Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:50 AM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (Brian Davies)
2. 01:59 AM - Re: Mode S transponders (Rowland Carson)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: No Slipper Clutch? (Christoph Both)
4. 08:40 AM - Fw: No Slipper Clutch? (David Buckley)
5. 08:40 AM - Fw: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (David Buckley)
6. 10:11 AM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (zwakie)
7. 11:33 AM - Mode S transponders (Remi Guerner)
8. 02:33 PM - Re: Mode S transponders (nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk)
9. 03:20 PM - Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? (steve v)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
Hi Marcel,
You have touched on a hotly debated subject - Mono versus Trigear.
I originally built a Monowheel Europa with a Rotax 912S and Airmaster
variable pitch prop. It was a very capable aircraft, enormous fun to fly
and no real problem taking off and landing on grass. I found it quite
challenging to land in a crosswind on tarmac and eventually decided to
convert the aircraft to Trigear configuration. It is now a much more
forgiving aircraft to land in crosswinds but it does not enjoy bumpy grass
so much. If the aircraft has been modified to fit steel nosewheel springs
instead of the original bungee cords it can get quite "bouncy" if not
handled carefully on bumpy surfaces.
As with most aircraft types, once you have developed your technique none of
these things are a real problem.
Most Trigear are about 16Kg heavier than an equivalent Monowheel and tend to
use slightly more fuel. The difference only really shows up on long
distance touring were the Mono has the edge on performance. If you intend
to do long distance touring and want to exploit the full capacity of the
aircraft in terms of full fuel, two people and ample baggage, look for a
Europa that is no more than 400Kg empty weight.
>From a pure enjoyment angle I found the Mono much more challenging and much
more fun. As a Trigear it gives me a much more relaxed flying experience
and more enjoyable touring.
There are a number of high quality Europas fore sale at the moment so this
is a good time to buy. I suggest you join the Europa Club and get access to
a great deal of additional help and information. Go to their website
www.europaclub.org.uk and follow the links to join online.
Best regards
Brian Davies, Membership Sec.
The Europa Club
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie
Sent: 22 August 2008 20:12
Subject: Europa-List: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose?
I'm new here, so let me first introduce myself: my name is Marcel, 45 years
of age and from The Netherlands. I am a private pilot license holder since a
couple of years, currently about 125 hours in my logbook and thinking about
buying my own plane. I have decided to go for an Europa (I guess you all the
know the reasons why :wink: ), and instead of building one myself I will be
looking for one that is for sale.
During my search on the web I also visited the Air Accidents Investigations
Branch website, and what kind of struck me there is the high number of
incident-reports involving Europa's, even though the trend seems to be fewer
incidents occur over time. I have read most of these reports (don't ask!) to
learn more about Europa's and what to expect from this type of aircraft.
One picture that evolved from these reports was that a relative high number
of incidents occurred with the mono-gear type.
Besides incidents with technical causes, a significant number of mono-gear
incidents were caused by pilot error: not lowering and locking the gear or
not being able to properly deal with cross- and/or gusty winds seem to be
the two most common causes.
What surprised me was that of these pilot-error incidents occurred with
experienced pilots on the controls (experienced as in: lots and lots of
hours, quite often also with hundreds of hours on type).
Obviously incidents also occurred on the nose wheel types due to cross-
and/or gusty winds, but the number of incidents were significantly lower.
Well, I guess you will know where this is leading: I will have to decide
between a mono-gear or nose-wheel Europa, and would like to find out if
flying the mono-gear is that much more difficult as compared to the
nose-wheel. I also would like to get some idea of how a nose-wheel Europa
compares to f.i. Cessna's 152/172 in terms of handling it in take-off and
landings.
All information that you can provide to help me in my decision-making
process is highly appreciated!
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
06:48
Message 2
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| Subject: | Mode S transponders |
At 2008-08-23 06:56 +0100 nigel charles wrote:
>
>>For me the big attraction would be to be able to display traffic. Do
>you happen to know if the Trig TT31 has a data output for traffic that
>can me interfaced into Garmin 430's or compatible device ?<
>
>I have no knowledge on this. Best to contact Trig direct.
Nigel - here's a quote from one of Trig's excellently-produced PDFs
(brochure, user manual, installation guide - all available for free
download on their website):
"The TT31 will support Traffic Information Service (TIS) functions,
where available, by interfacing to an appropriate cockpit display.
ADS-B and TIS functions will be made available as a software-only
field upgrade."
Hope this helps.
regards
Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 3
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| Subject: | No Slipper Clutch? |
Hi,
I ordered my 912S for the Classic FWF from Rotec which are the
authorized DISTRIBUTOR for Canada. They changed the originally installed
HD started to the normal starter and said it would be just fine.
Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, NS
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of europaman
Sent: Fri 8/22/2008 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: No Slipper Clutch?
