the
> 10% fuel mixture. By the end of 8 hours it began become slightly
opaque
> and slimy where the fuel contacted. I then cut a piece of the
tubing
> and submerged it completely. Sure enough, the tube outer part
became a
> slimy mess, but it was still rigid, although un-useable. So please
> pretest your acrylics.
>
> Redux (Epibond or Araldite 420 A/B) held up pretty well. The glue
had
> cured for only 12 hours and was submersed. No significant change
> noticed. Pro Seal was OK but the manufacturer has only tested it to
10%
> ethanol in fuel, and I noticed a slightly slimy surface, but it
still
> stuck very well with prolonged exposure.
>
> My lessons learned are to make the urethane sight tube easy to
replace
> on the annual inspection and stick with the urethane tube. The FAA
> requires some sort of visual fuel check before flight, so it works
for
> me. Plumbed the way I show it in my website, allows it to be useful
in
> flight also. Electronically, I use the capacitance fuel probes for
fuel
> measuring with a Mitchell or similar gauge and calibrate the probe
at
> 0-5-10-and 15 gallons to correspond to the 1/4,1/2,3/4, full,
points. I
> must admit, that changing the face of the gauge is the way to go. I
do
> it in shop and should have Mitchell change the face on a custom
order.
> They will do it for a price.
>
>
> Thought this may be of interest.
>
> Bud Yerly
> Custom Flight Creations
> (813) 653-4989
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 7
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| Subject: | No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi Troy,
We bought our 912S not long after they became available, and although we
wanted the slipper clutch we were told none was available for the 912S.
We had terrible starting problems for years, with the engine going into
sub-idle harmonic running that literally shook things off the engine.
We bought the heavy duty starter, which made little improvement. We
then heard the factory was only selling the 912S with slipper clutches
now, so we upgraded our gearbox with one. That cured our starting
problems, we are not sure why, but it made a dramatic difference.
I know this is actually the opposite of your question, but I thought it
worth mentioning.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Troy Maynor
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Europa-List: No Slipper Clutch?
Hi All,
Just a question to all for a start : How many are running the 912S
without the heavy duty starter but with the slipper clutch?
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Seats, engine install underway, some wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
Message 8
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| Subject: | Mode S transponders |
Although Mode S is not yet mandatory in the UK it is already making its
presence felt in Europe making touring abroad more difficult. As I will
be doing an update on my panel this winter I have started looking at the
options for replacing my Garmin 320 transponder. The logical choice
would initially appear to be the Garmin 328. However having checked on
the specifications the 328 is too deep for the central avionics stack on
the Europa and weighs nearly twice as much as the 320. As my panel is
optimised for a 6.25" wide avionics stack the only transponder that
seems to fit the bill looks to be the Trig TT31 transponder. Has anyone
else looked into this yet? If so what conclusions have you come to?
Regards
Nigel Charles
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Maximum flap extension? |
Hey Frans, surprised to see you're working on an Europa. We have to talk Europa
when we meet!
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 10
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| Subject: | Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
I'm new here, so let me first introduce myself: my name is Marcel, 45 years of
age and from The Netherlands. I am a private pilot license holder since a couple
of years, currently about 125 hours in my logbook and thinking about buying
my own plane. I have decided to go for an Europa (I guess you all the know the
reasons why :wink: ), and instead of building one myself I will be looking
for one that is for sale.
During my search on the web I also visited the Air Accidents Investigations Branch
website, and what kind of struck me there is the high number of incident-reports
involving Europa's, even though the trend seems to be fewer incidents occur
over time. I have read most of these reports (don't ask!) to learn more about
Europa's and what to expect from this type of aircraft.
One picture that evolved from these reports was that a relative high number of
incidents occurred with the mono-gear type.
Besides incidents with technical causes, a significant number of mono-gear incidents
were caused by pilot error: not lowering and locking the gear or not being
able to properly deal with cross- and/or gusty winds seem to be the two most
common causes.
What surprised me was that of these pilot-error incidents occurred with experienced
pilots on the controls (experienced as in: lots and lots of hours, quite
often also with hundreds of hours on type).
Obviously incidents also occurred on the nose wheel types due to cross- and/or
gusty winds, but the number of incidents were significantly lower.