All,
The reason I asked is this. I felt I needed it to protect my engine in
the event of a prop strike, God forbid. So in talking to Lockwood they
quoted me a price, told me how to get it off etc, never mentioning any
downside to it, even though I said I could not fit the HD starter. A few
days later, speaking to the same guy, to get the shipping address, he
said if I did not put the HD starter on too, starting would be very
difficult and advised against it. This is impossible with the classic
FWF. This was after I already had the gearbox off and boxed up to ship.
I am seeking advise from the folks that know, you guys. I prefer the
classic cowling for many reasons, mainly the money and time invested,
it's painted, and I want to fly!!!! I may go ahead and send it in a few
days depending on what I learn. Thanks for the helping hands, or wings,
to get me into the air.
Troy Maynor
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 4
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| Subject: | No Slipper Clutch? |
IHMO don't fly a mono without a slipper clutch. To miquote the old
aviation saying, there are two types of mono pilots, those who have and
those who will !
Dave
G-CCGW
Message 5
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| Subject: | Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
Hi Marcel
I had a Europa share from 1999 to 2005. It was originally a mono, but due
to the fact that several pilots in our group were low houred, we converted
it to a trike, (in fact I think ours was one of the first customer trikes
flying).
It was certainly much easier to land and take off as a trike, but can still
be quite tricky until you have some experience - especially on bumpy grass
surfaces.
However, as Brian noted, the mono is better as a touring aircraft - slightly
faster, slightly less fuel consumption, and slightly lighter. But all these
"slightly's" add up.
After a few years without a Europa ( I restored and flew a Luscombe 8A by
way of a change), I have just bought another example - and chose the mono!
I certainly would not advise flying the mono without either a good amount of
tailwheel time, or preferably an extensive type conversion course with an
experienced *Europa experienced* flying instructor/coach.
All the best with your decision. Whichever you go for, the Europa is a
brilliant little aircraft to own and fly.
Dave
G-CCGW
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
First, many thanks to the numerous people who provided me with lots of valuable
information to my questions, both here on the forum as well as by sending me
direct emails.
The overall tone of the responses I received, seem to confirm my suspicion about
flying mono-wheels. I was pleasantly surprised about the responses I received
from a couple of 'mono-wheel-guys' who informed me about the Europa mono not
being the typical taildragger, having some quirks of it's own. In translated
the many advises into: 'be careful trying to tame this animal' and 'don't try
to fly a mono without extensive training from an instructor/pilot that has extensive
experience on type'.
Economical reasons (insurance/resale) and safety-reasons (higher level of required
skill to handle a mono-wheel safely in all situations as opposed to a tri-gear)
have lead to a decision: I will focus on a tri-gear from now on.
OK, this question has been answered, many more to answer in the next stage of compiling
the list of specs...
Again, thanks to you all!
Marcel
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 7
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| Subject: | Mode S transponders |
Hi Nigel,
I have replaced my GTX320 by a 328. In spite of being deeper, the 328
fits perfectly in the same place as the 320. Same panel cut out, too.
However, a 90 degree elbow antenna connector is required. Same panel cut
out, too.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
options for replacing my Garmin 320 transponder. The logical choice
would initially appear to be the Garmin 328. However having checked on
the specifications the 328 is too deep for the central avionics stack on
the Europa
Message 8
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| Subject: | Mode S transponders |
Thanks for all the inputs on transponder selection. I was surprised to
hear that it was possible to fit the Garmin 328as it is significantly
longer than a Garmin/Apollo SL40 radio which only just fits. I guess
the extra length must all be in the connector.
Having trawled the net for more info I have come to a similar
conclusion to Rowland. The points which I found to be significant were
as follows:
1. The Garmin 328 is a tight fit and is by far the heaviest and is
more limited in its capabilities
2. The Trig and the Filser are both much lighter with the Filser
including the encoder which saves even more weight and is simpler to
connect up.
3. The Filser is the cheapest of those available that fit in the
normal avionics stack.
4. The Filser offers a flip/flop type code selection like most radios.
5. The Garmin is the only one to offer dedicated number buttons for
entering codes. We use this way of inputting codes in our airliner
transponders and it is by far the easiest.
6. The power output is a little confusing. Most of them offer 250W
output from the set with an estimated 125W at the antenna. Some
manufacturers quote set power and others antenna power.
7. The Becker is significantly more expensive than the rest and seems
to offer no advantages to justify the extra price.
>From the above, on balance the Filser seems to be the most suitable
for my requirements.
Regards
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner
Sent: 23 August 2008 19:29
Subject: Europa-List: Mode S transponders
Hi Nigel,
I have replaced my GTX320 by a 328. In spite of being deeper, the 328
fits perfectly in the same place as the 320. Same panel cut out, too.
However, a 90 degree elbow antenna connector is required. Same panel
cut out, too.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
options for replacing my Garmin 320 transponder. The logical choice
would initially appear to be the Garmin 328. However having checked on
the specifications the 328 is too deep for the central avionics stack
on
the Europa
How safe is your email? - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/securemail
__________________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Mono or Tri-Gear, what to choose? |
Hi, i just thought i would add that even though there
is no mention in the build manual ,the trigears main gear can come in usefull shoud
you become entangled with pylon cables...
steve #573
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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