Well, I guess you will know where this is leading: I will have to decide between
a mono-gear or nose-wheel Europa, and would like to find out if flying the mono-gear
is that much more difficult as compared to the nose-wheel. I also would
like to get some idea of how a nose-wheel Europa compares to f.i. Cessna's
152/172 in terms of handling it in take-off and landings.
All information that you can provide to help me in my decision-making process is
highly appreciated!
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
zwakie a crit :
> Well, I guess you will know where this is leading: I will have to decide between
a mono-gear or nose-wheel Europa, and would like to find out if flying the
mono-gear is that much more difficult as compared to the nose-wheel. I also would
like to get some idea of how a nose-wheel Europa compares to f.i. Cessna's
152/172 in terms of handling it in take-off and landings.
>
> All information that you can provide to help me in my decision-making process
is highly appreciated!
>
>
Zwakie,
The only thing we can take for granted is that nosewheel aircraft are
usueally easier on takeoff and landing than their taildragger
counterparts, especially in a strong crosswind.
I was never offered the opportunity to ride or fly a Europa, but my
answer to such a question would be "Arrange to fly both models in order
to get an opinion by yourself".
I'm sure you'll have no difficuly finding a Europa pilot willing to take
you on board to get a feeling of his dreambird.
If you are reasonably well trained and proficient, a reasonably
experienced pilot will have no problems leaving you the control for the
takeoff and landing in a well behaved airplane.
If he insists on keeping the controls, then ask another pilot in another
airplane ;-)
But don't launch in a project before having flown the model you are
considering. Or at the very least, have a competent and reliable pilot
friend fly it for you.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
<<nosewheel......easier on takeoff and landing than their taildragger
counterparts, especially in a strong crosswind.>>
Not necessarily.
The tri gear can be steered only by its rudder and mainwheel brakes. The
fixed taildragger can elect also to keep its tailwheel on the ground for
additional steering effect, until the rudder is fully effective.
At which point the fixed taildragger can raise its tail to a position that
keeps the mainwheels firmly on the ground; whereas a tri gear would
wheelbarrow if this is to be tried.
The crosswind limitation of the TD is probably therefore higher than the
trigear, for a given level of pilot familiarity.
Duncan Mcf.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose?
>
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> zwakie a crit :
>> Well, I guess you will know where this is leading: I will have to decide
>> between a mono-gear or nose-wheel Europa, and would like to find out if
>> flying the mono-gear is that much more difficult as compared to the
>> nose-wheel. I also would like to get some idea of how a nose-wheel Europa
>> compares to f.i. Cessna's 152/172 in terms of handling it in take-off and
>> landings.
>>
>> All information that you can provide to help me in my decision-making
>> process is highly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
> Zwakie,
>
> The only thing we can take for granted is that nosewheel aircraft are
> usueally easier on takeoff and landing than their taildragger
> counterparts, especially in a strong crosswind.
> I was never offered the opportunity to ride or fly a Europa, but my answer
> to such a question would be "Arrange to fly both models in order to get an
> opinion by yourself".
> I'm sure you'll have no difficuly finding a Europa pilot willing to take
> you on board to get a feeling of his dreambird.
>
> If you are reasonably well trained and proficient, a reasonably
> experienced pilot will have no problems leaving you the control for the
> takeoff and landing in a well behaved airplane.
> If he insists on keeping the controls, then ask another pilot in another
> airplane ;-)
>
> But don't launch in a project before having flown the model you are
> considering. Or at the very least, have a competent and reliable pilot
> friend fly it for you.
>
> Best regards,
> --
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Mode S transponders |
Hi Nigel,
For me the big attraction would be to be able to display traffic. Do
you happen to know if the Trig TT31 has a data output for traffic that
can me interfaced into Garmin 430's or compatible device ?
I just took a look on line and the Trig TT31 looks like a nice compact unit.
Regards, Paul
Message 14
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| Subject: | No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi Troy,
Yes, I am. Why?
Cheers,
Tim
> Hi All,
> Just a question to all for a start : How many are
> running the 912S
> without the heavy duty starter but with the slipper
> clutch?
>
>
> Troy Maynor
> N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
> Left to finish:
> Seats, engine install underway, some wiring.
> Weaverville, NC USA
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
Christchurch.
New Zealand
Ph. 64 33515166
MOB 0210640221
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
Duncan & Ami McFadyean a crit :
> Not necessarily.
> The tri gear can be steered only by its rudder and mainwheel brakes.
> The fixed taildragger can elect also to keep its tailwheel on the
> ground for additional steering effect, until the rudder is fully
> effective.
> At which point the fixed taildragger can raise its tail to a position
> that keeps the mainwheels firmly on the ground; whereas a tri gear
> would wheelbarrow if this is to be tried.
> The crosswind limitation of the TD is probably therefore higher than
> the trigear, for a given level of pilot familiarity.
Duncan,
I suppose you are talking about Europa models, which I never flew.
Nevertheless, I recently had to cancel flights on a taildragger in a
27/G40 kt wind whereas I had no problems taxiing with the nosewheel
counterpart.
Also, on 9 th of August, while taking off Duxford with only circa 18/20
kt from the left, the wind was being strongly felt while it usually
poses no problem in a nosewheel aircraftt.
BTW, how come we were the *only* visiting airplane on this "taildragger
and Robin" bonus day ? I was hoping to see some British Europas.
Maybe is it the fact that we had to cross the Channel on our way back at
600 ft in rain ?
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
Zwakie-
The other thing you need to keep in mind is insurance and resale of the airplane.
Both will be much more difficult for the monowheel. All of us have had to
make the choice. I have a bunch of monowheel time in gliders but the Europa
is quite a bit different than them. I went the trigear route, which I think was
the right way to go for me.
Jim Puglise A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "zwakie" <marcel@zwakie.com>
>
> I'm new here, so let me first introduce myself: my name is Marcel, 45 years of
> age and from The Netherlands. I am a private pilot license holder since a couple
> of years, currently about 125 hours in my logbook and thinking about buying my
> own plane. I have decided to go for an Europa (I guess you all the know the
> reasons why :wink: ), and instead of building one myself I will be looking for
> one that is for sale.
>
> During my search on the web I also visited the Air Accidents Investigations
> Branch website, and what kind of struck me there is the high number of
> incident-reports involving Europa's, even though the trend seems to be fewer
> incidents occur over time. I have read most of these reports (don't ask!) to
> learn more about Europa's and what to expect from this type of aircraft.
>
> One picture that evolved from these reports was that a relative high number of
> incidents occurred with the mono-gear type.
>
> Besides incidents with technical causes, a significant number of mono-gear
> incidents were caused by pilot error: not lowering and locking the gear or not
> being able to properly deal with cross- and/or gusty winds seem to be the two
> most common causes.
>
> What surprised me was that of these pilot-error incidents occurred with
> experienced pilots on the controls (experienced as in: lots and lots of hours,
> quite often also with hundreds of hours on type).
>
> Obviously incidents also occurred on the nose wheel types due to cross- and/or
> gusty winds, but the number of incidents were significantly lower.
>
> Well, I guess you will know where this is leading: I will have to decide between
> a mono-gear or nose-wheel Europa, and would like to find out if flying the
> mono-gear is that much more difficult as compared to the nose-wheel. I also
> would like to get some idea of how a nose-wheel Europa compares to f.i. Cessna's
> 152/172 in terms of handling it in take-off and landings.
>
> All information that you can provide to help me in my decision-making process
is
> highly appreciated!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Zwakie-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The other thing you need to keep in mind is insurance and resale of the airplane.
Both will be much more difficult for the monowheel. All of
us have had to make the choice. I have a bunch of monowheel time in gliders
but the Europa is quite a bit different than them. I went the trigear
route, which I think was the right way to go for me.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise A-283</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "zwakie" <marcel@zwakie.com>
<BR><BR>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "zwakie"
<MARCEL@ZWAKIE.COM><BR>> <BR>> I'm new here, so let me first introduce
myself: my name is Marcel, 45 years of <BR>> age and from The Netherlands.
I am a private pilot license holder since a couple <BR>> of years, currently
about 125 hours in my logbook and thinking about buying my <BR>> own
plane. I have decided to go for an Europa (I guess you all the know the <BR>>
reasons why :wink: ), and instead of building one myself I will be looking
for <BR>> one that is for sale. <BR>> <BR>> During my search on the web
I also visited the Air Accidents Investigations <BR>> Branch website, and
what kind of struck me there is the high number of <BR>> incident-reports
involving Europa's, even though the trend seems to b
e fewe
r <BR>> incidents occur over time. I have read most of these reports (don't
ask!) to <BR>> learn more about Europa's and what to expect from this type
of aircraft. <BR>> <BR>> One picture that evolved from these reports was
that a relative high number of <BR>> incidents occurred with the mono-gear
type. <BR>> <BR>> Besides incidents with technical causes, a significant
number of mono-gear <BR>> incidents were caused by pilot error: not lowering
and locking the gear or not <BR>> being able to properly deal with cross-
and/or gusty winds seem to be the two <BR>> most common causes. <BR>>
<BR>> What surprised me was that of these pilot-error incidents occurred with
<BR>> experienced pilots on the controls (experienced as in: lots and lots
of hours, <BR>> quite often also with hundreds of hours on type). <BR>>
<BR>> Obviously incidents also occurred on the nose wheel types due to
cross- and/or <BR>> gusty winds, but the number of
incid
Searc
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
Marcel, welcome to the forum. I won't go on too much about the Europa other
than to say it is fun to fly, economical and fairly fast - you will
probably no most of this already. I fly a monowheel and would advise your
findings about crosswinds are correct, the mono can be tricky and I am told
by pilot's far more experienced than me, that they are quite different to
fly than other taildraggers.
I would strongly advise that if someone allows you to take off a mono
without an instructor or well experienced pilot on type with you, you tread
carefully.
Having said that, in normal conditions and wind direction it is quite
docile, but must hold your complete concentration at all times.
I would not consider a trike or conventional set up but that is simply my
choice, I like retractables. And if you do decide to take the plunge you
will love the flying, and I strongly recommend a VP prop - I sit behind an
Airmaster and think it's the best addition you can fit.
Interestingly at our strip we have a Tecnam Sierra, Sport Cruiser and RV9.
I have flown in formation with the Tecnam and can confirm it appears
significantly slower, The Sport Cruiser is yet to start its test programme
but I suspect will perform the same, and the RV9 is pretty much untouchable
!
Hope this helps, good luck !
Tony.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: zwakie marcel@zwakie.com
Subject: Europa-List: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose?
I'm new here, so let me first introduce myself: my name is Marcel, 45 years
of age and from The Netherlands. I am a private pilot license holder since
a couple of years, currently about 125 hours in my logbook and thinking
about buying my own plane. I have decided to go for an Europa (I guess you
all the know the reasons why :wink: ), and instead of building one myself
I will be looking for one that is for sale.
During my search on the web I also visited the Air Accidents Investigations
Branch website, and what kind of struck me there is the high number of
incident-reports involving Europa's, even though the trend seems to be
fewer incidents occur over time. I have read most of these reports (don't
ask!) to learn more about Europa's and what to expect from this type of
aircraft.
One picture that evolved from these reports was that a relative high number
of incidents occurred with the mono-gear type.
Besides incidents with technical causes, a significant number of mono-gear
incidents were caused by pilot error: not lowering and locking the gear or
not being able to properly deal with cross- and/or gusty winds seem to be
the two most common causes.
What surprised me was that of these pilot-error incidents occurred with
experienced pilots on the controls (experienced as in: lots and lots of
hours, quite often also with hundreds of hours on type).
Obviously incidents also occurred on the nose wheel types due to cross-
and/or gusty winds, but the number of incidents were significantly lower.
Well, I guess you will know where this is leading: I will have to decide
between a mono-gear or nose-wheel Europa, and would like to find out if
flying the mono-gear is that much more difficult as compared to the
nose-wheel. I also would like to get some idea of how a nose-wheel Europa
compares to f.i. Cessna's 152/172 in terms of handling it in take-off and
landings.
All information that you can provide to help me in my decision-making
process is highly appreciated!
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Mode S transponders |
I have installed a Trig TT31 in the Europa. Works perfect en easy to handle.
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]Namens nigel charles
Verzonden: vrijdag 22 augustus 2008 20:12
Aan: europa-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Europa-List: Mode S transponders
Urgentie: Laag
Although Mode S is not yet mandatory in the UK it is already making its
presence felt in Europe making touring abroad more difficult. As I will be
doing an update on my panel this winter I have started looking at the
options for replacing my Garmin 320 transponder. The logical choice would
initially appear to be the Garmin 328. However having checked on the
specifications the 328 is too deep for the central avionics stack on the
Europa and weighs nearly twice as much as the 320. As my panel is optimised
for a 6.25" wide avionics stack the only transponder that seems to fit the
bill looks to be the Trig TT31 transponder. Has anyone else looked into this
yet? If so what conclusions have you come to?
Regards
Nigel Charles
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Mode S transponders |
At 2008-08-22 19:11 +0100 nigel charles wrote:
>As my panel is optimised for a 6.25" wide
>avionics stack the only transponder that seems
>to fit the bill looks to be the Trig TT31
>transponder. Has anyone else looked into this
>yet? If so what conclusions have you come to?
Nigel - my panel is still in a "soft" state so I
don't have your contsraints, but of those I've
looked at under =A32k I am leaning towards the
=46ilser TRT800 which has the advantage of a
built-in alticoder. Both the Becker
BXP6401-2-(01) and the TRIG TT31 need an external
coder which adds to the cost. The Becker is the
shortest at 205mm and the Filser the lightest at
600g - the Trig is 1350g but puts out 240W
compared to only 100W for the Filser.
Incidentally the Garmin GTX328 while too long for
a Europa panel at 286mm also lacks the extended
squitter needed for ADS-B, so it's theoretically
less future-proof than the others. The Filser is
the only one that provides an active/standby
squawk display like the typical comms radio, and
that's about the only useful feature I see
missing from the TRIG. Filser also do a TRT800A
which seems to be much the same unit as the
TRT800, re-packaged 6.25" wide, so you might
consider that one.
As an electronic engineer, the impresssion I have
of the TRIG and the people who developed it is
that it is well designed and should be a solid
performer, but I have no hard facts or direct
experience to back that up.
I attach a PDF of my comparison sheet - at the
time I prepared it I wasn't able to get anything
about the Becker BXP6403 apart from a new-product
annoucement.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1080 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Mode S transponders |
Hi,
The MicroAir Transponder is very nice and it fits perfectly with the
round 2 1/4 inch 760 COM. Nice pair. Each weights about 500 grams and
easily fits the Europa stack. That is several pounds saved over some of
the square boxes. They use very little power so you can use them in
glide mode as well.
Christoph Both
#223
Wolfville, NS
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Rowland Carson
Sent: Fri 8/22/2008 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mode S transponders
At 2008-08-22 19:11 +0100 nigel charles wrote:
>As my panel is optimised for a 6.25" wide
>avionics stack the only transponder that seems
>to fit the bill looks to be the Trig TT31
>transponder. Has anyone else looked into this
>yet? If so what conclusions have you come to?
Nigel - my panel is still in a "soft" state so I
don't have your contsraints, but of those I've
looked at under =A32k I am leaning towards the
Filser TRT800 which has the advantage of a
built-in alticoder. Both the Becker
BXP6401-2-(01) and the TRIG TT31 need an external
coder which adds to the cost. The Becker is the
shortest at 205mm and the Filser the lightest at
600g - the Trig is 1350g but puts out 240W
compared to only 100W for the Filser.
Incidentally the Garmin GTX328 while too long for
a Europa panel at 286mm also lacks the extended
squitter needed for ADS-B, so it's theoretically
less future-proof than the others. The Filser is
the only one that provides an active/standby
squawk display like the typical comms radio, and
that's about the only useful feature I see
missing from the TRIG. Filser also do a TRT800A
which seems to be much the same unit as the
TRT800, re-packaged 6.25" wide, so you might
consider that one.
As an electronic engineer, the impresssion I have
of the TRIG and the people who developed it is
that it is well designed and should be a solid
performer, but I have no hard facts or direct
experience to back that up.
I attach a PDF of my comparison sheet - at the
time I prepared it I wasn't able to get anything
about the Becker BXP6403 apart from a new-product
annoucement.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1080 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi Troy,
Yes I am. Only problem is the cold winter starts down
here in the 'cold antarctic blasts' we get. One needs
a combination of a good starter, good battery and good
technique. In particular the last two. The original
starter has not been the problem as recently I have
perfected a better technique and have had no
problems.Slipper clutch is well worth it, from
experience!!
Cheers,
Tim
--- Troy Maynor <wingnut54@charter.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
> Just a question to all for a start : How many are
> running the 912S without
> the heavy duty starter but with the slipper clutch?
>
>
> Troy Maynor
> N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
> Left to finish:
> Seats, engine install underway, some wiring.
> Weaverville, NC USA
>
>
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
Christchurch.
New Zealand
Ph. 64 33515166
MOB 0210640221
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: No Slipper Clutch? |
All,
The reason I asked is this. I felt I needed it to protect my engine in the event
of a prop strike, God forbid. So in talking to Lockwood they quoted me a price,
told me how to get it off etc, never mentioning any downside to it, even though
I said I could not fit the HD starter. A few days later, speaking to the
same guy, to get the shipping address, he said if I did not put the HD starter
on too, starting would be very difficult and advised against it. This is impossible
with the classic FWF. This was after I already had the gearbox off and
boxed up to ship. I am seeking advise from the folks that know, you guys. I prefer
the classic cowling for many reasons, mainly the money and time invested,
it's painted, and I want to fly!!!! I may go ahead and send it in a few days
depending on what I learn. Thanks for the helping hands, or wings, to get me
into the air.
Troy Maynor
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
Hi All;
I originally built my XS as a mono wheel.- I was very unhappy with the co
nfiguration and converted it to Tri Gear which I love.- I take off and la
nd much more like a Mooney than a Cessna- with full flaps on a Cessna you s
imply point the nose higher and higher while with a Mooney (and my XS) I ho
ld a configuartion and let the speed bleed off.
-
And in case any of you don't know, my tri gear is for sale- email me for de
tails off list if interested
-
Paul Boulet, Malibu, California- N914PB
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, jimpuglise@comcast.net <jimpuglise@comcast.net> wrote:
From: jimpuglise@comcast.net <jimpuglise@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose?
Zwakie-
-
The other thing you need to keep in mind is insurance and resale of the air
plane.- Both will be much more difficult for the monowheel.- All of us
have had to make the choice.- I have a bunch of monowheel time in gliders
but the Europa is quite a bit different than them.- I went the trigear r
oute, which I think was the right way to go for me.
-
Jim Puglise A-283
-
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "zwakie" <marcel@zwakie.com>
>
> I'm new here, so let me first introduce myself: my name is Marcel, 45 yea
rs of
> age and from The Netherlands. I am a private pilot license holder since a
couple
> of years, currently about 125 hours in my logbook and thinking about buyi
ng my
> own plane. I have decided to go for an Europa (I guess you all the know t
he
> reasons why :wink: ), and instead of building one myself I will be lookin
g for
> one that is for sale.
>
> During my search on the web I also visited the Air Accidents Investigatio
ns
> Branch website, and what kind of struck me there is the high number of
> incident-reports involving Europa's, even though the trend seems to b e f
ewe r
> incidents occur over time. I have read most of these reports (don't ask!)
to
> learn more about Europa's and what to expect from this type of aircraft.
>
> One picture that evolved from these reports was that a relative high numb
er of
> incidents occurred with the mono-gear type.
>
> Besides incidents with technical causes, a significant number of mono-gea
r
> incidents were caused by pilot error: not lowering and locking the gear o
r not
> being able to properly deal with cross- and/or gusty winds seem to be the
two
> most common causes.
>
> What surprised me was that of these pilot-error incidents occurred with
> experienced pilots on the controls (experienced as in: lots and lots of h
ours,
> quite often also with hundreds of hours on type).
>
> Obviously incidents also occurred on the nose wheel types due to cross- a
nd/or
> gusty winds, but the number of incid Searc
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: No Slipper Clutch? |
John and all,
Found this on Kodiac's website refering to the gearboxes with or without
slipper clutches. FWIW. So let me know what you find out. I'm trying to
justify whether or not to spend $1,200.00 to get Lockwood to install one.
Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: John & Paddy Wigney [mailto:johnwigney@alltel.net]
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: No Slipper Clutch?
Hi Troy,
I have the original starter and it has never given me any trouble in
getting a reliable start. I have no idea if I have the slipper clutch -
this has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Does anyone know how I
determine this?
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Subject: Europa-List: No Slipper Clutch?
Hi All,
Just a question to all for a start : How many are running the 912S without
the heavy duty starter but with the slipper clutch?
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Seats, engine install underway, some wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
Message 25
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| Subject: | Mode S transponders |
>For me the big attraction would be to be able to display traffic. Do
you happen to know if the Trig TT31 has a data output for traffic that
can me interfaced into Garmin 430's or compatible device ?<
I have no knowledge on this. Best to contact Trig direct.
Nigel
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